Abortion is unethical, not because you're "hurting

>>2622927
You're doing that to millions of future adults every time you nut. Masturbation is unethical.

>>2622927
Then it's murder.

>>2622927

So? FUCK future adults. By your """reasoning""", I should put you down because you're using up resources "future adults" might want or need.

>>2622934
You must have fucking flunked 5th grade biology. Holy shit. No wonder your generation is so fucking lost. You don't even know how babies are made.

>>2622934

Giving those "millions of future adults" lives is physically impossible. Giving ONE a life, however, especially one that already happens to be growing inside you, is not.

in ancient times when child sacrifice was rampant do you think they actually gained supernatural powers from it or did they just not want their kids?

>>2622927

You're retarded.

You have no way to simulate the infinity-like number of factors that alter life, family, society, and nation histories that mold a person.

You have no honest way of calculating something like that.

>>2622956
Way to miss the point dipshit

>>2622950
t. Retard

>>2622961

What point?

"In this web of alternate universal changes and combinations, I determined that all cases of abortion are correlative to robbing the planet of a pleasant person."

What fucking point?

>>2622927
more important question.
should public policy be based on airtight ethics, or should it make allowances for expediency and convenience

File: f.jpg (8KB, 150x144px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 150x144px

>>2622972

>expediency

is that supposed to be a word?

>>2622951

Ok then, so would you agree that a woman having her period is unethical? By not getting pregnant, she is removing a future adult's chance at happiness.

>>2622927
By your argumentation, not breeding additional human indiviuals in tanks is unethical.

>>2622991

No because this is YOUR argument, remember? YOU have to consider her unethical for not breeding as often as physically possible, tho.

>>2622978
?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/expediency

>>2622991
Jesus Christ, another person who flunked 5th grade biology.

Do you fucks really not know where babies come from???

>>2623000
>No because this is YOUR argument, remember?

What is?

What about masturbation? That's millions of "potential lives" gone in, like, ten minutes.

>>2623007

What are you trying to say?

>>2622991
>>2623013
Eggs and sperms aren't zygotes, anons.

The ethical debate regarding abortion stems from what point of human development we consider "life".

Some say it's immaterial since the baby is wholly dependent on the mother in utero but you could make the same qualification for a young infant.

>>2623007
Are you projecting or are you legitimately retarded?

>>2623022
>Eggs and sperms aren't zygotes, anons

What's your point?

>>2622927
>because you're removing a future adult's chance at living his/her life in happiness.

Except life is mostly suffering and virtually all major religions and philosophers have agreed with this fact. It's self evident in how we try to hide the horrors of the world from children and sanitize/censor their exposure to it to a pretty strong degree. No amount of hugs really makes up for shit like war, chronic illness, violent crime, rape, bullying, poverty, animal cruelty and so on - it's evident in how much easier it is to be evil or bad than good. Even our sources of pleasure and happiness like food, drugs, social status, entertainment, hobbies and sex cause people great misery when they overindulge or we are deprived of them. The unborn are not conscious and don't miss things they never had. Even speaking of them as "possible adults" is absurd - as if we're to consider the rights of nonexistent or imaginary people. You're either a living person or you're not.

certainly killing a child in the womb is no different from doing it outside the womb

>>2623039
Tbh postnatal abortion should be legal.

>>2623022
Still a step in a potential being, as they're necessary for zygotes. By this logic leaving any zinc or selenium undigested us robbing a potential human of existence. We should dedicate all our technology to converting the universe's entire mass into human beings through some future automated scientific transmutation and artificial gestation.

Literally every choice you make that changes the future (read: every choice) is potentially (surely) stopping future lives from happening.

>>2622978

Kek, you're retarded.

It's alright to kill the babby if they aren't part of the actual citizens and are slaves/underclass shitters, like negros.
>>2622952
Both.

>>2623054
>It's alright to kill the babby if they aren't part of the actual citizens and are slaves/underclass shitters, like negros

No it isn't, this is just ignoring their pain by dehumanizing them for political purposes and a yearning for power - a cornerstone of evil.

>>2623033
Wrong. Stop shitposting.

File: couchspeng.jpg (27KB, 480x259px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 480x259px

Stop bogging down the world with children no one wants who will have mental illnesses from neglect and just weigh down the already creaking system.

It's like you guys just want people to live and suffer so you won't be alone and miserable. Suicide should be legal too.

