Can we talk about pre-colonial Cascadian/Alaskan civilization?

>>2660462
>history

That's because they didn't write anything down. Hardly anyone's fault but their own tbqh.

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There was some fascinating stuff about them in the Native American museum in Manhattan. One of the underrated attractions I ended up just wandering into by accident while I was over there.

>>2660471
Hello holden caufield

There were never really that many of them.

Even today since they live in buttfuck nowhere their villages tend to be like three to five dozen people

One interesting thing about the Pacific Northwest Indians was that while they didn't practice agriculture, but their hunting-gathering harvested enough food for them to be sedentary.

I've never heard of that in another culture.

>>2660473
What?

>>2660546
Don't feel bad, it's not a reference worth getting.

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>>2660527

Then in the second half of the 21st century we began to dam up all their rivers, effectively ending 25,000 years of tradition.

Fun fact, Celilo Falls was knocked down to make way for a dam that we don't even use anymore.

>>2660565
It's like white people weren't even trying to be likable

>>2660462
I wish more of their stuff survived. Sadly a lot was made of wood and the exampled that survived are pretty beautiful. Idk these people remind me of the ainu or siberians. I wonder if they had contact.

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>>2661227
>Idk these people remind me of the ainu or siberians. I wonder if they had contact.

The Pacific Northwest lies on a warm ocean current from Japan, and even when the first Europeans were settling the area there were records of Japanese ships being washed ashore. Some tribes also claim to have made contact with Japanese sailors before European contact was established. There are also certain cultural similarities in things like grave markers which are only shared between Japan and the Pacific Northwest.

>>2660565
>25,000 years of tradition
>Natives Americans came to North America 12,000 years ago
What did he mean by this?

>>2661227
wow man it's almost like there was a land bridge from siberia that allowed the first people to reach America wouldn't that be wild

>>2660565
>second half of the 21st century

>>2661309
Not that guy, but I dont' have a problem with the number. The Clovis first model hasn't been taken seriously for a long time. Now the prevailing wisdom is that settlement in the PNW happened through the use of boats as people were following marine resources along the coast. There's still no clear date for when this started; this is partially because f the difficulty that comes with finding coastal sites that old, and partially because settlement didn't happen all at once. Either way, the date keeps getting pushed back, and most archaeologists are now pretty fine with dates between 20-25 thousand years ago.

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Anyone here read The Adventures and Sufferings of John R. Jewitt : Captive of Maquinna?

>On 22 March 1803, the day before the Boston intended to set sail, many Nootka came aboard to trade and were given dinner. At a signal, the Nootka attacked, and all but two of the white men were killed. Jewitt suffered a serious head injury but his life was saved by Maquinna, who saw how useful it would be to have an armourer to repair weapons. (One other man—the Boston's sailmaker, John Thompson—was in hiding until the next day, when Jewitt pretended to be his son and begged Maquinna to spare his "father".) Maquinna asked Jewitt if he would be his slave and Jewitt assented under duress, as the alternative was immediate death (p. 31). This was the beginning of his three years among the Nootka.

I've just started it myself, but apparently he becomes quite successful within the tribe, and even ends up marrying the daughter of another chief. The descriptions of slavery are actually quite noble (he's fed the same food as the chief, and the first night he's imprisoned by king Maquinna, he sleeps in the same bed as Maquinna's children so he won't be murdered in the night by the other people of the tribe. It almost reminds me of the slavery of the ancient Greeks, where the slaves are treated as part of the house hold.

An interesting story to say the least.

>>2660469
I'm pretty sure it was the infernal Anglo's fault for trying to completely scrub their language and culture from existence with residential schools, actually.

>>2660462

I specialized in Russian Alaska in grad school, ask away /his/

>>2661392
Give us a quick rundown on russian policy against the natives

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>https://archived.moe/his/thread/2351666/

Anyone want to talk about treaty discussion? Just a few years ago the local tribe in my town ratified treaties with the provincial government to reclaim land rights to a nearby island as well as some other benefits.

