In your heart, you know they were right. >cue assblasted

>>2428789
They weren't wrong, the mafia just got too scary

>>2428789
Telling people "NO DON'T DO THAT" is not an effective way of getting people to not do something and has never worked.

>>2428813

t. Anheuser Busch

>>2428875
>Abstinence works guys!
>States that teach abstinence have higher teenage and out of wedlock birth rates
>Prohibition works guys!
>Entire industry spawns around getting illegal alcohol
>The War on Drugs is working guys!
>Opiod and Crack epidemics sweep the nation, not even including smoking weed is basically a given

This argument is silly when applied to guns and its sillier when applied to alcohol.

>>2429183
Utah has the lowest births out of wedlock out of any state by a far margin.

>>2428789
It still baffles me prohibition was passed, a part of my brain refuses to believe there was a time where gangsters ran booze operations instead of drugs and shit.

>>2428813
Worked pretty well for smoking.

>>2429436
Utah is a very special case, though. Basically its own country.

>>2429467
Smoking isnt outlawed. It just comes with a giant stigma about the medical consequences and heavy limitations on its ability to advertise and produce plus extensive medical propaganda against it.

Still, people smoke.

They weren't right, simply because banning things doesn't actually address the underlying problems. They were successful in reducing drinking somewhat, but it was a stupid cost.

I don't disagree that alcohol is a dangerous drug and a serious public health concern however.

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>>2429490

>t-that doesn't count!

Coincidentally, also a small, homogenous, conservative Christian non (((diverse))) society.

>>2429183
fun fact, alcohol use dropped massively following prohibition. So I guess you're full of shit lmao

>opiod epidemic caused by war on drugs
wrong

>>2429772
and was that drop really worth the rise in crime and people getting poisoned by an unregulated supply coming from Billy-Joe's bathtub?

>>2428789
Daily reminder that a complete and total gynocide is the only solution to the woman question.

>>2429799
rates of cirrhosis dropped. Less people were actually getting poisoned. So that's also horseshit

>rising crime!
S I N G A P O R E

>>2429183
The drug war is winnable it's just more profitable for all parties involved to maintain some milquetoast half measure status quo. Full legalization or full crackdown with 25 year sentences for any quantity are an equally workable solution.

>>2429808
>S I N G A P O R E

Has a rising heroin use rate and reports their drug use rates based on arrests, which has an obvious flaw as a metric.

>>2429816
0.05% use rate for marijuana. That's progress

>le rates fluctuate

haha, this is pathetic

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>>2428789
They were wrong because the laws did not punish the end user, drug laws that don't punish the end user fail to cut off the demand for the product. Case in point, if our drug laws punished the end user like in Singapore, then people would not be smoking the Devil's herb in the streets like they do here.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/singapore-policy-drugs-bay

>>2429823
Don't expect coherent arguments from libertarians. They believe that people are islands and that destroying your mental health with drugs should be legal because it apparently only impacts you.

>>2429808
indeed, that island city-state will assuredly have the same practical problems in enforcing it's laws as a continent-spanning nation

>>2429865
When you have fearsome punishments that punish the end user, the demand will decline dramatically. Western drug laws are a joke because the end user is not adequately deterred

>>2429853
yeah, the whole line of thinking to me seems like a defense of unhealth. What's the end goal here? The right to bad life choices

>>2429865
Even if execution is necessarily less efficient, it's still far ahead of what currently exists

>>2429885
This. The idea you can't drive down demand is a fucking joke.

>>2429823
Again, their reported usage rates are based on arrest rates.

>>2429853
No, I just happen to think taking the word of an autocracy at face value on what's an effective solution to drug problems that comes at a cost to human life is a foolish idea that only an edgy teenager without a moral compass would buy.

>>2429885
Execution is not an effective deterrent.

>>2429898
>The right to bad life choices

The right to life choices in general, actually. You start dictating what life choices the state is allowed to make for you, you set a precedent that the state is allowed to meddle in every affair of their private citizenry, and basically adopt a totalitarian stance that nothing is outside the state.

>>2428789
>t. dickhead who likes to post about "degeneracy"
Kill yourself
If Jesus can drink wine at a wedding party, why the FUCK can't I drink beer in my own fucking house

>>2429927
execution is not an effective deterrent, but it is an effective prevention of recidivism

>>2429927
>the slippery slope!
oh get real. Drugs are an obvious social problem and nobody is suggesting we control every faucet of human life. Vices are addictive and personal choice is completely irrelevant in this context. In economic terms, the government has a right to intervene in inefficient markets

>>2429969
>execution is not an effective deterrent, but it is an effective prevention of recidivism

A good way to give your state means to dispose of "undesirables" and get innocent people killed too.