File: c3b[2].jpg (14KB, 456x320px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 456x320px

>>2622927
Did I get aborted?

>>2623017
Human life begins at conception. Egg gets fertilized by sperm, egg blocks off all other sperm, two haploid cells become diploid and begin doubling.

That's when YOU became a human being, just like everyone else.

So no, the fucking egg is not a human being, and a fucking sperm is not a human being; how daft do you have to be to believe that idiocy? You level daft? Is there a level under you?

>>2622927
Frogposters should've been aborted.

File: 1460323713520.jpg (12KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 200x200px

>>2623106
good goy

>>2623022
Zygotes are not human, anon

File: Think.png (547KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 600x800px

>>2622927
Abortion=no successors
People who are old above 80 years. Not all, but the ones who have become very weak, stubborn and dumb or have a heavy mental illness like dementia.

>>2622927
>In happiness

>>2622927
But if abortion was illegal you would be ruining alot of current adults chances at living their lives in happiness

>>2623127
>Human life begins at conception

No it doesn't. The egg and sperm are very much alive. Life is a cycle - the only "beginning" was billions of years ago.

>>2622934
If you are jew and cum on a glass and then you ser that on fire is that a holocaust?

>>2623352
>what is adoption

>>2622934
Your nut, just as a nut, is going to do nothing.
A fertilized egg, in the womb, is going to develop into a person.

>>2623407
>there are people who will spend thousands of dollars in order to get a child of their own womb and partners sperm
>there is enough people willing to adopt to sate the massive influx of orphans that would result as a lack of abortion
Pick one and only one.

>>2623127
>a living cell operating off of survival instincts
Multiply that a billion times and you've basically got a person

>>2623127
>You level daft?
Wot

>>2623465
>there are people who will spend thousands of dollars in order to get a child of their own womb and partners sperm
What does that have to do with anything? That's for people who want to have blood-related children but can't, and therefore spend money to do so
>there is enough people willing to adopt to sate the massive influx of orphans that would result as a lack of abortion
Our adoption system isn't great, but it's better than killing babies

>>2622927
By that reasoning war and murder are unethical too.

File: Assbaby.jpg (22KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 400x400px

>>2622927
WRONG.

Aborrtion is unethical, not because you're "hurting a baby", but because you're removing what could be a vaginal baby and making room for an analbaby. Only Assbortion is ethical.

File: cioran.jpg (192KB, 938x614px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 938x614px

>>2622927
>life
>happiness

>>2623474
There are people who will willingly part with thousands of dollars in order to have a child of their own blood, society is boradly sympathetic to this, even though there exists an instiution whose sole purpose is to provide children who were unable to be cared for the chance to be adopted by couples, from this we can make a pretty broad observation "Society values children born from the dna of the couple more than children not born from the dna of the couple" the adoption system isn't perfect because as a society we aren't as comfortable with adoption as natural birth.

Firstly i disagree with the assertion that a fetus is a baby, the reason fetuses (Feti?) cannot be terminated in the later stages of pregnancy is because it would be considered a human being under the law (i don't actually know why, but there you go)
Saying a baby is made when a sperm hits the egg is absurd, babies can be delivered, fetuses can't, you can have a c section and deliver a baby in the later stages of pregancy, a clump of reproducing cells cannot be delivered.

Society avlues bloodbirth far more than adoption, and as such banning all abortion (assuming such a measure would be effective in the first place) would mean orphanages would overflow with excess supply, worsening the individual conditions of each orphan and effectively denying many the right to family life (under my countries laws anyway)

File: pic of me_and though I was creeped by it so the artist changed it.jpg (103KB, 1200x675px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 1200x675px

>>2622927
Abortion is unethical because one of a human's methods of ensuring self preservation is doing the actions of which all humans will live since if all humans live then the self is one of those living humans. To do actions of which a human is not ensuring so all humans live is to be a human, among others, who is not assuring is proof of a human who thinks. Humans are then experiencing anxiety, stress, and the dangers of which humans experience while they do while experiencing anxiety and stress.

Humans accessed technology of eternal life thousands of years earlier than now. Abortion is unethical because if any human is going to live eternal life...then they probably need cooperation, competition, and help with as many thinking humans as possible. If a human is killed then there are not as many humans as while a human is living.

