Is /pol/ right about the holocaust? I'm an idiot so I don't

Did the vikings wear horned helmets?

That's the guy that everyone thought mossad killed but ended showing up a decade later right?

>>2458404
I've heard of that one. The answer is no. Please address the OP, and watch the pic related documentary if you're so inclined. I'm really curious if anyone can actually explain for sure why / if all this stuff I've heard through /pol/ is bullshit.

>>2458408
Yea. He showed up again very recently, actually. When I was looking for his documentary, I actually had to look around the interviews he's given since emerging from hiding, because those come up first on search engines. Apparently, after he made his holocaust documentary he was getting death threats. So he changed his name, went into hiding, and worked for the Republican party in California.

>Wow those /pol/ guys might really be onto something!
It's like the boy who cried wolf at this point. I was naive, I thought that the stab in the back myth macros were compelling, at least, before I did my own research and found all of the bullshit that goes into making a conspiracy. A few other spooky Jew conspiracies since with very dodgy sources and I'm just not going to bother any more.

>>2458448
I did my own "research" too, for whatever that means. And all the holocaust conspiracy documentaries are focused on facts, evidence, information, while all the holocaust conspiracy debunking stuff I've seen have the primary focus of character attacking holocaust deniers. I'm not a conspiracy theorist or a scientist, but between the two the holocaust deniers have a much more compelling argument. The fact that it's also illegal to make that argument in Europe lends credibility to it, also, as far as I'm concerned.

>>2458531

It's not illegal...

>>2458540
Holocaust denial is illegal in nearly every country in Europe.

I know I am replying to /pol/ bait, but the Holocaust is literally the most well documented genocide in history and every single one of /pol/'s talking points has been debunked here:

siraaronrichards.imgur.com

Holocaust deniers have never really produced an answer to this.

Also, on the criminalization of Holocaust denial:
>one of the most murderous ideologies in history
>not criminalizing apologies for it

What kind of cuck wouldn't do that.

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>>2458531
m8 there are scholars whose whole life is dedicated to studying the holocaust, there is mountains of evidence. We have Nazi documents, we have testimony of survivors, we have the testimony of the guards, we have the film footage of recently liberated camps, we have the testimony of allied agents who infiltrated Auschwitz then escaped to report on it.

It's also not illegal to deny it in Europe. It's illeagal in some countries, usually ones grappling with their stained history of participation in it.

>>2458557
All making it illegal does is lend credibility to it.

>>2458547

Cite the laws and statutes then.

>>2458557
>>2458557
>every single one of /pol/'s talking points has been debunked here

This isn't just /pol/ though. People have been rebelling against the holocaust history for like 30 years. Plus, the fact that you think the holocaust is "the worst genocide ever" just goes to show how little you really know about history. The holocaust is just one of many incidents of organized mass murder of innocent people. And it's not even the biggest. 20 million Russians were killed by the Soviet government during the same time period. And nobody even knows about that, or cares. It's the holocaust in particular that gets special attention, and that is forbidden from being questioned.

>>2458557
>>one of the most murderous ideologies in history
>>not criminalizing apologies for it
then why is being a communist legal?

>>2458564

Just like making rape and murder illegal lends credibility to them?

>>2458557
What kind of cuck makes free speech illegal? If the holocaust is as overtly true as you state, then there is no reason to fear outliers denouncing reality. IF the opposite is true however, then perhaps you have something to fear and making free speech illegal is your only out.

>>2458563
Fun fact: You can't actually get your hands on holocaust documentation without express written permission from several entities and even then you're likely to get a copy. On top of this, there's so much fabricated documentation floating around (according to the fabricators) who knows WHAT is real and what is fabricated.

>>2458567
Check the map.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

>>2458569
I agree that it should be, but there are more leftists in influential positions than Nazis.

>>2458569
Holodomor was a hoax. Didn't happen.

>>2458572

>asked for the laws a statutes
>gives a Wikipedia page

I thought Wikipedia was run by Jews and Communists?

>>2458568
You are whining, not arguing your point on the Holocaust being fake.

>>2458578
>I thought Wikipedia was run by Jews and Communists?
Not an argument. Either way, the page lists the precise laws and statutes for each country. Keep shucking and jiving though.

>>2458571
Those aren't ideas they're actions.

>>2458572
>Fun fact: You can't actually get your hands on holocaust documentation without express written permission from several entities and even then you're likely to get a copy. On top of this, there's so much fabricated documentation floating around (according to the fabricators) who knows WHAT is real and what is fabricated.
>Citation desperately needed

https://www.ushmm.org/research/research-in-collections/search-the-collections/bibliography/primary-sources

>>2458572

>you need permission to handle original documents

Standard archive procedure is part of the conspiracy now?

>>2458576
ok
what about the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution?
and the Khmer Rouge?
and I'm sure everyone in the GULAG were thieves and murders too of course

>>2458580

>Wikipedia is fine when it's backing up stormfaggotry
>Wikipedia is the tool of Jewish snakes for everything else
>not an argument

Wew lad

>>2458563
>there is mountains of evidence
>posts shoes

Prisoners at the camps had their clothes and possessions taken from them, and they were given uniforms. So why wouldn't there be a giant pile of shoes somewhere? The concentration camps in the US did the same stuff. That's not proof that 6 million people were killed in human gas chambers. You see what I'm saying?

>Eyewitness testimony
Notoriously unreliable as a rule of thumb, and especially so surrounding the holocaust. I'm not going to post /pol/ jpgs here, but even the slightest effort to dig into the eyewitness testimony reveals a completely ludicrous collection of transparently fabricated horror stories that are often either impossible, or that contradict one another, and often both. For example, all the claims surrounding human skin lampshades and human soap factories have recently been exposed as falsifications. What else about the holocaust isn't really true?

>film footage
There is film footage showing that there were concentration camps, like in the US. And there is film footage showing that there was a typhus epidemic that broke out in the camps. There is absolutely no film showing that 6,000,000 jews were murdered in human gas chambers by zyklon b. And furthermore, there's no physical evidence for it, either. Only eyewitness testimony and speculative patchwork of pedigreed experts. Oh, and if you're an expert who goes against the legally accepted holocaust narrative? You're fined to death, attacked and slandered by the media all over the world, and thrown into prison.

>>2458582
>first 5 sources are edited
Bravo.

>>2458583
Ordinarily, you only need to book an appointment with an archive and let them know the document you wish to see. You don't need to go through four or five separate entities.

>>2458590
I never made either claim. I only made the claim that holocaust denial is illegal in most European countries which you denied and were summarily proven wrong. You have no argument. Stop posting.

It's amusing the change from how OP started this thread to how his posts are after being challenged.

Almost as if he wasn't really asking a question, but actually just wanted to spread his demented /pol/ propaganda in an innocuous way.

>>2458567
Not him but I believe the law is something like "it's illegal to deny the findings of the Nuremberg Trials." which includes the holocaust.

>>2458572
>>2458572
Free speech is a meme and something being overtly wrong has never stopped it from being popular and even becoming a political force, e.g. communism, because the mob doesn't care.

>>2458598
>being overtly wrong has never stopped it from being popular and even becoming a political force
Such as the holocaust being true?

>>2458595

Maybe if you are looking up the records of your great uncles goat farm at your local town library. (Inter)nationally important archives and documents require more scrutiny than just casual interest.

>>2458595

>doesn't actually post the laws but what a den of leftists and Jewish vipers say the laws say

Wew lad

>>2458579
You didn't argue either. You just posted a literal 500 page document (that you certainly haven't read), and said "everything that disagrees with this is wrong." At least give me some examples to start with. I've only watched some documentaries about it, (some of which were made by jews, I hasten to add)

>>2458604
You can get into the Vatican archive for specific documents, we're talking 1000+ year old manuscripts simply by making an appointment with the Vatican for the document you wish to see. They approve it themselves. There's no other event where documents are so highly protected. Why? Because there are enough fabricated documents that the truth would come out.

>>2458607
Stop posting.

>>2458607
>expecting someone on 4chan to be a legal expert

It's funny how high the standards get when these controversial threads get started lol. Everybody suddenly needs to be a harvard educated multi millionaire to even have the right to have an opinion

>>2458610
Because you provided no points, you dolt. You just said "watch this youtube documentary."

>>2458596

It's almost like reading "I'm not a stormnigger, but..." is an absolute guarantee that the poster is, in fact, a massive stormnigger. They obviously are trying to pretend to be normal people just asking questions, but they're so easily triggered that the mask drops almost instantly.

>>2458594
>And furthermore, there's no physical evidence for it, either.

Actually yes, there is physical and documental evidence for it.

The human hair in Auschwitz has Zyklon B traces in it. The Birkenau SS Building Office has written specs on five crematoria able to burn thousands of bodies a day. Ground photographs of open burning pits with plenty of bodies have been taken at Auschwitz, as well as undressing women near Krema V.

Your post is literally "It wasn't real in my mind".

>>2458610
>too many words reeeeeee

Millenials everyone.

>>2458596
>demented propaganda

What really ticks me off about anti-holocaust people is how sanctimonious you lot get that someone might dare even consider the other side. That's what's turned me off of the holocaust more than anything, really. It's like questioning God in the most stuck up, shitty mormon church that you can imagine. Everyone pretends to be your friend, until they realize you're not going to just come to their side. And then all the passive aggressive insults come out of the woodworks.

You should watch David Cole before making up your mind and looking down on other people. I get the feeling you haven't really given any effort to hearing the conspiracy theory side of the controversy.

>>2458611

>le Vatican archives

For their open collection maybe. There will be many thousands of documents that are inaccessible without permission and credentials. Just like every other archive.

>>2458619
>not denying that you haven't read it either

Hmmm. Really gets the gears cranking

>>2458611
>>2458612

>actually posting the text of a law or statute instead of Wikipedia is expecting people to be a legal expert

>>2458613
Well FUCK. I kind of had assumed that history buffs had already seen it, you know? It's seems like it'd be kind of famous.

>jewish kid makes convincing documentary about there being no gas chambers in the holocaust
>has to change his name and go into hiding for 30 years

If you people know so much about the holocaust, you'd think you would already be familiar with this documentary in particular. I'm looking for opinions from people who actually know things, not from elitist pricks who think "reeee everbody who denies the holocaust is satan"

Getting acess to Holocaust documentation is the easiest thing in the world, holy shit. Much of it is on the Internet already and the rest you can freely photograph at placea like the Auschwitz museum.