The actual legal disputes going on right now are usually ignored by both sides of the political spectrum, but they're extremely interesting. If British Columbia can actually set up a legal basis of legitimacy with the various native tribes here, it would mean that rather than being merely a 200 year old part of Canada, that on paper we'd be heirs to a 3,000 + year old civilization.

Of course there's still a long way to go, but the efforts at cultural revitalization and legal reconciliation that are happening are really interesting to watch. Some groups still completely reject the authority of the Canadian government over their land, and there's dozens of languages right now which scholars are fighting hard to preserve from extinction. Many treaties are being written and re-written right now, and how it all ends up could be anyone's guess.

For a country like Canada especially, which doesn't have much history to it, this has the possibility (if the cause is taken with bravado) to completely change the national character of my province.

>>2661495
I'm all for this. First Nations have the potential to be awesome, and need a little help back on their feet with community work.

>>2661378
>blaming Anglo on your own failings
That why you'll never leave the trailer park, red deer.

>>2661495
>>2661504
Oh the arrogance is never ending.

You invaded and topple their way of life, completely mitigating native threat to colonial expansion. Segregated them to tiny areas of their own.

And now you want to 'make them awesome lololololol' with community services!

A pox on all modern white people. You're all so cursed it makes me scream.

https://youtu.be/GNi__fnadTM

>>2660462
>civilization

culture =/= civilization

>>2661527
>You
But that's wrong you dense fuck.

Those two Anons did none of the first thing. Don't mistake their ancestors for them. You don't have to condone the things your ancestors did.

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>>2661527
I think you're missing the point.

I'm saying the government should work with the different tribes here as actual political actors and separate nations. In our Parliament for example, not one single tribe is represented or has a seat at the table. Not one.

A while back, during the pipeline fiasco, a group, I believe the Unist'ot'en although I might be mistaken, suggested that the government give them the right to call in the military in order to prevent encroachment of their land by companies.

This was rejected by the government, but why? If chiefs were given the right to call in the military to protect them, that not only legitimizes the chiefs and tribe, it also legitimizes the military. If the treaties and reconciliation of our province wasn't so consistently half assed, it could completely turn our national consciousness on it's head. Lots of Latino countries (Mexico particularly comes to mind) embrace their pre-colonial heritage as a source of national identity, but in the US and Canada we continue to push a sort of English dominated multiculturalism, which suffocates any organic culture from developing.

Also a lot of the art forms that are unique to the pacific northwest, ceder hats, totem poles, potlatches aren't (as >>2661531 seems to stupidly think) the culture of one particular tribe, they're a kind of art that dominates the entire region (even today) as a kind of supracultural institution, a unique civilization that can be shared by everyone here. There's no reason for anyone living in the Pacific Northwest not to embrace this.

Finally, unless something is done to preserve the languages here, they will die. I'm among the people who believe that each language has a cultural logic and way of existing in the world woven inside it, so by losing these languages we lose a completely organic connection with the region, a wealth of philosophy, and a way of conceiving existence. It's a shame we aren't putting more effort into preserving them.

>>2661526
Shut up slave.

>>2661631
>>2661631
Watching them simper around talking about how cool the natives could be and how Canada could now glom on to a '3,000 year old culture' if only they could get them back on their feet hahaha with some community work makes me fucking puke.

It makes me sick to my stomach.

There was NO 3,0000 year old culture in the first place lol.

And you're a nerd.

>>2661663
>There was NO 3,0000 year old culture in the first place lol.
Well of course not, there likely wasn't human habitation 30,000 years ago.

You should calm down.

>>2661645
>In our Parliament for example, not one single tribe is represented or has a seat at the table. Not one.

Because you subjugated them you loony Canadian asshole. But now you're feeling some crazy white guilt and want to help them become awesome.

You're the only problem they have ever had. You want to see the biggest barrier that they have?

Go into your bathroom and stare into the mirror until you see it.

And what, you have a fucking cedar hat fetish now??? You want them making cedar hats????

AND HOW ABOUT INSTEAD OF MAKING THEM LEARN AN OLD DEAD LANGUAGE YOU TEACH THEM C++ OR MANDARIN YOU STUPID FUCKING ASSHOLE

>>2661682
>it would mean that rather than being merely a 200 year old part of Canada, that on paper we'd be heirs to a 3,000 + year old civilization.

