Has France ever acknowledged that the Treaty of Versailles caused

>>2428970
Yes, they realized it was too lenient and not harsh enough, allowing Germany to rebuild, hence the creation of the Morgenthau Plan.

>>2428994
But it didn't allow them to rebuild, Germany's build up prior to WW2 was a direct violation of the treaty

>>2429087
Because Germany was allowed to keep industry which allowed them to violate the treaty. They should have known better that Germans would treat it as a "scrap of paper"

>>2428970

UK and France both ignored most of the treaty and let Hitler do what he wanted up until he invaded Poland

Fuck off stormfag brainlet

>>2429113
But Hitler was only able to rise to power because of the disenfranchisement of the German population caused by the economic devastation and national embarrassment wrought by the treaty

>>2429209
No he wasn't dick head. Ever heard of the Great Depression?

>>2429232
Yes I have, have you ever heard of looking at history objectively rather than injecting your feelings into your analysis? The effects of the Great Depression were exacerbated in Germany due to the overwhelming reparation payments they needed to make, draining any reserve money that could have been used to combat its effects.

>>2429259

No it wasn't, it was because Germany was dependent on trade with the US and it hit them hard.

>>2428970

I think the French opinion at the time was that Versailles wasn't tough enough. They basically wanted to completely defang Germany, and forever remove the country's capability to wage offensive war.

>>2429259
Germany stopped making those payments though.

Don't get me started on these french sacks of shit

>>2428970
Bavaria should have been made a free state under Langue's protection. Also Poland should have got free hand of intervention as soon as Germany tried something stupid.

>the war can be attributed to one single treaty


How is 7th grade?

>>2428970
They did before WW2 even broke out

>On 11 November 1918 Foch accepted the German request for an armistice.
>Foch advocated peace terms that would make Germany unable to pose a threat to France ever again, but was overruled by French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau.
>When the Treaty of Versailles was signed on 28 June 1919, Foch declared, due to France not being allowed to annex the Rhineland or occupy the area for a period of thirty years, "This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years".
>His words proved prophetic: the Second World War started twenty years and 64 days later.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Foch

France knew that Versailles extreme leniency would allow Germany to chimp out again
That's why they built the Maginot Line

>>2429285
And long before the Great Depression hit them
This naziboo >>2429259 is full of shit

>>2429721
That's some nice ad hominem you've got there friend

>>2429811
Not an argument

>Germany forces reparations on France
>frogs pay it off
>Germany gets hit with reparations
>autistically screams before starting a second world war

>>2429818
Neither is ad hominem dipshit

>>2429974
The ad hominem was preceded by an argument that you promptly ignored, so happy that you were to be able to spout "muh hominem!!!!", you utter sub-human

>>2429974
>2+2=6

>no it doesn't retard

>OH MUH GAWD YOU JUST CALLED ME A NAME THAT MEANS I AUTOMATICALLY AM RIGHT

Kill yourself retard

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>>2428970

It's another edition of the muh treaty ruined economy.

Germany did perfectly fine ruining their own economy throughout WW1. Mismanaging finances and over spending with little future planning. Note that this mismanagement did not stop with Versailles. They continued to make terrible economic decisions. Germany didn't have the same level of develepment in their money markets and so invested in risky institutions.

See: the Hindenburg Program. By the end of the war Germany's short-term floating debt accounted for 30% of their total debt. Guess how they paid for it? Yup, by printing more notes. Guess what happens when you do that? Yup, inflation.

Versailles didn't help, but if there's a list of things that broke Germany it's down a few slots in the middle of that list. Not at the top.

>>2428970
The Treaty of Versailles had legs to go to war, and arms to use weapons ? How many people did he kill ?

>>2428970
Have Germany ever acknowledged that the Franco-Prussian war caused the Treaty of Versailles?

>>2430072
>>2430125

Here you go retards

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

>>2428970
Germany was simply too powerful. They had a huge fucking population boom where they saw over 50% growth in population from 1871 to 1913. Meanwhile, France was stuck at Germany's 1871 population level. German industry and army made them the preeminent land power in Europe. French were just buttmad they got overrun and needed Tommy Dickhopsinworthingbroke and Joe Blow to help them not get totally cucked.