>>2458637
>Much of it is on the Internet already and the rest you can freely photograph at placea like the Auschwitz museum.
>I don't know anything for sure but I know that the culturally accepted narrative cannot be wrong because experts and authority figures support it

reeeeeee this is not an argument. In the documentary I watched, David Cole literally GOES to a holocaust museum and debunks alot of their displays, and talks to the experts there, and catches them contradicting themselves and stuff.

Yes.

>>2458634
Which points of David Cole's documentary do you feel are valid?

I think the most compelling evidence is that the people who were tried for the holocaust in the Nuremberg trails never denied it. They never came out and said, "this is all false, this never happened, there never were any gas chambers".

>>2458641

>low level museum staff not being that good at history is proof of a massive conspiracy

Oh, it's THIS thread again...

>>2458649
>low level museum staff

Nope. Making opinions without actually seeing evidence again, I see...

>>2458646

They also stuck by it to their last breaths too. You'd think they'd have been screaming "It's all a lie! They made me say it! It's all false! I'm innocent!" all the way to gallows. But nope, they stuck with it right to the end.

>in before some shit like "Missed agents shot all the nazis on the spot after capturing them. The people on trial and being hanged at Nuremburg are all just Jewish actors wearing prosthetics" or similar.

>>2458654

You mean the curator? The one who openly tells them that it's a reconstruction?

>>2458401
The question I always have about this is who /pol/ thinks orchestrated the conspiracy.

The Jews definitely took advantage of it after the fact to form Isreal, but I dont see how they would be able to manipulate the Germans as it was happening considering the Nazi's opposition to them is well recorded.

>>2458658
>>2458646
Probably, but you'd think they would have denied it with all their hearts in some form or another whether it was true or not, considering that the allies were certainly going to execute them no matter what they actually did or said.

>>2458664
>who /pol/ thinks orchestrated the conspiracy
The allied powers, primarily the Soviets and the UK with the U.S. coming along later.

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>>2458585
Khmer Rouge was literally CIA backed. (Not socialist)

Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution are heavily exaggerated, and mostly due to environmental calamities and some errors, yes. But capitalist states commit not just errors, but major war crimes and crimes againat humanity of a premeditated nature and dwarfing any so called "crimes of communism" in total death toll over the years to increase the profit-making interests of the capitalist ruling class.

Gulags had nowhere near the "millions" of prisoners that capitalist and fascist-propagandists claim.

And, in fact, gulags were much more humane than capitalist prison systems, certainly way more than the U.S. especially.

If there were really millions of Soviets starving in gulag, why did not anybody see a mass exodus of these supposed "millions of Gulag suffering prisoners" after the traitor US-backed Yeltsin clique finished off the Soviet Union with the coup after the perestroika?

Hmmm....

https://espressostalinist.com/the-real-stalin-series/gulag/

>>2458675
Start your own thread bro, only one denialist per time

>>2458675
>and mostly due to environmental calamities and some errors
>some errors

>>2458679
>>2458679
Learn yourself, Burger.
https://www.quora.com/How-did-Mao-manage-to-kill-78-million-people/answer/Godfree-Roberts

>>2458674
If they had enough influence to make the Germans to build the camps, why can't we see this imbedded influence in other areas? Ir they were that close to the major decision makers why not cut the head off the Axis war effort?

What would the Allies gain from the Holocaust? Facism was already strongly opposed in their countries so they wouldn't need a genocide for propaganda purposes.

>>2458685
>78 million deaths is some error
A communist apologist about other incidents does not excuse Mao of his own "some errors." Jesus, even the Chinese don't deny that the Great Leap Forward was fucked up.

>>2458686
>What would the Allies gain from the Holocaust?

Powerful jews in USA and UK had a fuck ton to gain. They actually got Israel for it, and still get paid billions of Euro per year by Germany in apology money.

Allies get social narrative to demonize the badguys, and to hide the original economic motive of the war. The explosive success and prosperity of German fascism presented an economic threat to the previously UK dominated Europe. They would, in tolerating Germany's rise to power, have to accept a bipolar Europe.

>>2458686
the holocaust conveniently created an excuse for their own war crimes.

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>>2458692
>The explosive success and prosperity of German fascism

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Reminder that neckbeards and sand niggers that to try deny basic history all resort to the same "arguments"

1.) Circumstantial nonsense. "A newspaper article in 1929 made a reference to 6 million Jews". This doesn't prove anything, but their argument is so weak to them they think it's the holy grail.

2.) Falsified claims/lies. "Zyklon-B isn't deadly to humans", "They never found any mass graves", etc. Things that are simply false, but are true to them because of feels or because they're so gullible they'll believe anything they see as long as it's from some conspiracy blog.

3.) Poorly-made MS paint pics that make a bunch of circumstantial claims then connects them together. For instance, a German general mentions a number in 1943 inconsistent with x study done in 1953. Clearly the numbers are false then! The concept of empirical evidence doesn't exist to these people, so they think this actually proves something.

4.) Stupidity arguments derived from low IQ's. For instance, the claim given in this thread that since a lot of people died and a death camp wasn't that large an area, they couldn't have been buried there, the furnaces didn't burn hot enough to dispose of bodies, etc... It's arguing from ignorance/stupidity, simply because they're so uninformed that it makes sense to them. "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams".

5.) Simple denial. This is an important one. While this poorly made MS paint jpeg with quotes from the Talmud and Ayatollah Khomeini is the gospel truth, all these endless studies are false propaganda. All the memoirs and records are forged. All the eye witness accounts are lies. This is the key part of their argument, to simply deny all contrary evidence and prop up your own weak arguments as a counter.

This is why /pol/beards are a cancer, not because they're doing anything harmful (nobody takes holocaust denial seriously unless you live in Sudan or Afghanistan), but because they promote anti-intellectualism and irrational thought processes.

>>2458692
If so, how did they actually set it up?

And Facism was already hated before the war began. You can clearly see it in public reactions to the Spanish Civil War.

>>2458708
>1.) Circumstantial nonsense. "A newspaper article in 1929 made a reference to 6 million Jews". This doesn't prove anything, but their argument is so weak to them they think it's the holy grail.

Wasn't it like 100 newspapers and other stuff from pre WWII?

>>2458702

War crimes like?

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>>2458690
The point is that 78 million dead number is not true.
It's Fake News.

https://monthlyreview.org/commentary/did-mao-really-kill-millions-in-the-great-leap-forward/

>>2458718
millions of civilians bombed to death?

>>2458720
That was in retaliation for the London Blitz.

>>2458720
In Palestine? Nigga what?

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>>2458720

Nothing the Axis hadn't already done to the Allies.

>it's millions now

Kek

>>2458732
Now that's a rubbish statistic.

>>2458732
>>2458728
doesn't change the fact that intentionally targetting civilians is a war crime.

>>2458719
>Joseph Ball lives in England and has been involved in political activism and trade union activism for twenty years
Yeah, that's not a commie propagandist at all.

>The point is that 78 million dead number is not true
In the Great Leap Forward alone maybe, but in his tenure it's easily true.

>>2458738
Except it's not. In fact, it's probably exaggerated for the Axis side. There were no genocidal policies against Germans or the Japanese.

>>2458739
The point is they already had Axis war crimes in doing the exact thing you describe to justify their own.

>>2458598
>Free speech is a meme
HE SAYS WHILE FREELY SPEAKING ON A MONGOLIAN PAPER FOLDING WEBSITE

Go fucking kill yourself you giant fucking hypocrite.

>>2458739
>Strategic bombing
>War crime in WW2

It was common tactic.

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>>2458746
>le Gommie propaganda!
>avoids the exhaustive primary and secondary source documentation to corroborate the article
>doesn't engage with the evidence or facts

Hmmm

>>2458762
He ignores mountains of primary source evidence and handwaves it away as capitalist propaganda. It's quite fair to do the same since he uses official PRC sources which we all know are Fair and Balanced.

I'm a smug self righteous liberal piece of shit haha these holocaust deniers really are stupid haha who listens to /pol/ any its for stormfags haha conspiracy theorists are idiots anyway

>>2458768

>I'm a massive stormnigger who thinks is being clever, please rape my face

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So, Holocaust believers of /his/. What do you think of Cole's documentary? I find it very convincing.

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>>2458765
So you'll reject or heavily scrutinize sources from socialist country censuses and production data because that's "Gommie propaganda" while accepting without question the numbers that capitalist states and pro-capitalist academics (who have an inherent material incentive to lie about these topics in order to continue to ride the parasitic gravy train where the capitalist classes monopolizes the wealth created by the working class and attacks any country that dares to refuse to be a slave to the West, like Syria or Libya or Iraq or Iran or DPRK etc, ans chooses instead to be socialist or economic nationalist) pull out of their ass or heavily distort while avoiding evidence that contradicts their pre-existing class interests.

K

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>>2458780
Why do leftists always gravitate to sexual degradation? It's like the first thing they say, every time

You're wrong [insert dehumanizing pornographic insinuation or insult] hahaha

kind of hypocritical... The right didn't have anything like that until this recent "cuck" bullshit. But the left has been obsessed with the right's penises and sexuality since the 60's.

>>2458748
So Russian civilians killed by their own governments count as allied deaths, then?

>>2458833

>he thinks ">I'm X, please rape my face" is a lefty thing and not just a 4chan meme

How new are you?

>>2458833
Go suck a dick you political flag waving wanker.

>>2458833
>hello fellow oldfaggots i am not new and did not come straight from reddit to 4chan
fuck off

>>2458838
Why would Stalin kill their own people during WW2? Most deaths are clearly from the actions of the Germans and their allies.

>>2458815
wasnt that guy a spy?

how could no one notice his deceiving ears? he has elf ears ffs. id get him executed right when i saw him.

>>2458838
What are you talking about?

>>2458845
He's a /pol/tard, so can't be more than 2 years

>>2458739
>stab a dude in a boxing match
>dude grabs knife that someone threw into the ring
>stabs the dude who stabbed him
>"WOW that's pretty fucked up dude, i can't believe that you could even possibly do that!"
Brill.

>>2458768
>liberal

It's hillarious considering holocaust deniers almost always defend themselves by liberal morality.

>>2458853

He's Garbo. He's famous for specifically NOT being a spy. He sent made up information to the Germans over the radio and they believed him.

>>2458768
I'm a smug self righteous PARTY piece of shit haha these PEOPLE THE PARTY HAVE CONFIRMED AS ENEMIES really are stupid haha who listens to OTHER POLITCAL VIEWS any its for THE ENEMY haha OTHER PEOPLE are idiots anyway

Congratulations, you've summed up all politics, want a cookie?

>>2458856
>/pol/
>posting anime

>>2458819
I'll take third party sources over either. Guess which points towards Mao having killed 78 million.

