Can we have discussion on cultural racism? Why modern west fails

>>2671912
>some cultures are simply incompatible with its set of values, beliefs and ideals
that's wrong though

>>2671916
How so?

>>2671912
>Why modern west fails to acknowledge, that some cultures are simply incompatible with its set of values, beliefs and ideals?

And what exactly are western values, beliefs, and ideals? If you say democracy and free speech, then you are surely mistaken.

>>2671916
Vunderbar!

Let's have all the folks from San Francisco pack up and live in Saudi Arabia

Or better yet, send everyone from Mogadishu to Sweden

>>2671916
You're deluded if you think Islam is compatible.

>>2671943
You're deluded if you think that culture is not a construct that can be easily changed and in the end does not really matter.

This is obviously a /pol/ thread, but I'll bite. I would assume you're talking in particular about Islam, and the majority of Muslims integrate pretty well. I'll admit that the idea that you can just accept a million refugees from a vastly different culture and have no consequences seems pretty ridiculous.

>>2671916
I hope you're able to live long enough to experience dhimmi status.

>>2671954
The problem is that refugees do not come to a country because they want to, but because they don't want to stay in the country they came from. When immigrants want to go and become a part of a country, then they assimilate far more easily.

>>2671926
Nigga, democracy is literally a greek word and free speech is too unless you're from a cuck nation

>Individualism
>Rule of Law
>The Scientific Method
>Inner guilt for wrongdoing
>Christianity with a base in Classical philosophy

>>2671947
>Culture can be easily changed

Go rape your mother and eat a dog then. Super easy.

I'm sure the residents of the south side of Chicago would get along swimmingly with the people of Martha's Vineyard

>>2671912
I think that it is fair to say that there is certainly initial contradictions in the meeting of two distinct systems.

However, I think that it is untrue to say that contradictions are not worked through and those who think otherwise tend to hold an implicit premise:

(i): It is wrong for value y to win over value x in cultural discourse.

This would not be a problem if holders of this belief could either justify, or prove the assertion, but the fact of the matter is that it remains an implicit assumption and undefended at that.

To say that certain values are incompatible is to say that it is incompatible so far as a certain feature I like about a culture will be lost in the exchange.
This tries to invalidate or ignore any sort of product that comes from the dissolving of one idea into another.

>>2671912
>cultural racism
i agree about cultures not being compatible

but /people/ mean race, ethnicity and skin color when they say culture - that's also incompatible with the modern west

>>2671971
>>2671980
You're an imnense retard I hope you know that.

>>2672103
>democracy is bad
>lets exchange it for something far worse!

>>2671966
>When immigrants want to go and become a part of a country, then they assimilate far more easily.


Lol that's complete bull. Much more factors then that. Big one is how the difference in wealth works out.

>>2672103
do you know what an ad hominem is?

>>2671916
Go to the pre-European Oceania thread and read the excerpts on the Maoris. Come back and tell me that culture is compatible.

>>2671971
>Individualism
>western

No, fuck off. Individualism is an ANGLO value, not western. Germany or Scandinavia are still pretty damn collectivist.

>>2671971
The scientific method and rule of law are relatively recent though

>>2672373
>Germany
>collectivist
Only post-WW2 Cuckmany

>>2672382
Individualism is the cuckery, actually the highest form of cuckery because in its pure form you completely disregard racial and national allegiances. Read Spengler.

Anglos shouldn't really be considered western, white or even human.

>>2672386
/pol/ please, keep it civil or fuck off

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>>2672386
>implying race is real
>implying a man owes anthing to his race
>implying serving an intangible ideal before yourself isn't the highest form of cuckery

Spooky

>>2672386
Indeed, Anglos are posthuman

>>2672391
>if you hate Anglos you must be /pol/

>>2672400
You may hate whoever you want, but stop posting their retarded memes.

>>2672386
>2017
>falling for the "everything is doomed" reactionary Spengler meme

>>2672403
I din't post a single "meme" kid. Fuck off.