From crazy canuck anon further up.

>>2661340
>settlement in the PNW happened through the use of boats as people were following marine resources along the coast

oh sure, this is fine but mention the Solutrean hypothesis and everyone loses their fucking minds.

>the difficulty that comes with finding coastal sites that old

That's cause they would all be underwater.

>>2661504
How much help do they need? Because so far it's been an endless stream of gimmedats with no real discernible benefit. Every rez I've been on has been an underdeveloped backwards trashland full of wrecked cars and trailer homes. The only nice places were the grounds of the casinos.

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>>2661694
You are the most awful person i've seen on this board since it was started. You are a disgrace to cultural individuality and intellectualism and you should be ground down into fertiliser.

>>2661645
>>2661495
Fellow British Columbian here, I talked about this with you in a thread here a few months ago. You seem pretty passionate about this, why don't write our local government or start a party or something?

>>2661750
Stop having native fetishes fruitcake.

It's not okay

>>2661761
The Co-opt and Steal Native Culture Party?

Where every Canadian family has their own totem pole and cedar hats are the national headgear?

>>2661694
I'm not sure what angle you're trying to get at here. Yes we are aware that the British toppled their society, but nobody is talking about white guilt or SJW shit, we are just discussing the possibility of legitimizing and attempting to restore a culture that we don't want to see lost

>>2661745
that's because the solutrean hypothesis is bullshit anon

>>2661790
You don't understand the basis of it and so your opinion is worthless.

>>2661783
>legitimizing and attempting to restore a culture

Are you bored and is your life so fruitless that you have to look to the natives for something interesting and meaningful?

>>2661790

it's not though, very plausible.

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>>2661694
First of all, I'm not >>2661504.

Secondly I'm a first generation immigrant to BC. I grew up here, but my family never subjugated anybody. My ancestors were Amish, which is honestly a lot less interesting than the culture that still exists here, so I'm not trying to claim any cultural superiority either. It's a very normal sentiment to idolize the past, and I prefer the history of the area I actually grew up in and live in to a bunch of stoically uptight farmers with strong moral and religious convictions I don't even agree with.

>And what, you have a fucking cedar hat fetish now??? You want them making cedar hats????
Since we're anonymous, I'm going to go ahead and state that I feel like a lot of you guys have internalized some sort of self loathing from the English pricks that dominate our country. Don't take that out on me.
The cedar hats here are an art form, and I don't see how it's fetishistic to admire them. Do you like origami? The weaving in some hats make origami folds look like horse shit. It's incredibly impressive to take strips of cedar and turn them into an elegant hat that fits cozily and doesn't have any ends sticking out. I'd like to see that art form make a come back, because it's not only beautiful, but it's unique to this little part of the world we both presumably live in. I don't think we should have "them" making cedar hats, but I do think there wouldn't be any harm in teaching kids how to weave hats instead of how to dance hip hop or quote Orwell or all the other gay shit I was forced to learn in school.

>AND HOW ABOUT INSTEAD OF MAKING THEM LEARN AN OLD DEAD LANGUAGE YOU TEACH THEM C++ OR MANDARIN YOU STUPID FUCKING ASSHOLE
Because I actually believe there's an inherent value to language. I also think people should make an effort to lean Latin and ancient Greek. Not because it's "useful" or "practical" or any of the other spooks that haunt Canada's national consciousness, but because languages allow the soul to conceive reality.

>>2661806
Yep.

A boring white fucker with a native fetish. I knew it

>>2661806
>Amish
Sumas?

>>2661694
>Because you subjugated them you loony Canadian asshole. But now you're feeling some crazy white guilt and want to help them become awesome.
So what do you suggest instead? Fucking ignoring them more till they've completely disappeared? Just because bad stuff happened in the past doesn't mean it should be repeated in the future. If we actually give these tribes recognition as equal political actors to the various communities and political parties here, that would be a huge step towards decolonization and national legitimacy, not "crazy white guilt".