>>2458983
>third party sources
Which ones?
And you have to look at whether there is primary evidence and solid facts to back up whatever you're trying to claim.

Saying "Mao killed 800 bazillion people" out of thin air or pulling out of your ass, which is what the sources who claim such do, does not make it so.

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>>2458679
Top kek

>>2458594
>There is absolutely no film showing that 6,000,000 jews were murdered in human gas chambers by zyklon b
This is were you lose all credibility. You apparently have looked into so much evidence, and can therefore conclude, in your enlightened opinion, that the Holocaust didn't happen.
But then, why aren't you even aware of the fact that the 6 million is a total, for all murdered, not just in the chambers? Surely you would know this? Do you know what the Einsatzgruppen are? Do you know what Babi Yar is?
The only way to deny the Holocaust, is to be ignorant.

http://imgur.com/gallery/725A7

This link should be mandatory for all holocaust denial threads. It is every single possible counter-argument to every holocaust denial argument, backed up with sources. The only way to be a holocaust denier is to be a /pol/ faggot.

>>2459004
Your supposed "unbiased" links show third party sources with primary evidence that they handwave away as propaganda despite not being linked to the CIA or any such thing. Just because it fits your narrative doesn't mean it's true, especially when common historiography shits all over you.

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>>2459466
You don't need to keep posting your imgur account anon.

There are many major holes in the various arguments, I won't go after the ones that go back tit for tat such as why was a delousing agent used or what proof was there that it wasn't intended for delousing but genocide.

Just to let OP know, he shouldn't have made this bait thread to post his holocaust propaganda.

>>2459402
This post.
>Einsatzgruppen
Do you really think that they made a considerable dent in the 6 million, now 11 million number?
>Babi Yar estimates are 100,000 dead
>Out of 6 million
Not even 1 tenth of that number
And the supposed murderers? Einsatzgruppen. So you mention two names as if they were separate accounts when really (according to you and the holohaox purveyors) Babi Yar is an event caused by the Einsatzgruppen.
But guess what? THERE ARE NO BODIES!
Because surprise, the Germans EXHUMED them and then burnt them. So yes while you smartly point out that it was "not just in the chambers" that isn't the point- the point made is
1. The CREMATION RATES and
2. Lack of bodies AND ash

Continued in the next post

>>2460843

>implying Babi Yar is the only thing that the Einsatzgruppen did

>>2460843

>i could refute your arguments but i don't feel like it

typical nazi scum.

>>2460843
>Upon the Soviet liberation of Kiev in 1943, Soviet officials led Western journalists to the site of the massacres and allowed them to interview survivors. Among them were Bill Lawrence of The New York Times and Bill Downs of CBS. Downs described in a report to Newsweek what he had been told by one of the survivors, Efim Vilkis:

>However, even more incredible was the actions taken by the Nazis between August 19 and September 28 last. Vilkis said that in the middle of August the SS mobilized a party of 100 Russian war prisoners, who were taken to the ravines. On August 19 these men were ordered to disinter all the bodies in the ravine. The Germans meanwhile took a party to a nearby Jewish cemetery whence marble headstones were brought to Babii Yar [sic] to form the foundation of a huge funeral pyre. Atop the stones were piled a layer of wood and then a layer of bodies, and so on until the pyre was as high as a two-story house. Vilkis said that approximately 1,500 bodies were burned in each operation of the furnace and each funeral pyre took two nights and one day to burn completely. The cremation went on for 40 days, and then the prisoners, who by this time included 341 men, were ordered to build another furnace. Since this was the last furnace and there were no more bodies, the prisoners decided it was for them. They made a break but only a dozen out of more than 200 survived the bullets of the Nazi Tommy guns.

Read it aloud, it's almost comical.
>100,000 plus exhumed by 100 Russian POWS
>used Jewish headstones
>setting up a 2 story pyre of rotten corpses
>1,500 bodies took 2 days to burn (for reference modern cremating at the optimum temperature (1,400-1,800 degrees), the average weighted remains takes 2 to 2 ½ hours. 1,500 remains were cremated in 48-56
>Didn't reuse the same furnace (just remove the ashes) to kill the remaining POWS, instead they were "tommy gunned" so there was conveniently no survivors or other witnesses.

>>2460890
And how was this "all learned"? Testimony in the Nuremberg trials. Obtained by the Soviets. BUT IT GETS BETTER!

Babi Yar was also the site of a large mudslide in the spring of 1961. An earthen dam in the ravine had held loam pulp that had been pumped from the local brick factories for ten years without sufficient drainage. The dam collapsed after heavy rain, inundating the lower-lying Kurenivka neighborhood. The death toll was estimated to be between 1,500 and 2,000 people. According to Kusnetsov, this was part of a sustained and massive effort of the Soviets to obliterate the site, including what remained of the old Jewish burying ground.

Now why would the Soviets obliterate the site they spent so much time venerating and using?

>>2458590
>>2458578
both of these are fallacious responses.

>>2460915

Who's Kusnetsov?

>>2460932

>implying "kikepedia is run by jewish communist satanists" isn't the go to stormnigger reply whenever it is used to debunk their nonsense

>>2460950
>Use non-Jew friendly source
>PROPAGANDA
>Get your shit slapped using kikipedia >>2460890>>2460915 simply by breaking down the article
What now marxist?

>>2460961

>he thinks that is a shit slapping

Kek

>>2460915
>Now why would the Soviets obliterate the site they spent so much time venerating and using?

To get clay for brickworks perhaps? Contrary to your ignorant perception of SSSR, Russians never gave too much of a fuck about Babi Yar, since it was atrocity commited mainly against Jews and Jews were enemies. To prove my point just look how much time it took to erect first memorial.

>>2461047

Stormfaggots worship the holocaust more than anyone else and hold its sites up as some kind of holy landscape that must never be touched.

Can we just all admit that both Nazis and commies are scum that no one likes and both their ideologies should stay dead?

Hmmm I don't really know much about this but I need a question answered, why does the Holocaust get so much publicity, especially from the perspective of Jews, even though there have been far worse genocides in history?
Also why is it illegal to dig into this stuff in some countries?

>>2461099

>Hmmm I don't really know much about this but I need a question answered, why does the Holocaust get so much publicity, especially from the perspective of Jews, even though there have been far worse genocides in history?

Because it happened in Europe at a time when Europeans were supposed to have civilized out of such things and know better.

>Also why is it illegal to dig into this stuff in some countries?

Because American style attitudes towards free speech and research are hardly universal, and the countries that ban holocaust denial tend to ban lots of other things that are upsetting and disruptive to social order.

>>2461115
>Because it happened in Europe at a time when Europeans were supposed to have civilized out of such things and know better
But what about the purposeful starvation of Ukrain or the Chinese civilians the Japanese butchered, those both happened at the same time roughly

>>2461115

This. Civilised Europeans coming up with a cold, calculated industrial killing system is shocking. Spear throwing primates hacking each other to death with machetes is just Tuesday.

Actual holocaust denial laws are significantly less severe than mspaint infographics would have you believe.

>>2461133

>communists gonna commie
>foreign savages gonna savage

>>2461133

>But what about the purposeful starvation of Ukrain

Is also a big deal, except where you have tankie apologists.


>or the Chinese civilians the Japanese butchered,

Which did not happen in Europe, and thus had less of an impact. Most of the world, which was and remains dominated by either Europeans or their cultural descendants (U.S., Canada, Australia, etc.) expect a better standard of conduct out of modern white people than savages far away, either in time or in distance.

>>2461099
Why does the Holocaust get so much publicity, especially from the perspective of Jews, even though there have been far worse genocides in history?
>Only recent genocides matter
>Only European genocides matter, since brown and yellow people are irrelevant
>Out of European peoples only those west of iron curtain matter, since on the East there are ebul gommies
>Add industrial process of killing and voilá, you have the biggest crime eva

If you were not a victim of American education or some terrible disease of the mind you would not ask such stupid questions.

>>2461145
>>2461147
Seems like a bit of a double standard but ok

>>2461158
Of course it's a double standard. Since when is hypocrisy something new?

>>2458401
http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi
go ahead and read the evidence yourself

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>>2461156
>Why does the Holocaust get so much publicity
Because the Jews have owned the movie industry and by extension the media since it's inception, by either creation of their own studios or the theft of studios from non-Jews such as Zukor's and Lasky's hostile takeover of Paramount from W. W. Hodkinson. People can claim it is a meme but a quick google search shows that even today every major studio CEO is jewish.
This is probably the worst lie in America, that the press is "free" and that we lack state media and indoctrination. While we don't have state media and indoctrination, we clearly have special interest controlled media and indoctrination. It isn't no small wonder that there have been hundreds of movies made regarding the holocaust or WW2 Germany painted as a cartoonish villain.

>>2461156

Did you not read?

>Because it happened in Europe at a time when Europeans were supposed to have civilized out of such things and know better.

>>2461290
>civilized
That is a convenient rewording of "emasculated", "declawed", and "self-resignation".

>>2461195
>What evidence exists that six million Jews were not killed by the Nazis?

>The IHR says:

>Extensive forensic, demographic, analytical and comparative evidence demonstrates the impossibility of such a figure. The widely repeated "six million" figure is an irresponsible exaggeration.

>Nizkor replies:

>First of all: in the answer to this question, they claim to have "extensive evidence" to prove that something did not happen. Yet Holocaust-deniers often claim that they do not have to prove anything because, as they say, "it is impossible to prove a negative." Greg Raven has said this at least twice: once implicitly, and once explicitly:

EL OH EL, they can't even address the statement, so they then create a strawman to attack.

>>2458531
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/
It takes literally 10 seconds to find fact-based refutals of Holocaust denial

/pol/ please leave

>>2461328
Because the statement doesn't need adressing. They adress the actual claims, idiot.

>>2461313

What does that even mean at this point? These people fought in brutal wars and you're sitting at home calling them emasculated on a japanese imageboard.

>>2461391
Speak English
>>2461388
Another shitshow
>How do we know what the capacities of the cremation ovens at Auschwitz-Birkenau were?
>Holocaust deniers claim:
>There are no authentic German documents that address the capacity of the crematoria ovens in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

>The facts are:
>There is an (READ- ONE) authentic letter from Karl Bischoff, the head of the Central Building Administration in Auschwitz-Birkenau, to Hans Kammler in Berlin, which summarized the cremation capacity for the 52 muffles in Auschwitz-Birkenau for a 24-hour period.

