History of Ukraine thread. Even today, the "free steppe"

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Also not invited: the sultan.

>>2656179
when and why did a divide between Belarus and Ukraine happen?
I get that Russia and Ukraine are different because Ukraine was a Polish Lithuanian polity while Russia was a Golden Horde polity, but what about Belarus? were they ever considered "the same" and when did the distinction begin?

>>2656179
So why doesn't the two very different parts of Ukraine divide?

>>2656229
>giving Russia warm water ports
Nobody wants to do that.

>giving up half your country
Nobody wants to do that either.

>become a landlocked country
Nobody wants to do that as well.

>>2656214
Poland owned the "Ukraine" part of the Ruthenian language, Lithuania owned the "Belarus" part.
So the division comes from how the Commonwealth administered its territory, and was later kept in the Soviet republics, and persists.

>>2656243
>Poland owned the "Ukraine" part of the Ruthenian language, Lithuania owned the "Belarus" part.

Of the Ruthenian language speaking people*, of course.

>>2656229
more than half of the Russian speaking part is ethnically Ukrainian so they identify themselves closer to Ukraine then Russia

>>2656251
The russian language speaking border also defines who votes for the pro-russian candidate, and who is anti-EU and anti-NATO. There is a clear divide.

Also, less clearly, it defines the border between the wealthier intellectuals and the working industrial parts of the country.

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Anybody know about Green Ukraine? (far east territory of Russia that temporarily declared independence during the revolution)

There seems to be very little information on the internet about this secessionist movement, how exactly did it end? did it have any military conflicts with the communist state?

>>2656243
But the ethnic russians in the area would want to become full Ruskies, right? So why not give it to them?

>>2656243
But if they are ethnic Russians they want to become part of Russia. Who cares if the minority group looses out.

>>2656310
Ukraine literally means borderland. Seeing as it's in the border with China and there's tons of steppes they called it the green borderlands (Green Ukraine).

>>2656310
Cossacks and jews were sent to colonize land that was bullied out of China. Some nationalist admiral ruled it during the civil war. Later it was added to the USSR and all jews were sent there.

Other than the war, it didn't fight, nor have any politics of its own. It wasn't centralized enough.

>>2656319
This. If the Crimeans voted to become part of Russia I'm sure most of the Russian area does. Its undemocratic to not give them a referendum. Fascist Europe is mostly to blame yes?

>>2656332
>>2656325
>>2656319
>>>>>>>>>>>>giving russia warm water ports
NO. Not allowed.

And it would make Ukraine into an even weaker state, with no ports, loses access to its river tradeways, loses half its land and people, loses all its industry... no.

You would give Russia a port to put its navy, and create the literally poorest weakest worst country in all of Europe in one swift motion.

>>2656336
Too bad. The Russian people want to live in Russia.

>>2656347
The russian people want the Warsaw pact restored, and renamed to "Russia". No.

>>2656351
not an argument. didn't know so many fascists came on /his/

>>2656360
"the russian people want" also isn't an argument
stop ruining the HISTORY OF UKRAINE thread with contemporary russian imperialism

>>2656347
The russians are a minority, but the population there speak mostly russian.

Have you seen any uprising there ? no.

only in the russian majority, crimea and a bit of donbass

>>2656327
The term actually means "land within borders", in Slavic "u" means "within" and "krai" means "border" or "land"
So it basically means heartland or country surrounded by our borders - aka their name for their country is country

Okraina would be the word to describe the borders of something, if Ukraine was literally called "the borderland" it would be called Okraine instead

>>2656336
In case of a war against NATO, Russia would still be fucked by the Bosphorus Strait anyway.

>>2656367
Are you playing stupid or are it genuine? RUSSIAN people live in Ukraine. They want NOTHING to do with the failing state and want to join the country of their people. Why would you ever in any case deny someone their homeland?

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>>2656437
This is a history of the Ukraine thread, not a /pol/ thread.
Mods please don't delete the whole thing, clean only the irrelevant comments.

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>>2656437

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>>2656179
Cossacks were a warrior class in eastern Poland, consisting mostly out of Ruthenians, followed by Poles and Lithuanians, but also Scots, Dutch and Russians (migrants in Poland).
Chmielnicki was a Polish noble (from his fathers side) and a hetman, he went to Ukraine*, Cossackified himself and became a rebel.
Many people that traveled to the Dzikie Pola (Wild Fields) were outcasts or bandits from all over the PLC running away form the law because that part of Poland was the least settled and patrolled due to constant Tatar raids.

Ukraina: U+kraina - U kresu krainy - U krańcu krainy Korony Królestwa Polskiego, Rzeczypospolitej Obojga Narodów.
Ukraine: At+borderland - At the borderland of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

>>2656456
We only have to abide by the 25 year rule. This isn't a recent thing you mong.

>>2656493
Cossacks were just basically anarchists, not a "warrior class".

>>2656571
>cossacks
>anarchists

in the same way that cowboys and samurais are anarchists I presume?

>>2656580
Samurai were just lords though, terrible comparison.
The cowboys did have a bit of anarchy in them, yeah, wild men sent into the uncharted territory to make a living, and often live outside any law enforcement.