>>2428970
They rightly acknowledged that it wasn't harsh enough. Germany shouldn't be a country.

>>2428970
>Has Germany ever acknowledged that the Treaty of Versailles was caused by the First World War?

>>2430335
Also, Charles de Gaulle was a total faggot French cuck with a retard daughter who was always fixated on the "Perfidious Albion" meme, making him one of the first documented ribbit posters in history.

>>2430284
You're still a huge faggot who focuses on unimportant shit and ignores the main argument-

>>2428970
Why was Germany allowed to keep as an Unified country?

>>2428970

If any document is responsible for WW2 it would be the Anglo-German Naval Agreement which lessened the restrictions on Germany's navy to such a degree that Hitler was able to build the battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. Those ships gave Hitler the confidence to pursue more ambitious goals.

>>2430362
>retard daughter

kill yourself edgy faggot

>anglos are this buttblasted

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>>2430362
>perfidious albion will stoop to the level of mocking a man's daughter
The French were the wrong enemy

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>France will be obliterated in a nuclear holocaust in your lifetime

can't wait desu. Those degenerates are long overdue for extinction

>>2428970
>set up harsh conditions when beating France before WWI
>set up harsh conditions when being Russia during WWI
>get mildly harsh conditions after losing WWI
>trow tantrum about unfair treatment

>>2430565
France has over 300 nuclear weapons
you'll go to the grave with the frogs

>>2428994
This.

Germany should have been dismantled.

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>>2428970
>start a war
>get suicided once again
>WOW STOP PUSHING ME IT WAS A PRANK

it keeps happening, so for the sake of europe and mankind as a whole i suggest to put germany on a boat and let it adrift in the ocean

>>2430362
>mocking a little girl with Down's

You're an asshole, Nigel.

This thread taught me that ww2 started due to the great depression destroying trade with the U.S. Ok

>>2431636
>list of reasons
>only take the one You want
Faggot

>>2430405
>>2430446
>>2431432

God save the Queen and the French can kiss my arse.

>>2432712
dont try to mask your lack of decency with nationalism

Yes.

>>2428970
Pretty sure the 2nd world war wouldn't have happened without German aggression.

>>2428994
Fpbp

USA and Wilson fucked up

>>2429694
It should be noted that Clemenceau was really all in favor of Foch's approach (maybe not the exact terms) but the other players forced his hand.

>>2428994
Is there anyone who actually believes turning Germany back into an agrarian society was a good plan?

>>2432903
Frenchfags, Polacks & PIIGS posters on /his/

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>>2432903
No, not even brits as they were first to critizice the treaty and how unfairly french treated it.


>British officials at the conference declared French policy to be "greedy" and "vindictive," with Ramsay MacDonald later announcing, after Hitler's re-militarisation of the Rhineland in 1936, that he was "pleased" that the treaty was "vanishing", expressing his hope that the French had been taught a "severe lesson".


Essentially iirc brits wanted a economically restored germany back as a trading partner and this created a lot of schism between them and the french.

>hey guys germany is gearing up for another world war
>should we stop them?
>nah

>>2432954
>hey guys germany is gearing up to #btfo of the communists
>should we stop them?
>nah

FTFY. This was before they started swallowing up their neighbors.

>>2428994
This
Never trust the Eternal Germano

>>2428970
>M-MUH VERSAILLES TREATY REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>Brest-Litovsk was 10x worse for Russia and they just accepted it and moved on

The perpetuation of the stab in the back myth combined with the completely understandable punitive measures imposed by the allies was what caused WW2 in the end. The German general staff were too scared to lose honor by declaring the surrender themselves, so they just made Matthias Erzberger (and thus the civilian government) do everything. In 1921 he was murdered for it, and the meme that the proud German military tradition was undermined by Jewish interests and spineless politicians was never disproved, especially since the military actively undermined the Weimar Republic and implicitly led to its downfall by refusing to do anything about the Nazis and eventually throwing their lot in with them once Chancellor Bruening established rule by decree.

>>2433299
>Brest-Litovsk was 10x worse for Russia and they just accepted it and moved on
it wasn't though. Unless you only count sq miles of land lost. Also, Russia had no choice but to accept it since the formal army had collapsed and the ability to resist was essentially non-existent. Germans already occupied most of the land ceded away in the treaty and if they had the inclination they could have marched on St. Petersburg pretty much unopposed (which is why the soviets signed the treaty). Compare this to Germany who was still able to mount an effective resistance holding lines that stretched beyond its own borders.

