Who fucked up China the most? The Qing Dynasty or People's

>>2482794
The Qing because they started from a position of relative strength and wasted all of it.

The PRC started from absolute shambles, made it worse, then started making it better.

The ideal scenario for China would have been a revolution from above led by a competent KMT leader (not Just My Shek) leading the entire cohort of Whampoa that had been split into CCP/KMT.

>>2482794

Mao by a factor of a million. The only thing that comes close to the devastation of the Cultural Revolution would be the time an Emperor ordered all ancient texts to be burned.

File: 20090603-tank-cole-1000px.jpg (213KB, 1000x707px) Image search: [Google]

213KB, 1000x707px

>be CIA living a few blocks from Tianamen
>hanging out with Wu the driver, he's autistic
>big parade going on, people in awe and anger at the display of force
>tell autistic Wu to go stand on front of the tanks
>mfw he actually does it

ABSOLUTE MADMAN

File: 1.jpg (217KB, 1272x700px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 1272x700px

>>2482794

File: 1456209950723.png (909KB, 853x1040px) Image search: [Google]

909KB, 853x1040px

>>2482823

Japan.

Chinese.

Absolute abandonment of culture and humanity.

>>2482804
>The PRC started from absolute shambles, made it worse, then started making it better.

1961 China was still better than 1949 China anon.

>>2482868
Please define "culture" and "humanity" for me /pol/.

>>2482794
The Qing considering the Manchus inherited the Chinese empire from a time when it still wasnt shit.

Culturally the PRC. But then you'd reach the argument where how much of anti-traditionalism was by the Commies, and how much of it was from the Qing Decline period where plenty of reformers were screaming for China to change.

>>2482804
Qing had good emperors who helped China prosper succeeded by shitty ones who fucked it up.
PRC had a shitty leader who fucked it up succeeded by good ones who helped China prosper.

the qing. things weren't entirely peachy for them when the country started to go off the rails, but they had tons of time and loads of opportunity to fix it, and failed over and over again. part of it was the westerners hamstringing them, but their own epic incompetence cannot be overstated.

>>2482888
you aren't wrong, but this really is saying very little if anything.

The Qing, not even debatable. The century of humiliation is literally the lowest point in Chinese history and it was directly caused by the enormous amounts of corruption and the impotency of the Imperial house to handle external threats. The Imperial system made very little sense in the 19th century and the Qing's failure to adapt to a rapidly changing world destroyed the notion that China was firstly a great power but, more importantly to the Chinese psyche, the centre of the universe.

>>2482965
This is the biggest problem with the Century of Humiliation meme. It takes two to fucking tango. If the Qing hadn't been nomadic retards who drank too much from le middle kingdom meme they could have bought whole factories from the west, armories, technology and teachers.

>>2482994
>The century of humiliation is literally the lowest point in Chinese history
The Nanbeichao would like to have a word.

3 centuries for your one.

>>2482894
Holy shit you paranoid mess, how was that post /pol/. My god you need to rethink your fucking life

>>2483040
Not him but you sounded like a retard so he was right to think you were /pol/ or /r/eddit

>>2483032
True. But I guess I was thinking more in modern history, but you're not wrong.

>>2483002
i agree, though i do not think the western powers would have been entirely willing to allow the chinese to buy just anything they wanted from them. the west definitely had a vested interest in keeping them weak, though they didn't have to put too much effort into it when they were all too willing to do it to themselves.

another factor i see rarely mentioned is the qing's addiction to playing the chinese against each other in a bid to retain to their own minority(manchu) grip on power. this worked in retaining them on the top, but absolutely crippled the state in the long run.

>>2483268
Perhaps towards the 1800s. But in 1700 they would have sold anything to the Qing.

China was fucked over by its own system. If the main purpose of education is to memorize ancient texts in order to gain a position in the bureaucracy, that is not a system that encourages innovation. Compare the imperial exams to the Western university system.

>>2482816

This.
Many Chinese I talk to really hate his guts for completely destroying Chinese culture. There's an abyss between him and the China of before.
It's why China has a huge economic impact, but virtually no cultural influence. They don't have a high or low culture anymore. Just MAKE MONAY!

>>2483048
>China literally has a "Cultural Revolution"
>nu-philosopher interprets this as not abandoning their culture

Hmmm...

>>2484506
Please tell me about the Cultural Revolution /pol/.

If an entire people decide to change their culture, is it abandoning the culture, or forging a new one?

Can a people be "cultureless"?

Please tell me more /pol/.

>>2484413
[Multiple Citations Needed]

1. The Cultural Revolution didn't "destroy" culture. That's literally impossible to do without genociding a people or occupying them for centuries.
2. China 1966 and China 1969 were very very very similar. You are fucking retarded for thinking the Cultural Revolution had a major lasting impact on Chinese culture
3. China produces extensive amounts of culture. Both "high" and "low". Just because you are an ignorant fucking /pol/tard who never has watched a Chinese movie in his life doesn't mean everyone in China is an automaton working solely for money.

Fuck you shitposters. I hate how many fucking times I have to disprove you all because you can't accept facts that disagree with your worldview.

When Deng took power, he reinstated all of the Chinese traditions before the CR. He, actually, Huo Guangfeng (his predecessor) ended the Cultural Revolution and rehabilitated the persecuted.
Did you retards miss that part of history?

