Now, that the dust has settled, can we agree that the Confederates

https://youtu.be/jrYlR6RwRCw

(no)

>there are still people on /his/ that the american civil war was about slavery instead of northern tariffs and the harmful effect they had on southern economy

>>2615812
I like how the abolition of slavery is still being misused to provide some sort of moral high-ground for the Union and it's pillaging, disorganized army that invaded the South, and raped and murdered millions of American citizen.
Fascinating, how effective propaganda can be, even after 150 years.

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>>2615828
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

I like how you are all faggots who have no idea what they're talking about. Here, have a read from the actual secession letters the states wrote. It was about slavery.

Indeed, the effect of propaganda is fascinating.

>>2615848
>Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth.

Muh states rights
Muh tariffs

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>>2615848
>She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

>>2615812
The question one should ask: Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?
It's pretty clear that throughout history, again and again, the negro has shown his complete and utter inability of leading a civilized lifestyle. Without the guiding hand of the white man the negro will always fall back to his dark, animalistic nature and seek not to create and design, but to destroy and corrupt what others have created before him.
Consider the state of any contemporary African state run by negroes. Take a close look at South Africa: what has once been a proper 1st world country with the standards of living of a high-end European nation, has been dwindled down to a crime-infested, disease-riddled shithole. That is the sad, but predictable result of setting the negro loose.
Slavery might not have been pretty, but it was the ONLY way of arranging the relations between the race of men and the race of negroes, without the latter interfering with the former's vision of establishing a new, free world.

>>2615864
Good point.

>>2615802
It was a war, get over it.

>>2615848
>five of the union states (Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, Missouri and West-Virginia) permitted slavery
>these fought a vicious civil war to abolish slavery, while practicing slavery

>>2615848
Did you even read what you posted?
>The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

>The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

etc.

The Federal government trampled all over the constitution and the economical and political interests of the Southern States, so they LITERALLY had no choice but to secede.

>>2615874
Started by Lincoln to get away with murdering as many American citizen as he could.

>>2615802
They may not have been the good guys, but they certainly had the better army.

>>2615802
Slavery was wrong, but seceding was right.

>>2616029
You have 10 (ten) seconds to give an argument why slavery was wrong.

>>2615893
>The South forces the Federal Government to pass unconstitutional laws stripping the rights of self-determination from both free and enslaved Americans or they will freeze the government process
>accuse the Union of trampling the Constitution

>>2615864
Numales will call you racist, but you're goddamn right. Without slavery there would be no US.

>>2616200
You have 10 (ten) seconds to sterilize yourself and prevent future generations of being brainlets.

>>2616212
>The South forces the Federal Government to pass unconstitutional laws stripping the rights of self-determination from both free and enslaved Americans or they will freeze the government process

>The South forces the Federal Government to pass unconstitutional laws

What a load of horseshit.

>>2616217
Not an argument.

>>2616233
What is the Fugitive Slave Act?

>>2616250
A rather sensible piece of legislation.

>>2616254
>forcing free citizens to act against their Christian conscious
>in any way justified

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The south went full reactionary and wanted to break from the whole modern era. The ruling class could not abide being chained the north that was moving through all the fashionable isms with the rest of Protestant Europe and wanted to be free to pursue its S.P.Q.R esque ambitions without the dead weight of northern liberals obsessed with memes like "human rights" and "equality" dragging them down.

>>2615812
>Lincoln is elected, who maintains a position that, although he refuses to allow the further expansion of a tired and dying system well into it's twilight years, he will make no moves to deprive the South of their already implemented system of slavery.
>South chimps out at the notion, breaks the Union and proceeds to fire on federal property

Is there any group more delusional in this world then Dixieboos?

>>2616258
>Having no respect for another man's property.

>>2616284
That's the best you can come up with?

>>2616268
The CSA were the true successor to the ancient Roman Empire.

>>2616289
Say, you're a farmer and one day all your cattle runs away. Do you want to see your source of income, the only way to feed your family, returned? Or is it suddenly ok, because of 'muh humanity', 'cows are conscious beings too!' or some other liberal bullshit?

>>2616258
>Christian conscious
This got to be b8.

In hindsight, Lincoln original plan to buy off the slaves and ship them back to Africa would have been better than emancipating them. Too bad that the north didn't have the resources and that some southerners weren't willing to give up their property so easily. Also, glad to see some people being red pilled about slavery. Personally, we should bring back slavery but without the race component. Sjws literally only whine about "much slavery" because it was black people being enslaved

>>2616310
>In hindsight, Lincoln original plan to buy off the slaves and ship them back to Africa would have been better than emancipating them.
Tbh, this would have saved the US of countless problems during the 20th and 21st centuries.
Just imagine how beautiful and prosperous the US would be without gang-violence, riots, looting, drugs, disease and welfare. FFS, Chicago and Detroit would still be inhabitable.

>>2616310
>Personally, we should bring back slavery but without the race component. Sjws literally only whine about "much slavery" because it was black people being enslaved

I disagree. I don't want to see white children being enslaved to rich negroes. Imagine OJ buying a whole damn harem of white girls. This can't be right. Whites should always stand out as the masters of all other races, at least in the US.

>>2616325
you forget that one must still be somewhat wealthy to own slaves. After all they are property and one can't own property without buying it first and since most blacks are poor, in practice most slave owners would be white

>the South started the civil war!
Why is this ahistorical myth so popular among modern leftists and other kinds of mental midgets?