For one, who are these "holocaust deniers" and how can this website claim "holocaust deniers claim" without providing sources, at least Nizkor does that. The question was never the capacity, but the fact that A. the math regarding cremation and the Jewish estimates are impossible. Likewise this page completely ignores that the supposed original crematoria didn't even exist- it was rebuilt by the Soviets supposedly after it's demolition from Jewish "accounts".

>>2458531
Fuck off /pol/.

>>2461409
Because the use of the term "civilization" is the same usage that applies to modern Western, European nations- blind submission as they are parceled out to foreigners, as their history is slowly eroded and replaced, as their inheritance is handed over to others. Just as the Germans were losing their identity during the Weimar period, had they remained "civilized" and not rose up they would have progressed faster into decay than they are doing now.
In ancient times peoples eradicated or emasculated their enemies wholly- the Persian cultural emasculation of of the Lydians comes to mind. The proper response to an enemy is always complete annihilation- you don't leave a remnant to exact revenge.

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>>2461452

>>2461474
Fuck you I laughed.

>>2458401

/pol/ simply brings out the inconvenient topic in the most outrageous way possible. The topic isn't even about acceptance of denial of the Holocaust - it doesn't matter. The focal point of contention is the aftereffects of its publicity and the effect it has on the Western Social Narrative.

Let me explain it from an outsider point of view. Holocaust, as the Western academia understand isn't that big of a topic in other parts of the world with their own horrific histories of genocides, whether consecutively or at once.
China's Nanjing under Japan officially states up to 300 000 - the topic is as hot in the Eastern Social Narrative as Holocaust is in the west. Chinese and Japanese youth banter as much as /pol/ on which account if correct and which is false and as to who is responsible and who should pay for it. The contention for islands in the Pacific always devolve down to WWII atrocities.
Artificially sanctioned famine of Bengal under British Empire not once but twice - 1770 and 1943 tolled at 15 million (11 and 4) - British Government has not yet officially provided either formal apology nor reparation. As other posters have argued, they don't care.
However, both of these actions directly and indirectly connected to the West did not result in the creation of a nation, restricted free speech rule (Anti-Semitism basically became is meme against everything Jewish related) and heavy reparation money. Whether West like it or not, their teeth were made blunt against any form of criticism. The state, West is in now is directly evolved out of the restriction of expression. Now that Muslim Monarchies have the same amount of money, they too are walking down the same path, making Islamic Blasphemy laws a reality in West. It will make Arabic Theocracy a taboo.

But people are always stuck-up in the smaller picture.

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>>2460843
>Do you really think that they made a considerable dent in the 6 million, now 11 million number?

yes. Also, it was always 11 million, youre just so uninformed about this topic you are obsessed with you didnt know this until recently.

>Not even 1 tenth of that number

They are responsible for 1 million total deaths. Babi Yar isnt the one and only thing they are responsible for and you are a fool to suggest that.

>THERE ARE NO BODIES!

are you an idiot? Theres pictures of the bodies all over the place. they arent even hard to find.

>1. The CREMATION RATES and

this back of the napkin arithmatic excuse has always been pathetic because it makes no sense.

>2. Lack of bodies AND ash


theres plenty of both. You deliberately ignoring them doesnt mean they dont exist you child.

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>>2458623
>What really ticks me off about anti-holocaust people is how sanctimonious you lot get that someone might dare even consider the other side.
"Come on guys, I just think that the mass genocide of Jews is all a Jewish conspiracy, it's a totally valid opinion"
You believe in something that is goes against virtually every piece of evidence and testimony made about the Holocaust, with nothing to support you but a couple of youtube documentaries, and somehow you pretend that you have some sort of legitimate argument that should be taken seriously and not just a load of rubbish made mostly by actual Neo-Nazis. You're the equivalent of a man with no legs complaining why he doesn't get to go on the local football team.

>>2458623


>REEEE Stop calling me out and just accept my shitty neo-nazi propaganda! Hes a fucking kike that spouts this dumb bullshit so that means hes right!

>>2458531
>And all the holocaust conspiracy documentaries are focused on facts, evidence, information, while all the holocaust conspiracy debunking stuff I've seen have the primary focus of character attacking holocaust deniers


>*calls everyone that points out the flaws in his conspiracy theory a kike

Why do stormcunts always act as if the criminalization of Holocaust denial is some kind of unique Jewish thing? Depending on where you go, you also go to jail for denying the Armenian and Rwandan genocides too, and I'm pretty sure Ukraine criminalizes denial of the Holodomor as well.

>>2461624
Cambodia also has a law about it.

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why would top nazis write to each other about the best ways to castrate jewish inmates?

>>2461546
>napkin arithmetic

By your claim the Einsatzgruppen had killed only 1 million of the 11 million, leaving 10 million to be eradicated in the 5 years of the war
That means Nazi Germany killed 2 million per year via gassing, NOW that is me being generous and ignoring the fact most camps weren't even operational well into 1941. So lets get this out of the way shall we!

A quick calculation done shows that 5,479 Jews were killed daily- that is if all death camps existed at the beginning of the war and were operating at maximum capacity. 228 every hour. 4 every minute. Now there were only 12 major extermination camps, when I say major I am using that term loosely. I will not count concentration camps because quite simply they did not have the supposed gas chambers.
Mathematically each camp killed a Jew every 3 minutes.
Now lets discuss modern cremation via gas- not wood. An industrial furnace is required to be to generate temperatures of 870–980 °C (1,600–1,800 °F) to ensure disintegration of the corpse, which at max speed may be as fast as one hour per 50 kg (100 lb) of body weight.
It takes on hour using modern technology and gas (remember we're discussing resource scarce WW2 Germany) to cremate a child- not even a full adult.

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>>2461637
>That means Nazi Germany killed 2 million per year via gassing

Gassing isnt the only way people die anon. LITERALLY no one has ever claimed this, even in the camps.

Niggers in africa killed half a million people with machetes in a month, so you trying to claim a fully industrial Germany killing 6 million over the course of years is pure nonsense.

they put multiple bodies in the furnaces at the time. Also, why would they even have furnaces at the camps unless they were expecting a high amount of casualties?

>>2461637
Modern cremation requires everything to be reduced to fine ash to be presented to the loved ones. Nazi cremation involved burning as many bodies as possible so as to reduce their volume and sterilize them

It's like asking why is it slower to make a cake in 2017 than to bake a blob of dough in 1944

>>2461637

>he thinks that all the Jews who died in concentration camps were gassed and only gassed

For fucks sake, you don't even know what you're trying to debunk.

>>2461637
>>2461637
> I STILL have no idea what I'm talking about, the post

The 11 million total killed is non military personnel deliberately killed by Nazi Germany FROM ALL CAUSES, not just Einsatzgruppen + gas. This is ultra basic, definitions that you'd find if you picked up a cursory work on the subject. That's not just extermination camps, but everyone deliberately shot or starved across all of Europe, in addition to things like gassing.

So the bulk of your post does nothing but expose your ignorance.

Oh, by the way, they had faster than 1hour cremations back in 1875. https://archive.org/details/cremationdead00eassgoog

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>>2461637

>>2461655
>Also, why would they even have furnaces at the camps unless they were expecting a high amount of casualties?

Let's reformulate: why would they have FOUR crematoria each with capacity to burn a thousand people a day, AND plans to build a new one, in Auschwitz alone?

Seriously, why would they need the capacity to burn the whole camp population multiple times over in a single month?

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Reminder that the there is a Nazi State produced film called "The Eternal Jew" which is all about shitting on jews and literally ends with Hitler saying he will destroy the jewish race in Europe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNk_osZWScw&t=16s&spfreload=10&bpctr=1488762332

>>2461685

>in before "that's taken out of context" or "Hitler didnt say that, the secret mossad conspiracy edited the real film!"

>>2461655
Cremation is the only guaranteed way to dispose of diseased bodies in order to prevent spread of infectious diseases such as typhus or influenza.
>>2461658
If this was the case there would be greater ash fields to be found and would require more fuel which resource starved Germany had none of.
>>2461661
No one was gassed in concentration camps anon, only extermination camps. And we're discussing cremation, not gassing. Try to keep up.
>>2461666
Hi satan, you L I T E R A L L Y stated the Einsatzgruppen killed 1 million, so I removed 1 million from the equation, which I admit was generous.
>That link
Post the screenshot from the page where the statement is made.
>>2461667
Documentation is easily falsified.

>>2461695
Too late, these faggots are capable of attempt to squirm away a Himmler speech outright admitting the European Jews are being exterminated, imagine this one.

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>>2458717
Not even close

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>>2461696
>Cremation is the only guaranteed way to dispose of diseased bodies in order to prevent spread of infectious diseases such as typhus or influenza.

no it isnt. Again, why would they even have them unless they were expecting a large amount of casualties? how come the US japanese camps had nothing even close to that?


>Documentation is easily falsified.

its not. Heres another treat for you

>>2461696
You know there is this huge-ass river near Auschwitz, right? Good luck finding 60 year old ash scattered in a river.

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>>2461712

>>2461696
greater ash fields compared to what? Who can tell us how much ash mass body burning produces?

More fuel compared to what?

>>2461696
I'm not trying to be a dick but any time in a Harrison debate you say "documentation is easily falsified", you've lost the debate

>>2461696

>implying "concentration camp" isn't the generic term
>implying you didn't open your previous comments with talk about it being gassing
>>2461637
>That means Nazi Germany killed 2 million per year via gassing

>>2461721
>Harrison
*historical
damn phoneposting

>>2461696
>Documentation is easily falsified.

>whatever evidence you produce is easily falsified

Why is it false in this case?

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>>2461696

>Hi satan, you L I T E R A L L Y stated the Einsatzgruppen killed 1 million, so I removed 1 million from the equation, which I admit was generous.

First off, it's hardly generous.

http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/hol/eg/ussr/hegu-odt.html

Secondly, your focus on the camps is still asinine and wrong, because the total is again, not Einsatzgruppen + gas chambers.

>Post the screenshot from the page where the statement is made.

Here you go.

>>2461685
Did you watch the movie?
>0:59 Jews will just have to get used to the idea of performing some respectable constructive activity as others do or sooner or later they'll face trouble they never dreamed of
Oy vey dey gonna make us actually work and not rely on banking and film!
>1:13 Should the international finance Jews push people into another world war the result will not be a victory of Jewry but the destruction of the Jewish race in Europe
That is a threat to the Jews that pretty much explains itself.
Thanks anon.
>In the middle of the 19th century, a number of German Jews founded investment banking firms which later became mainstays of the industry. Most prominent Jewish banks in the United States were investment banks, rather than commercial banks.[12] Jonathan Knee postulates that Jews were forced to focus on the development of investment banks because they were excluded from the commercial banking sector.[13] In many cases, the efforts of Jewish immigrants to start banks was enabled due to the substantial support of their Jewish banking connections in Europe.[14]

Several major banks were started following the mid-19th century by Jews, including Goldman Sachs (founded by Samuel Sachs and Marcus Goldman), Kuhn Loeb (Solomon Loeb and Jacob H. Schiff), Lehman Brothers (Henry Lehman), Salomon Brothers, and Bache & Co.(founded by Jules Bache)

Everyone knows that financial interests dominated WW1, financial interests dominate wars today.

