>humanity is 200.000 years old >oldest civilization is

>>2557021
The first great African civilizations popped up around the world hundreds of Thousands of years ago
>inb4 WE
fuck off /pol/

Have you tried teaching an ape how to use tools?

>>2557046
this, we had great kingdoms like Wewuz kingdom, Kang Empire and Sheet Conglomerate

Not according to the Vedas.

You can only be a "civilization" after you have a critical mass of population to develop agriculture, then after everyone has reliable food supplies can you develop construction etc.

>>2557021
There are still people living in mud huts, who never invented wheels or metalworking or agriculture.

Civilization is more an accident than an inevitability

>>2557084
>popped up independently across the world at multiple times
>not inevitable

Ave Maria....

>>2557021
Permanent settlements, which is near-impossible without cultivation of agriculture, is key to having a civilization that remains in one place, and permanent domestication of crops such as rice and wheat weren't harnessed until 8,500-10,000 years ago.

So yes, without a permanent source of food that doesn't migrate with the seasons, humanity was stuck as a hunter-gatherer society until the conditions allowed them to remain in one place and not lose their food source for it.

Nothing exists unless an 8 year old can have evidence of it.

T internet police

File: neanderthal_460x276.jpg (12KB, 460x276px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 460x276px

Civilization cucks on suicide watch.

File: 0fbezxrt.gif (1MB, 300x198px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 300x198px

>>2557046
>great African civilizations

>>2557102
There were plenty of places with good weather.

Why does no one remember the Vedas?

>>2557113
Wheat was selectively bred from wild grasses.

>>2557149
Neanderthal =/= Homo sapiens (us)

>>2557182
Actually that's not what one single civilization tells us.

They all say that dudes came from the sky and gave is wheat and taught us how to plant and harvest it.

>>2557021
Yes? I think you underestimate just how difficult it is to create sustainable agriculture

>>2557064
>>2557113
>le edgy atheists still exist in 2017
Someone call Nat Geo, this specimen might be the last of its kind!

>>2557163
If people way back when stuck to coasts and rivers, as they do now, those places would be submerged as the sea level rose at the end of the ice age. At the peak of the last ice age 20,000 years ago, sea level was 130 meters lower than what is now.
That's plenty of water to ruin and cover coastal settlements.
The problem is, a lot of early settlements are built of wood, which doesn't last very long in sea water.

File: IMG_0137.jpg (31KB, 300x265px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 300x265px

>>2557059
Kek
Made me laught out loud

>>2557217
well sorry we have archeological evidence of the gradual changes from wild grass to wheat. really the only major crop that we have sparse evidence of its domestication is corn

>>2557084
Everyone has the wheel now.

>>2557267
Wood age makes a lot of pre stone age sense.

>>2557097
It poped up a few times and spread through trade and conquest

>>2557284
And before the wood age there was the shouting age.

Where rival tribes would run up and shout at each other really aggressively.

Figuring out planting food in the ground means you can hold on to one area and build a house rather than live in caves or hide huts is an exponential effect. The reason why it baffles us so much is that we were taught toolmaking and technology at a young age. Imagine having no knowledge of how to do any toolmaking or having never heard of an axe or club or bow.

>there is no way for us to know what we were doing as social groups in prehistoric times
>we will never know of the small-scale tribal wars that shaped our current cultures and civilizations
>there were likely diverse cultures that were wiped out that we'll never know about

Feels bad

>>2557295
>no knowledge of toolmaking

the predecessors of the modern humans used primitive tools millions of years ago

>>2557295
>we will never have a record of the first human ancestor who figured out that using a rock or branch to hit someone on the head worked really well

Fuck, I want a time machine.

Also, should the concept of weapons be attributed to this hypothetical ancestor? Or were weapons inevitable anyway?

>>2557335
Weapons were inevitable since we were hunter-gatherers.

>>2557312
also we will never know about other hominids and their cultures like the neanderthals. Perhaps some of the cave paintings we have found actually belonged to them

File: image.jpg (41KB, 345x427px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 345x427px

>>2557046
>great African civilizations

File: japan4.jpg (32KB, 674x500px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 674x500px

>>2557021
I think there's a strong possibility that full scale civilizations, as in city building, only really happens once in a blue moon, rather than being some sort of inevitable stage of development. It spreads like wildfire by word of mouth or even examples of ruins afterwards, but it may very well be that all of civilization everywhere in the world, can be traced back to two or three proto civilizations that set off the spark. It maybe, much like language, that an extraordinary confluence of a multitude of evolutionary factors, both social and circumstantial, must come together in one place for folks to achieve it, but once they do, it endlessly self perpetuates.