>>2616334
Most are poor. But rich actors, rappers and drug dealers would buy a fuck tonn of white slaves, and treat them like dirt, just to "get even".

>>2616355
well yeah there's that unfortunate side effect. But I'm an amoral fuck who is pro-slavery, did you really think I care?

>>2615802
The Confederates were the ones DEFENDING their land from the Northern Aggression. Sounds like a pretty decent cause to me.

>>2615864
*tips pith helmet*

>>2616300
>people being people is "liberal bullshit"
Fuck off dude.

>but why is slavery wrong?
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.

>>2616393
>Slavery isn't a good system economically,
you don't have to pay your slaves, just feed them. Literally the cheapest workforce you could ever find

>and will consume less
>implying a consumerist society is desirable

>you want to being back slavery as a way to masturbate about how much dee epik libcucks have been cucked XD!
actually no, because I said we should bring it back without the racial component a.k.a there would be white slaves too. actually the libcucks would laugh and cheer that FUCKING WHITE MALES are slaves

>>2616401
>Implying Christianity implies slavery is wrong
I bet you turn the other cheek when Jamal fucks your wife, faggot.

>>2615864
>The question one should ask: Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?
Yes.
>It's pretty clear that throughout history, again and again, the negro has shown his complete and utter inability of leading a civilized lifestyle.
Ethiopia, and Africa isn't a complete backwatershithole (though most of it is, like most continents is a shithole).
>Without the guiding hand of the white man the negro will always fall back to his dark, animalistic nature and seek not to create and design
Prove it. (mugabe deported significant ammounts of his population, it's hardly suprising that could fuck up a farming industry)
>but to destroy and corrupt what others have created before him.
Prove it.
>Consider the state of any contemporary African state run by negroes.
Alright
>ake a close look at South Africa: what has once been a proper 1st world country with the standards of living of a high-end European nation
Which disregarded the basic right of democracy and ability to have a say in government for the majority of it's citizens, give me liberty or give me death.
>has been dwindled down to a crime-infested, disease-riddled shithole.
HDI in dex in 1990 was 0.621, HDI now is 0.666, you're full of shit.
>That is the sad, but predictable result of setting the negro loose.
Improvements to the country and democracy? What a fuckin' tragedy.
>lavery might not have been pretty, but it was the ONLY way of arranging the relations between the race of men and the race of negroes, without the latter interfering with the former's vision of establishing a new, free world.
No, it's not, slavery was, and remains, a shitty economic move, and antithetical to any form of non bastardised morality.

Stop treating the board as /pol/ with dates you fucking newfag, read the sticky you sly sack of shit.

>ITT upset Southlets

https://youtu.be/KqD6Qk9yS-0

>>2616407
>just feed them.
Spotted the dense fuckwit that's never owned a house before.

>>2616385
>people being people
Again, some liberal mumbo-jumbo.
A slave is, first of all, a means of production. If your CNC-machine goes haywire, do you want to get it fixed and start machining again, or do you want to hear some shitty rant about machines developing consciousness and being free to decide if they want to work or not?

>>2616437
Because building servants quarters is such a HUGE investment, you could build some crappy shack since you're so stingy. Besides, you only have to look at the historic wealthy southerners to know that slavery turned a tidy profit for slave owners

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>>2616435

>how are you neutral Johnny Bull?
>we'll settle next with you

*panicked bonging sounds in the distance*

>>2616450
>implying that a sapient machine would let us know that it's sapient

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>>2616454

>>2616254
Just so we're clear and everyone is on the record the Alt Right are still pro slavery but think that the CW had nothing to do with slavery.

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>>2616407
Right, well you clearly don't understand economics
Sras is the ammount of shit people could produce at this moment, AD is the total demand for goods, AD has multiple components Consumption, Investment, Government Spending and then applied to the total sum of those things is (Exports-Imports) Workers who are being forced to work and only being kept alive by the cheapest means possible are simply going to do less work, Shifting sras to the left, meaning a lowering in gdp.
Now, going over the components of AD
>Consumption
Slaves don't consume and paid low skill workers are going to have less work, meaning consumption will fall, shifting AD to the left and lowering gdp
>investment
I don't believe there would be any notable effect here, remains static.
>Government spending
Less legal citizens = less government spending and tax revenue = AD shifts to the left
>Exports and imports
This one's interesting, if we assume that a country is self sufficent in terms of food slavery may increase international competitiveness and increase Exports, and if you're an utter scumbag then food imports will probably go down as cruel slavemasters don't afford their slaves a living standard better than subsitence.
Here, i made a graph for you.

>>2615864
Go to bed, (((Trump))). You have to be up 6am Moscow time

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The negro was brought to the Americas for one purpose only: as means of production.
Under the white man's guidance and supervision the negro worked hard, and managed to achieve a respectable level of productivity. He became an essential part of creating the greatest civilization of the second millennium.
Once the negro was "freed" of that role, by the softhearted humanitarian liberal, his entire existence became pointless.
The negro was stranded in a foreign land with no purpose, no aim, no master to keep him fed and warm. He could not afford to return to Africa and go back to his naturally animalistic way of life. And yet, at the same time, he could integrate into the white man's society, built on reason, respect for the rule of law and thousand year old-traditions.
He had no choice but to turn to vice, violence, alcohol and drugs. Abolition was equally bad for the negro as for the white man.