>>2482994
this is what happens when a minority rules a majority
the majority doesn't figh as hard for that goberment and it collapses

>>2486349
t. commie

>>2486359
Except the Qing did just fine for a couple hundred years, and the Qianlong Emperor's reign was the high point of Imperial China.

What do you mean by fucked up?

Are you one of those memers who blames the cultural revolution for the fact Chinese are bad mannered people who completely lack empathy?

Read Ralph Townsend. They've always been bad mannered people who have lacked empathy.

>>2486389
>who blames the cultural revolution for the fact Chinese are bad mannered people who completely lack empathy?
that wasn't the cultural revolution, that was the three generations worth of famine and poverty created by shitty memes like the Great Leap Forward leading to a dog-eat-dog world for hundreds of millions of dirt poor peasants.

>>2486395
It wasn't even that. Chinese people have ALWAYS been merciless and cruel, even to each other. Especially to each other. It's the result of living in a land populated to barest subsistence levels with such intense competition for resources that being able to eat fried dog knee cartilege is a great luxury.

>>2482794
Qing isolationism was too far reaching. They were to haughty

>>2482888
>1961 China was still better than 1949 China anon.
yeah, but then in 1966....

>>2482994
corruption, humiliation, opium
yeah they really dropped the ball

>>2486389
>Are you one of those memers who blames the cultural revolution for the fact Chinese are bad mannered people who completely lack empathy?
>Read Ralph Townsend. They've always been bad mannered people who have lacked empathy.
It's a myth that they lack empathy, and they are just bad mannered to western standards, we are bad mannered in their eyes too. The Chinese are very friendly and kind people though. You almost get killed through kindness.

Qing are basically responsible for Mao and everything else bad. THey're basically elder-god tiers of incompetent and evil because of this causal relationship to Mao.

Current China is recovering though and is quickly on the way to becoming something resembling a strong society. That's the work of moving out of orthodox communism though.

Here's an interesting document if you want to know what the Chinese think about America: https://www.gwern.net/docs/2013-anonymous-strategicconsequencesofchineseracism.pdf

The best leadership China can have is beginning to solidify around now (and was present in Hong Kong) and is in the form of a disinterested administrator.

>>2482794
at least no one fucks with the PROC

Qing dynasty lost from China what no other dynasty lost, their pride.

>>2487802
Dude, the Mongols put Han Chinks at the very bottom rung of society quite literally.

Stop being an overseas chink faggot who watches CCP propaganda online because he doesn't have a girlfriend lol.

>>2486698
1969 China was better than 1966 China was better than 1961 China was better than 1949 China was better than 193JUST China was not better than 1936 China was better than 1925 China was better than 1917 China was better than 1912 China was not better than 1650-1911 China

Therefore, by this logic, Qing China was masterrace

File: IMG_9488.jpg (106KB, 1000x800px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 1000x800px

>>2487824
>mixing up Yuan China with PRoC/Qing China

>>2487824
I-I am not sure what to make of this post...
I-It's m-mixing up three different eras of Chinese history centuries apart and using memes and ad hominems to try insulting other anons

>>2487837
>>2487846
>lost what no other dynasty lost

If the Qing were bad because they allowed a few foreigners in (and let's be honest, they kind of invited getting their shit kicked in based on how badly envoys and foreign merchants and foreigners in general were being treated) then isn't the Song markedly worse?

The Eight Nation Alliance never treated chinks as badly as their 同胞 Mongolian bros did.

>>2487856
I'm honestly not sure what you are saying /pol/.

Also, using the word "chink" (or any ethnic slur) to describe Chinese people is a sign of butthurt and autism.

>>2487856
>a few foreigners

>Opium wars 1,2
>Sino-French wars
>Russian-Sino wars
>Boxer rebellion occupation
>Colonization of Shanghai, Port Arthur, North Manchuria, Mongolia, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Xuzhou, Tibet
>occupation of far more coastal cities
>unequal treaties
>50% of budget sent to pay for war treaties
>Opium pumped in by brits for $500 billion in Chinese silver 1750-1900
>Expulsion of Chinese in Indochina, Japan, Korea

A few foreigners.

Every single bad thing the PROC done all the other bad dynasties done as well including the Qing and the ROC

>caused the deaths of droves of citizens
>head oppressive policies against its neighbors
>corrupt officials
>rigid draconian laws
>mass and horrifying suppression

you realize that Tigers don't change their strips at least now everyone in the world are afraid of them now instead of in the past where it's just the east half of a continent.

File: IMG_9511.jpg (83KB, 640x877px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 640x877px

>>2487913
>at least now everyone in the world are afraid of them now

>>2487920
I honestly don't get why Korea gets shat on so much. They're fucking harmless, why the hate?

>>2487920
Why does everyone hate India?

>>2487920
I could say that doesn't at all tell about whether they fear China (just whether or not they like them).

but I'm more intrigued with what India and Indonesia has against S.Korea

>>2487930
Have you taken a look at their last 9 presidents?

>>2487920
Why does Pakistan hate South Korea more than they hate India?

>>2487931
the countries that hate India are all Muslim counties

>>2487880
>Expulsion of Chinese in Indochina, Japan, Korea

Good, you had no business being there Chang. Look at what your CCP-backed organized crime-rackets have done to Laos and Cambodia. Not to mention every last ounce of shabu in the Philippines is made and dealt at the top by an ethnic chink.