There were settlements and even trade outposts during that time, however, or at least some archeological evidence of such places. There were also lots and lots of temporary farm plots, just no real agriculture of scale.

You also take into account that we lost a lotta coastline - like, an African continent's worth - during that time as the world warmed up after the ice ages. There maybe a lot of ruins of proto-civilizations, now under the ocean, that have yet to be found. We've yet to dig up all the treasures from Alexandria, and that sank within recorded history, in addition to being not all that deep. Underwater archeology is just prohibitively expensive.

We will probably yet find another ruin to make us wanna push back the Holocene date sometime either way, it's just a question of how far and how soon.

>>2557217
This is why I personally believe in aliens.

>>2557635
I've always hated this line of logic for promoting the whole chariots of the gods theory.
Next time you're out in the middle of nowhere, away from civilization, imagine you have no clue about the origin of life, the planet, or the universe. You have no concept of the earth being round, you have no concept of logic. Then try to come up with a theory of how you go there.
There's really two options, either the origins of you and your society have something to do with the vast, infinite reaches of mysterious lights and patterns above, perhaps having something to do with the great moving orb that gives you heat and makes your crops grow... Or you came from the dirt.
Some civilizations still went with the latter.

>>2557097
>happened a handful of times in the last thousand years

>>2557276
There is evidence of corn domestication

>>2557071
This.

Also need language too. Fun fact, deaf people who do not learn sign language end up with an IQ low enough to be considered mentally retarded; because without a language to have an inner monologue with, abstract reasoning is basically impossible. I'd imagine it'd be pretty difficult to build a civilization with a bunch of 70IQ non-verbal troglodytes.

>>2557021
>Am I seriously supposed to believe that for 192.000 years humanity has done nothing but to hunt and pick berries?
yes because they lived in the Pleistocene faggot

>>2557084
It might have been, kind of.
Agriculture started showing up by the time humanity had occupied the entire globe. It might have been a result of demographic pressure.

>>2557046
>make up a claim
>don't provide proof
>create a logical cycle by calling everyone who disagrees with you a lying fool

>>2559131
>taking bate

>>2557021
The Hyper-War destroyed every evidence of former civilizations.

File: BKe9yFW.gif (494KB, 254x178px) Image search: [Google]

494KB, 254x178px

>>2557059

> Sheet Conglomerate

Kek as fuck.

>>2557059
The Wewuz-ian Kingdoms only became as powerful as they did because they served as vassal under the Finnish Khaganate, and were there to fill the space left after the Hyperwar.

>>2559112

What the fuck, that's fascinating! Dost thou recollect thine sources?

>>2559112
Source?

>>2560999
>Hyper-war

What did he mean by this?

>>2557071

I remember reading that it has a lot to do with written language because without it a language is confined to what can be remembered by individuals and thus is fairly limited. Generally the things limited are abstract concepts. So people from cultures with purely oral languages don't do well with abstracts like math or long range planning. It pretty much explains why Africa is such a giant clusterfuck.

God, I hope I live long enough to watch the absolute shitshow that will be Chinese colonization of Africa.

>>2559112
This, people severely underestimate the role of language in intelligence, creativity, etc. There's a reason why Germany produced the world's greatest philosophers and England did not even though they're both Germanic western Europeans.

Yeah that confuses the shit out of me too.

>>2561090
Philosophy is a social construct

>>2561106
I think that's exactly the point.

>>2559112
I'd be really curious to know if African languages are way simpler in concepts of what can be discussed with them and if that would contribute to the low IQ of Africans if what you say is true.

Could it be possible that simpler the language it leads to inferior thought process?

>>2561313

Sort of.

If your language has no concept of the abstract, then you're going to have a pretty limited concept of the abstract yourself, probably. There were no written native languages south of the Sahara prior to Arabic and later European colonization. An oral language is confined by the minds of its speakers. When a language gets condensed down like that, the basics are all that are likely to get transmitted down through the years. Injecting abstracts into that sort of environment isn't easy. So those cultures would probably have stayed more towards the pastoral. They wouldn't have been stupid per se, just limited to what they used on a regular basis.