>slippery slope

You're a fucking dipshit. Slippery slopes are actually applicable in government matters and law due to the way precedents work.

>nobody is suggesting we control every faucet of human life

The precedent for further manipulation is already set.

>In economic terms, the government has a right to intervene in inefficient markets

They have the same right a government has to genocide: the might to do so against people that can't fight back.

>>2429988
This is pretty funny. You agree with what I"m saying, but then tack on little irrelevances of no substantive importance to show how problematic you think efficient drug control is

false positives? By far a low chance and hardly worth considering. Slippery slopes are universally true? I bet you think having traffic tickets is an encroaching police state. But law is now equatable to genocide? What kind of crystal meth are you smoking child.

But the road to serfdom! Okay, here's your welfare stub and bus ticket. You can walk back to your trailer park

>>2430028
>By far a low chance and hardly worth considering.

Innocent lives aren't worth considering? You're a monstrous piece of shit.

>Slippery slopes are universally true?

In law? Absolutely. Laws accumulate faster than they are taken away. This is why virtually every modern nation has an absolutely Byzantine code of laws.

>I bet you think having traffic tickets is an encroaching police state.

Nice assumption, but wrong.

>But law is now equatable to genocide?

Unjust state sponsored murder is indeed equivalent to unjust state sponsored murder. You'll note I wasn't talking about all laws, just the idea of executing drug offenders as Singapore does.

>efficient drug control

First off, execution isn't efficient if you want to maintain this "low chance" that's "hardly worth considering" of executing innocent people. Secondly, there's considerably more of value to the functioning of a state than "efficiency." In fact, from a standpoint of strict state function, just ignoring the problem entirely is actually more efficient. But I'm not here to argue for efficiency, I'm here to argue for a sound moral policy that can keep a society healthy for something more than an irrelevant autocratic city-state.

They were right in spirit, but not in execution.

In reality the lowly plebs should be left with their alcohol while the enlightened 420 teetotal master-race blazes it.

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>>2430103
> Enlightened
> Smokes cannabis
Pick one

>>2430068
be realistic. thousands of people die in traffic accidents, heart disease, all kinds of nasty things. The chances of your death being a false positive is incredibly low. But the benefits of getting rid of drug dealers cannot be understated. Cry bloody tears over the preventable deaths and impairments of the drug addiction you defend, why don't you. This is a drop in the bucket

>unjust state sponsored murder!
you mean just, lawful, state-sponsored murder. And within an entirely rational reason.

As for the rest of your crying episode I think you're lapsing into sociology levels of stupidity. Oh, the definition is the problem! We must "deal" with this "problem" of "Framing" the "problem".

Singapore's methods are demonstrably effective, you've zero counterargument to make besides appealing to fear. I don't care what you think, we need smart public policy based on empirical effectiveness

>>2430068
They execute people possessing an amount of a drug that could only be conceivably for the purpose of trafficking. They punish and attempt to rehabilitate the end user.

>>2430153
>be realistic. thousands of people die in traffic accidents, heart disease, all kinds of nasty things.

We do not simply passively accept those things, we work to minimize them. What's your fucking point?

>The chances of your death being a false positive is incredibly low.

Only, and I should stress this ONLY if you make execution such an inefficient process that it completely undermines your stated purpose for considering it. Appeals are expensive, lengthy, and absolutely required to ensure that the state doesn't fuck up or just push someone through execution just to get rid of them.

>But the benefits of getting rid of drug dealers cannot be understated.

Those are some good numbers you brought up, considering your hardon for "empiricism."

>Cry bloody tears over the preventable deaths and impairments of the drug addiction you defend, why don't you.

Self inflicted death is not of the same magnitude as state-sponsored death.

>This is a drop in the bucket

One innocent death at the hands of the state is an unacceptable quantity. Anyone that supports those policies is a murderer by proxy.

>you mean just, lawful, state-sponsored murder. And within an entirely rational reason.

The Ottoman Empire considered the Armenian Genocide a lawful action it being lawful does not make it right.

>Singapore's methods are demonstrably effective

According to Singapore, based on a flawed metric.

>I don't care what you think, we need smart public policy based on empirical effectiveness

Well I do care what you think, and people like you need to be opposed at every single turn, because society needs a moral standard, not insect-like murder (this isn't an exaggeration either, bees are known to rip the legs off of other bees that come to the hive drunk too many times).

>>2430165
Still monstrous.

>>2430220
I'm reading a lot of text but the tl;dr is a drawn out WAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Singapore: it works!