In any case trying you'll never have a satisfactory explanation of why the second world war started without acknowledging the central role that WW1 and its conclusion in the Treaty of Versailles had on shaping the world and ultimately creating a unique environment for fascism to germinate.

>>2432903
No, however it should have been broken up into it's historical states.

Should've dropped the nukes on Germany desu.

>>2433331
>Also, Russia had no choice but to accept it since the formal army had collapsed and the ability to resist was essentially non-existent

Just like Germany at the end of WW1 then

>>2433424
The original point being made was that "versailles wasn't nearly as bad as brest-livtosk!" but that versaille had to be tempered by the fact that Germany was still in a condition to put up considerable resistance whereas Bolshevik russia was not. While the allies were making substantial breakthroughs the Germany army was not in collapse and those breakthroughs still were bought with many thousands of casualties that the allies wished to avoid

>>2430648

naw pham they donated their arsenal to israel

>>2428970
It is what is actually taught in history classrooms.

>>2433454
>but that versaille had to be tempered by the fact that Germany was still in a condition to put up considerable resistance

Absolutly wrong
Germany had already surrendered before the exact terms were decided and was fully at the mercy of the winners
The only thing that tempered Versailles was the different view points the Allies held on how to deal with Germany

>>2433536
>Germany had already surrendered before the exact terms were decided
What do you mean by this?

>>2433543
That when Germany surrendered in 1918, Versailles terms weren't decided yet
The Germans put themselves at the mercy of the Allies and then waited for the end of the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 to know what would happen to them

>>2433552
Are you talking about the armistice? Because an armistice and a surrender are two separate things.

>>2433558
Not really
The Germans literally surrendered to Foch

>>2433566
Well no they didn't 'literally surrender', because an armistice is not the same thing as a surrender. An armistice is a temporary cessation of hostilities for a predetermined period of time, which is why the 1918 armistice had to be extended something like an additional 4 times before a formal treaty was signed.

>>2433571
They fucking withdrew all their forces from France and the Allies occuupied the Rhineland soon after the Armistice (before the Peace Conference even started)
It was clear that it was definitive and that Germany had lost

>>2432888
It was the jews was it not?

>>2433582
As a condition of the armistice yes, but the 1918 armistice was not a surrender. Words have meaning and words like 'armistice' and 'surrender' are not interchangeable.

>>2428994
But didn't Western Europe partly want Germany to violate the treaty? I thought they were worried about a USSR hand invasion and wanted Germany acting as a buffer zone, which they couldn't do without a credible armes forces.

>>2428970
>be germany
>want armistice
>allies overrun you at the talks and a planted revolution surrenders
>take country hostage and force peace terms rather than armistice
>peace terms absolutely batshit compared to the primary cause
>disband austria hungary but dissalow germans to join germany
>forceful removal of germans from places theyve been for hundreds of years
>wonder why they ignore your treaty and try to ethnically cleanse you later

Its like pottery, if germany won ww1 the timeline would have been so much better. The great cuckolding of western culture is a direct result of ww2, so is the rise of communism.

Willy unironically did nothing wrong

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>>2433668
>peace terms absolutely batshit compared to the primary cause

Seriously hope you guy don't believe this

>>2433675
It honored a call to arms from its ally who had war declared on them by russia due to pan slavism, russia and france where in similar spheres of political interest and where allied so france honored its call to arms so in response germany reciprocated

As for luxembourg it was rightful german clay, not so much anymore. Its only inexcusable action being its Belgian invasion.

Germany was no cause, yet somehow recieved all the blame. And footed the bill that serbia racked up. Another reason why versailles was unjustified.

Nobody imagined going into yet another world war and throwing millions more men into a meat grinder. Not even the victors wanted to fight war, look how far appeasement went. If Germany was nit in the bud when it broke terms, the war may have ended with less blood. The entente were too merciful

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>>2433711
>who had war declared on them by russia due to pan slavism

Nope, the timeline in the pic is perfectly accurate and not ommitting any war declaration
War between Russia and A-H only happened many days after Germany attacked Russia

Pic related, this time a timeline listing war declarations only

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>>2433711
>As for luxembourg it was rightful german clay

I guess Germany did nothing after all since all of Europe (and beyond) is their "righful clay"

>>2433711

>yet somehow recieved all the blame

Because they brought Britain, Belgium, and France into the war??