>>2561102
Atheists are dumb

>>2557021
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=dGiQaabX3_o

File: K.jpg (46KB, 600x632px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 600x632px

>>2557059
>Sheet Conglomerate

>>2557021
Imagine zero point of technology. Absolutely nothing; no language, no tools, no clothing. What are the odds that you happen to come accross a naturally occuring fire in your lifetime? What are the odds you take notice of it? What are the odds you recognize the usefulness of it? What are the odds you figure out how it was made and are able to reproduce it yourself?
If you manage to reproduce it yourself you've made a huge leap forward technology-wise. Do you recognize that you can cook with it? Do you use it to ward off predators? Do you use it to burn out grasslands and flush animals out?
Do you and your family get a chance to pass this information on? Maybe early on you create a large forest fire and get yourself killed.

Progress would be slow as fuck before oral tradition/writing.

>>2557021
>Am I seriously supposed to believe that for 192.000 years humanity has done nothing but to hunt and pick berries?
Yep

That's what makes racist claims about Africans developing civilisation 2000 years after Europe all the more ridiculous

>HUR WE'RE SUPERIOR BECAUSE WE BEAT YOU TO IT BY 0.5%

>>2557021
Atlantis developed hover trains 10000 years ago

>>2557021
yes, at some points there were less than 10000 humans

>>2562187
Well, Europeans have only existed for 40000 years.

>>2562263

there was a sewere bottleneck some 60-70 thousand years ago, but before that there must have been large populations

humans dont realy breed slowly in the wild, they get checked by diseases and hunger and fights but they can still grow and spread fast when were talking tens of thousands of years timescales

it could be that what we call civilization is just a process that happens when a human population finds itself in the right conditions, same as mold springing up from spores, and it might be just as temporary, spontaneous, a cluster of cultural developments and behavioral sinks that condition some set of behaviors that seem favorable to survival but depending on the capacity of the system to maintain complexity and mass something reaches breaking point and you get a systemic collapse eventualy, especialy if they are isolated or if the sorounding populations are primitive or hostile, often a culture just reaches some limit and goes out, the way fire catches on in the wild, most often it burns itself out before anyone even notices, you just find a huge swat in siberia or the amazons and its just burned out, or you dont find anything a couple decades later

maybe the state of global civilization we have today is like the whole planet catching fire

>>2561090
WIR

>>2557021
>humanity is 200.000 years old
Physiologically modern humans are 200000 years old, language is only 50000 years old and without language we were just naked apes. Then you have to wait some time for language to become sophisticated enough to allow complex interactions, and then you have to wait for these interaction to result in archeologically visibly technological and cultural developments. After that you have to wait for accidental discovery of agriculture, because hunter-gatherers don't build civilizations.
So yea, 8000ya looks pretty plausible to me.

>>2559119
I remember reading that giant cave hyenas literally stopped humans advancing into North Eurasia for 20-30,000 years because they got a taste for us and lived in the same caves we did, honestly I shudder to think of being a prey item to something like that

>>2561090
nice b8

>>2557046

WE

>>2562463
WARN

>>2562546
Nice disputing of his argument, Germans did have the greatest philosophers across the centuries, they are Greek-tier in that regard.

>>2557021
Oldest civilisation is 12000 years old.

>>2562487
Nobody thinks there are civilizations of some great age really, there is a hypothesis that Sumeria wasn't the first one, that's all. And that there were some civs before the ice melted, which isn't exactly some preposterous claim.

Even if we follow the natural course of evolution and if you want - language, its still possible. Besides how little we know of prehistory its ridiculous. We are defining stages of intellectual development, cultural identities and what not on few remains of objects made of bone and stone, while ignoring the area that ended up being flooded. Look at the map of the world about 12 000 BC.

I'd be careful about saying there were civilizations such as Atlantis that build enormous megastructures and what not, although there are definitely hints of it, but to say they were organized societies, even agricultural ones - not so strange.

>>2562666
Which one, Satan?

>>2561464
no, u r

>200 thousand years
That is anatomically modern humans.

However behaviorial modernity is much more recent thing, about 40-50 thousand years old. And since the last glacial started 110 and ended 12 thousand years ago, its no wonder first traces of human settlement and such only started after.

Of course this is just a hypothesis, based on apparent complexity expansion in human tools and art we found.

>>2562565
KÖNIGE UND SCHEIßE

File: Civ4ScreenShot0075.jpg (98KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 1024x768px

But everything started 6017 years ago.

>>2557059
LEL

>>2561090
>and England did not
England produced some phenomenal logicians as well as the greatest writers. It's a bit more complicated than that anon.

>>2562565
Könige

>>2557157
>>2557413
>>2559131
>>2562554
No matter you fucking memes or what race Egyptians were(obviously non-whites). Egyptians were Afracans in every sense of the word.

Greeks took from Egyptians and Romans took from Greeks.

>>2557059
Egypt is in the Africa continent: True or False?

