Greece: >Birthplace of democracy and philosophy Italy: >Roman

Climate doesn't have much to do with a given society's development. It's all about genetics, and the Greeks pretty much hit the jackpot with theirs.

>>2660213
There were Phoenician and Greek colonies there, tho.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Spanish_inventions_and_discoveries

>>2660229
t. /his/

Spain gave the world Cervantes. Portugal gave the world Fernando Pessoa.

>>2660233
>it's a liberal doesn't want to admit the different races are a result of evolution episode

>>2660213
>despite their similar climate?
I will kill thee a hundred and fifty ways

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>>2660229
>. It's all about genetics, and the Greeks pretty much hit the jackpot with theirs.

GREEKS WERE THE GERMANS OF THE ANCIENT WORLD

Only under Hellenism do we attribute greatness to them, Hellenism was the accumulation of the Middle Eastern world's technology and progress.

>>2660242
Have you won in life with your blessed genes?

What about the sea people?

>>2660255
What about them?

>>2660258
The sea people?

>>2660261
Yeah, what about them?

>>2660213
They're at the end of the Med and once Rome had them Spain was just an agricultural backwater.

this, Empires are stagnant.
>>2660265

>>2660213
Spain was the first global superpower. They've contributed culturally like any other nation in Europe though.

>>2660254
Better than most, I'd say.

Many Romans of importance were from Hispania.

>>2660213
>Why didn't Spain/Portugal contribute anything to the world in their early history despite their similar climate?
Lack of population and not close enough to the cultural/civilisation centers of the ancient world which were all concentraed in the eastern mediterrain.

>>2660253

>(You)

>>2660213
Are you retarded? Portugal discovered the route from Europe to India alongside the african coast and Spain produced some of the best works of writing of all time.

>>2660213
I think it has alot to do with the fact that Greece and Italy were closer to the first civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt

>>2660544
>>2660582
>early history
Learn to read retards

>>2660605
>the first civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt

WE

>>2660229
>It's all about genetics, and the Greeks pretty much hit the jackpot with theirs

The "Greeks" as you call them only developed into the great civilization of antiquity after the Indo migrations from the east. Native Greeks were sub-saharan Africa tier just hanging out on mountains and getting stoned.

>>2660213
Climate has nothing to do with it, both Greece and Rome where the hubs and centers of trade, whereas Spain and Portugal were on the brinks. Once technology made possible that Iberian peninsula could be a trade hub, the power shifted there.

>>2660268
The Dutch were the first global superpower.

>>2660213
They began contributing more once they were civilized again by the Moors.

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They lack the master race West Asian genes from the Copper Age.

>>2660213
Nigga we invented tha muthauckin gladius hispaniensis
U be sayin we dindu shiet but we wuz celts n iberinas n shiet

>>2660609
Good god /pol/ you can't even get your own memes right.

>>2660615
sauce or elaboration? are you talking about dorian invasion? id like to learn

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Spain was the birthplace of despotism and incompetence

>>2660867
He's talking out of his ass. Greece had the Minoan civilization before the steppe niggers invaded. The Mynaceans learned everything from them. Same thing for Italy, they had the Nuragics and Etruscans.

>>2660268
>>2660707
The Portuguese were the first global superpower.

>>2660869
>Spain
>Not ancient Egypt

>>2660237
Camoes is Portuguese Homer as well

>>2660213
>similar climate
You know, Greece is mostly Csa and Italy is divided between Csa and Cfa.
Portugal on the other hand is Csa in the south and Csb in the north. Spain is split between Cfb and BSk, with Cfb in the north.
They're really not that close climate wise.

>>2660213
Atlantis was in Spain.

>>2660950
atlantis was probably sardinia

>>2661037
>sardinia
No such thing

>>2661037
>Atlanteans turned into sardines
IT FITS

Italy basically ripped everything off of Greece

Distance from major centres of trade and ideas

>>2661037
Atlantis was in the atlantic ocean. It had elephants and the city was planned in a circular style.

>>2660237
>Spain gave the world Cervantes
Ah yes, the Soul Edge wielding pirate.

>>2660213
>Why didn't Spain/Portugal contribute anything to the world in their early history despite their similar climate?

Kabbalah, goy

>>2660213
Many great Roman statesmen/philosophers came from Hispania, like Seneca the Elder. Even before that the Barcid dynasty was from the peninsula. What period are you referring to when you say 'early history'?

