Since the majority of people are not good people, why do socialists,

>Since the majority of people are not good people, why do socialists, communists, social democrats and the like enjoy pretending their ideology is moral?

Well, it's all about the common people and shiet. Same with conservatives, they just want to protect the poor guy working 8hrs+ a day in a construction site, making sure his children can get basic education and his sick wife can go to a hospital without paying 10k for a broken leg.
>Even (moderate) critics like Milton Friedman seem to treat the left as though they are well meaning but misguided.
Lots of people act condescent to their opponents, Anon.

File: IMG_4657.jpg (170KB, 700x931px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 700x931px

>>2660625
Well put anon. I wish more people had your perslective. I hate that a lot of leftists ideologies seem to be the default state of humans.

>>2660634
I think its more about leaving people alone and helping out just the people who really need it, but trying to lift them put of hadd times, not just making hadd times easier with social nets.

Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.

>>2660625

Easy short answer: moderates also are scared of leftists because for the most part they're satisfied with how things are. Leftism calls for acknowledged social change and class upheaval, which is scary. Personally, it sounds to me like you're talking about SJW liberals, not actual leftists who'd advocate for the sweeping social change you're talking about. Real leftists aren't wishing death on poor people because they disagree, they're basically just trying to get to a mutually beneficial state. I clearly disagree with your views on most things here but do recognize what you're seeing and talking about.

>>2660625
I can't speak for the more authoritarian and central left positions, but anarcho-communists reject the notion of human nature being good, bad, or of any fixed property really. Kropotkin argued that human societies only functioned by virtue of mutual aid (read: altruism) and that removing the pressure of rampant inequality, state oppression and having to fear for fulfillment of your basic needs also removes the incentive to commit crime, have others work for you and contribute nothing yourself, and being a detriment to society in general.

In my opinion, there is a complicated relationship between a economic and political system and the people in it. If you'd just change the rules to a perfect ancom society tomorrow night, it would collapse within days considering the behavior of people today who are used to capitalism, social market economies etc.
It takes a gradual evolutionary progression to a system without inequality an oppression. The new system requires a new man, and the new man requires the new system.

>>2660676
>Kropotkin argued that human societies only functioned by virtue of mutual aid (read: altruism)
...before the advent of agriculture and sedentary societies. Somehow forgot to write that down.

>>2660625
>why do leftists enjoy pretending their ideology is moral?
If they didnt think their own ideology is moral they wouldnt have that ideology. Its about different points of view, everyone thinks their own ideology is the only right one.

>>2660625
>Since the majority of people are not good people
This post immediately went to shit. Do you have any way of actually proving that most people aren't "good"? What does being a good person actually entail in your eyes?

Even if most people aren't "good", that doesn't make them bad. Assuming all or the majority of people are bad is just as idiotic as assuming they're all good and deserve help.

People are individuals, you can't assume how every one of us is going to behave.

>>2660634
The left views it as an ends not a means, they want everything to be placed under collective decision making while conservatives ideally want people to be able to look after themselves. Not that conservatives aren't guilty of some of the things I've mentioned, I guess they appeal to God rather than utopia.

>>2660635
This could be due to Rousseau's claim that people are naturally good thus eliminating the need for people to question their own nature and go against it.

>>2660654
You don't need leftists to furnish positive social change, in fact they don't really help.

An outwardly reasonable mainstream social democrat will be adamant that billions in administrative waste is a necessary sacrifice to keep all their dubious regulations and spending intact. That won't change.

A real leftist believes it is proletariats versus capitalists with all the problems that arise from that. "SJW liberals" have a similar perspective that seems to be based on this. A baying mob making up excuses to tear shit up is nothing new, it is a mystery to me why they believe it is anything more.

Mutualist anarchist syndicalists and whatnot who claim their utopia will balance individual rights with equality are a minority, while they opine over moral philosophy in an imaginary world that will never come to be the other groups are causing problems in the real world.

>>2660676
>>2660942
The incentive to harm others is material gain and sometimes emotional gain, it is innate. A baby would press a button genociding humanity for a candy. You'd have to embue the baby with morals and shit before it would do otherwise. Capitalism, government and markets are just methods that emerged that allow people to cooperate enmass on something, it is alright to question these things but I don't think Kropotkin really addressed the ins and outs of them or had any real answers if he believed in the primitive communism meme.

>>2660942
>People are individuals, you can't assume how every one of us is going to behave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
There are a few genuine good people out there but statistically speaking most people would screw you over if they had the opportunity.