>>2562666
Göbekli Tepe

>>2561018
Criminally underrated

atlantis was real

>>2562187
Im sorry who makes these claims exactly?

>>2562450
This guy gets it. The world is has been approaching a breaking point and it will come soon give it 10-50 years we will witness the collapse of the globalized age. We will see a new dawn of humanity and possibly the return of autocratic governments in the west as the people become sick of the decay our "democracies" have fostered. Individual nations can not survive on their own as it stands and this will not last long

>>2564122
>No matter you fucking memes or what race Egyptians were(obviously non-whites). Egyptians were Afracans in every sense of the word.

The Egyptians were only Africans in the sense that Egypt is on the continent of Africa. They had no genetic, cultural or any other kind of link with sub-saharan africa for most of history and they were definitely not black. In all of their art they clearly distinguish themselves from black people.

The Ancient Egyptians did not look much different from the Egyptians of today. In fact the genetic research has shown that the ethnic group in Egypt that is most like the ancient Egyptians are the Copts who look just like more-swarthy than average Greeks.

File: 1489109015940.jpg (29KB, 399x385px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 399x385px

>>2557059

>>2565591
Dude. Egypt is in Africa. ENTIRELY in Africa, not "in Africa" the way e.g. Turkey is "in Europe." Ergo it was an African civilization, as was Carthage etc. Subsaharan Africa is not "the real Africa." "African" does not mean "black."

The KANGZ posts you were replying to were obvious bait posts, by the way, and the first one was legitimately hilarious.
>The first great African civilizations popped up around the world hundreds of Thousands of years ago
>hundreds of Thousands

>>2564192
Not a civilisation, surprisingly complex for its age yes, but not enough to warrant calling it a civilisation.

>>2564122
Egyptias took from greeks everything science related They built the pyramids (the three important ones) and then forgot how to science which makes me believe they didn't even build them.

>>2566138
Define civilization. We can't know if they had one. Whatever was left got desintegrated except for the stone.

>>2557021

The basis of (the beginnong) civilization is the centralization of power via the leveraging of grain crop surpluses by a ruling class to coerce and cajole the majority of society to devote their time to growing grain crops.

Grain crops came about as disaster opportunists. Flooding wipes out most plants, grains monopolize after competition dead.

Note that transitional skeletons show worse defects and diseases than hunter-gatherer forebears. For most people who transitioned into sedentary lifestyles, it was a bad fucking deal.

>>2557628
I thought the yonaguni "ruins" were pretty much confirmed to be a volcanic/seismim occurence

File: 1490452986878.jpg (18KB, 248x189px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 248x189px

>>2557059

>>2566168
You're as bad as the we-wuzzer

File: image.jpg (72KB, 512x470px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 512x470px

>>2565591
That's not completely true but you're right overall . Egyptians clearly distinguished themselves from negroid populations. But I wouldn't say that swarthy Copts are their best representatives. It's clear from their art (which I've studied extensively), that they were brown. I'd say that the Upper/Southern Egyptians are probably the closest to them racially. Copts are probably the best representation of Byzantine/ pre-Arab Egypt though . (More Lower/Northern Egypt).

File: image.jpg (73KB, 500x315px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 500x315px

>>2566642
Modern Upper Egyptians

>>2566642
>Egyptians clearly distinguished themselves from negroid populations.

If only you knew how stupid you sound. How does a nationality distinguish itself from a racial group?

But anyway, Egypt was a composite civilization, you had people of different hues at various levels of society that were equal, and I can't stress that enough to you imbeciles.

File: Egyptian_races.jpg (81KB, 435x331px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 435x331px

>>2566709
Feel like you're triangulating/middle-manning for its own sake. Pic related is from the Book of Gates; their conception of the races of men; Libyan, a Nubian, an Asiatic, and an Egyptian. Clearly they they had a perception of themselves as a certain type. Of course, in practice there were different types, but this was their general concept of their average.

>>2557102
Western Washington state chinook tribes had it pretty comfy. Salmon runs supplying fish to smoke/preserve through winter. Berries. Traded with fruit growers over mountain range. Hills full of deer, bear, cat, squirrel and bunnies. No possums, those came with white man. Plenty of shellfish on tidal flats, clams, saltwater fish, seaweed. Vancouver island even had a dog breeding population by the thousands for dog wool and meat. Lived in log housing.

>>2557267
I wonder just how non-existant Puget Sound would have been with Ice Age. Between how shallow it is, maybe a river valley, when it itself wasn't covered by glacier.