>>2428789
Fuck off Mohammad, every free man has the right to buy some drinks.

>>2428789
They were dead wrong. I don't care how many peoples lives were ruined by X, personal responsibility trumps emotions. Your husband got drunk and killed himself? Sorry, not my problem.

>>2429554
>i have no concept of what an outlier is or means

Abstinence education working well in one state out of the many that practice it does not mean it is a good idea.

>>2428813
Works for drugs.

>>2429490
Exactly.
The other states having all those out of wedlock births are being influenced by people from other states.

>>2428789
>1850s
Women push for strict Victorian morality and prudishness which leads to a century of sexually repressed, hyper moralistic Anglos

>1910s
Women push for alcohol prohibition because their drunk husbands are beating them, this results in Italian and Irish mobsters completely controlling America with their illegal booze and people dying from alcohol poisoning.

>1960s
Women do a 180 on their Victorian morality, promote prostitution, pornography, drugs and exposing their bodies

>2010s
Women realize sexual liberation led to several generations of men jerking off to porn and fucking whores, get butthurt about "sexual objectification" and want to ban all porn

Why the hell do we let women fuck up our societies repeatedly so much?

>>2428789
Only muslim extremists preach the abolishment of the sweet ambrosia and social lubricant that is alcohol. So go join isis and die in an air raid faggot.

>>2428813

This. Governing with subsidies and incentives is a far better way than by taxing and outlawing.

>>2429467
>not being allowed to advertise
>strong stigma and warnings from medical industry
>taxed into orbit

NOT

>illegal

>>2428789
>January 16, 1919, Momentous day in world's history

fucking mongs thought anyone gave a shit about discount europe's muslim-tier laws lmao

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>>2430455
Read Elliot Rodger for the final solution to the female question.

>>2429799

>be degenerate
>die

What was the problem with this?

>>2430455
>1920's: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html
>2017: (You are never going to have a gf)

>>2430220

>still monstrous

Ok, butthurt stoner faggot detected

>>2430528
As much as I want to sympathize with Elliot I just can't. He wasn't even mad about women, he was butthurt about other men taking women away from him. Hence why most of his victims were actually men.

And this is the problem. Marx was talking about the bourgeoise pit various proletarians against in each other in order to prevent revolution against them, and Hitler said something similar about the Jews, but I feel this is actually applicable to women. Since the dawn of time, women were pitting men against each other with divide & conquer tactics. The most legendary conflict of the antiquity, the Trojan War, literally happened because of a fucking woman.

The real solution is men overcoming differences and allying with one another against women.

>>2429554
>Christian
>Literally believe that the God of the Bible was born to some alien God

I hope you enjoy hell.

>>2428789

in my heart, I know protestants are retarded

DEUS VULT

>>2430378
>>2430553

Why do you want a nanny state so much

Why ban drugs and alcohol, things that hurt and kill people, if you will hurt and kill people anyway? Observe your motivations.

>>2430657
The health of the nation and the health of the individual are conjoined at the hip. It's why pot smoking degenerates such as yourself like to light up on the weekends but never would get caught dead in Meth Town, Kansas. Individualism is a lie.

>>2430675
>Unironically using the word degenerate to describe harmless behaviors you don't approve of
Nice meme

>>2430675

I know plenty of smokers from everywhere, old and young, rich or poor. What is degenerate and what isnt depends entirely on how much of society is exposed to it and familiar with it's use to imagine and judge a responsible usage. I dont smoke weed but i know people who would literally die from headaches and other ailments without it.

Society and humanity as a whole adapt. We are all an ever evolving form, and it is more human to find a way to normalize and structure things than to live in a perpetual state of denial and threat of cruelty. People like to break rules just because they are rules too.

Coffee and Tea became accepted, alcohol became acceptable, unmarried sex and gay sex became acceptable(once again), addictive trash food is not even fully understood as bad but people wont even think of banning them, only promoting responsability, it's all in the standards.

>>2430657
hmmm. Better public health? Measurably less drug addicts?

No no, that can't possibly be why, it must be about not being fun at parties or something (^:

>>2430675
watch this guy disassociate individual actions from collective results. It's coming

>>2430760
>anecdotes, implying statistical diversity changes objective trends, relativistic morality, "but we can adapt to chronic poison exposure!", lack of any scientific rigor

>>2430760
You're wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. The opioid crisis and the obesity epidemic are making the US a non viable nation. It's time to take out the garbage

>>2430771

I mean, if you dont have people anymore they wont need better health, technically.

Lets just outlaw life and spare us the chase.