>>2622927
The thing that bothers me about abortion is how everyone seems to have some different arbitrary cutoff point between "a-ok" and "suddenly wrong." "At conception" or "at implantation" on the pro-life side ends up sounding a hell of a lot more sensible policy-wise in comparison.

Abortion might be unethical, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

It can be argued that drinking alcohol and doing drugs is unethical too, but that doesn't mean they should be illegal either.

>>2623106
>Suicide should be legal too.

When has suicide being illegal ever stopped anyone from doing it?

>>2622927
I go through eggs every month during my period. Is this murder too?

And no one except the person carrying the child i.e. the woman should decide what is done to her body. Why should we let men decide what's best for our bodies? Serious question.

>>2624006
The obvious counterpoint is that the child's body isn't your own. Dependent on yours, yes, even physically connected, but still a separate organism. Also consider that once it's out, you still use your body to care for the kid. Refusing to do so by dumping the kid in a ditch is a pretty huge no-no. Lastly, consider that no human on a planet depends on no other organisms than itself. Unborn children merely add one more to that count (then probably more once they're out). So the body argument seems pretty bad and poorly thought out.

>>2623399
its a hologlasst

nice dub dubs

>>2624171
its bait you fool

>>2623072
>morality extends to people outside of your in group
>suffering is a bad thing, not merely the perception of something as bad in relation to you
Unless you're religious there is no justification for this

People who suppor adding ANOTHER fucking human to a planet that's ecology will irrevocably collapse within the next hundred years (mostly due to all these fucking humans) are evil

>>2623054
>It's alright to kill the babby if they aren't part of the actual citizens and are slaves/underclass shitters, like negros.

It is good to kill slave babies until the mothers are older because then they can work for longer, objectively speaking. Why do you think commies had so much birth control?

>>2623421
>A fertilized egg, in the womb, is going to develop into a person.
Not necessarily. It might develop into a person, it might be miscarried, or it might be aborted. Friendly reminder that there is no such thing as natural teleology and the fact that it COULD develop into a person doesn't mean it should be allowed to.

>>2623377
>The egg and sperm are very much alive
They don't grow into adult humans until conception.

>>2624252
Murderer.

>>2623377
Yes, dipshit, only living things give birth to living things.

$1000000000 says you believe in Darwinian evolution too.

>>2624504
Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

>>2624548

You having a kid is murder

>>2624560

>randomly quoting from a goatherder book

You sure showed him.

How did your post go towards asserting OP's actual claim?

>>2622927
Then should we have forced organ donation? By choosing not to donate a kidney I am very likely removing someones chance of life/happiness. If there right to life/happiness I greater than my right to bodily determination then we should have forced organ donation.

>>2624572
Life begins at conception, and God formed you in the womb.

Intentionally killing that life that God formed is murder.

Kill a pregnant woman and her unborn child in California, face two murder charges.

It's the left that's insane on this, not the right. The left is perfectly happy putting 75% of the abortion mills in black neighborhoods to, as their founding witch said in Planned Parenthood, wipe the black filth off of the planet.

>>2623829
scaruffi sez: "why can't i marry a 12 year old?"
can you answer him?

>>2624621

I don't come from California.

Define 'life'.

>>2624654

You should be able to marry a twelve year old. Progressives, liberals, Marxists and leftist SJWs are the only reason it is illegal in the US.

>>2624686
Fuck off Scaruffi

>>2624560
Is this nigga serious? Why would you quote the Bible as an argument if you don't even know if the person you're arguing with is a christain?

>>2624654
>>2624693
This isn't the Scaruffi of "The fact that..." fame, is it?

>>2624206
And it was fun to point out the flaws in the most go-to argument out there.

>>2624712
It absolutely is that Scaruffi. A few years ago, or maybe longer, he was commenting on his decision to not vote in support of some thing that would allow gay marriage, and this was his reasoning.

I think the greasy meatball just wants to bone a 12 year old, honestly.

>>2624693

https://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/case-studies/230?section=primarysources&source=24

Eat shit you leftist idiot.

>>2623876
When you can't move your limbs.

>>2624504
The percentage of pregnancies ending in miscarriage is unmeasureable, due to how the body will halt and flush a baby with the next menstrual cycle as soon as it identifies an anomaly. It's "estimated" at "up to 25% of fertilizations are not viable pregnancies that are terminated by the body"

Religion has nothing to do with abortion. If an individual identifies as religious, they should follow their beliefs. If you have an unwanted baby in the making, you should handle it according to your personal beliefs.