Egypt is a meme anyway

All they had was pretty pyramids

File: 2f74ef28aa4708436442e083db31136d.jpg (185KB, 534x696px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 534x696px

>>2566728
You should know that race is a modern term/concept, and in Ancient times people were distinguished by their cultures, not race, you clearly fell for that trap.

But like I said, you had people of different hues at various levels of society that were equal, meaning a person of a brown complexion, and a person of jet black complexion were both capable of being nobility, case in point Ahmose-Nefertari and her husband Ahmose I, whom were related. Not only that, they ruled Egypt at it's maximus in terms of wealth and foreign rule as far north at modern day Turkey.

pic related
>Stela of the Sculptor Qen worshipping Amenhotep I and Ahmose-Nefertari Date: ca. 1279–1213 B.C.

>>2566752
They had mathematical and astrological concepts millennium before Greece came onto the scene.

365 day calendar, guess where that concept came from..

rational numbers? take a guess..

Don't be so stupid, kid.

File: Mummy_Ahmose-Nefertari_Smith.jpg (144KB, 1022x681px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 1022x681px

>>2566756

>>2557021
learn about cybernetics, find why your statement is so fucking retarded, and then post again

>>2557021
I'm still of the belief that ancient humans were advanced as fuck and we've actually digressed in recent generations

>>2561090
This, I feel like I have to "dumb down" my language since English is a sloppy, inaccurate language that don't allow you to develop new words on the fly.

>>2567093
that's a stupid belief and is not based on any evidence or fact. flat earth-tier stupidity.

>>2566168
Nigga wtf? The Pre-Socratic Greeks (Thales, Pythagoras, etc.) were heavily indebted to the Egyptians, not so much the other way around. Dumb fuck.

>>2567161
lol wut
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_millennium_BC

>>2566642
Egyptians colored the people in hieroglyphics based on symbolism, not accuracy.

>>2566756
>race is a modern term

Lmao. You're only right in the sense that the word "race" is relatively modern. The concept of societies that are biologically/physiologically different has been around since the dawn of mankind. Even before, actually

>>2561090
KEK

David Hume alone is worth more than alle the German idealists combined. Or rather, to quote Schopenhauer himself:
>In every page of David Hume, there is more to be learned than from Hegel's, Herbart's and Schleiermacher's complete philosophical works.

>>2564122
>Egyptians
>hundreds of thousands of years ago

I want reddit to leave.

>>2566229

it definitely looks like a quarry

>>2566756
Regardless of how modern the term race is, the idea of different groups based on different common ancestries is as old as time and the basis of most groups. Their conception of race, in antiquity, was basically "yeah we come from this particular heroic figure, whereas those guys over there come from that particular heroic figure/demi-god".

No shit they didn't have a concept of race, because they hadn't discovered fucking evolution yet you dumb cunt. It wasn't because they believed in libtard ideas about everyone being exactly the same.

>>2566643

>three modern people accurately reflect the full scope of an ancient population
>three modern people even accurately reflecting the full scope of their modern population group

>>2567506

>t.egyptologist

I am disappoint that nobody has posted this yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%83rt%C4%83ria_tablets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni-Trypillian_culture

File: upper-egyptians.png (1MB, 970x600px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 970x600px

>>2567880
just a few examples of the racial type the average probably was, anon. never claimed it was the full scope.

>>2562450
>>2565566
We have found skeletons of australopithicus, neanderthals and such, we can find 280000 year old javelins but no evidence of intensive agriculture before the first domestication of goats, sheep and wheat in the fertile crescent.

Sometimes civilizations vanish, other times areas are continually inhabited for millenia with ups and downs maybe but never a complete disappearance. It depends on the environment. The Tigris and Euphrates suffered from soil salination while the Nile with its low water table never had these problems for millenia until the dam was built.

Humanity is more like the first cyanobacteria.

>>2566766
WE
>>2567462
WUZ

>>2557187
>implying that we aren't the same species

File: Laughing Chink.gif (2MB, 320x200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x200px

>>2557059

File: The Lewis.jpg (16KB, 223x354px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 223x354px

>>2557021
>>oldest civilization is 8000 years old

Freemasons have been faking ruins and artifacts since the time of Napoleon. We have not been here that long. This probably isn't even the real Earth. How can the stars maintain their relative positions in a vast universe? I think we are a colony on the inside of Mars, and are entertainment for the more advanced real Earthlings.

The Ankh of ancient Egypt looks exactly like this much more modern stone lifting device. Our history is as fake as the news.

How do we know the human's brains were like ours? Some scientists believe that the cognitive revolution was very recent.