>>2461707
>They just threw it in the river, we don't need to supply evidence! But here are some Soviet discovered documents and Jewish testimonies, that should be enough!

>>2461725

It's the only defence they have.

>where is the proof? I'm not a stormfaggot, I just want to find the truth.
>here's the proof
>t...that's f...fake

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>>2461741

soviets werent the first to discover the camps.

you stormfags need a new shill line

>2461741
>They just threw it in the river, we don't need to supply evidence!
*More evidence
But yeah

>>2461725
Where is the source?
>>2461734
Excellent, thank you for providing that page. Now delete it since it refers to a device not used by the Germans, thank you!

>>2458563
>piles of clothes
what great evidence of the typhus epidemic and the need to confiscate clothing and delouse people before putting them into a densely concentrated camp to live in

>>2461749

>confiscate clothing
>keep it around

Why didn't the Germans burn the clothes and shoes and other stuff that might also be infected?

>>2458571
it's logical to think of murder and the like to be counter productive to society, hence why it would be banned

I can't find any logic that bans the investigation of a historical event other than that something's off about it, and that it is keeping a truth from being released.

>>2461706
>no it isnt
What other method would exist anon? Its not like the Nazis had vats of acid to melt diseased bodies in, although that would fit in with the fiction being presented.
>Korherr Report

>Korherr was never a member of the SS[4] and denied all knowledge of the Holocaust, saying that he had “only heard about exterminations after the collapse in 1945.”[5]

In a letter he sent to the German magazine Der Spiegel in July 1977, Korherr said that he had not written the report on Himmler’s order”[4] and that the “statement that I had mentioned that over a million Jews had died in the camps of the Generalgouvernement and the Warthegau through special treatment is also inaccurate. I must protest against the word ‘died’ in this context. It was the very word ‘Sonderbehandlung’ [‘special treatment’] that led me to call the RSHA by phone and ask what this word meant. I was given the answer that these were Jews who were settled in the Lublin district.”

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>>2461748
>Where is the source?

are you retarded? look at the file name

>>2461757
Please provide a source for legislation banning Holocaust investigation.

>>2461748
Will you be deleting all references to modern cremation such as>>2461637
Since those are also not talking about contemporary German devices?

Do you have an explanation as to why, in order to make your "theory" work, German contemporary ovens would have to be less efficient than designs some 70 years older at that point?

>>2461757
Yeah. That is also why denial of the Armenian Genocide is also banned in most of the countries that ban Holocaust denial. And why Ukraine banned Holodomor denial. And Rwanda genocide denial. And Cambodia Khmer Genocide denial.

It is just correct to ban apologetics for mass murderers.

>>2461745
>The Gerstein Report

>While some aspects of Gerstein's report include false statements attributed to Odilo Globocnik, as well as inaccurate claims regarding the total number of Jews gassed at Holocaust locations where he was not an eyewitness, Gerstein's claim that gassing of Jews occurred at Belzec is independently corroborated by SS-Standartenführer Wilhelm Pfannenstiel's testimony given at the Belzec trials,[9][10] as well as by the accounts of other witnesses that can be found in Gitta Sereny's Into That Darkness, a biography of one-time Treblinka commandant Franz Stangl.

>Holocaust historian Christopher Browning has written: "Many aspects of Gerstein's testimony are unquestionably problematic. [In making] statements, such as the height of the piles of shoes and clothing at Belzec and Treblinka, Gerstein himself is clearly the source of exaggeration. Gerstein also added grossly exaggerated claims about matters to which he was not an eyewitness, such as that a total of 25 million Jews and others were gassed. But in the essential issue, namely that he was in Belzec and witnessed the gassing of a transport of Jews from Lwow, his testimony is fully corroborated .... It is also corroborated by other categories of witnesses from Belzec."[8] Historian Robin O'Neil noted that Gerstein's data presented at face value about the enormous capacity of the gas chambers i.e. "four times 750 persons" has no grounds in reality.[11]

>>2461760
>What other method would exist anon?

burrying them. Again, WHY WOULD THEY BE EXPECTING THIS MUCH DEATH IN THE FIRST PLACE IF THEY DINDU NUFFIN?

>>2458717
Between 1870 and 1939, 100s of articles cited "6 million Jews" as victims of pogroms and starvation in the manner modern charities periodically cite false or presumptuous statistics to advertise a cause.
It is circumstantial evidence that in its longevity and regularity becomes real evidence.

>>2461776
Name these hundreds of articles.

>>2458748
Yes there was. It was largely however just "Germans" in "Allied" countries like Yugoslavia, the Balts, Romania and Poland.

>>2461766
I won't since they refer to the necessary fuel and temperatures required for those times, whereas the crematoria in Auschwitz had none of that. Even your "evidence" corroborates with mine since it used a special machine and not wood burning ovens to make those times.
EVEN THEN it states it took roughly 40 minutes per body which still fails to meet the mathematical requirements for the proposed figures.

>>2461772
>, Gerstein's claim that gassing of Jews occurred at Belzec is independently corroborated by SS-Standartenführer Wilhelm Pfannenstiel's testimony given at the Belzec trials,[9][10] as well as by the accounts of other witnesses that can be found in Gitta Sereny's Into That Darkness, a biography of one-time Treblinka commandant Franz Stangl.

wow, you sure proved me wrong! Who would have guessed he didnt count the total number of victims perfectly just by looking at them all!


>such as the height of the piles of shoes and clothing at Belzec and Treblinka, Gerstein himself is clearly the source of exaggeration

Again, who gives a shit about the height of the shoe pile?

>But in the essential issue, namely that he was in Belzec and witnessed the gassing of a transport of Jews from Lwow, his testimony is fully corroborated .... It is also corroborated by other categories of witnesses from Belzec."

did you even bother reading what you just copy pasted?

>>2461773
Burying them doesn't ensure the disease is eradicated.
>rats
>fleas
>other scavengers
>water contamination
>microorganisms from putrefaction

>>2461778
http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaust-And-The-Number-6,000,000-Before-The-Nuremberg-Trials-Began.php
I recently found this. I have more (that I remember for particularly ridiculous claims) on a hard drive not currently with me. These were saved from a 4chan thread and my own research in 2013 so please don't think you're seeing Stormfront. I'm a "numbers finagler" in the jargon, not a denier.

>>2461787
>did you even bother reading what you just copy pasted?
>eyewitness testimony
>eyewitness testimony
>eyewitness testimony
>obtained under threat and duress

>>2461792
You didn't actually answer his question on why they had FOUR SETS of crematoria with the capacity for thousands a day.

>>2461797
>>obtained under threat and duress

What evidence do you have that it was obtained through threat and duress?

>>2461794

>it's from 4chan not Stormfront

For fucks sake...

>>2461798
Where in Auschwitz? The Soviets built them.

>>2461805
>4chan is one person
>Stormfront isn't regularly argued against, even in leftist bogeyman "/pol/", who is one person
Delet urself

>>2461794
>http://balder.org/judea/Six-Million-140-Occurrences-Of-The-Word-Holocaust-And-The-Number-6,000,000-Before-The-Nuremberg-Trials-Began.php

This is not evidence. Evidence would be the actual pages of the papers cited, as opposed to unverifiable transcriptions. The last image has been debunked already here: >>2461703

>>2461804
>Fritz Sauckel, head of the German wartime labor mobilization program, was sentenced to death at the main Nuremberg trial. An important piece of evidence presented to the Tribunal by the US prosecution was an affidavit signed by the defendant. (Nuremberg document 3057-PS.) It turned out that Sauckel had put his signature to this self-incriminating statement, which had been presented to him by his captors in finished form, only after he was bluntly told that if he hesitated, his wife and children would be turned over to the Soviets. "I did not stop to consider, and thinking of my family, I signed the document," Sauckel later declared.

>Hans Fritzsche, another defendant in the main Nuremberg trial, was similarly forced to sign a self-damning confession while he was a prisoner of the Soviet secret police in Moscow. (Nuremberg document USSR-474.)

>Nuremberg defendant Julius Streicher, who was eventually hanged because he published a sometimes sensational anti-Jewish weekly paper, was brutally mistreated following his arrest. He was badly beaten, kicked, whipped, spat at, forced to drink saliva and burned with cigarettes. His genitals were beaten. Eyebrow and chest hair was pulled out. He was stripped and photographed. Fellow defendant Hans Frank was savagely beaten by two black GIs shortly after his arrest. August Eigruber, former Gauleiter of Upper Austria, was mutilated and castrated at the end of the war.

>Josef Kramer, former commandant of both the Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz-Birkenau camps, and other defendants in the British-run "Belsen" trial, were reportedly also tortured, some of them so brutally that they begged to be put to death.

>>2461808
You're suggesting the Soviets built the crematoria in Krema II, III, IV and VI, forged the tech specs and the written orders for the devices?

>>2461812

>le X board is one person meme
>what is board culture?
>what is 4chan being a well known shitpile no matter which side of a given argument you are on?

>>2461328
i find it very funny you try to claim they can't address the statement when they very clearly provide a large body of evidence in response to the question above and continually provide evidence in response to the questions below

>>2461808

>because someone build a reconstruction, it means the original never existed

Really clutching at straws now.

>>2458401
>Is /pol/ right about the holocaust?
No.

>>2461817
Precisely.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/crematoria-and-gas-chambers-at-auschwitz-birkenau
From a Jewish source as well.
Do me a favor and only ready through it ignoring the figures- every crematoria at most associated buildings/bunkers were somehow destroyed and non-existent when the Soviets arrived. They were all rebuilt by the Soviets according to eyewitness accounts and found documents :^)

>>2461824
Board culture died finally in ~2014. Anyone here longer than that would tenuously agree. Regular phoneposting and the decline of reports about 4chan being a haven for "darkweb" and CP activities made the boards fluid and various in their posters to the point that cohesive culture is no longer a thing. There are repetitive threads, nothing else.
>>2461813
Uncited infographic with spinets is evidence moreso than a .org with links to the whole documents?
>>2461808
Now THAT is unfounded information.