>colonization

If the West wanted to colonize China they could have done it after the treacherous idiot Cixi got her ass kicked. Instead they asked her back to Beijing. Westerners weren't interested in "colonizing" you, you aren't aware of the distinction of the term. They wanted extraterritoriality because it allowed them to operate territories from which to trade that ran by THEIR RULES, which was why the conflict began in the first place (Qing would allow chinks to destroy foreign merchandise and kill foreigners with impunity).

>opium

Chinks did not give TWO SHITS about other chinks being addicted to opium. The KMT were compelling chink peasants to forcibly plant opium and sell it to other chinks over FIFTY YEARS after the opium war had ended.

>unequal treaties

Can you name a treaty where a side has won a war with overwhelming force and then signed an "equal treaty" with the defeated party? Did the Romans sign an "equal treaty" with Carthage after the Second Punic War?

It makes me think the term "unequal treaty" is a propaganda term...

>>2487864
Back to /r/asianamerican or /r/asianmasculinity with you.

>>2487864
chink
come on you asians are better than this, don't become an sjw fag

>>2487947
>It makes me think the term "unequal treaty" is a propaganda term...

It is.

The English literature available on China's so called century of humiliation is atrocious. It's so one-sided the Chinese themselves would be proud of it as a propaganda exercise.

>>2487931
it not hate but more of general disgust

>>2487932
There's not one ostensibly anti-China multilateral alliance.

Furthermore, China has a number of friends and allies. Pakistan, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Russia, parts of Latin Americs/Africa

It's way too simple to just claim everyone fears China now. There's no real evidence of this and you provided none.

>>2487931
They've had tourists visit it and get raped.

>>2487938
A number of Pakistanis are of Indian-origin.

Furthermore, surely some dumbfucks don't differentiate North and South Korea.

I think people are forgetting that Korean troops were literally worse than crazed Jap-tier when it came to rape/massacres 1900-1970's. Lots of Asians still remember that

>>2487947
Wew there's so much butthurt in this post

The original question, /pol/, is if Qing or PRC is worse for "China".

I'd say that OBJECTIVELY Qing was worse for China in the foreign policy field. If you are seriously arguing that the Century of Humiliation didn't happen, then you should kill yourself and save future anons the trouble of attempting to fix your retardation.

>>2487954
Ever consider that maybe I'm not Chinese, and just am tired of negative ethnic slurs?

>>2487981
Asian "Americans" do not belong in America.

Chinese diaspora need to go back to China.

>If you are seriously arguing that the Century of Humiliation didn't happen

It's a propaganda term. A dynasty got defeated, some turmoil followed and another one replaced it.

This is the nature of the history of China. It's just that modern telecommunications allowed chinks to indoctrinate other chinks.

>>2487993
then you should go back to >>tumblr

>>2482894
its hard to define, but whatever it is, the chinese lack it...

>tries to have a civil discussion on Chinese history
>/pol/ won't allow it because "muh commies"

>>2488009
I actually like the CCP and think they're fantastic and able administrators.

I just cannot fucking stand the absurdly one-sided narrative we get spoonfed on Chinese history circa 1800-1950 or so if you have any sort of interest in the subject and I don't like this face-saving mechanism overseas chinks have developed whereby they excuse all Chinese flaws by handwaving them away with the "cultural revolution" excuse without having to look deeper and realize these are deep, intrinsic problems with traditional chinese culture itself.

File: grrrr.jpg (38KB, 412x430px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 412x430px

>>2488009
>Who fucked up China the most? The Qing Dynasty or People's Republic of China
>everyone pick PRC
>waaaaaa pol

>>2488021
>Who fucked up China the most? The Qing Dynasty or People's Republic of China
>everyone pick Qing
>waaaaaa chinks

fixed

>>2487998
>some turmoil followed

Lol

>>2487999
Not an argument faggot

>>2488021
>everyone picks PRC
1. No they did not.
2. They'd be wrong if so.

>>2488052
if you're triggered by racial slur thats where you belong

>>2486698
>Qing isolationism was too far reaching.

That began in early Ming, Qing merely continued it.

>>2488052
Yes. Some turmoil. In per capita terms hardly as bad as the collapse of the Tang dumbass.

to much
>t. reddit
>t. commies
here

>>2488017
doesn't really prove Qing's general failure wrong

even without solving the intrinsic problems they will probably go down in history as better for the simple virtue of not being gang-raped for a century (due to the nukes and not having a retarded isolation policy but it's still better).

File: EternalAnglo.png (48KB, 460x568px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 460x568px

Are you all fucking kidding me?

The threat question is who fucked up China the most, and none of you have said the UK?

China's decline started in the 18th century, due to overpopulation and subsequent famines, but Britain forcefully trading them Opium was the killer! Drug trafficking to weaken the oldest continuous nation state in world history for monetary and political gain is easily one of the most heinous crimes committed by colonists, let alone the greatest reason for China's decline.

When the Chinese government BANNED opium trade and consumption there, Britain declared war on China to force them to legalise it again! After Britain inevitably won, they established a huge diplomatic presence there and cuckolded one of the cradles of civilisation like it was some backwater in Africa.

Forget the Dresden bombing, the deliberate weakening of Imperial China through aggressive opium trafficking is the worst example of the actions of the eternal Anglo I can think of.

>>2487998
White Anglo-Saxon "Americans" do not belong in America.

Anglo puritans need to go back to Albion.

>>2488429
We both know, as non-anglos, that this will just lead to you chinks moving in and taking over.

You don't give a shit about minorities - as the Austronesians on Taiwan can quite well attest.

