>when you realize neither Romans nor Carthaginians won the

>>2641764
Jesus I know of Phyrric victories but the casualty imbalances are staggering. How is the battle of Cannae not a crushing, decisive victory?

>>2641798
because it didn't crush romans strategically

>>2641798
Because the Romans had an almost limitless source of manpower, while every casualty Hannibal took was another soldier he had to get over to Italy from North Africa.

>>2641809
But the numbers of the battle show that the Romans lost most of a huge army whilst the Carthaginian army was mostly unscathed. Did the Romans have a huge advantage in numbers?

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I know literally nothing about the Kingdom of Numidia. Give me a quick rundown on it.

>>2641822
post awoos

>>2641798
>How is the battle of Cannae not a crushing, decisive victory?

it was, and crippled the Romans for a decade. Hannibal was just overextended and couldn't capitalize.

>>2641824
Give me a rundown first.

>>2641822
There was never a single Numidian kingdom. It was populated by Berbers. They were generally a semi-nomadic lot who lived in what is now modern day Algeria, though they gradually became more and more sedentary over time. They were famed for their javelin cavalry and raiding. The Carthaginians and Romans both used them as powerful components of their respective armies. They were not incorporated into the Roman Empire proper until the 1st century AD. Many Numidians and Libyo-Punics became famous early churchmen when North Africa became the wealthiest, urbanite and most secure part of the Roman west such as St Augustine.

>>2641822
>vaguely similar to Carthage in the sense they are Afro-Asiatic
>broken into "West" and "East" kingdoms, originally allied with Rome and Carthage, respectively
>East betrays Carthage for unclear reasons
>Numidia is united after 2nd Punic war and allied with Rome
>Carthage is crushed in 3rd Punic War
>Rome has no use of Numidia and crushes them in the Jugurthine War

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>>2641837
>>2641864
I see. Thanks for the info.

By the way, did the Numidians look like how the Egyptians portrayed Libyans with the swanky dresses and all?

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>>2641864
>Rome has no use of Numidia and crushes them in the Jugurthine War
Romans really were perfidious niggers.

>>2641818
Carthaginian army wasn't "mostly unscathed" they also suffered some casualties. And nowadays a lot of people argue that in reality the Roman casualties weren't so bad, as Hannibal would want to win the support of the Latins(who contributed for half the Roman army in the battle).

Generally speaking in the war the Romans didn't really possess substantial advantage in numbers - both the Roman Republic and the Carthaginian Empire were incredibly wealthy and powerful, and in the course of the Punic Wars both were able to maintain armies of the size not yet seen in the antiquity(atleast not in this part of the world). Rome probably had the upper hand as their territory was simply more cohesive, slightly more populous, and they controlled it more directly, in the opposition of Carthaginian thalassocracy.

In Italy though, yes Rome had huge advantage and Hannibal was trapped. Carthage wasn't in place to aid him with fresh troops and equipment - it is not true that the Carthaginian Senate didn't fully support Hannibal. After Cannae they did everything they could and they tried to divert some troops to Italy few times, but they simply couldn't, Romans owned the seas.

>>2641884
Jugurtha overthrew the regime in Numidia that was allied with Rome. That anon glossed over that fact.

Rome didn't fight against "Numidia" per se, but Jugurtha.

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>>2641884
Just going to borrow this historical Pepe.

>>2641895
I thought Carthage was the superior naval power, did this battle take place in the later stages of the second punic war?

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>>2641871
It looks like they had the same hairstyle at least.

>>2641919
Carthage was a superior naval power only prior to the First Punic War, before the Romans made their own navy lol.

>>2641926
The Numidian monarchy had a WE WUZ mentality and claimed to be descended from the Ptolemies.

>>2641832
This.
Hannibal received very minimal (when he did at all) support from Carthage itself, and the Italian allies of Rome were less intent on breaking away from Rome than he (or really anyone) would have imaged.

Further, Rome was seeing advances in Spain, which limited Spain as a source of military support.

>>2641798
Roman tenacity.

I remember hearing how one day a storm killed many thousands of Roman on ships. The very next day they set sail again.

>>2642951
Hannibal had no way of attacking or besieging Rome anyway. Hit and run tactics were all he could ever manage. He knew this and that's why he kept trying to recruit the Italian allies to his cause instead of marching on Rome the day after Cannae, when the Romans - though not beaten - were paralysed.

>>2641764
Z A M A
A
M
A

who cares if you win the battles but lose the war

>>2643019
I believe that fleet was also wrecked by a storm. Either that or the force itself was destroyed after they landed in Africa. Then the Romans built yet another fleet and defeated the Carthaginians off the coast of Sicily and won the 1st Punic war.

One of the things I love about Republican Rome.

>>2641944
That's not particularly far fetched and is probably true even if it was some minor daughter married off to them.

A Libyan dynasty might or was partially descended from an Egyptian of Greek origin dynasty from 100-200 years before.

>>2642951
Yea Carthage really killed themselves. They are a lesson in what happens when internal rivalries are taken as more important than external threats.