>>2672412
>Spengler
>reactionary
doubt.jpg

>>2672417
t. /pol/ish memester

>>2672427
t. nonsensical shitposter

>>2672405
>european values don't exist lmao
nice

>>2672438

I debunked that post so I'm wondering what you mean by Western values. Russia, Norway, Italy, the UK, and Spain are very different places to each other with different values. iirc Russia doesn't even label itself as Western sometimes and antagonizes the west despite the fact pol likes Russia

>>2672453
>Italy, the UK, and Spain are very different places to each other with different values.

>>2672453
There are more similarities than differences though. And that's because their cultures were raised form judeo-christian, and greco-roman roots.

>>2672453
>despite the fact pol like Russia
I'm sure Putin is losing sleep over what /pol/ thinks

>>2672466
>judeo-christian
No such thing. The term is literally a zionist dogwhistle and nothing more.

>>2672470
Then call it christian then, you know exactly what I mean.

>>2672466

There are definitely differences, the drinking age, for example, in Italy for beer according to Google search is 16, while in the US it is 21. What would you describe as Western values?

American style caste system is odd. Black and white Americans have basically the same culture, the same politics, and the same ideologies, and they define themselves by the few differences, most of them only perceived, not representative of anything real.

American culture seems to be incompatible with resolving the strict caste system that it has developed. /pol/yanna can argue over whether this is a good or bad thing.

>>2672492
America doesn't have a caste system.

>>2672034
What do you mean by worked through ?

Culture is not homogeneous in any nation.
Contradictions can just remain as society divides itself in different groups. It is actually the normal process, and it takes a really long time for a dominant cultural trait to erase its opposition.
In France for example, even though catholicism lost a lot of influence, of followers, and of aggressiveness, conservative Christians are still a significant part of the population. And some of them are royalists...

Value (republic), after 225 years, still has not won a complete victory.

So whether value y wins over value x is not the right question.

The question is first, as you said, what value should be dominant, and secondly, how is the conflict with the contradicting ones going.

And I don't understand what lets you say that valuey > valuex is left implicit and undefended. It is not rare at all to hear people saying "we should protect our values" and explaining why they are superior to other people's.

Relativism is a common mental disease, but those who pretend to suffer from it ? They are few.

>>2672501

Not a formal caste system, no.

>>2672485
Wow, such meaningful and impactful cultural difference there mate!
>What would you describe as Western values?
Freedom of religion for example.

>>2672103
>imnense
>n
I was not going to criticize you about spelling. However, because of your ad hominem without any substantial counter-argument, I will need to call it out and note the irony.

>>2672642
You can be vital part of society regardless or race or ethnicity, under proper conditions.
If you really believes in racism, you're just useful idiot.

>>2672663
>If you really believe in diversity you're just a useful idiot.

>>2672667
Diversity under proper conditions is a great thing, look at OPs picture.

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>>2671916

>>2671912
I think the problem is that we are too far down the rabbithole (unreversible immigration) to back down, and it serves the ruling class as well. Backing down now would imply the illegitimacy of people living here (creating tension) and of past decisions (loss in trust in politics). Also elements like guilt from ww2 and colonialism and emancipations of different minorities plays a roll.

>>2672684
>serves the ruling class as well
How exactly?

>>2672672
>under good conditions
That basically never happens though, and you can simulate the same effects without the need for opposing cultures living together. And even moreso, OP's pick is a bad example because black peoples cultures got erased, which isn't comparable to muslim immigration in Europe.

>>2672694
Divide and conquer, derailment from economic issues (see US with Trump), but mostly cheap labor (the reason Western Europe has so many Turks and North Africans was literally labour immigrants who decided to stay.)

>>2672698
Black American culture and people were heavily hated and derided though.

They were even segregated lol because of the rhetoric of that time period in America

>>2672477
Immense differences between them and their Christianity

>>2672492
Completely wrong anon in nearly every way.

>same culture
Asides from you making the huge mistake that all white Americans share the same culture you do know the cultural origins of the two groups are completely different. Only White southerners have parts that they share but that's due to close contact in the early days

> the same politics
Blacks couldn't even participate in politics let alone vote for a pretty long time. White Americans have a very wide choice in which party they favourm blacks are heavily Democrats.

>the same ideologies
Pretty vague like what ideologies?

>they define themselves by the few differences, most of them only perceived, not representative of anything real.

There's a lot of differences anon if you just decide to actually read up on it.