That being said, anyone who tries to convince or coerce someone to follow the internal machinations of the coercer is an asshole who has no business in this.
Even if you were willing to literally adopt the unwanted babe as soon as it saw light, that does not undo the permanent changes to a human body after creating another human. I won't go down the laundry list, but outward appearances are least of your worries when your body has fulfilled its life-purpose of procreation. Permanent illness, temporary illness that may be permanent if not handled by doctors... which poor women with unwanted pregnancies cannot afford.

Now, with that settled, on pure morality's terms, humans are fucking evil. Having kids is unethical desu. Not to say most people won't have one and not regret it, but it isn't:

ETHICAL:
1.
relating to moral principles or the branch of knowledge dealing with these.
"ethical issues in nursing"
synonyms: moral, social, behavioral
"an ethical dilemma"
morally good or correct.
"can a profitable business be ethical?"
synonyms: moral, right-minded, principled, irreproachable; More
avoiding activities or organizations that do harm to people or the environment.
"an expert on ethical investment"

>>2624738
Enjoy getting v&

>>2624746

I'll take that as you giving up, you Marxist, statist fool.

Why can't the left make any sensible arguments?

>>2624752
Well, have fun in prison.

>>2624560
The Bible never explicitly prohibits abortion. Numbers chapter 5 says that if a priest determines that a pregnant woman has been unfaithful to her husband, he should put a curse on her that's supposed to cause her to miscarry. It does not demand that babies who result from adultery be killed if they're already born. Exodus chapter 21 says that if you hit a pregnant woman and cause her to miscarry, the punishment is only a fine, whereas if you kill the woman, the punishment "a life for a life." Clearly they did not consider a fetus's life on par with an adult's.

>>2622961
shut up dummy

>>2624767

>have fun in the gulag

Fuck off, Stalin.

>>2624738
I'm not a leftist

>>2624870

Oh right. You just preach cultural marxism but you're not a leftist, fuck off Iosef.

You are the reason 10 million Ukrainians had to die.

>>2622927
You've already made a mistake assuming a human life is worth anything. Who cares? I'd destroy a million embryos to cure my hypothetical paralysis. Anti-abortion is a spook by fundamentalists.

>>2624769
>Old Testament
TORAH IN GENERAL* DOES NOT APPLY TO NON-JEWS.

*meaning, laws for governance and such outlined in the OT do not apply to Christians. They're laws from the Old Covenant. They're laws for A SPECIFIC ETHNIC GROUP THAT HAD A SPECIFIC KIND OF GOVERNMENT

>>2624878
>cultural marxism
I'm a theoanarchist you turd

>>2624890

How very special snowflake of you, Karl.

Why are pro-choicers only capable of making retarded semantic arguments? Is it because they only read YA novels?

>>2624936

What's a "YA novel"?

>>2623033
this nigga gets it.

>>2624883
>"old testament doesnt count cuz jews!!1"
>that episode when the christfags denying their own book.

wow you came with that all by yourself?

>>2623033
>No amount of hugs really makes up for shit like war, chronic illness, violent crime, rape, bullying, poverty, animal cruelty and so on
funny how these are all easily solvable problems. i guess illness is the only tricky one, but we'll get there some day.

>>2625025
If they are so easy to solve, why have they been problems since time immemorial?

>>2622927
That's painting with a broad brush. What if the birth of the baby is going to be detrimental to the parents' lives or to its own, demonstrably? What if the parents are not fit, psychologically, fiscally or physically, to properly raise a child? What if the mother is going to be at risk during childbirth? What if the baby is going to be born with life debilitating deformities? What if the parents are deranged, methead rednecks? What if the single mother is young and in financial/psychological limbo, and the baby is a result of rape? Are you willing to sacrifice already existing lives and families for that "chance" of an undeveloped zygote to flourish into a wonderful human being in 20 years? Not talking about abortion past sufficient development, that's messed up imo for the same reason you said, but, why would you preserve the life of a bunch of unintelligent, underdeveloped cells for the sake of "chance"?

>>2625077
Slippery slope when most cases are bad. Categorical imperative.

File: IMG_0219.png (159KB, 400x449px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 400x449px

>>2622952
"Their kids" like they are going to sacrifice them because they don't want them.
Go back to sitting in the corner Oswald

>>2624531
>>They don't grow into adult humans until conception.
They don't grow until adult humans until about 18 years 9 months after conception.