>>2433711
>Germany was no cause, yet somehow recieved all the blame. And footed the bill that serbia racked up. Another reason why versailles was unjustified.

Germany received the blame (and reparation bill) for the destruction they had caused in France and Belgium, nothing more
They should have been happy to be left pretty much untouched when Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire were both dismantled despite having done much less bullshit than them

From how things appear to me, there were these two reasons that roused a thirst for WW2 in Germany:
>The innate belief that they had not been defeated in the field
Hindenburg and Luddendorf ought to be incriminated as the worst perpretators for letting this gain traction, especially considering that it was revived by the nazis, but both those men denied that they had ever begged from the government to sue for peace once the Hindenburg line had been breached, and therefore layed the entirety of the blame for the defeat on the government (and therefore "jooooooos" to nazis), rather than acknowledging how the army had also brought the army to defeat. Which persuaded parts of Germany that Gemany might've been victorious in the Weltkrieg had they rather been speared by a strong nationalist government, and not been betrayed by internal schism.

>The 1929 crisis
Contrarily to how insanely exaggerated its whole scope is, the hyperinflation of the early 20s never weakened Germany for the duration that would be believed. By the mid 20s, the Weimar government had established and renewed a strong economy thanks to the American Dawes plan, and the French and British had started to express leniency with the reparations (mostly out of a hope that the Germans would not autistically go into hyperinflation again to evade paying). What screwed them over was when the Americans had to retract their trade and investment in Germany by 1929, and sent the German economy spiralling into near-death, essentially now fashioning it as a breeding ground for political extremes.

So Nazis coming into power was the consequence of a myth the army voluntarily ingrained in the public mind, and of the German economy getting stomped on by someone wholly unrelated to the Versailles treaty.

I'm not saying the Versailles treaty wasn't harsh, but compare it to the Frankfurt treaty of 1870 against France and has it the almost same points: losing land, enormous reparations, forced republican system, etc...

>>2433730
>state sponsored pan slavic terrorism isnt war

>>2433732
It was, and still is, the last princely state of the holy roman empire, and therefore german clay

>>2433735
France was going to war anyways due to russian involvement. The franco-russian political sphere existed you know

>>2433737
Those two empires shouldnt have been touched either but thats besides the point. They where forced to pay an exhuberant amount, which if you look at the math would have paid for a whole nother belgium altogether. Much more than repair costs to both countries.

But lets not forget why france was a shit to begin with. Stealing alsace-lotharingen from its rightful german holders.
France at that time was an enemy of freedom and nationalism. And infected germany with those aids now.

Tldr: france was the ultimate underlying cause of ww1 and 2

They should have repirationed themselves

>>2433808
>France at that time was an enemy of freedom and nationalism
>the country that unironically made nationalism a force in Europe and campaigned for 20 years for freedom in the Napoleonic wars

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>>2433808
>the holy roman empire

>>2433808
>France at that time was an enemy of freedom and nationalism.

Do you ever feel like you shouldn't spout opinions on things that you know so very little about?

>>2433808
>But lets not forget why france was a shit to begin with. Stealing alsace-lotharingen from its rightful german holders.

They did that in the fucking 1600s m8
Keeping a butthurt alive for 300 years is pure autism
By the time Germany stole it back in 1871, Alsace had became fully French

>>2433818
>>2433824
>>2433825
>>2433827
>minds poisoned by the eternal frog
Perhaps you should wake up from your french mental domination.

Voltaire was also a terrorist, helping undermind the legitimacy of the Holy Roman Empire so they can weaken and destroy the german people.

And if nationalism means ethnically cleansing germans then I guess the french are correct. Funny enough germans do that better as well.

>>2433832
b8

>>2433584
Most of the blame falls on fucking Woody as usual.

>>2432903
>turning Germany back into an agrarian society
They should've pour salt over the land so nothing could grow from it

>>2433668
Where were the Germans ethnically cleansed in 1919?
You're sure you're not thinking of 1945 Hans?