>>2660462
Peope only care about white civilizations so gtfo

>>2661834
If they want to be a part of our government, they can get elected like everyone else.

>>2661504
>>2661527
I'm sorry, but it appears you completely misunderstood me. Admittedly, I said it in a crude and simplistic way, but I am by all means on your side.

Though....I would like to point out that pot-stirrers like ATCR accomplish nothing.

>>2661745
>oh sure, this is fine but mention the Solutrean hypothesis and everyone loses their fucking minds.
The Solutrean hypothesis has absolutely no evidence for it. It's mostly based on superficial similarities between two kinds of artifacts used thousands of years apart and in very different locations. If you know anything about lithic analysis, Stanford's arguments seem really stupid. More pre-Clovis artifacts being found since the 1970s, and recent genetic studies, have made it seem even more ridiculous. There's a reason it's never been taken seriously.

The Solutrean hypothesis also has absolutely no relation to what I was talking about. Not even in the ideological way you seem to be implying. There was a ton of resistance to the idea before the evidence eventually became too overwhelming for most of the archeological community to accept.

>That's cause they would all be underwater.
No all of them but yes, that's part of what I was getting at. Good job for pointing out the obvious.

>>2661834
>tribes recognition as equal political actors

So are you going to carve Canada into hundreds of tribes or are you going to force the natives to submit to your Federal parliamentary representative democracy under a constitutional monarchy?

You can't have both.

>>2661663
Everything you just said in that paragraph was wrong in some way.

Chill dude.

>>2661750
Dang. Roasted.

>>2661817
Better than being a soulless bitter racist without an ounce of national pride.

I bet you have a picture of Queen Elizabeth on your wall too.

>>2661761
Since you mention it, the Cascadia party is running candidates this election. I plan to vote for them myself, but mostly I'm interested in the cultural undercurrents going on all around us. As a province, and hell, a country, we're searching for some form of identity. Bioregionalism and the anti-colonial efforts of some tribes here strike me as crucial in forming that identity.

>people actually responding to solutrean hypothesis trolls
Has Reddit taken over this board? That is the oldest bait on /his/ next to kangz trolling.

>>2661894
Only a damn fool would see native tribalism as superior to or more desirable tham Amish culture.

Enjoy that

>>2661895
I don't know what happened. All I did was say "Yep, natives are awesome. We should work with them to restore their communities and try and heal our screwed up relationship", and the whole thread exploded. It's not like I was patronizing or over-glorifying them.

>>2661919
>First nations could be AWESOME with a little help from the white man haha im such a good person

Seriously crucify yourself

>>2660462
nature god art

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>>2661865
>absolutely no evidence for it
wrong
>superficial similarities
what other similarities are you looking for? Should they be more sincere?
>thousands of years apart and in very different locations
that's the point, it's strange.
>recent genetic studies
lol source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis#Genetic_research
>Solutrean hypothesis also has absolutely no relation to what I was talking about
you specifically mentioned people settling the Americas by boat traveling the coastlines BEFORE the waves of immigration from Siberia, which is what the Solutrean hypothesis suggests. You were just talking about the Pacific, whereas I raised the Atlantic.

>>2661919
/his/ is full of butthurt autists and revisionists who will argue over anything. Don't take it personally.

>>2660462
They have Japanese material influence and arguable cultural influence. Boats with dead people drifted to the coasts and metal was often on board for trade spurring new material cultures before Europeans arrived

There may even be chance one or a few survived and weren't outright killed or made into a slave.

There is connection to Ainu and PNW design as well.

>>2661929
>he actually fell for the solutrean meme
lol

>>2661952
>how to telegraph the fact that you've been completely btfo

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>>2661868
>So are you going to carve Canada into hundreds of tribes or are you going to force the natives to submit to your Federal parliamentary representative democracy under a constitutional monarchy?

Canada is already carved into hundreds of tribes, which are recognized by the Canadian government by legally ratified treaties. It wouldn't be a big deal to give those tribes the right to elect an MLA, and reserve a seat in parliament for them.

