>tfw you'll never live in the timeline where Dr. Sun

On the one hand, Sun Yat Sen really should have been President of china. He would have done a great job.

But on the other, I also like learning about the utter madness that was the Chinese Warlord Era. So I'm kinda conflicted on it.

Anyone know any good media about the warlord era tho? I want a better grasp of it than what I can learn on wikipedia, but I'm not spending money on a book unless I know it's good.

>>2643879
will give you a book list to look at. use bookzz or libgen to find

>>2643539
He was still pretty old and would have died by the end of WWII

>>2644110
He was born in 1866, so he was only 59 when he died. If he died in 1945, he would have been 79.

When will true China finally reclaim the mainland from the usurpers?

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>you live in a timeline where a constitutional monarchy China failed to arise and instead China came under one of the most disgusting government's that have existed in modern times

>ywn live in the timeline where Mao Zedong dies in the 60's and his deification causes a civil war upon the moment of his deaths, with the US-backed nationalists winning.

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>>2645576
Well, if the PRC is still subject to Chinese historical pattern (i.e. Dynasty would rule 250-400 years tops, then would topple) then perhaps a long time.

The only scenario the Nationalists in Taiwan can "reclaim" China is if PRC collapses into the traditional Multi-factional civil war between dynasties. But then they'll probably face other powers in China.

But the challenge for the nationalists right now is to survive Taiwan politics. Will they succeed, or will the gay-marrying, liberal, weeaboo otaku generation of faggots saying WE'RE NOT CHINA NO NO NO MUH INDEPENDENCE AND MANUFACTURED NATIONAL IDENTITY succeed? That's the question.

>you will never live in the timeline where the PRC willingly dissolves and invite the ROC government back to Nanjing, with the CCP becoming just another party in the ROC's multiparty democracy

>>2643539
How would Sun Yat Sen have handled the Japanese invasion of China and the communist insurgency? For all the shit everyone gives Chiang Kai Shek it's really hard to see how he could have done any better given the utter shitshow he had to try to deal with.

>>2645584
I never knew China was such a fucking mess

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Reminder that Chiang and the KMT are shit and the PRC is superior in every way.

>>2643539
>Dr. Sun doesn't die of cancer
>Chiang continues leading the military
>Warlords are dispatched by Chiang
>Commies run away and are removed by Chiang
>China is politically stable and a developing democracy
>Dr. Sun leads the government and the Emperor is reinstalled as a ceremonial head of state
>Japan holds off on anything new in China
>China grows economically and slowly begins modernizing
>Education and literacy increases and so does quality of life for many Chinese
>KMT military is trained by Nazis and wears those sexy sexy blue uniforms
I want to believe

>>2646358
why in this scenario would japan refrain from attacking china..?

>>2646738
I imagine Japan would hesitate trying anything new when China seems united and capable of resisting

>>2645581
Liu shauqi would have taken over easily.

>>2646883
I don't think you realize just how far behind Japan they were.

>>2645577
>people actually think qing tyranny is preferable to mandarin rule

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>one protest
>martial law until he fucking dies
Was Chiang autistic?

>>2646999
>mandarin rule mattering at all

Spotted the 50 cent shill MUH SLIGHTLY LIGHTER SHADE OF YELLOW PEOPLE SHUD RULE YELLOW PEOPLE

>>2646952
Japan had problem enough defeating the mess that was civil war China, don't see them doing anything but far worse against a unified China.

>>2647023
All I am saying is that people executing others for having the wrong hair cut should be kept far away from power

>>2647024
What, like in 1895?

>>2647060
I don't remember any large scale invasion of China 1895

>>2643539
>>2645577
>>2647051
I feel physical pain

>>2645577
Wanna know how i know you are not Chinese?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnXMbkGFkkU

>>2647126
He's posting on a Ukrainian soap opera board?

>>2647010
I have a sort of respect for the man in certain ways, but yes, I think he was.

>piece of evidence 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpHcaB4tQc

notice his behaviour in front of the camera, it's utterly spergy.

>piece of evidence 2

His general behaviour during the battle of Shanghai, and probably a lot of battles.

>threatens to kill an officer if he doesn't do exactly as he says
>officer doesn't do what he says and gets screeched at by Chiang
>Chiang and the officer would eventually make up again
>rinse and repeat

all in all, he probably was on the spectrum.

>>2647182
wow, you managed to post something with lower case letters

>>2645605
My guess would be that he'd just let Chiang do his thing as head of the NRA, while he himself would run the civilian government.

The handling of the Chinese communists would be interesting though, since we don't know if the communists would maintain good relationships with Sun, or if they would get cocky and turn on him.

>>2646358
>>2646738
Germany should have done more diplomatic work to get chinese nationalists and japs to work together.

>>2647126
Because he/she has access to this website?

>>2647480
Chinese can actually read and post, they just need a 4chan pass because the great firewall blocks Google's ReCAPTCHA.

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>>2643879
made the chart on the warlords

>>2647369
That video was cool as fuck Anon, thanks

>>2647365
>>2647480
>There are no Chinese diaspora on the internet
lel

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>>2646358
>China
>developing democracy

Not how it works.

A KMT-run Chinese constitutional monarchy of Puyi and Dr. Sun, with a Chiang-led and German-trained military would be boss. However, considering how things turned out, I'm apprehensive about such a regime not being corrupt as hell.
I wonder how this would affect Germany's relationship with Japan come the late 1930s...maybe Japan would pursue the Russian Far East or the South Pacific as targets of imperialism, instead of a German-backed China/Manchuria

>>2648632
Awesome, thanks for the list. How many of those have you read? Is Abortive Revolution worth checking out?