>>2432944
The British were principally trying to get propaganda to make themselves look good for the future, the British were actually harsher on reparations at the Peace Conference itself than the French, they just also published a few documents proclaiming how moderate they were and people still fall for the anglo's lies until today.

>>2432888
He wasn't though, Foch literally wanted to continue the war until the destruction of Germany which Clemenceau wasn't onboard with, Clemenceau was pleased at the armistice and has had his name tarnished by the Anglos and the Germans.

>>2428970
Not partitioning Germany is what caused the second cold war.

>>2433630

No, that had nothing to do with it. Poland was the buffer, if they even wanted one, which they didn't much after Stalin went Socialism in One Country.

The abrogation of the Treaty of Versailles was because Britain believed Germany could be trusted, and insisted on preventing France from enforcing its terms when Germany started violating them in 1925.

Britain forced France to adopt a wholly defensive stance or else Britain would abandon the alliance and leave France alone. That's why the Maginot line was built, to prove to Britain that they weren't being aggressive whatsoever.

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>>2433827
>in 1871, Alsace had became fully French
At least try not to speak obvious falsehoods

How long would Britain have stayed out if Germany didn't go through Belgium?

>>2434627
Does that mean parts of the USA can be taken by Germany because muh dialects ?

>>2434840
Not long, they were part of the Triple Entente
Belgium was a convenient excuse for the British pleb

But Germany would have had much harder time if they had attacked the fortified French border
Most of the war would probably have taken place on German soil, and since Britain would have joined regardless, Germany would have gained nothing from it
In the end, passing through Belgium was a clever move

>>2430284
If you're going to quote fallacies off Wikipedia look up "Argument from Fallacy"

>>2434627
And where was german spoken in this picture?

>>2435565
Are you color blind or illiterate?

>>2435683
>if a dialect of my language is spoken there, that country is mine
guess France better annex england and the US then.

>>2435695
Who are you quoting

>>2435711
Literally what the picture implies.

>>2435716
The picture isn't implying anything you fucking retard

>>2435722
>Alsace was not french, cue picture of Alsacian people speaking germans dialects
>implication is Alsace is not french BECAUSE they speak a german dialect
are you playing dumb or baiting on 5 levels

>>2435731
>Alsace had become "fully French" even though it was predominantly German speaking
???

>>2435738
Most of France was predominantly speaking another language before the revolution. It doesn't make them less french.

>>2428970

The failure to enforce the treaty caused the Second World War.

>>2435780
The treaty in itself was absurb since it implied France would have the power to uphold it after losing so many men and having a maimed country after the war.

>>2434627
>Germans live in Alsace so Alsace should be a part of Germany
Turks live in Gelsenkirchen so Gelsenkirchen should be annexed by Turkey. This is your logic.

>>2434890
>>2435789
It's literally just pointing out the demographics

Though you're pretty fucking stupid if you think the things you're bringing up are equivalent

>>2435805
They are pretty relevant. You're pretty much saying that as long as a foreign minority takes over a territory, that territory should belong to their original mother country. So California should be Mexican, half of Ruhrgebeit should be Turkish and Marseilles might as well be annexed by Algeria.

>>2435815
Do you think the German speaking population in Alsace-Lorraine were immigrants that were taking over?

>>2435787
They easily could have enforced it
Remember that Germany never once in their whole history resisted an occupation
The thing is that France and Britain during the Inter-War were full of weak politicians who gave up on enforcing the treaty (while Germany had neither an army nor a resistance movement).

>>2435863
Easily how?
Politicians were weak, since the country was completely split on even domestic political issues.
The men, ergo the military, was weak after being literally bled dry, when they already were vastly outnumbered by their neighbours.
England and America certainly didn't want to see Germany being too occupied either.

>(while Germany had neither an army nor a resistance movement)
They did right after the short occupation of the Ruhr by the french. And even if they didn't outright resist the french after the armistice, they did so economically by economical seppuku. France didn't get a dime of what it was owed.

>>2430398
To protect the West against Communism by acting as a buffer

>>2435753
I don't know what you're trying to say. Before the revolution nationality didn't matter. Once nationality and Frenchness mattered, the state consistently wanted to suppress regional languages in France and spread the use of French. Not speaking a nationality's language definitely does make you less of that nationality.