>>2625019
>i dont understand how the new covenant works
>i don't understand how the old covenant works

>>2624883
Even if the specific laws no longer apply, surely you can still extrapolate more general moral principles from them, as Christians often do with, say, homosexuality.

>>2625388
If you want to totally ignore context, then sure

>>2623820
Or you could disregard the idea of those boundaries entirely and consider it a continuous process with an arbitrary cutoff for practical necessity

>>2623045
>Still a step in a potential being
A zygote is already a being.
>>2623138
Of course they are, they're the first developmental step of a human organism

>a bunch of virgins discuss abortion
If you can't handle having a child, don't have sex.
If you got raped who cares, humans are still here because of rape.

>>2622927
i don't agree with you, sometimes you have no choice of becoming pregnant. There are numerous reports of women getting pregnant after getting raped. But also there are reports of young women who aren't ready to be a mother yet. but still have a hot night with their man or boyfriend. it could happen that the condom breaks or the pill kick in yet. in that case should you just accept to be a mother and throw 20 years of your life and education and social life away. Or you take matters into your own hands and remove the baby. So you can have a education, have a social life and become at a higher age mother?

File: Schopenhauer on these Pringles.jpg (113KB, 390x526px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 390x526px

>>2622927
>his/her life in happiness.

>>2622927
abortion is ethical because there should be less of some types of people who aren't me

>>2626293

You have to be over 18 to be on this website.

>>2622927
Abortion is ethical because you are sparing a future adult from any pain, disease, deformity, or trauma it may experience in it's life

Human life may begin with conception, but humanity doesn't begin until socialization. Until this point, humans are just ugly worthless animals.

>>2624252
i hope you despise the 3rd world

Having children is unethical. No one can consent to being born. It is wrong to impose a life of unavoidable suffering and inevitable death upon someone with no say in the matter.

>>2622927
Honestly just ban abortion done by a woman's word, women dont have rational reasons as to why they want the baby gone. No they want the baby gone because it gets in the way of swallowing penis which is fucking evil. Abortion should only be a thing if the child has a genetic defect like autism or deformities that would ruin its future life.

>>2622927
Wrong, the logical conclusion to life is suicide.

>>2622927
Abortion should 100% legal. It makes less poor people.

>>2626365
Omnicide is the more rational answer. You've been carelessly thrown into this miserable existence, but you make sure no one else has to. Suicide frees you from this nightmare but condemns the future children of those around you to the same fate. The only catch is that you have to find a way of killing humanity all at once.

>>2626331
Fuck all you retards who want shitty people to give birth. You don't know what it's like to be raised by incompetent and/or abusive parents. Nothing is worse. You sicken me. Using a child as punishment, not caring that the child will suffer their entire life too.
>hurr she was a slut, so she deserves to be forced to deal with a child xDDDDDDDD

>>2625664
That's no good because you'll never get everyone to agree there, mostly because it's arbitrary.

>>2625587
>muh context
Sounds like relativism to me.

>>2622927
Does the fetus's right to a future override the mother's right to decide what her body is and isn't used for?

Go away OP

>>2624553
Oh my god.

>>2626238
So is a sperm cell. It moves, it has purpose, it is made of atoms, it carries genetic information, and it is a single cell that's the ancestor of all the single celled organisms before it. You're really dumb.

>>2624883
You quoted Jeremiah?

>>2628569
>You're really dumb.
Yes, yes you are.

>>2628577
Yes, yes I did. (I am not the poster you linked to.)

>>2628612
What a rebuttal.

>>2624006
Women don't have to sign up for the draft, so why should you have a say in any matters concerning the military? The question is whether a fetus is a person or not, not whether a women should have "the right to choose". If we accept the premise that a fetus is a person with full human rights, then it doesn't matter where it is. Do with your body what you want to, but no one besides the fetus should be able to decide what is done with its body. You are a prime example of another woman who got suckered into third-wave western feminism without actually ever thinking about the issues logically.

>>2628677

I know, right? Used your own words against you. Such delicious irony!

See, as it turns out, sperm only has HALF the genetic material necessary for human conception, i.e. human life, to begin.

Turns out the EGG is also necessary!

Who knew!

Oh, yeah, everyone over 12.

>>2628577
I did not. One must use discretion when reading the OT.

Also, Jeremiah is Nevi'im not Torah.