>Hitler shouldn't have invaded Russia because germany

>>2672422
>*december 1941

>>2672422
G4rmany shouldn't of invaded the USSR. Not Russia. Because he was ill equipped to do so, because Stalin made a treaty with him prior, and Stalin was giving Germany oil.

There was no logical reason for Hitler to splurge out at that moment. He just needed to time it correctly at least.

>>2672422
There is more to it than territorial gain. By pulling back Germany's supply lines were stretched while the USSR's were shortened. The USSR could have dug in at any time but it was to their advantage to transport valuable machinery to the interior, reliquish land unimportant to the war effort and only dig in where there is a strategic need to, like in front of Moscow.

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Germany lost because of the material advantage the Soviets held after the lend-lease. But Hitler and Stalin both planned to invade eachother, if Germany didnt do it first. They would have to face a huge Russian offensive in 1942. And by that time the Soviets would have re-armed properly

>>2672534
Would Germany not have won a defensive war with their full strength in 42

>>2672627
Germany was geared for an Offensive war, pluss all the technological gains they made in tank/anti-tank warfare wouldnt be there for the eventual Soviet attack. 5-6 Million soviet soldiers with tens of thousands of t34's vs a unprepared German army equiped with Light/medium tanks wouldnt go well

>>2672422
The "Russia can't be invaded meme" is one of the few things normies "know" about history.

Nevermind that Germany successfully invaded Russia in the previous world war.

>>2672422
>stunning success until about december 1943.
German soldiers were on full retreat by december 1943. What are you smoking?

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>>2672422
I'm pretty sure Russians would lynch you irl for saying it was winter that stopped Germany lel.

>>2672422
>stunning success
>their advances failed the operational objective
hmm

>>2673191
Not really
>muh holy motherland protecting us from invaders
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4kQG_BvhYw

>>2672422
It's the same winter meme as Napoleon, who was in full retreat before winter started. It's just blame shifting so they don't have to admit they got rekt. Their propagandized version became the standard version we know in the west.

>>2672422
>stunning success until about december 1943.
They were forced back and then stalled out unable to advance into Russia in any meaningful way. How the fuck do you spin that as a success? Let alone a "stunning" success? What strategic objectives were secured? Obviously it wasn't anything that would have helped them win the war. They bit off more than they could chew with Russia, they didn't have the manpower to hold it.

>>2673191

It does piss me off, desu. If you invaded, say, Indonesia, and got struck with -40 C weather, then you could reasonably attribute your defeat to freak climactic circumstances. But it's no secret that Russia gets pretty cold, and the winters of '41 and '42 were not exceptionally so. The Germans knew what to expect, and should have prepared for it.

If a general had decided to invade the UK, marched all the way to the Channel, and suddenly said, "Oh fuck, what is all this water doing here?", you would not call him a great general who was defeat by Admiral Water. You would call him an idiot for not preparing a fleet. I don't see why Germans should be let of the hook for invading Russia and not bothering to bring a fucking hat.

>>2673318
One of the reasons the Germans could not prep for winter warfare was the presence of Russian observers in the field with German units near the Russian borders. The Germans and Russians had signed a non-aggression pact and one of the conditions was the exchange of observers. Had the Germans begun preparing for winter conditions in june these observers would have known something was up and reported it.

One of them use to sneak samples out of German military vehicle radiators and test it for anti-freeze.

The whole point was to go to war with Russia. It was a crusade against Communism. Hitler made numerous overtures of peace to the autistic anglos but the Brits and Americans couldn't keep their dicks in their pants.

>>2672422
Hitler Napoleon and NATO don't want you to think the Russians deserve any merit for military victories.

You have to realize that Hitler was not some rational thinker. He and his entire movement were based on the destruction of Communism and the colonization of European Russia even if this brought him into an almost unwinnable war and wasted resources in exterminating civilian populations.

>>2672422
>had stunning success until about december 1943.

>>2673572
and he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those lousy anglos and their american dogs

>>2673342
>break the end of war agreement multiple times
>take over half of europe replacing government in order to have it emulate your ideals
>"hey guys, why not have a treaty???"
Clearly those autistic anglos were just being silly billies

>>2673572
>civilians

OY VEY YES GOYIM CIVILIANS

>>2672534
>Germany lost because of the material advantage the Soviets held after the lend-lease
Which is of course why they lost the initiative in theater when only about 15% of that lend-lease had been delivered.

> But Hitler and Stalin both planned to invade eachother, if Germany didnt do it first.
Except, of course, there's no evidence that Stalin was planning on invading Germany at all. And that Stalin, unlike Hitler, was a very pragmatic sort, who would not invade people until he had diplomatically isolated them and was in a position of overwhelming strength.

1. "Stumbling Colossus" by David Glantz.
2. "Wages of Destruction" by Adam Tooze.

The above should be mandatory reading for anyone talking about the Eastern Front.

Winter mud absolutely fucked the Soviet "roads" (more like dirt trails). Soviet railways were a different width than most of Europe so Germans could only use Soviet trains on them. Or course the Soviets did a really good job of blowing up any train that might have been captured. You can obviously work around supply problems for a while but if you can't supply your offensive well it's guaranteed to fail.

Germany lost because it set itself upon an impossible objective and overstretched itself to ridiculousness in the process. Hitler wanted to push all the way to the Urals. No army on Earth could have taken him there.

>hitler invaded russia because russia was about to invade germany

What is with THIS meme?

>>2673973

A Russian """historian""" advanced that thesis in a couple of books, most famously Icebreaker. It caught on with the Hitler-did-nothing-wrong crowd because it confirmed their ideological biases.