>>2488339
>muh opium wars
The only thing the British are guilty of is selling the Chinese a luxury good at bargain basement prices, allowing the Chinese masses access to a product that was formerly the exclusive province of the wealthy.

The modern conception of the Opium wars is a product of leftist agitprop and Chinese trying to distract from the fact they have always been a nation of junkies.

>>2486349
It's a thankless endeavor, but I'm glad people like you exist that are willing to correct autism like this desu

>>2488429
Why are you putting Americans in quotation marks? It's a name based on an Italian man.

>>2488454
Not to mention the cunts had been happy to export to Southeast Asia for centuries, and are presently flooding Southeast Asia with heroin through their CCP-backed triad operations in plays like the Philippines.

>>2487913
On the other hand, no dynasty has managed to destroy every single Chinese tradition the way the CCP did, or make Chinese society completely dependent on itself.

The Qings, Mings, even the Mongols, they somehow respected Chinese traditional self-organization at the village and clan level, the Communists infiltrated everything, subverted everything, they have a totalitarian control over Chinese society that hasn't been achieved by any other political institution anywhere in the world. If they wanted to restart the Cultural Revolution tomorrow, they could do it, if they wanted to restart those "Anti-Rightist" campaigns of the 1950s tomorrow and kill those capitalists they have let sprout since the 1980s, they could.

Previous Chinese dynasties never had that power.

>>2488515
I chalk that up to better technology

which is an unfair advantage but still a point for them when comparing them to the Qing

>>2488515
>If they wanted to restart the Cultural Revolution tomorrow, they could do it
Doubt it, considering that most of the country sees it as a mistake and the youth of today aren't the Maoist perma-revolutionary sheeple that the youth back then were.

>if they wanted to restart those "Anti-Rightist" campaigns of the 1950s tomorrow and kill those capitalists they have let sprout since the 1980s, they could.
It would also trash the economy and possibly be the one thing that creates the miraculous conditions under which somehow, magically, the ROC takes back control of the mainland.

>>2488659
>Doubt it, considering that most of the country sees it as a mistake and the youth of today aren't the Maoist perma-revolutionary sheeple that the youth back then were.

I think you're wrong. Not only they are still perfect cannon fodder for revolutionary politics, but the CCP has enough of an apparatus to change the way people's think very fast. Just look how Falun Gong went from popular in the 1990s to hated by everyone a few years later, thanks to the party's campaign. The 610 Office can be used to anything.

It's not like Bo Xilai wasn't incredibly popular while reviving Maoist aesthetics either. Western liberals believe that if the CCP current model fails, it will be substituted by liberal democracy. Chances are higher that Maoism will return, because Maoism is still the only way Chinese people recognize opposition politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_culture_movement

>>2486349
>Mao didn't commit genocide
really makes me (((think)))

The qing had a moment where they could have corrected the problems of the previous ming administration, but instead fell back on being a smellier ming dynasty.
Mao actually changed the country, in a way that is turning out to have been for the better.

>>2488515
>The Qings, Mings, even the Mongols, they somehow respected Chinese traditional self-organization at the village and clan level
>implying this is a good thing

To make a country, you gotta crack a few peasants.

>>2486349
Go to bed, Mao

>>2488688
The only positive thing Mao did for the country was end the warlordism, which is something the KMT may or may not have been able to do if they had won the civil war. Everything else from the Hundred Flowers campaign to the Great Leap Forward to the Cultural Revolution was just one long series of fuckups.

>>2488734
They KMT may or may not have done it, given time they probably could have, yes. But the question is not "would the KMT have been better?" It is whether or not the PRC or the Qing were worse.
I mean you're right, it was fuckup after fuckup, but their fuckups aren't worth centuries, at least so we can tell at this point in time.

>Who fucked up China the most?

Edgar Snow, Agnes Smedley, Brooks Atkinson and other Western communists who convinced the U.S. government that Chiang Kai-shek was a bad guy and that Mao Zedong wasn't really a communist, just an agrarian reformer.

I still don't know if Joseph Stilwell and George Marshall were just naive and dumb, or treasonous, for falling for it.

>>2488769
Why to people insist on defending Chiang Kai shek? It doesn't matter how much one likes the KMT in terms of its ideology or proposed policy or other such matter, the fact remains the guy was incompetent.

>>2488784
Taiwan turned out fine, though. How much of his problems in China were caused by incompetence, rather than by sabotage by everyone including his supposed allies?

>>2488811
Because a small island was about the limits of Chiang Kai Sheks ability to administer.
>rather than by sabotage by everyone including his supposed allies
It does not seem as though Mao had this problem, despite the CCP's early falling out with its supposed allies having been, well, quite catastrophic for it, from which Mao (along with a host of capable general and some alright foreign advisors) were able to recover from.
perhaps he and is subordinates had qualities that Chiang Kai Shek lacked.

>>2488811
>Taiwan turned out fine, though
Because relocating to Taiwan basically solved the KMT's warlord problem. Taiwan is also much smaller and easier to administer than mainland China.

>>2488784
this desu, people give Mao shit for his authoritarianism and purges and then forget that Chiang ran his own ironfisted military dictatorship in Taiwan that caused, among other things, the 228 incident.

>>2488811
>Taiwan turned out fine, though
All of the stuff that got them to turn out fine happened under his son Chiang Ching-kuo.

File: Untitled.png (36KB, 717x425px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 717x425px

>>2487459
>https://www.gwern.net/docs/2013-anonymous-strategicconsequencesofchineseracism.pdf
This is already pretty funny just in the preview at the start.