America doesn't have a caste system. do you even know what that is?

>>2672790
Yes true ofc, but that was just a scapegoat fir racism and/or about superficial and/or minor differences, such as music food and art. Blacks were converted to christianity, drilled in the same set of political institutions (albeit with less trust/rights in them), and through church and education had similar ideas how family and society function.

>>2672363
Hey, they signed a treaty, couldn't have been that savage.

>>2672860
>Blacks were converted to christianity

black churches are pretty damn different vs White churches (said white churches covers a wide sect spectrum vs Blacks which are just protestant majority with some muslims). For example Blacks had the teaching of Christ taught to them from their owners you want to see the effects of that.

The Black family has always been unstable historically due to social factors. Education was denied form them and even when they did get it it was always immensely neglected by the government and of poor quality to work with to develop the population.

>Drilled in the same set of political institutions (albeit with less trust/rights in them)

They couldn't even use them for many cases and government back then and now still try to gate them out of the voting process.

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>>2671947
>islam
>easily changed

>>2672870
>Casually eat children for the taste
Yeah let's let them keep that culture going in our borders

>>2671947
Fucking Marxist, of course you just want to throw away culture to suit your vain desires. Culture cannot be played with like you would so hope

>>2672394
>Believing in memes just because some fucking loser from 150 years ago wrote about them in a book
Spook

>>2674166
>just because
>not realizing he was right
>not realizing Stirner never gives an ought
>not realizing adopting egoism enhances the ego
It's like you don't know what the word spook means mate

>>2671954
>majority integrate
Only the minority integrates, the majority just forms islamic enclaves while slowly increasing their numbers.

>>2674191
>doesn't understand what egoism means and how to apply it
retard alert

>>2671947
>He's going for the denial of biology route
Races. Are. Different. Breeds.

>>2674269
> Guyz the world is just like the RPGs I spend all day playing

>>2671943
Their are ass tons of reasonably secular muslims living in western countries and causing no problems whatsoever

>>2672672
HAHAHAHA. HUMANS ARE INHERENTLY TRIBALISTIC. READ A HISTORY BOOK FAG

>>2672417
>Kid
Opinion fucking disregarded
Stop being such a cunt

It's funny how /pol/ always trumpets about "superior western civilization" while rejecting everything that actually makes it superior.

>>2673666
>Islam
>culture

>>2675508
Elaborate? Are you hinting at egalitarianism?

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>>2671947
>culture
>easily changed

>>2674269
Mainstream geneticists say that's bunk. But I'm sure your poorly sourced jpgs from Nazi Internet forums are more accurate.

>>2677067
Carrot and stick.

>>2677118
And yet anthropologists and forensics can differentiate between one race and another. GJ,GE
Political correctness BTFO!

>west fails to acknowledge that some cultures are incompatible with its culture
Well by definition, if you're making a difference between the west culture and whatever culture you're talking about, you're already stating an incompatibility at some point, because otherwise they'd be the same thing and thus called the same. This is an oxymoron.

Now what OP actually wanted to say (but didn't to make it sound pc) is
>why does the west fail to acknowledge some races are incompatible with its culture

It's kind of ironic funny how the right accuses the left of relativism all the time, but somehow cultures are "incompatible". It suggests a pretty extreme relativism to think that values are rooted in cultures rather than individuals. It really kind of devalues your own values to think that had you been born in a different time or place nothing that matters to you now would matter then and there.

To answer your question, if people acknowledged that cultures - which is to say, groups of people - simply have incompatible values, beliefs, and ideals, then they'd be acknowledging the arbitrariness of own values, beliefs, and ideals. If people recognized the arbitrariness of their own values, beliefs, and ideals, then they would not be incompatible - they would simply adapt to whatever is around them, because it doesn't matter anyway.

If you assert the greatness of so-called western values - freedom, democracy, christianity, etc but don't think they're universally valuable, it's just superficial LARPing.

It appears the right is as nihilist as the relativist left but doesn't realize it.

>>2672459
Spain and Italy may be alike, true, but they aren't culturally alike to the Unite Kingdom, not by any stretch of imagination.

>>2677309
In which world? They cannot distinguish races the way you mean them.