File: 272B772D00000578-0-image-a-4_1427817090519.jpg (55KB, 634x317px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 634x317px

>>2570054
Not that I should respond to this bait, but you do realize it takes 250 million years for this solar system to orbit the galaxy, and most of the stars in constellations are very bright ones and very far away. Most of them aren't going to change much for tens of thousands of years. Some of the closer bits, have, however, reportedly changed slightly in the past few thousands.

But someone on Alpha Centauri or even Trappist-1, is going to see much the same constellations we do, and for a good long while yet.

>>2557021
Yes

>>2557021
something something finno-korean hyperwar

>>2557021

Our ancestors spent so much time roaming around and hunting. There was literally no time or inclination to innovate until they figured out farming.

>>2570063
This is the only way I can possibly think to describe it except by going full retard (aka world has existed for 8k years, humans are divine design and civilization is a result of that rather than weird coincidence)

>>2557021
Sure, why not? That's how every other species on the planet has survived.

>>2557059
>Sheet Conglomerate

MY FUCKING SIDES

>>2570452
or humans left africa, bred with neanderthals and evolved in freezing cold areas

>>2557021
behaviorally modern humans are around 40,000 years old. before then you don't have the same evidence of social and mental complexity from art, burial rituals, sewn clothing, more complex stone tools, etc. 200,000 years ago homo sapiens still had a cranial capacity much lower than ours. beginning of homo sapiens =/= beginning of anatomically modern humans

and yes: there isn't evidence of domesticated plants before about 10,000 years ago. also developing agriculture isn't entirely about how smart you are, it also depends on whether you have the environmental incentives to do so. it's really not that hard to figure out in a basic sense what seeds do: you eat some wild grains, suddenly plants start popping up out of your shit and trash pile. the development of agriculture depended on the gradual unintentional domestication of plants by people who still were primarily hunter-gatherers, and on specifically communities that lived in frontier zones where wild grains grew but not in enough abundance for the community to live off of. in the early stages of agriculture there was no incentive to settle down and farm unless you had to do so, even the switch to a diet primarily of grains came from necessity. between teeth rot and malnutrition, early farming communities were not ideal.

File: 1477764970516.png (2MB, 697x8275px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 697x8275px

>>2559112
>>2561313
>>2561345

I saved this pic some time ago, found the topic quite interesting.

>inb4 get out /pol/

>>2557187
We could breed doe

File: 1490504244199.jpg (37KB, 461x438px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 461x438px

>>2562187

File: gobekli_tepe17.jpg (1MB, 1275x1650px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1275x1650px

>>2557021
It is a bit odd - but not quite as odd as you're thinking, as you've got your timeline wrong, and are missing some factors:

- Behaviorally modern homo sapiens have only existed for about 40,000 years. (That is, large tribes, burial rituals, language, art, etc.)

- The oldest known civilization is ~11,000 years old, not ~8,000 (Google Göbekli Tepe)

- Much of the world was too cold for large scale agriculture during a good chunk of that time.

- There's scattered evidence of many "proto-civilizations", trading outposts, sometimes even walled, personal and temporary farms, various levels of animal husbandry etc.

So you're looking at a ~25,000 year oddity, rather than one nearly ten times that.

On the other hand, most of the posts in the thread are ignoring some other factors:

- There was a LOT more coastline during much of that time, and a lot of these seas were once rivers. Both were once prime spots for civilizations, and are prime spots for them to disappear in such a way as to never be found.

- Beyond the 10,000 year mark or so, almost nothing of a civilization is likely to survive to be found. Unless they built monuments on the scale of the Egyptian Pyramids or Stonehenge, or giant underground stone temples like Tepe, none of which there is much practical reason for, there's going to be nothing left to find beyond some sedimentary dust. Most cities do not build such monuments, and many ancient towns and cities were made primarily of wood. In 10,000 years, you'd be somewhat hard-pressed to find the remains of even a massive industrial civilization like our own.

We probably will eventually find yet another older civilization to push back the Holocene era again (having just found Göbekli Tepe so recently), but at the same time, we're only likely to push it back so far.

>>2561313
>>2561345
>>2570763
>>2559112
Holy shit has this board really turned into /pol/ without flags?
You retards don't know the first thing about any of African languages.
They are in no way simpler or more complex than Indo European ones. That's not how any of it works.
Languages tend to convey similar amount of info in the same time. Their features are complimentary as well - languages with many consonants tend to have few vowels and vice versa; same with grammar like presence of articles vs presence of noun cases, or free word order with highly fusional vs set word order with few alternate forms of words


If language was ever a factor it has to do with lack of writing system in the past and illiteracy in the present.