Going off wikipedia, it looks like there's about ten tribal councils in British Columbia. Giving each of them the right to elect an MLA to represent them in Parliament isn't going to break our democracy. It does give them some basic respect the ability to fight for their interests as a political bloc, as well as legitimizes our own Canadian government as a continuation of the various governmental and social organizations that existed before British colonialism. This seems like a win-win to me.

>>2661963
>a solutrean believer thinks he blew anyone out
>when his own link to a wikipedia page shows how garbage his argument is
lol

>>2661965
No.

You're de-legitimizing representive democracy in favor of tribalism hierarchy.

You can't just do that shit. You have to have one form of government, not some kind of wacky apartheid of one way for them and on for us but we're all equal.

Statesmanship isn't your thing, clearly. Stick to cedar hats.

>>2661948
Slaves could actually end up becoming influential actors within the tribe, and their children would be born within the tribe as free men. See >>2661378. If any Japanese sailors did survive (extremely likely), it's not at all unbelievable that they could end up having some limited influence on the groups that they came across.

>>2661965
>reserve a seat

So they immediately get through the electoral process because they're First Nations. Get fucked, this is Canada, we have a system and they can play by the same rules as everyone else.

>>2661963
>he thinks typing "wrong" is BTFOing anyone but his own sexual partner status

learn how to argue anon desu, and maybe people will try to take you seriously. or just le epik 2017 troll. your choice.

>>2661981
>If any Japanese sailors did survive (extremely likely)
>(extremely likely)
>(just making shit up lol)

Stop pretending your fantasies are not fantasies

>>2661929
>wrong
No, there really isn't.
>>2661929
>what other similarities are you looking for? Should they be more sincere?
Again, if you know anything about lithic analysis, Stanford's points look really silly. His main argument is that both cultures produced leaf-shaped bifaces. That's pretty meaningless, because almost every culture on the planet has made tools that look like that (even early Acheulean tools follow that same basic shape). It's a really easy way to make a bifacial tool. And claiming similarities between both tool types ends up overlooking some major differences, like the fluting on Clovis points that ends up defining American lithic technology during the Paleoindian period.

So yeah, it's an incredibly superficial similarity, and drawing such bold conclusions from a really common trait is a huge leap in logic.

>lol source
Did you read that whole section? Most of it is arguing about how genetic evidence doesn't show a Solutrean connection. Most notably, genetic tests of remains associated with Clovis artifacts show connections to Siberian populations.

>people settling the Americas by boat traveling the coastlines BEFORE the waves of immigration from Siberia
There's a big difference between accepting evidence that people used boats to engage in trips we already know are possible (because of Inuit hunters), and from a location we know they came from, just earlier, and arguing for a major paradigm shift in how the Americas were settled based on nothing.

>>2661977
>solutrean truther
kys simpleton

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WE WUZ NA GGUUUYYYSS

GOTTTA BELIEVE ME KIKE/GAIJIN WE WUUUUUZZS

WE CAHOHKIA NAO MO FOGGIN PYRAMINDS N SHHHHEEIITTTTT

>mfw mormons tried this argument 150 years ago and everyone laughed at them then

society truly has decayed

>>2661926

Calm.Down

I worded it stupidly, but I actually care about your people's struggles because I live in an area where the damage colonialism caused is very clear. Can we just put my autistic use of the word awesome aside and go back to this threads original topic?

>>2661993
>there is no evidence
>no look
>LEARN HOW TO ARGUE DESU DESU

>>2661991
>>2661980
Counting different first nations groups as their own electoral districts isn't going to destroy or invalidate Canadian democracy you tard. The city of Victoria has something like six fucking districts alone, why not give a federally recognized NATION with a similar population a foot at the table?

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>>2662028
>cuntpasting wikipedia links (that have rebuttals to my own points) is an argument by my standards
>wonders why everyone else disregards him

>>2662018
>solutrean truther
who are you quoting

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>>2662002
WE WUZ JAPANESE FISHERMEN N' SHEEIIT

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>>2662026
When your people stop doing this kind of shit we can be friends again.

Fucking.... white people!

>>2662035
Because Canada isn't an Empire with different governing systems in place ya schmuck.