File: Qianlong in Armor.jpg (571KB, 1200x1674px) Image search: [Google]

571KB, 1200x1674px

>>2482794
>Qing China had a golden age consisting of an era of 3 good emperors.
>PRC China has no golden age yet.
Hmmm.

File: Cole_Thomas_The_Oxbow_(The_Connecticut_River_near_Northampton_1836).jpg (2MB, 3181x2161px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3181x2161px

>>2486319
I came back to read this thread and I see you post this shit.

I have an utmost respect for the majority of the worlds cultures and hold the idea that ethnic groups hold the right to self determination. The Chinese hold one of the oldest histories in the world and have an immense amount of culture and history to back their nation as a world power.

The proto-revolution culture is CLEARLY superior to the post-revolution culture. Comparing the two is like comparing romantic art to "abstract art" respectively.

The proto-revolution Chinese culture is filled with flourish of art, poetry, architectural wonder, and a more real national identity. The post-revolution Chinese culture is empty shell, Mao forging absolute genocide of Chinese people and destroying the monarchies and abandoning old grand religions and philosphies of Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism. Architecture had gone to commie blocks rather than wonders of the old masterfully crafted forms.

Anyone who argues that Mao didn't affect China for the absolute worst is an imbecile and most likely a communist (can't trust them). Though they are a powerhouse what is a country without their people that identity of culture and history. Russia faced the same problems during the USSR but atleast they seem like they're recovering.

WE WUZ QINGZ

>>2488971
Tell me: who in East Asia celebrates the Lunar New Year as the biggest event of the year while the rest are just cucked by the Gregorian Calendar and western holidays?

>>2486319
It wasn't an entire people, it was a bunch of radicalized teenagers egged on by the central government.

It's as if Obama encouraged SJWs and BLM to beat up their teacher, arrest their parents and destroy museums, libraries and monuments as symbols of "patriarchy" and "white supremacy" and people called it "the entire people deciding to change their culture".

>>2489014
>yes but... they have a holiday

Hmmm... 1 day vs 364 other days.

>>2489004
No, that was the Manchus.

>>2489030
>Tombcleaning festival.
>"Chink Valentines" in April/June.
>Teachers day which the westerncucks copied.
Yeah, just one.

Meanwhile the only communist holiday is May 1.

Both equally fucked China up, but Mao fucked China up in a good way. The contemporary Han Chinese are ruthless fucking assholes who are almost perfect for establishing the world's greatest fascism regime we've seen yet. My body is ready for such an outcome

>>2488947
>“Have you heard about the origins of the world’s human races? This is a story unique to us [Chinese] people. Before, when there was no trace of man on earth, Tai Bai [太白] decided to create mankind. He used clay, just as we make pottery or porcelain, and after having molded it into a human figure, he put it into the kiln.
>The first one was fired too long, and was badly burnt: it was all black! This was not so good, and Tai Bai threw it away, using all his strength, throwing it a long way. He threw it to Africa; hence afterwards everyone in Africa was black.
>As a result of this first failure, the second one was fired more carefully. It was allowed to bake only for a little while and then taken out of the kiln. Look: too white! This wasn’t very good either, and Tai Bai again threw it away. This time, he did not throw it so far. He threw it to Europe, hence afterwards everyone in Europe was white.
>Experience now allowed the third one to be baked to perfection: not too long, not too short. Pretty good! Neither black nor white, but all yellow. Tai Bai was very satisfied, and put it down on the ground. Hence afterwards everyone in Asia was yellow.”
>(Taiwan Kejia suwenxue [台湾客家俗文学][Folk literature of the Hakka in Taiwan], retold by Zhou Qinghua [周庆华] [Taipei: Dongfeng wenhua shuju, 1971], pp. 149-150.)
My side have achieved the first cosmic velocity

>>2489226
How do they get away with this?

>>2487931
Designated shitting streets

>>2489838
Only Chinese people speak Chinese.

>>2489838
1. because asian writing on everyone else is universally funny
2. the steep language barrier ensured that no occidentals would bother learning about this shit until much later. This language barrier would also produce other hilarious results, such as the chinese emperor thinking Russia had decided to be a tributary state, and Russia not being able to read the letter that said "ok since you're a tributary now here's what you have to do", and both deciding to never speak of it again.

>>2482794
I try to hold my tankieness back but come on.

>Qing
>Ran the richest and most powerful nation into the ground by being insular.
>Found Western Christianity and went retarded.

It's almost impossible to lose starting from the bottom like the PRC did.

>>2490184
>It's almost impossible to lose starting from the bottom
Well, the rest of the communist world sure managed that.

>>2490203
Yeah, like the Soviet Union, which went from agrarian feudalism to a global superpower under Communism, and is now a dying backwater that's poorer than Italy.

>>2488947
this is what most Asians think though, and I think the rest of non western world as well

>>2490235
>and is now a dying backwater that's poorer than Italy
The seeds of this were sown under communism, the rest of it is because the Russians are a bunch of lazy fucks with a terminal inferiority complex who just want a strongman to take control of everything, while the Chinese are industrious and competitive to a cutthroat degree.

>>2486349
Thanks based anon.

File: 1480356843033.jpg (61KB, 503x502px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 503x502px

>>2490442
>The seeds of this were sown under communism

1. Capitalism ruined Russia, so it's communism's fault.

2. Gains China made in industrializing under Mao have nothing to do with its current success.

>Bad things that happen under capitalism are bad on their own, and good things are because of the free market.