>>2660544
>The netherlands being part of the Spanish empire in 1640

You're not even trying

>>2660544
>Coastugal

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>>2661260

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>>2660213
Not that 'early', but we can thank Spain for the shape of the modern state, loosely. Ferdinand 2 and Isabella united the monarchy, centralised government, and spread a highly competent bureaucracy all across the country, arguably better than anywhere else in Europe at the time. They grabbed good taxes and mustered a standing army

>>2663396
kek

>>2660213
>using modern country names rather than Roman names
Iberia achieved little because by the time they were conquered there was not enough urbanisation to create city states. IIRC you only had stone buildings when they had built directly into the rock, not mining it and then binding it together like the Greeks did

>>2662953
>he doesn't know what the Spanish and Austrian Netherlands are
Wobblychin.jpg

>>2660582
He means classical Greece and Ancient Rome, so pre fall of the Empire, when the Iberians were still celts

>>2660707
Portugal had the first colonial empire, but the conquest of the Aztec empire made them temporarily the only super power
Then Charles V (Carlos I) empire was a world power, shame he broke it up

>>2664781
*conquest of the Aztec empire made Spain temporarily the only super power

>>2660213
>why didn't Portugal, a nation without access to the Mediterranean and direct trade therein from, and Spain, a nation where a majority of it's landmass has no connection to the Mediterranean, contribute alongside these Mediterranean countries early history?

>>2660229
ikibey?

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>>2664764
Lel what? Iberia was heavily urbanised and brick and stone buildings were everywhere, heck, they build near everything with rocks, they were in constant warfare with themselves and the Celt-iberians too. There was an ancient trade with Phoenicians, North Africa, Gaul and Britain too, they specially deal with Casitherite or the tin ore than was specially important in ancient times. They only interactuated with some Greeks colonies in Rhodes or as mercenaries. Also they had different alphabeths (and we have writings in them, but we can't translate the iberian languages), and the Tartessian or they cultural descendants, the Turdetanians were quite wealthy.

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>>2664929
What's more peculiar is how every village or town/little city was very fortified (like holy shit it's a bit exagerated), even with moats and sevel meters high stone walls and there are less than thirty houses). They were built in strategic or easy to fortify places. Also lots of Spanish cities of today are build over ancient Roman ruins, than were iberian towns before that.

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>>2664976
Even the shittiest village of hill billies had a wall with towers. If there were ones without they didn't last very long it seems.

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>>2664992
About the Population of cities, they could be very big, but not as big as the great metropolis of the mediterranean. The Iberians were a very fragmented people than had wars even with they own tribes (sagunto for example had lots of problems with the Rest of Edetani related to Iron tarifs if I recall well).

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>>2664999
If any of you is interested, here a cross section of a wall.

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>>2665032
Another one just for kicks.

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Another thing I can say is than they were in those times shitty painters. It seems the artist got high in shrooms before painting or something.

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>>2665106
Normally they painted tipical floral, geometrical forms and the like, but other times they decide to paint animals.

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>>2665128
They loved wolfs btw.

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>>2665135
They were relationed with the dead and the gods.

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>>2665137
I specially like thise one. Probably a mercenary than fought in Africa and painted things he had seen in there when he retired and got a comfy artisan job with his earnings.

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>>2665140
Birds were another big animal in the art. Some times they painted mythological beings too.

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>>2665151
Angel like beigns are specially common.

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>>2665163
The Celt-Iberians of the interior tough, sucked even more at that, specially at humans.

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>>2665168
Some weird animals/Mythological beings from the interior. I bet the only well paid artisans were the weapon makers and the statuet makers.

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>>2665175
Those things were plentiful, probably charms or sacrifices for the gods. You can apreciate the fertility ones in the background. Also it seems the ideal of beauty for young iberians was to be slender with wide backs and a thin waist, fatties were uknown or totally reviled because you can't find any.

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>>2665192
Some bronze animals too.

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>>2665208
But where the ancient Hispanics splashed they money were in weapons. Even the most backwards and uncultured savages of the north would use beautifull weapons, decorated with gold, silver or copper filigree.

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>>2665223
The iberians destroyed they weapons when they entombed they dead, twisting, burning... Even then you can apreciate even after a few milleniums than they were made with care.

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>>2665240
Even in the most rusted piece really, they loved they weapons.

>>2660213
Because during Ancient Greek and Roman times, Spain and Portugal were filled with barbaric Celts and Phoenicians

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>>2665248
There were a lot of different swords/poignards in the Iberian paeninsula, from very small and wide to long and slender.

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>>2660213
>Greece:
>Birthplace of democracy and philosophy
Can this joke stop? Democracy and philosophy was not born in Greece. They just wrote their shit down and we got lucky enough that the Romans made us their cultural Waifus , didn't destroyed us completely and helped making sure that all the texts were copied over and over again and we have some of them today.I say these things but I still respect what the Hellenes did and find it fascinating.
TL:DR
Greece is not the birthplace of democracy and philosophy , and that being said by a Greek pleb.
P.S Check em

>>2660213
Cordoba

>>2660213
Just i wanna know why english people are so retarded in history.

>>2660213
Greeks were nothing special
Hellenism only spread because some barbarian roughly related to Greeks conquered Persia

>>2660895
To be fair, Minoans and Myceans were HUGELY influenced by the "Orient".

>>2660615
...What indomigrations anon?I have only heard of the Dorians and they got GREEK'D pretty fast
Too bad we don't GREEK anyone anymore.Could be fun.

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>>2666177
Were there other examples of functioning/implemented democracy outside of Greece?
Also nice dubs