You want to put them with their seat at the fukken table?

Great I say, fine. Make them Canadian citizens and tax them.

Then they get equal votes. Until then frig off Randy.

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>>2662050

>>2660462
>>2661504
> MFW I'm OP
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jVjgY427qW8>>2660462

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>>2662064
>Because Canada isn't an Empire

Technically you could make a strong case that we are. We've got multiple nations united under the banner of a single King or Queen. Just because we consider ourselves a dominion (of a defunct empire), doesn't mean that we aren't one step away from being an Empire ourselves.

The >Holy >Canadian >Empire. Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

>>2662116
Holy cow mobiles having a seizure today

>>2662125
If you want natives to be able to vote in Canda make them citizens.

You have a decent system. Use it.

>>2662147
They can vote dumbass.

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>>2662013
>Stanford's points

His particular position is not the end all be all dogmatic and authoritatively overriding position you seem to think it is to people arguing for the the main thrust of the theory you know, which is the fact that movement was possible by boat between America and Europe 20,000 BC at the wane of the LGM.

>really easy way to make a bifacial tool

There is no "easy" way to make bifacial stone tools. I'll bet you'll never be able to make anything but mono-facial tools you anthropleb.

>the fluting on Clovis points that ends up defining American lithic technology during the Paleoindian period

I was under the impression that the Clovis culture died out more than 10,000 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture#Disappearance_of_Clovis.

>connections to Siberian populations

No shit. Funnily enough, those ancient Siberian populations were somehow unrelated to modern East-Asians, rather being more closely related to Europeans.

I also think it's funny how archeologists take finding a SINGLE body next to some stone points as an immediate refutation of the entire hypothesis. No legitimate scientists have such a low standard.

>>2662036
>greentexts

>>2662184
Lol then what problem are you trying to solve?

>>2661469

Russians had a very different understanding of race and conquest than English descended people did. So while the English generally segregated or tried to wipe out Native Americans, the Russians often intermarried with them and tried to incorporate them into the colonial society. The Russian efforts to do this via Orthodox Christianity were particularly effective.

This went all the way back to conquest of Siberia and the Russian Far East, where even today you can still see a lot of mix blooded people and a large incorporation of natives into Russian live. They simply applied the same principles to the colonization of Alaska. The whole situation is frankly very similar to how the French treated Native Americans in Quebec and upper Canada

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>>2662050
>>2662069

>>2660546
he's talking in the main character of the catcher in the rye

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>>2661782
>cedar hats are the national headgear?

Would this really be a bad thing though? That would be aesthetic as fuck.

>people un-ironically defending solutrean hypothesis as the first peopling of north america

what is the Mt. Verde site in Chile

>>2660527
I grew up in W WA and had native studies in elementary school. I remember some mention that once or twice a year (Spring/Autumn) the Chehalis tribe would walk over White Pass and trade / intermarry with the Yakima tribe. Two very different ecosystems. Shells from the coast, huckleberries from the eastern slopes of the mountains.

>>2662026
>I actually care about your people's struggles

Now, now lets hold off a bit. Until he >>2661926
>>2662050 provides proof, I'm assuming he isn't first nation and is just a troll.

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Chinook Jargon was a lingua franca widely used on the Northwest Coast by American traders (“Boston men”), British traders ("King George men"), laborers, miners, fishermen, loggers, and many Indian tribes. Borrowings into Tlingit from English and Chinook Jargon occurred contemporaneously until the early 20th century. Native English speakers would have some command of Chinook Jargon when immigrating from other places in the Northwest, and as a consequence would tend towards using it rather than English with monolingual Tlingit speakers. Oral history confirms that many Tlingit speakers in the late 19th and early 20th century were also fluent in Chinook Jargon, some even with native proficiency.