French tolerance of minority language is a pretty recent thing. I'm not even sure they accept the EU laws for minority languages yet.

>>2434207
And the British were also against France annexing the west bank of the Rhineland like the French Wanted, and against The Occupation of the Ruhr.

They believed payment at a pace stable for Germany was the best option. France wanted a complete destruction of Germany.

>>2434173
butthurt ribbit detected

>>2430398
>>2435899
Usual anglo desire to not see any country dominate europe, to prevent anyone being able to effectively block english trade into europe/being able to construct a rivaling fleet.

>>2435909
I disagree. The britons fought for their language and even though they lost kept speaking it. Even if children after the revolution were taught french, they were still able to speak their regional dialects. The french nationality is very fluent and comprised of many languages and races.

>>2435863
The Germans did resist the occupation of the Rhineland by completely fucking their own economy

>>2430284
You are completely misunderstanding what ad hominem means. It means calling you a retard without also presenting an argument. They presented an argument and then called you a retard. That is not an ad hominem fallacy. Retard.

>>2435927
>The french nationality is very fluent and comprised of many languages
Then why is France one of the minority of European countries not to ratify the charter on the rights of minority language groups?

>>2435947
Because the french government is very centralist and has wanted to extinguish those languages since the revolution. Doesn't change that previous fact.

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>>2435997
>literally admit that the French government has been trying to extinguish France's minority languages since the revolution (which is more or less when French nationality started mattering)
>still think French nationality has 0 to do with language
I give up, I don't know why I even tried

>>2436017
The idea french people/political elites make of their national identity and the reality are not the same.

>>2434173
they should have dug up the whole landmass and jettisoned it out to sea

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>>2430349

>>2431030
Because that worked out so well with Turkey and Austria.

>>2436232
mmm, yes?

>all these people saying Germany should've been wiped off the map
I'm not a particular fan of Germany, but at least by that point they didn't actually do anything worth dissolving their nation as punishment. The only argument is that it made sense for the French to do that at the time because a massive industrial state in the middle of a population boom was a threat to them, but how you translate from "it would have been in country X's best interest to do this" and "country Y is le evil and shouldn't exist" I don't understand.

Only explanation I see is that there are far more French and Belgian posters on /his/ than I thought, still mad that le Hun dindus killed millions of them in a war neither party actually started.

>>2436298
Obviously sarcasm. The former Ottoman and Austrian territories in the Balkans and Mideast are shitholes.

I'll admit Serbia isn't the same as a theoretical independent Rhineland or Bavaria, but still the principle of "lol just balkanize our enemies into tens of states with no recent history of self rule it'll be fine lol" has had close to a total record of failure.

>>2436330
but the point is to make them shitholes

>>2428970
Yeah. If it had been as harsh as the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk no second war would have happened due to German weakness.

It's hilarious how much Germany simply existing triggers leftypol

french revanchism led to the first world war, and that vengeful disease led to their laying of the foundation of their own most humbling occupation

>>2436354
revanchism is a meme made up by krauts

Has the United States ever acknowledged that arming the Mujahideen caused 9/11?

>>2436401
Has the Mujahideen ever acknowledged that 9/11 caused millions of dead Syrians?

>>2436354
yes, that famous time where France threatened Germany with war if they did not forfeit their forts near the frontier

>>2436401
no because it didn't

>>2428970
>Has Germany ever acknowledged that them starting the First World War caused the Treaty of Versailles.

>>2436354
How did French revanchism lead to Germany attacking Russia, France and Belgium because Austria had invaded Serbia?

>>2436311
>Only explanation I see is that there are far more French and Belgian posters on /his/ than I thought,

Will faggots like you keep making such baseless assumptions about nationalities until /his/ gets flag?
Visit /int/ and upi'll see that people in these debates (be it those in favor of France or those in favor of Germany) are half the time from countries totally unrelated to WW1

>>2428970
>Ruin Europe
>Lose
>Cry to Momma when you have to give tribute in the peace treaty

boo-fucking-hoo, life isn't fair, especially not when life is made of 4 years of war and a wiped out generation

>>2436889
It was a joke m8. It's just strange to me that people have to take "pro" and "anti" positions here. I don't like or dislike Imperial Germany or the 4th (?) French Republic, it confuses me why people in modern times would want so badly for a country to have been wiped off of the map in the past.