>>2461839

>somehow destroyed

Almost like someone was trying to cover up what they had done...

>>2461816
>source: Institute for Historical Review

Good lord.

Also, the "Nuremberg documents" are the defendant's statements (in Sauckel's case), which by itself is not evidence (you might as well say Goering had no guilt because he pleaded not guilty), or were discarded by the court (in Fritzsche's case, who was acquitted).

You provide no citation for Streicher nor Kramer.

>>2458401

>Is /pol/ right

No. Just a meme factory at this point.

>>2461839
The Birkenau crematoria were never rebuilt. They lie in ruins right now. Nowhere on the webpage it says that the four Birkenau crematoria (the ones with the thousand people daily capacity) were rebuilt.

You are literally making shit up at this point.

>>2461418
>Likewise this page completely ignores that the supposed original crematoria didn't even exist- it was rebuilt by the Soviets supposedly after it's demolition from Jewish "accounts".
>the supposed original crematoria didn't even exist

https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab10-gas-chamber-fake/

We have the blueprints for the crematoria, as well as Nazi and Jewish testimonies saying that it was used as such. Bischoff mentions burnings at Krema I in his document.

>>2461855
>no citation for Streicher
>W. Maser, Nuremberg: A Nation on Trial (1979), pp. 51-52, 47, 60.; K. Stimely, "The Torture of Julius Streicher," Journal of Historical Review, Spring 1984, pp. 106-119.; "Streicher Case Opens," The Times (London), April 27, 1946, p. 3.; Rupert Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 238-239.; Montgomery Belgion, Victor's Justice (Regnery, 1949), p. 90.

>or Kramer
>Nuremberg "Case 8" presiding judge Wyatt took note of the charges of torture. "During the course of the trial," the American jurist declared, "several witnesses, including some defendants, who made affidavits that were offered as evidence by the prosecution, testified that they were threatened, and that duress of a very improper nature was practiced by an interrogator." Nuremberg Military Tribunals, Trials of the War Criminals ... ("green series,"/ Washington, DC: 1949-1953), NMT, vol. 15, p. 879.

>>2461873
>We have the blueprints for the crematoria, as well as Nazi and Jewish testimonies saying that it was used as such.

But not the actual cremtoria.

I guess I should trust some Jews and some German NCOs who had their sentences commuted. And "found" documentation.

>>2461883
Yeah, I expected primary sources on Streicher. Sorry for high expectations.

On Kramer, again, this is just the defendant's accounts. You have shown yourself to be skeptical of this kind of thing.

>>2461891

Why wouldn't you trust them unless you were a stormnigger?

>>2461855
Why don't you actually read the NMT? As in the other contradicting testimonies that none of your infographs mention?

>>2461891
>I guess I should trust some Jews and some German NCOs who had their sentences commuted. And "found" documentation.

Considering you haven't presented no evidence contrary to the overwhelming evidence on the Einsatzgruppen killings, the gas chambers and everything else, yeah, you don't have to, but you would be an idiot if you didn't.

But everyone here knows you just don't care, you just hate Jews.

>>2461900
>unless you were a stormnigger
What kind of person lacks the awareness of the billions made off of a carefully conceived lie?
Should I just trust the Jews who have made billions off of holocaust movies alone? Who rely on the existence of the holocaust to justify their exceptions? To distract from their tribalism, nepotism, and greed?
Should I trust the Soviets who had just taken possession of lands who viewed them as invaders? Who needed to crush the memory of fascism should it be used in revolutions against the USSR, to demonize allies to the National Socialists- the Iron Cross and the Iron Guard, the Utashe and the Galicia Legion in order to cause the public to distance itself from nationalism which was a threat?
The English who knew that eventually, should the Nazis be deemed neutrally moral as the Germans were in WW1, that history would not view them as liberators but agitators?
Everyone had something to gain from demonizing the Nazis, people think Versaille was the real crime, but it was merely a blueprint for the next sentence against Germany. We can see this today whenever a German voices even concern over the refugee crisis, they are a Nazi. If a German shows any national pride they are a Nazi.

>>2458658
>>2458646
>going to be executed either way
>keep it simple just so they don't torture you until you change your mind

use your brain for once

>>2461735
>If there's another world war the result will be the destruction of the Jewish race in Europe
>another world war happens

Can you connect the dots?

>>2461945
Why didn't they take him at his word, or rather did they and they knew this would be an inroads into removing a pest. That is break an egg to make an omelette.

>>2461936

>going to be executed anyway
>decide to let the world think you are guilty of the most monstrous of crimes

They stuck to it even as the rope was tightening around their necks. Why didn't they scream out that they were innocen in their last moments?

>>2461891
>But not the actual cremtoria.

It was captured on photograph by Allied reconnoisance aircraft, and they did find the ruins of it where itwas supposed to be.

But of course, the fact that a building got destroyed in the middle of a war means it must've never existed at all. I suppose the Summer Palace was never a thing either, since there's nothing left of it.

>>2461953
>Why didn't they take him at his word

Because the man had never kept his word before. Remember the Munich agreement?

>>2461969
>It was captured on photograph by Allied reconnaissance aircraft

You mean a tiny speck on a image taken from thousands of feet in the air?

>let me now offer a false equivalence to prove I am right

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>>2461983

Holy fucking shit, you're actually disputing how reconnaissance photos work? It's ALL tiny specks!

Pic highly related.

File: Krema I.jpg (163KB, 1540x924px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2461983
>You mean a tiny speck on a image taken from thousands of feet in the air?

Not even close to a tiny speck. You can literally just Google "Krema I" to find the relevant image.

>let me now offer a false equivalence to prove I am right
How is it false? you´re just saying that because the building was destroyed before the Soviets found it, that it never existed. You could easily say the same about the Qing finding the ruins of the Summer Palace.

>>2462002
>pic related
How is a pic from the Cold War with far more advanced technology related? You're batting at a 0 right now.
>>2462008
Oh I see, thanks. Those clearly are crematoria. Clearly.

File: Nazi blueprints.jpg (555KB, 1814x1104px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2462008
Not to forget that the photo fits the blueprints found of the crematorium.

>>2462014
>ask for evidence
>t-t-that doesn't count because x
>ask for evidence of x
>it gets provided

And so it goes.

Stormkikes will never learn.

>>2461785


>I won't since they refer to the necessary fuel and temperatures required for those times, whereas the crematoria in Auschwitz had none of that.

What on earth makes you think that?

> Even your "evidence" corroborates with mine since it used a special machine and not wood burning ovens to make those times.

The crematoria in Auschwitz were coke burners, not wood burners. Wood was primarily used for open air pyres.

>EVEN THEN it states it took roughly 40 minutes per body which still fails to meet the mathematical requirements for the proposed figures.

Your proposed figures are built around a ridiculous misapprehension that roughly 10 million people needed to be burned in 12 or so camps, in any case, Auschwitz alone had the crematory capacity for roughly 4 million people, nevermind anywhere else.

https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/dd91098a03.jpg

4756 a day for 365 days is 1.7 million per year.

>>2462014

>how is a reconnaissance photograph related to a discussion about reconnaissance photograph???
>it has far more advanced technology, but everything is still tiny specks

Are you being deliberately dense at this point?

>>2462014
>Those clearly are crematoria. Clearly.
Indeed. The fact that we have the blueprints of the building that claim it to be a crematoria, Nazi officers claiming it was a crematoria, inmates and Sonderkommandos claiming it was a crematoria, and the fact that this building existed in German records as "Krema I" tells us that it was a crematoria. and now you even have physical proof the building existed.

Is that enough evidence for you, or is reality just too inconvenient?

Gee, it sure is /pol/ around here

>>2462043

Hey, don't complain. When we're being /pol/ with dates, at least we're not being /b/ with dates.

>>2462038
I could put a pic similar to that from the same altitude of a high school complex, circle three buildings, and tell you that it was an image of crematoria and you would repost them every day all day.
>>2462037
Because it isn't proving that the images are what that anon claims they are. Its an unrelated image, you're point regarding my statement that those images are indecipherable and could be anything isn't made and my point remains.
>They're cremtoria
You can't prove that, all you can state is that they are buildings SOMEONE CLAIMED are crematoria.

>>2462064

I never said anything about them definitely being crenatoria or them being a school playground. I'm pointing out that that all reconnaissance photography is based on analysing " tiny specks" and therefore handwaving reconnaissance photos away because they're "tiny specks" is moronic.

I want this thread to serve as an example for any future dumbass who decides to go down the drain arguing with a Holocaust denier.

>>2462084
Just as moronic as claiming you know their purpose without having evaluated the actual building.

File: Gilbert_Stuart_Williamstown_Portrait_of_George_Washington.jpg (601KB, 1588x1932px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2462064

>someone claimed

Then the entire field of history is in disrepute, because it's ALL based on what someone claimed happened.

Is this a painting of George Washington? How do you know? Because someone claimed it was?

>>2462086
You don't argue with people to change their minds. You argue with people to sway the minds of anyone who is watching the debate. We know we'll never convince that hard core of stormblrs; they're not grounded in reason anyway. But when you go to a thread like this and see a guy make a fool of himself over and over, you can sway the undecided.

>>2462087

>you need to analyse the actual building when you have photographs, plans and eye witness testimonials saying what it was used for

Not that it matters, you could have the building and no witnesses, then suddenly the goalposts would move again and eye witness accounts would become the all important evidence.

>>2462090
Quit begging the question anon. No one has anything to gain through lying about a painting of George Washington.
>Because someone claimed it
Well for one thing, unlike the Auschwitz Crematoria, we actually have the original.

>>2462107

>none has anything to gain from the founding of the most powerful nation on Earth

Wew lad

>>2462107

>the original

Hoe do you know it's original? Because some (((((art dealer)))) told you it was?

>>2462111
The foundation of America isn't based upon a single painting, whereas the foundation of the holocaust requires crematoria intended for extermination, otherwise they were merely interment camps. Which is what they were.

>>2462107
Quit spreading your fucking yank propaganda. There was no such thing as George Washington. The only witnesses we ever have to his supposed nobility and wisdom are fucking eagles who needed to justify a reason to break away from their rightful sovereigns.

>We have the original

Oh really? Where is this supposed "original" George Washington? I bet you're going to post to some random gravestone somewhere, which could be fucking anyone.