>Bad things that happen under leftist regimes are because of leftism, and good things would have happened anyway in a free market.

>>2490478
>1. Capitalism ruined Russia, so it's communism's fault.
Communism ruined Russia, which is how the conditions were created for it to fall. Corrupt capitalism just cannibalized the remains.

>2. Gains China made in industrializing under Mao have nothing to do with its current success.
Gains China made largely happened after Mao died, when Deng Xiaoping and fellow reformists ousted the Gang of Four and seized control, and allowed market forces into the system under "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics".

Mao had previously started the Cultural Revolution partially as an attempt to regain control after he was being sidelined thanks to his disastrous Great Leap Forward communist economic policies which, among other things, killed tens of millions through famine, and considered the people trying to reverse his policies to be counter-revolutionary reactionaries.

>>2490530
>Communism ruined Russia, which is how the conditions were created for it to fall.

That has less to do with 'communism' and more to do with the soviet imperialism shitting the bed after glasnost.

>Gains China made largely happened after Mao died

lmao yeah, China stayed exactly the same and didn't change or improve at all until the 70s.

>>2489030
Chinese new year is 5 different days

Don't ask me how

>>2488684
Key words in my post. Watch closely

>genociding an entire people

If genociding a part of a people destroys the entire culture, Chinese culture would've been gone centuries before.

>>2488454
>morally defending being a drug-dealing cartel

>>2488473
China produces nothing in the drug market compared to Myanmar/Laos/Cambodia/Afghanistan.

Good scapegoating though!

>>2488515
The Qing literally cucked the Han so hard it led to an ethnic nationalist genocidal backlash 1900-1950 so powerful Manchus don't exist anymore.

>>2488676
The Falun Gong were never popular.

They are just one of many East Asian cults. They just happened to try bombing and overthrowing the CCP, which is a big no-no in China.

>>2488811
Taiwan was a shithole into the 70's anon.

They had their own mass ethnic cleansing campaign/white terror/reeducation camps.

>>2490530
China improved significantly from 1949-1976.

Mao honestly fucked it up mid-1950's onward.
But not enough give him and the CCP credit for unifying China and Chinese into a nation-state. That's something that never happened before.

Chiang and the KMT started the process, Mao and the CCP finished it.

File: Republic of China Flag.png (3KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 800x533px

>>2490626
>The Qing literally cucked the Han so hard it led to an ethnic nationalist genocidal backlash 1900-1950 so powerful Manchus don't exist anymore.
By the 1800s you barely can't tell who was Manchu and who was Han.

The reason why Manchus don't exist anymore is not because of Genocide, but their language and culture died out by the middle of Qing reign effectively via assimilation. The only one that remained is the shitty dress they left behind and even that was mistaken as Chinese by outsiders.

Furthermore the Nationalists idea of a "Chinese Nation" was ironically based on the Qing-period concept of "Zhonghua Minzu" (literally: "Chinese races") since they felt that as foreigners, the traditional Mandate of Heaven alone won't work on the Non-Han minorities they conquered like Tibetans or Mongols. Hence the rainbow faggot flag that China's first republic flew.

>>2487964

>Korean troops were literally worse than crazed Jap-tier when

communism does that to you

>>2490615
>China produces nothing in the drug market compared to Myanmar/Laos/Cambodia/Afghanistan.

Fucking retard. Southeast Asian organized crime, ESPECIALLY in Laos and Cambodia, is almost entirely ethnic Chinese. That's something disgusting chinks are very proud of with their triad movies.

>morally defending being a drug-dealing cartel

China had been exporting opium to SEA for centuries prior to ever meeting westerners. Fuck off.

>>2488947
That's an excellent paper. Its conclusions are mixed but it is bang on about the hypocrisy of the Chinese when they appeal to third worldist rhetoric.

>>2488965
That was painted by Giuseppe Castiglione I believe.

To give you an idea of how autistic chinks are, when he painted the Emperor in profile, the Emperor's troops beat him up because they thought he was being disrespectful.

>>2488971
>The proto-revolution Chinese culture is filled with flourish of art, poetry, architectural wonder

On the subject of art and architecture you're completely wrong though. Chinese art and architecture is astoundingly uniform and dull. Still better than abstract shit though.

>>2489014
Christmas is easily the most aesthetic holiday on earth. Nothing even comes close. Of course people will celebrate it.

>>2490184
GDP prior to the industrial age is sort of meaningless, since 90% plus of all economic activity was just agricultural production.

>>2490681
He's talking about the Koreans in places like the Vietnam War. Also as auxilliaries of the Japanese they were incredibly brutal.

>>2490691
This. Chinese organized crime has fucked Laos and Cambodia beyond repair. The story of Chinese minorities in Southeast Asia is a tragedy on both sides, but you can hardly blame the Southeast Asians for hating what they see as an insular, hateful group of people loyal to Beijing.

>>2490691
>Fucking retard. Southeast Asian organized crime, ESPECIALLY in Laos and Cambodia, is almost entirely ethnic Chinese.
Not here in the Philippines.

It's almost entirely someone in politics. Duterte's """"""""""""""""""""""""drug war""""""""""""""""""""" is just one big farce.

>>2490717
>but you can hardly blame the Southeast Asians for hating what they see as an insular, hateful group of people loyal to Beijing.
>Most are born in their countries. Some for literal centuries.
>The newer ones are people who fled communism.
>"Loyal to Beijing."
The reason why local SEAsians hate Chinks is because they are more successful.