>>2436918
>it confuses me why people in modern times would want so badly for a country to have been wiped off of the map in the past.
Do you know about that thing that happened called world war two?

>>2436991
People born AFTER that are approaching average life expectancy. I'm talking about people alive right now and posting on an anonymous Sudanese oil painting imageboard.

>>2436232
Turkey and Austria haven't really caused World War 2 and made things miserable for the continent now, have they?

>>2438072
People alive live still have family members that went through that shit and modern countries have still been influenced by the Second World War, there's plenty of reason to wish it had never happened, and the dismantling of Germany would have done just that.

>>2438091
>what are the yugoslav wars
>what is the war on terror
>what is the migrant crisis

>"lol those are world war 2 so its fine"

>>2438104
Who's to say the world would be better if Germany did get dismantled? This far in the future the consequences are totally unknowable.

>>2438112
>>what are the yugoslav wars

A regional scuffle, nothing on the scale of WW2 or affecting the WW1 allies all that much.

>>what is the war on terror
A consequence of the Cold War more than any anything, and something on a considerably smaller scale than WW2.

>>what is the migrant crisis
You know the gist by now.

To compare any of these events to WW2 is mindbogglingly stupid and lacking in scale.

>>2433832

>>>/pol/

>>2436401
It didn't. 9/11 was caused by Saudis, different group of US-funded sandniggers.

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>>2438104
thinking being a nomadic warrior culture culture for almost a thousand year, albeit in different incarnations, makes you somehow a lesser society and not a strong one
BRILLIANT

>>2434207
Sauce please.

>"Henceforward the Rhine ought to be the Western military frontier of the German countries. Henceforward Germany ought to be deprived of all entrance and assembling ground, that is, of all territorial sovereignty on the left bank of the river, that is, of all facilities for invading quickly, as in 1914, Belgium, Luxembourg, for reaching the coast of the North Sea and threatening the United Kingdom, for outflanking the natural defences of France, the Rhine, Meuse, conquering the Northern Provinces and entering the Parisian area."
>"What the people of Germany fear the most is a renewal of hostilities since, this time, Germany would be the field of battle and the scene of the consequent devastation. This makes it impossible for the yet unstable German Government to reject any demand on our part if it is clearly formulated. The Entente, in its present favourable military situation, can obtain acceptance of any peace conditions it may put forward provided that they are presented without much delay. All it has to do is to decide what they shall be"

>Foch considered the Treaty of Versailles to be "a capitulation, a treason" because he believed that only permanent occupation of the Rhineland would grant France sufficient security against a revival of German aggression. As the treaty was being signed Foch said: "This is not peace. It is an armistice for 20 years"

Now, explain to me how he was wrong

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>>2439125
I literally can't

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>>2439125
He wasn't.

>>2439125
Because he was just another autistic Frog eternally butt-flustered that Francer will never, ever, ever finish ethnic-cleansing the left bank of the Rhine.

>>2441982
t. vicious Boche retard

>>2441982
>ethnic cleansing

thats a kraut thing, Hans

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>>2429113
>UK and France both ignored most of the treaty and let Hitler do what he wanted up until he invaded Poland

What is the Occupation of the Ruhr?

The French tried to enforce Versailles but the British almost from the beginning were turning a blind eye to violations and later went so far as to not only ignore Hitler's violation of naval treaties but to actually help Germans hide theses violations from the French.

Was there ever a shittier country then the United Kingdom of Perfidious Albion?

>>2442273
On the side, the Somua S35 was a solid early-war tank.
It just got used pathetically.

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>>2441992
>>2442143
>mfw the """"""""""""""""""""natural borders"""""""""""""""""""" of le francer

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>>2441982
Germany and France are already in a state of decay, the ones who manage to survive to the invasion of Europe by the brown hordes will be its master.

>>2442290
If I'm correct, De Gaulle was able to use them effectively at Montcornet, but every other French general/strategist was trash so he had to end up retreating
Just think what could have been if France had used their tanks properly...

>>2442487
>but every other French general/strategist
You mean Free-masons

The problem was they didnt enforce it when they should have