>>2462120

>implying the holocaust is based solely on a few sets of crematoria and not the mountains of other evidence, of which crematoria play a tiny part

>>2462116
First off, you all lost the evidence arguments, the calculations, so now you've turned toward the arguing process to find some flaw. See, you're not selling me a painting, you're trying to sell the holocaust, like a Jew would sell a painting. Or a bad investment. Or a war in the Middle East.
But you're not selling a painting, and Washington's existence has both numerous physical and anecdotal evidence, unlike the Auschwitz crematoria his house in Mount Vernon is still standing. But lets say it was all a fabrication. Washington is a creation of the state in order to sell loyalty- which is a better argument than your jewish art dealer, just to put this out there debate is not your skill set. But I'll humor this poor example.
I live in America, I can experience the political process, I speak English which Washington was a native speaker himself. I can culturally and politically feel the impact of the man.
Lets apply this argument to the Jews then. Immediately afterwards they emigrated en masse to Israel mostly, afterwards they Jews would genocide Palestinians, force them into ghettos in Gaza, enter in numerous wars and become increasingly jingoistic and proud. There is no cultural or moral stamp on them at all of an experienced holocaust, if anything they mirror the Nazis they so hated. While accussing the Nazis of Lebensraum they in turn would demolition Palestinian homes for settlements. They would spit on the German's belief of the master race yet believe they had right's to their "chosen land".
So no anon. That makes a poor comparison.

>>2462171
I still don't see a single proof Washington existed in your post

>>2462171

>First off, you all lost the evidence arguments, the calculations,
ahh, the old "samefag" argument. You do realize there are at least four different people trashing your shit, right? And that your calculations are based on parameters that you made up and nobody else agrees with, such as "All non-einsatzgruppen killings were done in the death camps by gas".

>so now you've turned toward the arguing process to find some flaw.

No, we're making fun of your ridiculous double standards concerning evidence.

>But you're not selling a painting, and Washington's existence has both numerous physical and anecdotal evidence,

Like the holocaust! Which is why we find your insistence that the Holocaust didn't happen, but that Washington did exist, hypocritical.

>his house in Mount Vernon is still standing.

"His" house? How do you know it was his house? Show me something, and by the way, no witnesses, since they're unreliable.

>I live in America, I can experience the political process, I speak English

So you're a deluded eagle cuck who is biased. We'll ignore you from now on.

>I can culturally and politically feel the impact of the man.

You mean, you can culturally and politically be brainwashed by your propaganda.

>Lets apply this argument to the Jews then. Immediately afterwards they emigrated en masse to Israel mostly


Wrong again!

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

>fterwards they Jews would genocide Palestinians, force them into ghettos in Gaza, enter in numerous wars and become increasingly jingoistic and proud. There is no cultural or moral stamp on them at all of an experienced holocaust,

You mean, something like "Never again"? Or "This is how the world works and it's better to be the oppressor than the oppressed"? Gee, how's that for a cultural impact?

>>2462211
>4 people
How would you know anon, unless you were coordinating with 3 other people to bait on this board.
>samefag argument
As opposed to a newfag who doesn't understand the term samefag?
>So you're a deluded eagle cuck who is biased. We'll ignore you from now on.
So there are 4 of you, probably all Jewish too. Fucking lel, I gotta screenshot this one.
>You mean, something like "Never again"? Or "This is how the world works and it's better to be the oppressor than the oppressed"?

You ARE Jews! You literally are crying out as you strike them!

>>2462171

>his house is there

How do you know it's his house? Because someone told you it was? Protip: it's also restored and has reconstructed buildings.


>physical and anecdotal evidence

Faked or made up by people who want to sell you books and booze at the gift shop.

>cultural and political feel of the man

So literally "Washington is real in my mind"?

>>2462236
>How would you know anon, unless you were coordinating with 3 other people to bait on this board.

Because of the multiple replies to most of your posts, as well as the differing writings styles contained therein.

>Bizarre ad hominems.

Really anon, step up your game.

First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.

Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck.

I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying.

>>2462236

>everyone who argues against me is part of a coordinated group
>totally not anonymous strangers who think I'm a moron

Seek medical help. Seriously.

>>2461797

you just posted a source saying what he was saying was true, with the exceoption of the height of the pile of shoes and the exact number

great job stormfag

>>2462255
How did he know there were 4 others anon, you can't let your temper get the best of you and slip up like that
>You do realize there are at least four different people trashing your shit, right?
>Which is why we find your insistence that the Holocaust didn't happen, but that Washington did exist, hypocritical.
>We'll ignore you from now on.

Ya dun goofed schlomo

>>2462269

>being able to count replies and different writing/posting styles

Jewish magic, clearly.

Nice to see that stormniggers are still so easily triggered that they out themselves.

>>2462269
>he couldn't possibly have guessed a number of posters based on replies and style
>it must be a coordinated attack against me by international judaism
take your anti-psychotics lad

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>>2462269

File: 1461680917192.png (629KB, 960x943px) Image search: [Google]

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The Holocaust never happened.

But it will.

>>2462284
Sure, once Iran finally arms itself with nukes as Netanyahu claimed they would. In 1996. And every year since.

>>2461546
>it was always 11 million

I thought the five million non Jewish deaths is accepted as greatly exaggerated? Can you point to the inaccuracies here?

http://www.jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians

>The “5 million” has driven Holocaust historians to distraction ever since Wiesenthal started to peddle it in the 1970s. Wiesenthal told the Washington Post in 1979, “I have sought with Jewish leaders not to talk about 6 million Jewish dead, but rather about 11 million civilians dead, including 6 million Jews.”

>Yehuda Bauer, an Israeli Holocaust scholar who chairs the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, said he warned his friend Wiesenthal, who died in 2005, about spreading the false notion that the Holocaust claimed 11 million victims – 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews.

>“I said to him, ‘Simon, you are telling a lie,’” Bauer recalled in an interview Tuesday. “He said, ‘Sometimes you need to do that to get the results for things you think are essential.’”

>Bauer and other historians who knew Wiesenthal said the Nazi hunter told them that he chose the 5 million number carefully: He wanted a number large enough to attract the attention of non-Jews who might not otherwise care about Jewish suffering, but not larger than the actual number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust, 6 million.

>>2458644
The part where jews deserved it but it didn't happen

>>2462284
/thread

Hey, /d/ here.

Normally I don't go for this stuff, but seeing this subject being treated with (some) respect and (iffy)research made me respect this lil hate machine we call 4chan but a lil more than yesterday.

So, I'm no history source expert, but here are some issues I've had with what I've seen so far here:

To address why the holocaust is so talked about compared with other, worse atrocities: most genocides, from what I've seen, have governments try to cover it up. The circumstances surrounding the holocaust allows for citizens and state officials to discuss it, that no one wants to surrender that chance to deniers

Also, I see people saying that because some made profits off it, that proves the 'caust didn't happen. To me, that's more people being scumbags than proof it didn't happen.

Finally, how exactly does an ideology that was founded on "kill all the Jews" NOT have some sort of death camps or genocide machine, or something? There is no way a state that focused SO MUCH on removal of minorities would NOT invest in some state function dedicated to the removal of said minorities.

and that's my 2-cents

>>2462388
>Finally, how exactly does an ideology that was founded on "kill all the Jews" NOT have some sort of death camps or genocide machine, or something? There is no way a state that focused SO MUCH on removal of minorities would NOT invest in some state function dedicated to the removal of said minorities.

also, see

>>2461685

>>2462345
It's actually more like 14-17 million total if you include civilian reprisals.

>>2462388
>Finally, how exactly does an ideology that was founded on "kill all the Jews" NOT have some sort of death camps or genocide machine, or something? There is no way a state that focused SO MUCH on removal of minorities would NOT invest in some state function dedicated to the removal of said minorities.

It wasn't founded on it, it was rather a problem. The state itself was founded on German identity.

Why would a nation involved in total war waste the resources- the railways, the fuel, the men for guards, the electricity, the wood and cement, during a life and death struggle just to eradicate a slave labor force?

>>2462446
Why would a nation involved in total war send troops to fight Russians in the winter wearing the equivalent of Hawaiian shirts and shorts? Seems like either that's a lie or the German leadership had some pretty irrational ideas at times

>>2462388
>how exactly does an ideology that was founded on "kill all the Jews" NOT have some sort of death camps or genocide machine, or something? There is no way a state that focused SO MUCH on removal of minorities would NOT invest in some state function dedicated to the removal of said minorities.

The argument isn't that Jews weren't specifically targeted for state sponsored genocide, but that the number of Jews killed in that genocide is far fewer than six million. I don't know if you're ignorant of the many massacres of Jews throughout Europe's history but they managed to do so without having a state function dedicated to the matter, they'd tend to be much less organized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree

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>>2462446
>Why would a nation involved in total war waste the resources- the railways, the fuel, the men for guards, the electricity, the wood and cement, during a life and death struggle just to eradicate a slave labor force?

because they believe this is part of the war effort as these people are all part of a global conspiracy to bring Germany down.

>>2462464
>total war send troops to fight Russians in the winter wearing the equivalent of Hawaiian shirts and shorts?

Wow anon, when you exaggerate that way it kinda makes sense.

http://shops.mountvernon.org/

>buy your official Mount Vernon(C) jewellery, cufflinks, plush animal toys, flour, booze and home furnishings here
>that's in addition to the $20 tickets and dinner at one of two separate restaurants

Hmmm, looks like (((someone))) stands to make a ton of cash...

>>2462476
You're right, they still froze to death but it wasn't ironic therefore my argument is ruined

>>2462471

>pogroms of the past prove the 6 million figure is wrong

what?!

>>2462442

Don't forget executed PoWs, which drives the total up still higher.

>>2462446
Why did they do it for say, allied PoWs, who did not starve en mass? You have 2 million or so French prisoners taken and used as slave labor even before the war with Russia, and less than 5% of them died in custody.

>>2462475
That image is sad, those POWs should have had better treatment. That said they all died from lack of resources at the end of the war, not due to any gassing.

>>2462494

Funny how it was the prisoners deemed to be "not REALLY people" who suffered from a lack of resources, while the German guards and other prisoners fared significantly better...

>>2462486
I was replying to someone who seemed to think such published antisemitic materials were unique to the Nazi ideology when it wasn't. I also clarified that "Holocaust denial" isn't that it didn't happen at all but that it's exaggerated. I wasn't using the former to justify the latter.

>>2462494
>That said they all died from lack of resources at the end of the war, not due to any gassing.

Oh, Im sure thats a nice consolation. They only starved to death, one of the worse ways to die, instead of being gassed.

Stormfags really are dumb niggers

>>2462471
Not the guy you're responding to but

>The argument isn't that Jews weren't specifically targeted for state sponsored genocide,

You have quite a few people who make precisely that argument, that there was no state sponsored genocide.