>>2616475
Just for context, a rectangle with a lower area would be a weaker economy, while one with a larger rectangle would have a smaller area, and i made a few fuck ups and left off the effect on ad, posting fixed version

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>>2616489
Whoops

China managed to become the world's strongest economy, because the bulk of their workforce is essentially slaves. People who claim that slavery is not effective, have absolutely no clue what they are talking about.

>>2616429
>not a single valid argument
>"prove it!" (referring to common-sense observations a 6 yo could make)
>le /pol/ boogeyman
Nice one, reddit!

>>2616483
Respond to your replies, asshole.
>The negro was brought to the Americas for one purpose only: as means of production.
Amazing point, slaves were used in the production of goods.
>Under the white man's guidance and supervision the negro worked hard, and managed to achieve a respectable level of productivity
lol no, slaves will never work as hard as paid free counterparts, being allowed to live and no more is not as motivating as "here's some stuff you can trade for literally anything, thanks for doing your work good bye"
>He became an essential part of creating the greatest civilization of the second millennium.
Alright, i'll concede to that.
>Once the negro was "freed" of that role, by the softhearted humanitarian liberal, his entire existence became pointless.
Putting freed in quotation marks is dishonest, the negro was freed, any claim otherwise is simply not true, Humantiarianism and liberalism aren't ideas to be afraid of, and nobody exists for a specific reason, slaves weren't machines, they were people, they weren't born with a purpose, one was thrust upon them.
>The negro was stranded in a foreign land with no purpose, no aim, no master to keep him fed and warm.
As are all free men of age.
>He could not afford to return to Africa and go back to his naturally animalistic way of life
Not even going to dignify this with a response.
>And yet, at the same time, he could integrate into the white man's society, built on reason, respect for the rule of law and thousand year old-traditions.
There is no "white man's" society, germanic people and irish people had different systems of government to each other, and the nords, the idea of racial unity in europe is laughable.

>>2616515
Fuck off with these terrible posts.

>>2615896
which of your reich wing radio propagandists told you that?

>>2616515
The HDI of south africa improved post apartheid, it's gdp trippled since 1990 when aparthied was still around, from 112 billion to 350 billion to day, you're full of shit.

>>2616483
Can you post any convincing evidence that you yourself are not a lower form of subspecies of negro and actually less effective, less intelligent, and of less value to society? What is your purpose? What is your aim? I don't see it... you adopt a stance of unfounded superiority that begs the question is this literally penis envy or were you somehow duped?

>>2616503
And a lack of any regulation on their industry, and living standards, and a weak as fuck gdp per capita (seriously, south africa rivals it)

>>2615864
There is no such thing as evil from a historical point of view. There are systems that work and systems that don't.
The Roman Empire successfully run a slaved-based economy for 2000 years.

>>2616361
>yeah bad shit would happen, but i'm an edgy retard, so why the fuck should i DEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>2616530
>argumentum ad hominem
& Humanities strikes again!

>>2616553
I understand being a newfag, you attack yourself to memes to pass your self off as somebody who actually gives a fuck about history, this isn't history, this is your excuse to soapbox about "Niggerz xd!"
Fuck off and take your shitty posts and ideas with you.

>>2616548
anyone who is pro-slavery is and doesn't admit that it's amoral is delusional. But morality is a spook

>>2615864
>Slavery might not have been pretty,

With solid legislation it could be made decent enough. I think we can all agree, that slaves should neither be killed nor abused. Slaves should deserve ethical treatment, but that doesn't mean that the whole concept of slavery is morally flawed.

>>2616567
>i openly advocate for immoral things
Amorallity in the face of an immoral act is in itself immoral.

>>2615896
>Started by Lincoln
>What is Fort Sumter>>2615874

>>2616573
Duh. I'm not a hypocrite that pretends to be a good person.

>>2616570
Slavery fundamentally strips free men of their liberty, and any means to protect slaves are going to be difficult to expand upon, citizens of a nation who do work require a vote, they require a certain level of living standards, and deserve to be able to partake in markets as they whish, these things are fundamentally incompatible with slavery, wageslavery is a far more democratic, ethical system.

>>2616577
Replying to the second one; fucking mobile versions...

>>2616579
But there's not a lot of pragmatic arguments for slavery at all, an uneducated lowskilled unpaid labout force does not a superpower make.

>>2616560
>I understand being a newfag
I'm sure you do.
>you attack yourself to memes to pass your self off as somebody
What do you mean by that?
>"Niggerz xd!"
That is pretty much the definition of a straw-man.

>>2616587
yeah that's why America is a third-world shithole

>>2616584
>free men
Interesting term. What does it mean?

>>2616588
You've posted two of these shitty "grand" posts talking about how black people are monkeys, blatantly lied about the state of south africa post apartheid, stated numerous times that without the institution of slavery black people had no purpose, you know these posts have nothing to do with the historical aspects of slavery the board isn't /pol/ with dates, attempting to make an argument fot why a historical institution should bhe brought back belongs on a politics board, not a historical board, saying "& humanities strikes again!" is just a blatant way of scoring brownie points, argument ad hominem isn't exclusive to the humanties shitposters on the board (aka, (You))
or anyone on the board, what is you argument? I've responded to two of your posts and i've gotten "You haven't made a point" as your only counter argument, please explain to me without value judgements why slavery is a good thing, or alternatively, take this non historical discussion off the fucking board.