>>2572147
It's /pol/ with dates... Though the best way to minimize that fact is to ignore the bait, rather than, to use the colloquial, CTR.

>>2557021
No, you're seriously expected to compare and contrast other worldviews until you find one that isn't blatantly opposed to reason.

Do you have any idea how many human beings there would be if we started reproducing 192,000 years ago?

Hint: Infinite.

>>2572147
yes they are much simpler because sub saharan africans didnt write any of it down, you cant remember all the words in an language

Development accelerates, there were some large barriers to overcome on the way to achieving civilization from the outset

>>2572147
>>2572179
and thats why they didnt develope any complex civilizations, read that article >>2570763

>>2566741
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puget_Sound
Continental ice sheets have repeatedly advanced and retreated from the Puget Sound region. The most recent glacial period, called the Fraser Glaciation, had three phases, or stades. During the third, or Vashon Glaciation, a lobe of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet, called the Puget Lobe, spread south about 15,000 years ago, covering the Puget Sound region with an ice sheet about 3,000 feet (910 m) thick near Seattle, and nearly 6,000 feet (1,800 m) at the present Canada-U.S. border. Since each new advance and retreat of ice erodes away much of the evidence of previous ice ages, the most recent Vashon phase has left the clearest imprint on the land. At its maximum extent the Vashon ice sheet extended south of Olympia to near Tenino, and covered the lowlands between the Olympic and Cascade mountain ranges. About 14,000 years ago the ice began to retreat. By 11,000 years ago it survived only north of the Canada–US border.[11]

The melting retreat of the Vashon Glaciation eroded the land, creating a drumlin field of hundreds of aligned drumlin hills. Lake Washington and Lake Sammamish (which are ribbon lakes), Hood Canal, and the main Puget Sound basin were altered by glacial forces. These glacial forces are not specifically "carving", as in cutting into the landscape via the mechanics of ice/glaciers, but rather eroding the landscape from melt water of the Vashon Glacier creating the drumlin field. As the ice retreated, vast amounts of glacial till were deposited throughout the Puget Sound region.[11] The soils of the region, less than ten thousand years old, are still characterized as immature.

>>2557059
shit nigga we wuz melanin warlocks nigga.

>>2561313

I speak English, Spanish, a grip of Arabic, and I'm currently taking Swahili.

Swahili makes way more sense than English does, and honestly if I was gonna pick a language for clearly expressing concepts I'd go with that.

>>2572364
I've read that suahili alphabet doesn't differentiate between normal and aspirated consonants, how much of a problem is it?

>>2572371
It's something you just kind of have to get a feel for. I'm not great at at it yet, but getting better. In part because Swahili uses the Latin alphabet, some stuff isn't written down. It's still better than how it used to be before euro-colonization tho, where it was written with Arabic, which is pretty poorly suited to representing a ton of the phonemes present.

>>2557059
I spit on my laptop you fucker

>>2570581
>200,000 years ago homo sapiens still had a cranial capacity much lower than ours. beginning of homo sapiens =/= beginning of anatomically modern humans

Wrong. The oldest Homo sapiens brain capacity/skulls with the exception of the one found in Israel were all bigger on average, especially Omo 1 and Homo sapiens idaltu. Hell, our brains started to shrink 20,000 years ago, and we lost a tennis ball sized amount of it.

Main Man Homo Sapien

>>2557021
Is civilisation optimal? There seems to be this underlying assumption that it is. Disregarding that, a naturalistic argument might go along the lines of "...civilisation is not optimal and if it had occurred earlier than eight thousand years ago, we would have destroyed the planet and not been here to destroy it now". But you're right, we didn't just pick berries. They knew about electricity in the Iron Age but for some reason the potential was never realised.

>>2557684
Some went with both

File: 1447237893348.jpg (189KB, 1462x1462px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 1462x1462px

>>2557059
>Sheet Conglomerate

>>2570054
If they're so advanced then why the fuck would they leave any trace as to what they've done?
If these goofs can build a goddamn mars colony then they're capable of concealing all evidence that this isn't the real earth.

>>2570763
WEll thats an interesting thought, but the white man is also knon to knot keep promises or have words describing abstract experiences such as Dharma, but att the same time I can see how this works in terms of social development. you can't build shit without geometry which starts at defining shapes.

File: Lions_painting,_Chauvet_Cave.jpg (17KB, 220x188px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 220x188px

>>2557021
>> Chauvet cave

they would also make great figurative paintings around 30k years ago.

ancient egyptian civilization existed for a couple thousand years. that blows my mind.