Again, here in the Philippines, Spain literally considered classed them below the Natives, especially the ones who didn't convert. And still they managed to claw their way to the top since Spics are idiots in Capitalism and the Merchant game.

>>2490717
>an insular, hateful group of people loyal to Beijing.
Insular perhaps, but aside from the small handful of more recent migrants they are far from loyal to Beijing. They're more like Hong Kong and Taiwan in their contempt for what they see as barbarous mainlanders.

>>2490719
>Not here in the Philippines.

Chink detected. Whenever you hear about one of the big drug lords in the Philippines it's a chink, e.g. Meco Tan, or all of the guys in Bilibid who were living it large with jacuzzis etc in jail.

>>2490729
>"Loyal to Beijing."

I've met Malaysian Chinese, the stronger the PRC becomes, the more comfortable they feel talking about their love for their homeland.

I'm not denying the success of the chinks is part of the reason they're loathed, but another part of it is that overseas Chinese are fifth column elements sometimes, look at how outrageously treacherous the Chinese Americans are (raising legal defense funds in the "Chinese community" for obvious spies etc).

>farce

Except the street price of Shabu has skyrocketed.

File: 0702095207864_16676_tumblr_m5h2xbApVJ1r3zat8.gif (240KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

240KB, 500x281px

>This thread

East Asian racism is fucking hardcore, I don't even know who to sarcastically greentext anymore.

>>2490746
No one really knows how loyal, for example remember when the PRC kicked out the triads to Southeast Asia in the 1950s or 1960s? There's a lot of intel to suggest that the Chinese intelligence services maintained links with them to use them as intelligence sources.

>>2490764
>He's a dutertcuck,
Daily reminder Visayans and their lack of civilization are a bigger threat to the Philippines than the Chinese.

Enjoy your $51 to a Peso.

>>2490764
>Malaysian
I think it's a combination of more historical civilizational pride than support of the CCP, combined in the case of Malaysia with a heavy disillusionment with the state of the country and its international reputation. There was a time when Malaysia could stand alongside the Asian Tigers, now it's mostly known for plane cease crashes and the PM stealing a billion dollars.

>>2490820
The point is your loyalty should not be transferable. Overseas Chinese, when China was weak, did not profess loyalty to the PRC. Now the PRC is strong, we start to see the rumblings of fifth column activity.

This makes other people wary of Chinese.

File: le day of retribution face.jpg (163KB, 600x399px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 600x399px

>The salty Pinoy monkey in this thread.
Why would the Chinese fucking assimilate to local Southeast Asian cultures when you have the fucking following.

Malaysia & Indonesia
>ALLAHU AKBAAAAR. THAT IS HARAM. OMG CALL THE RELIGIOUS POLICE. BOYS AND GIRLS HOLDING HANDS!!!
>Wakes you up fuck early for their meme prayers.
>ISIS affliliates

Or the Philippines
>Be Spic-Asians
>Be Lazy
>Devalue education.
>Elect stupid people like boxers and actors in higher offices.

Only Vietnam, Thailand, and Singapore has its shit together. You Islandniggers are fucking jokes.

>>2490846
I'm not pinoy, I'm just saying that overseas Chinese are loyal to the PRC which is why they are hated.

Even overseas Taiwanese are loyal to the PRC, see Wen Ho Lee.

>>2490859
Im Korean and I know enough of Chink history to know that they aren't.

The only PRC people coming to SEA nowadays are fucking tourists. The only place modern Chinks would consider living in in poverty ridden Southeast Asia is Singapore.

File: Screen Shot 2017-03-11 at 12.25.05 PM.png (139KB, 622x916px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 622x916px

>>2490875
Do you know where's most Chinese diaspora are located?

>>2490902
Do you have a version of this table with percentage population?

>>2490764
Asian Americans are just very sensitive people.

They actually get mad when you associate them with rice and dragons and other harmless racial stereotypes.

>>2490902
>Didn't even read the article.
Yes, anon, this reflects modern migration. Meanwhile the article talks of the centuries long history of Chinese migration in SEA. Good Job.

If Chinkidinks are the source of SEA's woes then Thailand ought to be shitholier than Peenoises or Kebab-Seaniggers, except that is not the case now is it?

>We learn English from these people.

>>2490940
Thailand is shittier than kebab-seaniggers and just slightly above peenoises economically speaking

>>2490948
Thailand is so shit, it's golddiggers prefer working in Thailand while Sea Mexicans and Akbar Women marry any white cunt they see.

>>2490955
Korean American women outmarry to whites at the greatest rate.

File: r3.jpg (414KB, 683x641px) Image search: [Google]

414KB, 683x641px

>>2490955
its tradition for flips

File: 1271218018964.jpg (24KB, 638x470px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 638x470px

>>2490955
>>2490957
>>2491019
>mfw this thread is drifting towards racial chauvinism

"how dare our shit women marry who they want"

>>2490764
At least the Malaysian Chinese all learn Mandarin in schools where Mandarin is the medium of instruction, learn Chinese history and literature, celebrate Chinese festivals, and basically still know what it means to be Chinese. Chinese Americans are basically chinaboo-tier..

>>2491081
I assume geographical proximity plays a factor in that.