>>2671912
>Why modern west fails to acknowledge, that some cultures are simply incompatible with its set of values, beliefs and ideals?
The irony is that people who say this are usually conservatives/traditionalists talking about Muslims pushing Sharia Law, but their ideas are actually quite similar.

>>2672382
Germany was collectivist even before WWI. It's why you have Karl Marx and most other socialist/communist philosophers coming from Germany. Why Germany was able to adopt the collectivist ideology of National Socialism. Why the socialist movements in Germany were so powerful even before that point.

>>2675943
Liberalism, secularism, freedom of thought speech and expression.

Not that guy.

>>2677917
Conservative Christians won't bake you a faggot cake

Conservative Muslims kill little girls for getting raped

>>2671912
Because liberals have abandoned western principles and culture.

Traditional western values are too stern for today's liberal culture

>>2674265
Oh really? Where did I go wrong then?

>>2678221
Pol is literally against none of those. Half of pol is straight up libertarian.

>>2671971
So Greece is "Western" but a boat ride away and you're now in the "East" which is supposedly incompatible their close neighbors because dumb Anglos want to pretend they have history.

>>2671916
Retard alert

>>2674221
I would actually like to see figures on this, at least for the UK.

I've many Muslim friends with varying degrees of devotion but at the same time my hometown was a stones throwaway from Luton, a city with an insular Muslim community and many social problems.

Are you sure there are more Muslims in enclave communities than integrated? And even then, what is the marker for integration?

>>2671912
Let's say that /pol/ is right and whites are superior. Even if they all disapeared what's stopping the same process from happening again to other ethnicity from necessity and natural selection or whatever?

Why do retard leftards here pretend the average white person didn't lived a poor life with almost no education justa century ago?

>>2674290
Seconded

There is a very large Bosnian-Muslim population living in Saint Louis who dont make their religion a problem. A majority of the women do not even wear hijabs

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>>2671916
>I believe everyone wants to be like me

>>2681148
>And even then, what is the marker for integration?
If you're a britfag then you probably have seen this channel4 documentary

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/what-british-muslims-really-think

Are you larping and pretending that support for sharia, opposition to human rights like LGBT and the likes are not basic "markers" of incompatibility with the West? And before you start saying "those are the first generations", no it's not, ironically enough it's the 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants kids who do a U-turn and turn increasingly radical.

>>2671912
Probably a mix of arrogance and the belief that people are naturally good at heart. It's a neo-White Man's Burden situation.

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>>2671947
>post-modernist faggotry
>dude it's all a construct and it doesn't matter, therefore I can dismiss it completely based on arbitrary assumptions and look cool to my hip intellectual friends

>>2671947
>that can be easily changed
then why hasn't it be done yet faggot?

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>>2675514
>religion isn't culture

>>2678234
>Conservative Muslims kill little girls for getting raped
What's wrong with this?

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>>2677362

>that values are rooted in cultures rather than individuals

Cultures propagate and instill values on people who fall under that culture's influence. A person is not born with values. A person acquires values through experience and it just so happens that social cultures have a pretty big impact on that.

> It really kind of devalues your own values to think that had you been born in a different time or place nothing that matters to you now would matter then and there

Not really. One can recognize that they'd be a different person had they gone through a different experience. This is the social equivalent of looking at history with a modern lense and making judgments. If I grew up in the 50's in the same place (same culture) I'd have a different core set of values. Maybe they're worse, maybe they're better. Recognizing the fact that cultural values change, vary by region, and are dependent on many factors does not negate the values I have now.

> If people recognized the arbitrariness of their own values, beliefs, and ideals, then they would not be incompatible - they would simply adapt to whatever is around them, because it doesn't matter anyway.
>b-b-but it doesnt matter!!!

Yeah, sure. You say this like an individual's values don't ever change. I can both understand why and how a person has a certain set of values while simultaneously considering those values inferior to whatever I believe in. These are not mutually exclusive things.

>i wanna go eat mexican
>i wanna eat italian
>oh i guess u should realize ur preference for mexican is arbitrary n worthless

>but don't think they're universally valuable

But I do think that. I'm not convinced the effort to instill those values on others by force is worth it. So let them believe what they want, but prevent those beliefs from spreading in my country.