And I don't quite see how the claim that just because more or less spontaneous violence, not organized by a state can happen, means that state sponsored genocide wouldn't reach the numbers claimed.

>>2462471
What about Jewish massacres of gentiles throughout history?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_revolts#556_Samaritan_revolt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_revolt_against_Heraclius

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>>2462510
>Funny how it was the prisoners deemed to be "not REALLY people" who suffered from a lack of resources, while the German guards and other prisoners fared significantly better...

Yeah, like every other nation in the world wouldn't have reserved their resources for their men as opposed to POWs and political prisoners.

>>2462530

>most recent example is 1400 years ago

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>>2462545
Forget the distinction between prisoners and guards. Look at the death rates between Jewish or Soviet prisoners compared to say, British or French prisoners. Hell, you had enormously different treatments of the two in the same fucking camps; those British prisoners at Auschwitz weren't nearly as starved as the yids.

That doesn't imply anything to you?

>>2462545

funny how only the jews and russians looked like that at the end of the war and nobody else did.

also, the guy in charge of the Andersonville prison was hanged for his neglect. He was the only person executed for war crimes in the civil war

>>2462545

>reserved their resources for their men as opposed to POWs and political prisoners.

A war crime under the 1929 Geneva convention.

And yet they did feed some of their PoWs. Just the ones deemed to be fully human...

>>2462548
We can go more recent if that helps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus

>>2458768
>liberal piece of shit
99% of all members of all political ideologies (except for nazis) agree that the Holocaust happened, could you imagine calling someone in real life a smug piece of shit for arguing the Holocaust happened?

>>2462388
/d/ here again, man, I wish I had a fetish for how responsive you guys are, but that's too specific even for me!

>>2462402
See, that's what I mean!

>>2462446
>Why would a nation...waste the resources...to >eradicate a slave labor force?
To eradicate the slave once they were done with them. The camps, if I recall right, were either slave labor, death camps, or a combo of both. Also they view any non-pure German as below human so its not that much of a stretch. Also you were cucked by >2462446

>>2462471
>Jews weren't specifically targeted for state sponsored genocide
true tat, they went after gays, Gypsies, mixed races, and "political enemies" which included everyone from actual politicians, to protesting Dutch teachers
> I don't know if you're ignorant
I already said I wasn't a history expert, ouch man
also related >2462527

>>2462566

So, there was a gap of literally millenia, until just after the Second World War, then they're suddenly incredibly keen to carve out a secure homeland for themselves? How peculiar...

>>2462570
>true tat, they went after gays, Gypsies, mixed races, and "political enemies" which included everyone from actual politicians, to protesting Dutch teachers

Which constituted maybe 100,000 victims.

http://www.jta.org/2017/01/31/news-opinion/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians

>>2462570
>To eradicate the slave once they were done with them.
>early in the war
>/d/ickgirl here, I don't know anything about the holocaust but they went after everyone including gays....to protesting Dutch teachers

>>2462579
Just like this kike
>>2462211
>its okay because we had to do it for our self determination
Just like Jews were kicked out in the past.

>>2458568
>20 million Russians were killed by the Soviet government during the same time period
I'm going to need a source on that

>>2458568
>neo-nazis have been rebelling against the holocaust history for like 30 years


fixed that for you

>>2462654
It's more like 60 years.

>>2462617
>To eradicate the slave once they were done with them.
yes, they'd work them till they couldn't keep up with demands, or other reasons, depending on the camp. can't really make an exact blanket statement on places with different rules.

>early in the war
I never said that

>/d/ickgirl here, I don't know anything about the holocaust but they went after everyone including gays....to protesting Dutch teachers

never denied being /d/ickgirl, better that than a nazi. Stay mad friend-o.

finally: my bad dawg, it wasn't Dutch teachers... it was Norwegian

http://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/content/norwegian-teachers-prevent-nazi-takeover-education-1942

>>2462211
>reddit spacing

>>2458692
>Powerful jews in USA and UK had a fuck ton to gain. They actually got Israel for it

If they had enough power and clout to fake the holocaust then why couldn't they just make Israel happen regardless?

>Allies get social narrative to demonize the badguys, and to hide the original economic motive of the war. The explosive success and prosperity of German fascism presented an economic threat to the previously UK dominated Europe. They would, in tolerating Germany's rise to power, have to accept a bipolar Europe.
Germany attacked first on all accounts.

The U.S. entered because of Japans attack on pearl harbor. Did they fake that too?

If Germany was the target then why did the U.S. enter the war into conflict with Japan? The U.S. never declared war on Germany.

And if they needed a casus belli to attack Germany then why would they manufacture one when the war is already half over?

>>2458702
>the holocaust conveniently created an excuse for their own war crimes.
They didn't need an excuse. It's war bitch. They already did this tango in WW1.

>>2458833
>Why do leftists always gravitate to sexual degradation? It's like the first thing they say, every time
You mean like "cuck"?

>>2462804
>The U.S. never declared war on Germany.

They did everything short of it. Before I post those instigations let it be reminded that there were no territorial or political conflicts between the American and German nations that involved the existence or the interests of the United States. Secondly, the US was so sunk into the war already through lend-lease that the Soviet or English loss would have sent the US back into another depression.

>On June 15 1940 Roosevelt sent an intercepted telegram to French premier Paul Reynaud, telling him that the American government would double its aid to France on the condition that France continue the war against Germany
>In July 1940 Roosevelt permitted American citizens to serve in the British air force and the training of British air force personnel in the United States.
>In August 1940 a joint military policy for the United States and Canada was established.
>In September 1940 when he transferred fifty American naval destroyers to the British fleet, and in return took control of military bases on British possessions in North and Central America.
>In December 19, 1939, an American cruiser, the Tuscaloosa, maneuvered the German passenger liner Columbus into the hands of British warships while in the security zone
>In June 27, 1940, Roosevelt announced a limitation on the free movement of foreign merchant ships in US ports, completely contrary to international law.
>In November 1940 Roosevelt permitted US warships to pursue the German merchant ships Phrygia, Idarwald and Rhein until they finally had to scuttle themselves to keep from falling into British hands.

>>2462812
That is a statement regarding the sexual degradation leftists indulge in.

>>2462837
>In March 1941 all German ships were confiscated by the American authorities.
>in mid-April 1941 US naval patrols began expanded operations in the western Atlantic, reporting their observations to the British.
>In April 26, Roosevelt delivered twenty high speed patrol boats to Britain.

I could go on but it is late. But now you sort of understand.

Other major acts-
>invasion of Iceland and setting up of US bases there prior to a declaration of war

That was a major one.

>>2462842
>That is a statement regarding the sexual degradation leftists indulge in.
That doesn't change the fact that you still " always gravitate to sexual degradation" and it is in fact "the first thing you say, every time"

>>2458401
The holocaust happened, no question. However, the bulk of holocaust frenzy is mostly Hollywood/allied (Allied meaning primarily Soviet) post-war propoganda.

The SS had special units following the regular army in the east that rounded up jews, partisans, and pretty much anyone they didn't like and killed them en masse. This is well documented.

Also, it's very well documented that jews, communists, and all other undesirables were rounded up and placed into detention camps, mostly throughout the Eastern areas of occupation.

What I believe to be bullshit is the idea of industrial gas-based killings in these so-called death camps. They were primarily slave labor camps, and most wholesale ethnic cleansing was done in small villages or deep in the woods.

As allied bombers progressively destroyed supply lines, industry, and blockaded imports, the remainder of German materiel was prioritized for the war effort.

Being that this was a total war and all industry was dedicated to war fighting capabilities, the Germans naturally chose to feed, clothe, and give medical priority to its own troops and civilians, leaving those stuck in slave labor camps and detention centers stuck between hell and a hard place.

This was a conscious decision made by the German high command, which indeed holds them in violation of international law.

As food, medicine, and appropriate attire was no longer being regularly sent to the concentration camps, untold numbers of people died. The red cross published a document saying that up to 300,000 people died at Auschwitz-Burkenau alone. Yet, these people died from dysentery, starvation, and typhus.

Many storm-turds will point out that these facilities had swimming pools, football fields, cinemas, and orchestras, but that does not change the fact that these were still SLAVE LABOR/DETENTION FACILITIES.

By 1944 I doubt many of the lice-ridden, starving, detainees were out playing a nice game of footy after their twelve hours of work.

>>2462958
>Cont.

Take the Armenian genocide as an example. The Turkish government to this day says that the Armenians were a threat at the Russo-Turkish border, which many were. Therefore, they decreed that all Armenians must be moved south to the Levant in order to eliminate their potential threat.

Problem was, the Turks in no way had the materials and technologies needed to safely move and resettle a whole population of up to 2 million people across that distance, yet, they did so anyway. This resulted in somewhere between 750,000-1.5 million dead Armenian men, women, and children, which is an utter attrocity. Not to mention the harsh treatment of the Armenians the whole way down.

Nazi Germans did pretty much the same thing. They undertook a task which they could initially manage by the institution of detention and slave camps, but as the war started going south for them, they were stuck with a few million hapless starving people that were a perceived danger to their state. Hence, they just kept them locked up until the Russians arrived, causing thousands of deaths in many of the camps across the Eastern territories.

The British used concentration camps in the Boer Wars, the Americans interned Japs, the Russians had gulags, hell, everyone was doing it.

It's justa plain fact that the Germans were getting fucked from all sides and couldn't maintain their camps to a survivable degree. They are at fault for not releasing the prisoners or surrendering when they could no longer keep their populations healthy. Not to mention that as a burger I naturally frown upon the idea of unjustifiably detaining whole peoples for their views, religion, or race.

I don't know how many died. Most likely a few million, of those being a hodge-podge of jews, gypsies, poles, Russian POWs, mentally deficient people, commies, and whoever else pisses off the Gestapo or the SS.
I just really find the idea of Auschwitz being an industrial murder camp by way of a delousing product bunk

File: Glanni glæpur 20.png (253KB, 329x374px) Image search: [Google]

253KB, 329x374px

>>2462064
>>2462064

Anon, on one hand we have a building that was designed to be a crematorium. The blueprints for the building, as well as every document from the camp referencing the building, confirms it is a crematorium.
On the other hand we have an aerial reconnaissance photo showing the very same building, exactly where it is according to German maps, with four large openings where the crematoria vents are supposed to be.
Every single witness we have on hand, which reaches into the hundreds, including prisoners, Sonderkommandos, and the actual Nazis running the camp, have said that this was, indeed, a crematoria.

So, give me one good reason why we shouldn't believe this building, which did physically exist and according to all documents and testimonies is a crematoria, is a crematoria.