>>2616595
People outside the system of slavery in this disucussion, free from intervention from any third party into non illegal personal matters in a broader sense.

>>2616577
>Fort Sumter
Illegally occupied by Union troops. When told politely to leave, they stubbornly refused to do so. The South had no choice but to kick out the invaders by force.

>>2616593
It's almost like for the vast majority of the existence of the USA didn't have slavery, and of course there are no shitholes in America.

>>2616623
ok what about the Roman empire?

>>2615802
Unconstitutional, bit not immoral.

In fact I wish someone less shitty than the south had Succeeded so secession wouldn't be a dead movement.

>>2616628
It's dead Jim.

>>2616604
>"grand" posts talking about how black people are monkeys
Now he resorts to outright lies. Oh, how the mighty have fallen!

>>2615864
This post sure pissed off lefty/pol/ and the local breed of cucks. Well done.

>>2616636
DELET THIS
But seriously the roman empire fell for reasons unrelated to slavery. Also, ancient Egypt had slaves.

>>2616644
Both of these civilisations existed when practically all work is what we would consider lowskilled work, getting 10 slaves to push a big rock around takes 10 slaves and a whip, getting 10 slaves to become nuclear engineers is going to be much harder.

>>2616639
fuck off

>>2616647
>putting slaves to work on nuclear engineering
Now THIS is retarded.

>>2616429
>unironically bringing up HDI to compare the standards of living
Is this some kind of sick joke? The rate of violent crime in SA has exploded since the fall of the apartheid. Yes, surely "years of schooling for adults aged 25 years and more" is more important than the likelihood of getting raped and murdered of the streets of Capetown. Murder rates in SA are higher than in Mexico, FFS.

>>2616615
>Illegal

Why is it illegal for federal troops to occupy federal property?

>>2616674
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa
The exact opposite is true regarding the murder rate, the 1980's and 1990's were under apartheid, and murder rates shot up, granted recently they've grown, but the murder rate has "Exploded" is frankly untrue, on rape, you're right southc africa has collosal problems, but i would like it if you could provide me with a source for rape exploding post aparthied, instead of being similar during and post apartheid, HDi also uses Gdp per capita, and life expectancy, not just education, and if the murder rate was high enough then the HDI would fall as a high murder rate would lower the average age of death.

>>2616700
Murder rate is heavily underreported in modern SA.
http://www.frontline.org.za/Files/PDF/murder_southafrica%20(5).pdf

>>2616686
Because the Fort was not on Federal territory anymore once South Carolina seceded.

>>2616651
Nice rebuttal there, pal.

>>2615864
Fuck off back to /pol/

>>2616734
Fair enough, i'll retract, i don't think that the failure of a state is justification for enslavement however.

>Trying to maintain an incredibly imbalanced slave-based agrarian economy in the 1800s+
>Being brainwashed enough to unlist over "muh states rights" when it was about preserving the wealth of the Southern 1%

I can pull up data on how the richest of them held all the slaves. The vast bulk of the confederates were extremely misled young men. They killed their brothers and died themselves to protect the wallets of their local slave masters.

>>2616750
South Carolina had already previously ceded Fort Sumter and the land it was built on directly to the federal government of the United States

https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/who-owned-fort-sumter/

Sorry senpai, but the War of Northern Aggression was started by the South when they fired on and seized federal property.

>>2615802
>can we agree that the Confederates were actually the good guys
No

>Lincoln's action were both unconstitutional and outright criminal?
Yes

>>2615864
>>2615864
WTF i love slavery now

>>2616808
>They killed their brothers and died themselves to protect the wallets of their local slave masters.
People weren't misled into killing their brothers, they were joining the Southern army to defend their fucking homes.
Take Sherman's March to the Sea: the Union devastated the city of Atlanta and burned the countryside, the resulting rate of civilian death was enormous.
For your average Southern soldier, this wasn't about slaves or tariffs or anything but fending off a fucking invasion force.

>>2617056
And you would think they'd start questioning the reason they seceded in the first place when it started coming to that.

>>2617115
It would only confirm that decision.

>>2617123
>gee, this war sure is hard on us, but we got to keep the war machine up so the 1% can keep their cheap labor

I suppose it isn't that stupid considering that it seems to echo modern American war philosophy.

>>2615864
you are a cuck and need to grow up. learn what it means to be human and then rejoin society.

>>2617136
>the North is increasing it's influence over the South
>South decides to cut all ties and become independent
>a punitive force burns literal cities down
you know what, maybe we shouldn't want sovereignty, these people seem like the got the best interest for us.

>>2615864
I think we can all agree that abolishing slavery was a huge mistake.

>>2616483
>The negro was stranded in a foreign land with no purpose, no aim, no master to keep him fed and warm. He could not afford to return to Africa and go back to his naturally animalistic way of life. And yet, at the same time, he could integrate into the white man's society, built on reason, respect for the rule of law and thousand year old-traditions.
>He had no choice but to turn to vice, violence, alcohol and drugs. Abolition was equally bad for the negro as for the white man.
While I don't necessarily agree about the animalistic bit, I think you're right that the sudden abolition did cause a lot of damage to the blacks in America. Should have been a much more gradual process, imo.

>>2615802
>Can we agree that the traitors were actually the good guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRXmuvLU8LQ

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The Confederates merely needed more T72s to win the War.

>>2616530
Seems like someone got triggered. kek.

>>2617291
>traitors
There were defending their homes, you fucking imbecile.