Because the two languages coexisted, it is often difficult to tell whether a particular borrowing is taken directly from English into Tlingit, or instead whether it was imported through the intermediary of Chinook Jargon. Chinook Jargon phonology is much closer to Tlingit phonology than is English, and as such a direct borrowing from English into Tlingit is likely to closely resemble a borrowing from English into Chinook Jargon. Thus, a number of Tlingit nouns which are commonly assumed to be of English origin are more likely indirect imports through Chinook Jargon. A prime example is dáana “money, dollar, silver”, which superficially is similar to its English counterpart, but in fact has a semantic range that resonates with the Chinook Jargon dala “money, dollar, silver coin”. This relationship can be clearly seen in the Tlingit compound wakhdáana “eye glasses” (lit. “eye silver”) which is cognate with the Chinook Jargon dala siyawes “eye glasses” (lit. “silver eye”).

>>2661495
>>2661504
>>2661645
>>2661806
>>2661834
This actually makes me seriously consider the idea of "nation building/" in contemporary North America. Say you live in Cascadia or California and consider it to be somewhat of a nation in its own right. That's all well and good but how do you go about this "nation building" with the first nations? The way I see it you are left with two equally terrible options.

1. Consider them to be a part of the "nation" and risk further cultural erosion and the probability that their heritage is dissolved by integration with the wider culture. Not to mention there is the "Why the hell should we ever consider ourselves to be the same nation as you assholes and lend fealty to a state that has been nothing but harmful to us" issue.

2. Consider them entities separate from whatever "nation" you are trying to build and risk further alienating them in a de-facto apartheid system. Also possibly leaving their culture to shrivel up as they slowly loose members and connections to the past, especially since most reservations are on shitty land and away from the areas o prosperity. It also sets a precedent for ignoring them and their issues.

I honestly wouldn't know how to deal with that issue. Doesn't help that they are such a low proportion of the population which severely hinder their influence and negotiating power.
On a side note. I think this conversation would be suited well for /int/ if you guys want to make another thread there. Don't know if it would be about regionalism or First Nations relations, but either would be good. If you want to keep it about the west coast/Cascadia then they should be getting off work soon so now would be a good time.

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>>2663144
I think we're actually going about it in a pretty decent way, with the negotiation of treaties going down across British Columbia.

It's really a matter of basic respect. First Nations people should have the same land rights as everyone else, which means respecting treaties and land claims.

Personally I think the way forward is in grand gestures. Things like giving them the right to call in the military to protect their land claims, like I mentioned earlier, seems completely fair. So is giving them seats in our Parliament. There's no reason Victoria should have six ridings in the Parliament while groups that we legally recognize as sovereign nations don't have a single representative. All statesmanship requires some degree of courtship, so instead of, like you said, a de-facto apartheid system, the government would have to make an effort to actually reconcile with the different tribes and woo them over.

Culturally, I feel like chinook jargon as >>2663002 mentioned is a good precedent for how Cascadia could project soft geopolitical and cultural power and develop itself as a nation. Chinook developed as a way for lots of people from different languages to communicate with each other. Similarly every tribe has its own culture, which it would be rude to appropriate, but between the different tribes there's enough clear overlap to be called an overarching civilization in itself. A lot of things like totem poles, bigfoot, and potlucks have already completely entrenched themselves in the public (un)consciousness. A good nation building project would encourage these things.

Finally I'd like to some high speed train lines. If we could have one stretching from, say, Silicon Valley to the northern tip of Vancouver Island, that would naturally unite the different people along the coast, as well as further interweave our economy.

Unfortunately a huge minority of Canadians are racist dickheads who hate the idea of treaty other people with basic dignity and respect.

>>2663635
The point of projecting soft power being that it allows the West coast to have more say in its affairs and national affairs (even international affairs, considering the cascadian region crosses US-Canadian borders), rather than being ordered around by the East coast, as has generally been the case.

>>2663635
You're a racist.

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>>2662233
You're parroting blogspots that are wrong in themselves. It's a trainwreck. Enjoy being disregarded for having no arguments other than "IBET U COULDNT DO IT SCRUUBB"

>>2661782
>muh cultural appropriation reee
i hope you're not wearing any western clothes or eating western foods right now, chief.