>>2490591
you don't have to destroy it completely, you just have to fill the tank with enough water where the culture eventually can't be seen, same shit happened with russia, they're just a bunch of capitalistic psychopath narcissicts now after both the communist culture purge and after the communism fell

both russia and china would have been better off without communism as a nation is only as good as its culture, and current chinese and russian culture is fucking shit

File: 1406827124796.gif (2MB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x240px

>it's a "Korean argues with SE Asians thread over China" thread

>>2491605
Not necessary. Take a look at the Indonesian Chinese.

>>2483002
>they could have bought whole factories from the west, armories, technology and teachers.
they did during the self strengthening movement after the second opium war, there was a very large interest in building european style armories and shipyards. But then they just gave the new weapons to the old army without any kind of reorganization whatsoever or even training officers in modern military tactics. So then in 1895 when they got unbelievably BTFO by the japs everyone said wtf we had western guns, how did we fail?

>>2490830
The Malaysian chinks around me profess an antagonistic stance towards the PRC though. Maybe that's just a minor subset.
t.native

>>2492321
i think another problem in the self-strengthening was that it was tied at the hip to regional leaders, like zeng guofang and zuo zongtang. when these guys got appointed to a different province for whatever reason, they'd pack up their armories and everything else with them to their new area. this had the double problem of leaving the old area back a square one and further reinforcing the rising trends of regionalism and warlordism.

another problem was that the self-strengthening movement had a very narrow scope. the qing just wanted to take the best of the west and slide it into their system, but it just would never work without a comprehensive overhaul of the whole system. modernizing select industries but leaving the intellectual infrastructure unchanged, like the officer training you mentioned, was a recipe for failure.

>>2492343
I think it's just a question of who they happen to have more distaste for at any given time, is it the Chinamen or is it the Malays.

>>2483032
What happened?

>>2493618
Google "Northern and Southern Dynasties" if you want to know more, but as a very loose analogy imagine the barbarian invaders who took over the Western Roman Empire (including Rome herself the heart of the empire) just declared they were the new Roman Emperors, then the Romans who fled to the (Hellenistic) Eastern part of the empire went hyperroman culture overdrive and insisted only they were the true Romans, and the two sides stayed locked in perpetual war with each other for a couple of centuries until the whole empire is finally reunited under Charlemagne.

Now replace Western empire with the Northern Dynasties and the Eastern empire with the Southern Dynasties, Rome with the Chinese heartland of the Northern plains, and Charlemagne with the Sui Dynasty and you have a vague idea of the situation.

Although the Eastern empire was already a prosperous and flourishing while on the other hand the South of China had before then been a backwater of uncolonized wilderness, and it was the Southern Dynasties that marked the beginning of its transformation into a prosperous and sinicized region.

>>2493768
>Northern dynasties
The Tuoba Xianbei managed to destroy their regional rivals after the fall of the Former Qin.

The majority of the northerners were natives with the Di/Qiang/Jie identities being subsumed.

>Southern dynasties
Only the Eastern Jin was ruled by bona fide northerners while the majority spoke local Sinitic vernaculars(who eventually usurped the throne) with significant non Sinitic populations in the far south.

>Sui/Tang
Ruled by a northwestern aristocracy of Xianbei and Han descent.

>Rome vs China
A more proper analogy would be if
1.The Eastern Jin emigrants adopt the local Wu and Chu vernaculars instead of introducing their "prestige" dialect.

2.The Western Roman empire reunifies under a minor tribe while becoming indistinguishable from the Romans.

3.Charlemagne has Roman ancestry and he manages to conquer the Byzantines.

>>2484338
>memorize plato
>memorize aristotle
>memorize bible
>You can now enter University of Paris

What the fuck was the difference?

>>2492210
Kek I'd be suprised if a single person in this thread was white. Only asians care enough to shitpost for days on end about China

>>2484338
Early confucian teachers like Xunzi specifically adovated against rote memorization. By the time the meritocracy started to encourage it, China was already long stagnant

>>2494093
>Only X people care about the history of X place
No shit, Sherlock.

>>2488515
the chinks manage to destroy 5 palaces larger than the one on beijing before the commies though

the communist cult of course

>>2491072
cuck detected

>>2495531
I'd argue that the guy pulling his hair out over the idea of a woman from his country dating a white guy is more of a cuck.

>>2487920
How much of the popularity of Japan in Malaysia, Vietnam, the Philippines, Australia, and Indonesia is because of anime?

>>2498460
Most probably

>>2487931
apart from the flips the other countries are muslim countries.
Pakistan is supposed to hate India, it's the basis of their nation.

>>2490691
>>2490717
>Fucking retard. Southeast Asian organized crime, ESPECIALLY in Laos and Cambodia, is almost entirely ethnic Chinese. That's something disgusting chinks are very proud of with their triad movies.
[Citation needed]

Cambodia literally doesn't have Chinese in any significant quantity. If you seriously are arguing that the Chinese are to blame for Cambodia's drugs, you are both fucking retarded.

There are millions of opium fields. The 10,000 Chinese in Cambodia don't farm all of those....

>>2490764
>Chink detected
>[insert ethnic slur] detected

Is this /pol/'s only argument?

>>2492178
>now Russia doesn't have culture because they had communism

Ahh so by this logic, Laos, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, all of Eastern Europe, all of Central Asia, and Burma all don't have culture now.

Thanks for teaching me, /pol/!

>>2498460
>>2500243
Extremely little

Only cuckold autistic fucking manchildren with the internet in those countries even know about anime.

Mao

>>2500339
Yeah, because people don't have nostalgia or shit am I right?