>Civil war thread
>It's shit

How utterly baffling

>>2615864
>Take a close look at South Africa: what has once been a proper 1st world country with the standards of living of a high-end European nation, has been dwindled down to a crime-infested, disease-riddled shithole.
It was 1st world if you were white, if you were black you lived in a state of high poverty and high crime but nobody cared or reported on it because you weren't white. Today it is still pretty 1st world if you are white, and it is still shit if you are black. The country is no worse off today overall just a bunch of butthurt whites are pissed that they can't own black servants anymore.

>>2617550
After they started a war

>revisionists
>CSA apologists

Fucking ew. And I'm a Mississippian.

>>2615848
exactly. they were so blatant about it

>>2616734
>In the 1999 National Mortality Surveillance System data, homicides of black and coloured people accounted for 93% of the 6,800 homicides reported. (This is higher than the 86% that these race groups make up of the total population recorded in the 1996 census.) (Sibusiso Masuku, PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE: Addressing violent crime in South Africa, Institute for Security Studies. Published in SA Crime Quarterly No 2, November 2002). This reveals a consistent pattern. Throughout South Africa’s history, as revealed by the source documents, going back half a century, the vast majority of homicides and murders were committed by non-whites on/to non-whites.

huh

>>2615812
No. You're a fucking brainlet. It was literally only about slavery. Recently it's become hip to believe this sort of non sense, I guess it has to do with wanting to conform.

Slaver is bad , dude, any way you look at it. Being a slave sucks balls

>>2615893
>The Federal government trampled all over the constitution and the economical and political interests of the Southern States
Those interests being THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY.

Jesus fuck, how can one man be this fucking

>>2618065
including, but not limited to, slavery != slavery

>>2615864
>The question one should ask: Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?
Only if the enslaved are white. Don't care about niggers or chinks.

>>2615812

How about reading the actual declarations of secession that Southern states wrote that directly mention preserving slavery and white supremacy

>>2618075
>not limited to
Except that's the only thing they mention as the source of this oppression.
Did you even read the entire thing or just skim through it and make sure to ignore all context in your quest to find a snippet that supports your argument?

cmon guys, lets all keep our attention towards the real enemy here, the jews.

>>2618108
>Southern States trying their best to ensure a future for the white man
>Union cucks shit all over the white man's interest, give niggers guns and basically tell them to rape and murder southerners

Yet, we are still somehow supposed to believe the Confederates were the bad guys. Holy shit.

>>2618118
Abraham Lincoln was a goddamn kike. That's why he hated the American people so much.

>>2618130

Sherman's army *grew* as it marched from Atlanta to the sea. Ordinary white southerners were either ambivalent or sympathetic to the Union cause. The Confederate cause was led by and designed for the slaveholding aristocracy.

>>2618115
>Except that's the only thing they mention as the source of this oppression.
Except that it isn't the only thing they mention, they clearly state that it's about a fundamental schism in policy and interest, slavery being the prime among them, and the South's inability to keep complying to those differences.
In fact, the gross of the declarations is about the state's constitutional right TO secede, a pure bureaucratic admission as to why it can declare independence.

>just skim through it and make sure to ignore all context in your quest to find a snippet that supports your argument?
Such as Virginia's declaration of independence not mentioning it's practise of slavery at all.

I see southerners are still as delusional as ever.

>muh war of northern aggression

you guys attacked first

>muh not about slaves

kek

>muh states rights

to own slaves

The idea that the civil war wasn't fought over slavery is perhaps the most hilarious bit of propaganda in America history. Like, who the fuck are you trying to fool? Yourselves? Because that's all you've accomplished.

Fuck Slavery I don't give a shit about it. But I do care that you slimy traitors tried to secede from our country.
FUCK U YOU FUCKING TRAITORS!
#Rebel-Scum.

>>2618276
this

>be rebel
>get crushed

it's the way of history.

>>2618234
>slavery being the prime among them
No, slavery being the only among them.
>the gross of the declarations is about the state's constitutional right TO secede
What part of "perpetual union" do you Southern retards not understand?

>>2618426
>perpetual union
>quoting the articles of confederation

top kek

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>tfw you'll never be a wealthy southern gentleman on your death bed and still have the balls to tell a slimy yankee to shove it

America would never have been great if it wasn't unified by the conqueror Abraham the Just.

It would have just been a loose confederation of backwater hick states. It's no wonder that confederate apologists like is backwater hick states.

>>2619280
>the bravest man in south carolina is an invalid who didn't fight

>>2619301
SC was empty when sherman got there. All military men were in Virginia with Lee or TN with Hood.

I would say that the South was ethically wrong but legally right. The states voted to join the union they should have they right to vote themselves out, if we ignore this then the basis of Brexit would be illegal as well.

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>>2615802
>unconstitutional and outright criminal?

The war, occupation, and even Sherman's march to the Sea were perfectly constitutional. The constitution only applies to citizens (or at least that's what Dixieboos say to justify slavery), and if we accept the south's declaration of independence then they are no longer citizens and under the protection of the constitution.

That means they are fair game.

Yes we can! And I am a woman who wouldn't have a black man if there were no white men left on the planet!

>>2619280
>I'm mighty sorry dat our race was set free too soon
You see, even the negro himself admits that abolition was a mistake.