>>2567136
Sounds like you don't know the language very well

File: ShangCraftsmanship.jpg (51KB, 614x323px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 614x323px

>>2557021
>Am I seriously supposed to believe that for 192.000 years humanity has done nothing but to hunt and pick berries?

Well consider the fact that the histories of ancient people like the Sumerians, the Egyptians, and the Ancient Indians, and Ancient Chinese talk of people more ancient than themselves.

The fact that you can't pinpoint where exactly civilization anywhere started, and the fact that the most ancient of civs talk of even more ancient times is pretty fucking creepy.

We have whole periods of civilization's prehistory that is unaccounted for.

>>2570054
>there are people who non-ironically have worldviews like this
Wew

>>2574342
>Well consider the fact that the histories of ancient people like the Sumerians, the Egyptians, and the Ancient Indians, and Ancient Chinese talk of people more ancient than themselves.

Thats very interesting. Do you have a source?

>>2574709

It's not a great revelation. Hunter-Gatherers and nomads still made up the majority population until the last five hundred years or so.

Ancient civilizations were in constant contact with people who had economies not based on grain crops.

What everyone forgets is that civilization is utterly dependent on grain crops, which grew heavily as glaciers retreated. Without a scenario where hunter-gatherer cultures find a reason to transition to grains, you don't have a story about alleged ancienter civilizations.

>>2573673

"They knew about electricity in the Iron Age but for some reason the potential was never realised"

They "might" have known about some force but they didn't have a scientific establishment with skills devoted to working methodologies for extracting useful and precise measurements on stuff.

>>2574709
Religious texts all say similar things. There are sunken cities everywhere. If you want to lose some sleep, look into the idea of the Great Year and the supposed disasters that reset civilization at specific intervals.

>>2573673
There's very good evidence that the Egyptians had primitive light bulbs, although I wouldn't be surprised if the main use of electricity was religious in some way.

File: ALIENS.jpg (37KB, 461x403px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 461x403px

>>2574819
>There's very good evidence that the Egyptians had primitive light bulbs
Get the fuck out of here. Ridiculous claims about some artistic depictions of flowers are not "very good evidence."

>>2557059
>We Wuz Kangs n' Sheet is actually codeword for these great empires

File: on-the-Island-of-Philae-in-the-Temple-Of-Isis.jpg (59KB, 448x299px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 448x299px

>>2574843
Well to me, the idea that the Egyptians didn't use electricity for anything and were able to keep torches lit in the center of pitch black catacomb systems seems "ridiculous". I've seen the flower pictures, by the way, but here are some depictions of the same thing which do not stem from a flower.

File: tiamat_vs_marduke-zeus_vs_chronos-ishna_vs_enil-horus_vs_set-etc.etc..jpg (458KB, 1600x1142px) Image search: [Google]

458KB, 1600x1142px

>>2574709
>>2574342
Little creepier that they each have a set of gods that overcame a previous set of gods. Which of course sent Lovecraft on the road to the Elder Gods vs. The Great Old Ones, but it's definitely a recurring theme.

Might just be a remnant of the fact that they abandoned various pre-agricultural gods though.

You'd expect everyone to have a flood legend, given that they all set up their civilizations by coastlines and rivers, but give how much coastline vanished in ancient times, it could also be a reference to that.

>>2574880
>Well to me, the idea that the Egyptians didn't use electricity for anything
Do you have any solid evidence at all? Any? A carving that you've misinterpreted is not evidence. Light bulbs require copper wire, filament material, glass, and a vacuum pump. If the Egyptians manufactured any of those things in significant numbers then some piece would have been able to survive the test of time.

> keep torches lit in the center of pitch black catacomb systems seems "ridiculous
Huh? You do know that the Romans did just that, right?

>>2572074

Not to mention that a large industrial civilization eventually needs low-hanging fruit in regards to metallic and rare earth elements.

This first state of perpetual civilization will be the last on this planet. We've used up an amazing amount and subsequent civilizations will be hard-pressed to have our luck.

Space is the place and we better have the last ticket.

>>2557180

cause aryans anon

>>2572074

as soon as China's government collapses and we can finally excavate their pyramids

>>2574963
Closest thing I can think of to "Egyptian Lightbulbs" would be the Baghdad batteries. Are those legit, or have they been debunked?
They're within the realm of plausibility, I suppose.

>>2575034
The Baghdad batteries are legit. Their use is unknown, but they would have been very weak. Modern recreations produce tiny amounts of electricity. They may have been used for electroplating jewelry, but that's just a hypothesis AFAIK.