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>>2663649
The cascadian race is the strongest race in the world

>>2663671
>*a wild Harold Covington appears*
>*blocks your path*

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>>2663680
>*teleports behind you*

>>2663635
You want them to be able to call in the military to settle what should be legal disputes? What the fuck

>>2663635
I definitely agree on the "basic respect" policy. Part of me has considered that the best way of going about reconciliation is to encourage a populace which is aware and sympathetic to the needs of the tribes. Because in large part nation's are essentially large groups of people who share experiences and can operate as one unit. Allowing first Nations and and the wider government to act as a team rather than disconnected and dispassionate legal structures would go a long way towards that.

Also you seem to know a lot about this kind of thing so I will be a little more straight with you. I'm actually a Californian who wants to pursue a stronger sense of nationhood in the same way a lot of Cascadians are. I'm wondering if the types of initiatives you mentioned in reference to Cascadia can be transferred and reapplied down here. I can theoretically imagine adding seats for native tribes in the state legislature but I also assume that the cultural landscape both with natives and wider trends may be very different from the north's making things a little murkier. Not to mention we'd also be dealing with a much more distinct Hispanic cultural influence an whatever the hell Hollywood and silicon valley are supposed to be.

>>2663722
When logging, mining, etc. companies actively trespass on their land, try to build pipelines through it, and blatantly disregard the justified land claims of nations within Canada, they should absolutely have the right to call in the military. Hopefully it won't ever come to that, but giving them the right to do so is a very clear sign of respect. If Cascadia is going to become a strong and independent nation, it has to be done through strong mutual respect, so we can stand united as a people with common interests and goals.

>>2663856
dude, you're delusional. cascadia won't become its own separate nation, and the military should never be a glorified police agency.

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>>2663904

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>>2663917
Wew lad irl terrorist proganda

>>2660527
there was THAT much salmon

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Is there anything more to the Haida people than a badass flag?

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>>2666406
Apparently they were a lot like vikings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haida_people

>>2662019
Watashitachi wuz nihonjin to kuso

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I've got a book on this subject, if anyone's interested I'll be happy to post excerpts

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>>2667573

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>>2667575

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>>2667577

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>>2667580

>>2667573
>>2667575
I'm a sucker for woodworking. Any chance you could post those?

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>>2661694
I am canadian and I would just like to say that I wish death upon everyone of those savages.

>>2668344
Oh would you look at that, a Canadian being an edgy faggot. How surprising.

>>2668344
This. Holy shit what a waste of money.

>>2661694
>MANDARIN
Hello Huang Lao Jiang, do you like your new life in Vancouver?

>>2668344
>>2668650
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that these baiters are Albertan.

I'm convinced that province is filled with nothing but people who don't realize /his/ memes are just memes.

>>2661817
Should people just not give a fuck at all about who was here before?

>>2668867
Maybe indians will start getting treated like canadians when the government stops giving them such massive bennies.

>>2669105
Yes.

>>2661817
im a british guy and after reading your comments im glad you got genocided

what a prick

pac northwest , really the last frontier desu

>>2661527
>>2661527

>>2660527
Gobekli Tepe was built by hunter gatherers
So was Poverty Point
I believe that isn't really that uncommon

>>2660462
>Cascadia
bye rddit

>>2669852
>Everything I don't like is Reddit.
Also they talk about Cascadia all the time on /int/

>>2661817
Kill yourself my man

t. Native American

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>>2667685
Here you go, sorry for the wait.
Some notes however, their woodworking is imo unparalleled in the world. The cedar textiles in this thread for example, are all harvested from live trees without actually killing the tree itself, and is incredibly durable and flexible.
The iron, I'm convinced, comes from Japanese sailors.

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>>2671545

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>>2671547

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>>2671554

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>>2671556

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>>2671560

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>>2671563

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>>2671567

>>2661526
Remember when ur country made their religion illegal for 100 years? Youre a lying faggot

>>2661929
You wuz native n sheit

These guys had so much wealth from their ecosystem they created the Potlatch to show off who had the most disposable income

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>>2671545
>>2671547
>>2671554
>>2671556
>>2671560
>>2671563
>>2671567
>>2671572
Thanks mate. This is petty fucking neato.

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>>2671545
>The source of iron, which was not smelted on the North Pacific Coast, is something of a mystery...