>>2618276
>live in a country founded by slave owning rebels
>hate on another bunch of slave owning rebels for daring to try to do the exact same thing

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>"It is a libel on white men to say they are unfit for slavery"

>"It is the duty of society to protect the weak;" but protection cannot be efficient without the power of control; therefore, "It is the duty of society to enslave the weak."

>"In free society miscalled freemen fulfill all the offices of slaves for less wages than slaves, and are infinitely less liked and cared for by their superiors than slaves. Does this elevate them and render them happy?"

>"The slave sleeps at his ease, being fed by the cares of his master, and supplied with all the other things needful for his body. But the poor freeman is constantly awake, seeking the means of subsistence, and subjected to the severe dominated of want which compels him to hunger."

>"We conclude that about nineteen out of every twenty individuals have "a natural and inalienable right" to be taken care of and protected; to have guardians, husbands, trustees, or masters; in other words, they have a natural and inalienable right to be slaves. The one in twenty are as clearly born or educated, or some way fitted for command and liberty. Not to make them rulers or masters is as great a violation of natural right as not to make slaves of the mass."

What did he mean by this?

>>2616325

>he doesn't want to see whites being enslaved to rich negroes
>not realizing that this is the ultimate fate of the United States

You'd have to be a huge weeping faggot to let half your country secede without a fight. The Confederacy was shit.

>>2621347

Fucking this.

It's amazing how Dixieboos moan about slaves as a "resource", with their amazingly redpilled objectivist economic mindset, and then apparently expected the Union to let half the fucking United States to just peace out b/c *autistic argument*

>why yes, slaves are simply an economic asset *fedora smirk*

>THE MORAL IMPERATIVE WAS ON LINCOLN TO LET THE SOUTH SECEDE IT WAS MOOORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLL!!!!

>>2621354
The Union was a bunch of Fedora-tipping cuckolds, nothing more. If they didn't have like 3 times the man-power and economic resources, they would have never defeated the Confederates.

>>2615802
It's true.

>>2615802
The main cause of the Civil War was the issue of slavery.

Cultural and economic issues were certainly part of it as well, but slavery was the greatest and most defining cause (as agreed upon by most major historians with any background in this subject).

>>2622182
>The Union was a bunch of Fedora-tipping cuckolds, nothing more.
Explain to me how wanting all men to be equal means that you are a cuckold.

>If they didn't have like 3 times the man-power and economic resources, they would have never defeated the Confederates.
You can't make a statement like that without any kind of source. The Confederacy won a lot of battles in the beginning but as soon as the Union military was reorganized they began a downward spiral. There's also the issue of reason for fighting. The rebels were fighting to protect the pockets of rich land-owners while the North was fighting to free the American people and restore their broken Union.

>>2620480
He was probably an Uncle Tom.

>>2622473
>Explain to me how wanting all men to be equal means that you are a cuckold.
Because if defies both logic and common sense.
Is a rapist equal to a doctor? Is a prostitute equal to a nurse? Same goes for races.

DO IT AGAIN GENERAL SHERMAN

>>2622663
>Is a rapist equal to a doctor?
The rapist would need to go to prison since he did somethung wrong, but other than that they're both human and therefore equal.

>Is a prostitute equal to a nurse?
Yes? Why wouldn't they be?

>Same goes for races.
t. suburbanite white upper middle class college-age teenager who's girlfriend left him for a black guy

>>2624178
>The rapist would need to go to prison since he did somethung wrong, but other than that they're both human and therefore equal.
Is this bait or are liberals really THAT delusional?

If the Confederates considered themselves as separate from the United States, they had no constitutional rights anyway

>>2616385
You have to remember the context of the time. Saying blacks were fully people like anyone else was contorversial. People always forget that history is a context analysis study rather than a way to retrospectively judge groups.

>>2616471
I love it. They also say Hitler didn't do the Holocaust but idolize him for hating Jews.

>>2616503
China isn't slavery

>>2616639
>Without the guiding hand of the white man the negro will always fall back to his dark, animalistic nature and seek not to create and design, but to destroy and corrupt what others have created before him.
>He could not afford to return to Africa and go back to his naturally animalistic way of life.

You describe negros as animalistic twice. You are clearly contending that they are subhumans.

>>2615802
Both were right - without Lincoln, the balkanization of North America probably would have led to a shittier result than what we have now, but the modern people who hate the Confederates and southern heritage are seditious cucks who don't respect our own history.

>>2622473
https://www.nps.gov/resources/story.htm%3Fid%3D251
3 times the man power and production

>This translated directly into the Union having 3.5 million males of military age - 18 to 45 - as compared to 1 million for the South.

>The North produced 17 times more cotton and woolen textiles than the South, 30 times more leather goods, 20 times more pig iron, and 32 times more firearms. The North produced 3,200 firearms to every 100 produced in the South.

The South won initially because it had the West Point commanders in the South. Lincoln had lunited Generals who were afraid to fight and be humiliated. That's why he liked Grant. Here's a funny anecdote.

After the failure of his first experimental explorations around Vicksburg, a committee of abolition war managers waited upon the President and demanded the General’s removal, on the false charge that he was a whiskey drinker, and little better than a common drunkard. “Ah!” exclaimed Honest Old Abe, “you surprise me, gentlemen. But can you tell me where he gets his whiskey?” “We cannot, Mr. President. But why do you desire to know?” “Because, if I can only find out, I will send a barrel of this wonderful whiskey to every general in the army.”