>>2649762
>a party fundamentally opposed to monarchy
>letting Puyi be their monarch

for what purpose

>>2646738
Japs are opportunistic shitbags

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>>2649866
I've only a fourth of China in War and Revolution, which is densely written but rewarding. i havent gotten back to it since sadly. as for abortive revolution, i think your best bet is searching for academic reviews and then using sci-hub.cc to access it so you can see if it is something that youd be interested in reading. btw i added more works but now the title is missing kek

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>Supporting Chiang over Punished Wang of the Left KMT

>>2650871
>Japanese officers trick Wang into thinking they're going to sign a white peace and retreat their troops if Wang defects
>Wang somehow doesn't question this
>he defects alongside some friends
>Japan doesn't honour their side of the deal, surprising no-one except Wang
>his friends defect back within the year, leaving Wang in charge of some shitty Japanese puppet government
>"a-at least I'm leader of the Chinese National Government now, s-screw you Chiang"

he might've been a decent politician, but him being in charge of China during the Sino-Japanese war would've been a disaster.

>>2643879
Terry and the pirates.

>>2645605
Dr. Sun is considered the father of modern China including the PRC. He was extremely popular and it would be hard to rise up against him. It was much easier to justify war against Chiang.

>>2649762
China is just corrupt. It's been their culture for thousands of years.

In America, you have the puritan work ethic, so the working class isn't corrupt, just the upper classes.

>>2645796
Didn't the KMT do all the fighting when the Japs invaded and the CCP just hid out committing crimes?

>>2652254
Not all of it, but most of it. And to be fair, the KMT was at the time something of a fragmentary organization. Most of the fighting wasn't done by the KMT men who were personally loyal to Chiang, those guys spent most of their time patrolling the border with the Communist territories; most of it was done by individual warlords whose territories bordered the Japanese holdings.

Does anyone have pics of China from WWII or the interwar period to share?

>>2652254
pretty much, actually. The CCP promised they'd do their part in 1936, but they spent most of their time sitting in literal caves preparing for the continuation of the civil war. The only notable things they did were the hundred regiments offensive and some guerilla warfare behind Jap lines.

>>2649957
t. white persons who imperialized more than half of the world's landmass

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>>2652310
I got some images of Chinks with swords if you like that

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>>2652324

>>2652324
Anything from that era will do, thank you.

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>>2652328

>>2652254
This is revisionism

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>>2652333

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>>2652340
and that's the swords done, I'll try to find some more images from the Battle of Shanghai and post those too

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>>2652341

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>>2652324
>>2652328
>>2652333
>>2652340
>>2652341
It's cool and it sure must have been intimating seeing them up close in real life with those Dadaos. But any officer worth its salt would have laughed about this pathetic attempt of bringing swords to a gunfight. If anything, it served probably more as a tool than anything, if even that. It's also a testament of how incompetent the Chinese military leadership was.

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>>2652366

>>2652375
I doubt Jap officers would laugh at it, considering they used their swords quite often too.

And these Dadaos were generally used by "big sword units" who were pretty much based on WW1 German stormtroopers, so they were kind of useful.

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>>2652376

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>>2652397

>>2652338
[citation needed]

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>>2652406

>>2652389
No man, I don't think so. Even the Japanese didn't use their swords "quite often" (unless you count the exactions against unarmed children and women).

Swords were already outdated as weapons by the late 19th century. Any charge made outside of a smoke screen, jungle, or night is suicide, period. The real storm-troopers used pistols, daggers and grenades. Granted, the Chinese probably didn't have enough pistols and grenades, but I can see a dagger or a small sword being 100% more practical than a freaking Dadao.

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>>2643539
Press B to bow down to Emperor Xongxian, the true leader of all under Heaven.

>>2652445
B

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>>2652445
B

>>2652445
>not K for Kow Tow
you fucked up. heaven is mad now

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They have a statue of him in Toronto. I'm not too sure why.

>>2652656
Now that I think of it its not far from one of the China towns.

>you will never live in a world where mao drowned in the river taking a bath

>>2652656
I thought the Asian colony was just a meme

>>2652375
Or maybe it's a testament of how lacking the Chinese were in regards of military equipment?

>>2653354
This, China really really was behind in industrialization.

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>>2652188
>people actually believe this

>>2647369
thank you based Mao for standardising Chinese

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>>2652375
>>2653354
>t's also a testament of how incompetent the Chinese military leadership was.
>Or maybe it's a testament of how lacking the Chinese were in regards of military equipment?
Neither. You know how Big-Sword units came to be?

Watching Europeans kill each other in WWI.

Chinese generals of the (soon to break-up) Chinese Republic were observers of both sides of the First World War. Of particular interest of them was infantry tactics, particularly battalions of trench raiders like stormtroopers of the Central powers who spearhead infantry attacks via infiltration and surprise attack tactics

You know how they did this? They ditched their bigass rifles back in the trench, and instead carried
>Sacks filled with grenades.
>Pistols, sawn off shotguns, carbines, and the first smgs.
>And oh yeah various melee weapons like knives, handheld bayonets, clubs, hatchets, maces, truncheons spiked with hobnails, and shovels.

When the Chinese generals came home fresh from WWI they started making their own infiltration and storm troopers. And one of the products of which were the "big sword units." Formally known as "Sword and Pistol units" for their propaganda-worthy weapons - the Dao and the Mauser broomhandle- they nonetheless carried other weapons like their WWI European counterparts, performed the same role: spearhead infantry assaults via infiltration and storm enemy trenches and positions. Except unlike their European counterparts, their melee weapons were traditional Chinese swords.

Hell some of the "big sword" men did not even carry anything but a sack filled with shitloads of grenades. Usually people who were good at throwing things got this unenviable job. Or child-soldiers.