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>2017
>The american people still argue whether slavery is bad, while having several millions of negroes that do not contribute to society and riot once a year when a black criminal is shot while all xenophobia is directed towards mexicans

>>2617296
no self respecting rebel would be caught dead in slav-shit tonk.

>>2626318
Not him, but humans are animals too, senpai.

>>2616284
>having no respect for your fellow man

>>2627278
A good slave could lead a very respectable life. Much better than selling drugs or pussy on corners, like their modern-day counterparts do.

>>2627278
>dindunuffin
>fellow man
Topkek

>b-but muh democracy and voting right of all people
democracy was a fucking mistake

giving people with a biologically lower capacity for intelligence voting rights was a huge mistake, and its blatantly obvious to anyone who dares to question the narrative they've been indoctrinated with since 1st grade.

>>2627323
Democracy as a concept is fine, as long as it is limited to land-owning men, just as the Ancient Greeks did. If you don't own land you obviously lack the dedication to work hard and you have nothing to lose, hence you are not responsible enough to participate in the political process of your country.

>>2627293
I'd rather be a crimminal than a slave, dog.

I'm white, in case you were wondering.

>>2618142
This.

>>2627340

>you are not entitled to choosing what is done where you live

>>2627340
>If you don't own land you obviously lack the dedication to work hard
Sure, plantation owners had it hard, not like those factory workers, miners, sailors, and so on.

>>2627371
Lmao, did you ever run your own business? Did you ever take FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY for your own enterprise? It sure as hell ain't easy.
Not only did the plantation owners have to take care of the usual agricultural and organizational hassle, they also had to go the extra mile of taking care of the slaves' day-to-day needs.
Sick, hungry and unhappy slaves won't work efficiently, so most plantation owners did their best at keeping the slaves well fed, warm and healthy. This does indeed require a lot of dedication.

>>2627367
As an adult you are entitled to responsibility for your own actions, no matter where you live. Going beyond that requires certain evidence of your mental matureness.
If you have nothing to show for in life, why should you be given the right to make decisions regarding the lives of others?

>>2619806
unions are formed on different rules in each instance, not all unions are the same.

In any case, secession in the United States was illegal, as there was no constitutional precedent for what they did.

>>2615802
Any side that decides to defend the horrible practice of slavery is never the good guy.

>>2627479
Is this what they teach in schools nowadays? Sad!

>>2627417
>slavery is good because it forces human beings to rely on the teat of their masters
Da comrade, good verk.

>>2627501
>slavery is good because it forces human beings to rely on the teat of their masters
You do realize that most blacks in the US are on welfare or in some kind of program, right?

>>2627527
>>>/pol/

>>2627629
It's true, though.

>>2615864
will you shut the fuck up, jesus christ

>>2627658
The truth hurts, doesn't it?

>>2627733
It's not the truth. You'really espousing debunked ideas from 200 years ago expecting respect when you're just being a total pseud.

>>2627795
Debunked by whom, exactly?

>>2615929
then why were they btfo, anon? or do they teach you that the south won in your shitty christian schools?

>>2627820
Debunked by the brilliant scientists Dr. (((Rosenstein))), Dr. (((Liebermann))) and Prof. (((Goldberg))), you stupid goy.

>>2627835
>This translated directly into the Union having 3.5 million males of military age - 18 to 45 - as compared to 1 million for the South.
>The North produced 17 times more cotton and woolen textiles than the South, 30 times more leather goods, 20 times more pig iron, and 32 times more firearms. The North produced 3,200 firearms to every 100 produced in the South.

>>2627820
Debunked by history. Quality of life improves for Africans after leaving subjugation. Your Social Darwinism has been empirically shut down.

>>2615864
never thought about it like this

>>2628067
>Rly maeks u tink
Just ignore him. He's a smooth talker, but he doesn't say anything of value in his post.

>>2627795
>debunked ideas from 200 years ago expecting respect when you're just being a total pseud.

I wonder (((who))) debunked it

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>>2628140
>>2627846
What? So /pol/ only has one ad hominem nowadays? I'm dissapointed. What's next on your hive mind checklist, call me a cuck and if that doesn't work ironically refer to me as goy? Off my board.

>>2627440
Secession wasn't ruled illegal until after the war. And even then the supreme Court had to stretch it by going back to the articles of confederation to make their ruling. Doesn't matter considering the south cucked themselves in 1816 and couldn't figure it out in time.

>>2617150
Man you sure refuted that like a genius!

>>2616336
What is fort sumter

>>2615802
Confederates: talk shit, get hit.
The union did nothing wrong.

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DOWN WITH THE UNION

>>2628047
>Quality of life improves for Africans after leaving subjugation
This claim needs references to reliable sources.

>>2628047
>Quality of life improves for Africans after leaving subjugation
Lmao, ever been to Baltimore? Quality of life my ass.

>>2615828
You do realize that around 600,000 Americans died in total from both sides.

>>2629948
Just as Lincoln had intended. A planned genocide of the American people.

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>>2629964
Amazing how little effort went into researching the people behind Lincoln's election

>>2629580
>bitches that he was about to get stabbed in the back
>later stabs a person in the back

>>2630010
Paul Dano had it coming, though. He was a pretentious cunt for the entire movie.

>>2629921
Lmao, ever been to a plantation? Quality of life my ass.

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>>2629789
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3040

the average life expectancy of a slave at birth was just 21 or 22 years, compared to 40 to 43 years for antebellum whites. Compared to whites, relatively few slaves lived into old age.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6335a8.htm

See the difference?

>>2630051
I've had my own plantation, back in the day.
In the quiet and peaceful countryside, fresh air, having to do hard but healthy physical work - it was very nice.

>>2630060
That merely shows that it took several generations for blacks to adapt to the much harsher North American climate.

>>2630060
What was the life expectancy for them back in Africa?

>>2630073
Are you retarded?

>>2630186
Not an argument.

>There are people who think the south was in the right and were the good guys.
>There are people who want the south to be a circle jerk of rich land owners who keep poor whites and enslaved Africans down.
>There are people who didn't want to industrialize and get the south to catch up with the rest of the country.
>"State Rights" being ">" Federal Rights
>Stronger federal governments give more stability, stop states from being shits to each, gets armies raised to act co-ordinated and promotes unionship under one nationality.

I'm from and live in fucking Arkansas, but holy shit. I feel like people are being contrarian just to be contrarian.

>>2630204
>Stronger federal governments give more stability, stop states from being shits to each, gets armies raised to act co-ordinated and promotes unionship under one nationality.
The blue pill is strong in this one.

>>2630231
Quit that pill shit. To say a strong government doesn't promote stability for large nations such as the United States and others throughout history is bottomline retarded.

>>2630236
>To say a strong government doesn't promote stability
I bet you would love it in North Korea then. Kek.

>>2630073
Seriously?
If that's the case then why was the shortest average lifespan for a slave in Haiti? Get out of here you uninformed monkey.

>>2615812
It always beggars belief that left wing retards here unironically think millions of Americans went to their deaths to fight over niggers they absolutely hated

>>2630133
No data I could find for the mid-19th century and before, but this article confirms the high mortality rate was caused by slavery.

https://geriatrics.stanford.edu/ethnomed/african_american/fund/health_history/longevity.html

>>2630247
epic cherry picking tard

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>>2615802

>>2630247
Are you retarded?

>>2630270
Tomatoes are fruit. They have seeds.

>>2630279
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/explore/is-a-tomato-a-fruit-or-a-vegetable

>>2630272
Not an argument.

>>2630249
Soldiers don't choose what they die for.

>>2615864
>Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?

white people never change

>>2630287
>So, the answer to the question is that a tomato is technically the fruit of the tomato plant, but it's used as a vegetable in cooking.
I can use a screwdriver as a pick, but that doesn't make it a fucking pick.

>>2631223
But they do choose what they fight for. Turns out yankees are FOBs that fight for money instead of any actual belief.

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>>2632785
What about all the happy slaves?

>>2630060
>high death rate due to high infant mortality which drags down the life expectancy
>therefore, quality of life is worse
Jesus Christ. That's like saying quality of life in Tsarist Ukraine was worse than Stalinist Ukraine because Ukrainians committed metric fucktons of infanticide during the Tsarist era.

>>2630260
That article shows that the longevity for slaves was not that much worse than whites and that there were more centenarians among negro slaves than free whites. It also outright states that taking care of your slaves was better than just letting them die because of how expensive they were. Did you even read the fucking article you link or did you just assume it corroborated your narrative? Newsflash: it fucking doesn't.

>>2616325
>Whites should always stand out as the masters of all other races, at least in the US.
jajajajajaja

>>2632828
A white invention.

>>2633283
>A white invention.

No it's not. Read some of the interviews of slaves. Very many of them they refer to their masters as polite Christian men. Most of them are not negative in anyway.

>>2633786
I think he means that actual happy slaves were a white thing. Lord knows, you wouldn't be a happy slave if you were in the Ottoman Empire.

Funfact: Slavery became the number 1 topic for blacks only after abolition.

>>2616300
>Doesn't know what a red herring argument is

>>2627293
And a hard-working black person could lead a respectable life in the professions today, yet the best he could do under slavery was a house negro

>>2615864
>The question one should ask: Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?
Yes, you demented retard.

>>2615864
>The question one should ask: Is slavery such an absolute evil in the first place?
wheres your altruism gene

lolpol

>>2629964
> In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow-countrymen, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of civil war. The Government will not assail you. You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. You have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the Government, while I shall have the most solemn one to "preserve, protect, and defend it."

>>2615864
Agreed.

>>2615802

I'm 34, I'm Italian, and last month, for the first time in my life, i decided to give some attention to the American Civil War, starting (because i'm a lazy ass, who has yet to get to the end of 3 different books, and i can't be bother to begin a 4th) with the very famous PBS and ken burns documentary.

1st impression: that was fucking brutal. I mean that was a high intensity conflict. Those Americans really butchered the crap out of each other. No shit, i'm trying to find an equivalence for any European war in the XIX century, but there was none. That fucking Tecumseh Sherman went on total war, before carpet bombing even before breach-loaded rifled barrels.
Also, it's very clear that confederate states LOST the war. And i mean, that i have no idea how was it even possible to posses a concept, as nation, that the US never lost a war before Vietnam - half the US states where stomped. Entire generations in the south disappeared.

Any suggestion for A FEW books about the decades after the Civil war?

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tfw the South will never rise again. Fuck Yankees.

>>2615812
THE WAR WAS ABOUT STATE RIGHTS!
FUCKING THEDOORE ROOSEVELT KNOWS THIS AND HE'S AN EDUCATED HISTORIAN!

>>2636478
>Any suggestion for A FEW books about the decades after the Civil war?
bumping this question