>>2430555
>oh shit someone said something inconvenient about women and my worldview feels threstened.
Uhhh, you're a virgin.

>>2430783

Some fag with a vape machine slightly annoying you isnt a crisis

>>2430783
The prison industrial complex is making the US slaves to corporate interests.

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>>2430789
I'm really scratching my head about how this is getting turned into a genocide debate, lol. Not even remotely the principle

>>2430802
sure is as an overall statistic

>>2430801
Misquote?

>>2430802
It's not the habits I'm attacking it's the mentality. Obesity rates being considered a threat to national security seems to be the conclusion of "well as long as it's not hurting me..."

>>2430822
Obesity is the result of subsidized corn production. Literally no other western nation has such an absurd obesity rate despite being on the same technological level. If a single person gets fat he's probably just lazy. If an entire nation gets fat in a rather short period of time then the problem is likely elsewhere.

>>2430831
citation on the corn production fact. And that's untrue to my knowledge, every country that adopts a western diet has been getting much fatter.

I've heard the cause may be fructose/sugar, or alternatively wheat depending on the speaker

>>2430831
This. We eat too much corn because we make too much corn because we subsidize too much fucking corn.

Seriously do research on corn subsidies. What's worse is that were absolutely wrecking Africa's agriculture because we're flooding their markets with corn.

>>2430849
>i heard the cause may be fructose/sugar

High fructose corn syrup. Again, corn.

>>2430849
What do you mean by "western diet"? Because gobbling up HFCS burgers is not western diet, it's American garbage.

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>>2430849
>I've heard the cause may be fructose/sugar
Exactly. Corn fructose.

>>2430854
well yeah, but he said "Corn production" which could mean just about anything

>>2430855
mcdonalds is worldwide by now. So yeah, if you throw in a coca cola it is

>>2430871
McDonalds being worldwide doesn't mean everyone is eating McDonalds. In Europe it's actually seen as a niche food rather than something you should consume every day.

>>2430831

Its funny that these anons were arguing to give absolute power to the state to stop drug addiction when it's the state that pushes the most devastating, most ubiquitous drug, the only that satisfies the lowest animal impulse in men.

>>2429959
Because my taxes will be paying for your decomposing ass when you start dying from cirrhosis.

Not to mention the deaths caused by your drunk driving and regular wife beatings Cletus.

>>2429959
>why the FUCK
What is it with this reddit fashion of capitalizing the word fuck recently?

>>2430555
Not to mention he was a narcissistic cunt who thought himself an adonis in flesh.

I'm sure if his head wasn't up his ass he could have gotten some

>>2430378
So I guess you think the state should control how much soda you can buy too? Because I guarantee you diabetes and obesity kill many more people than any illegal drug. Also since you're so fond of empirical evidence, take a look at how the decriminalization of drugs in Portugal has worked

>>2430926
"You're too much of a loser to get women" is a "You're too poor to afford heroin" tier argument.

>>2428789

Even under the most generous of studies (Miron, Jeffrey A.; Zwiebel, Jeffrey), usage climbed back to 70% within a few years, and those users who had been consuming beer were now consuming hard liquor exclusively.

Well done, temperance movement.

>>2430909

> Every single person who drinks beer consumes at least 2 six packs a night.

If you had ever tried anything that wasn't shitty light lager, you'd realize that normal lagers or ales are way too filling for that.

costs to much to prohibited anything from humans, were to damn smart (sometimes for our own good). Make everything legal just tax it to cover the negative effects and let people make there own choice be them good or bad.

>>2430459
Reminder muslims who say alcohol is bad will turn around and chew khat, fucking hypocrites

>>2430783
You realize the opiod crisis is due to doctors prescribing Oxycontin/Oxycodone liberally right? No one wants to be a heroin addict.

>>2431001
Soda pop is as bad as alcohol over the long term and you damn well know it. It isn't excessive or at all contradictory to say that sugar regulation is the next step in public health. Were we not talking seconds ago about fructose?

>>2431094
IE 30% below usage pre-prohibition

>>2431098
I realize that and purposely used hyperbole to prove my point.

Alcohol has disastrous social consequences. This is something many drunkards seemingly deny, but it's a well studied phenomenon.

The question is, does this danger justify some form of regulation (as is done with heroin, coke, etc)? So far, the consensus is generally "no".

But people who say prohibition (which admittedly is quite extreme regulation) doesn't work are wrong. Prohibition DID reduce alcohol consumption.

Similarly in Sidney, an alcohol curfew has significantly reduced violence and hooliganism.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38989001

Therefore, the question isn't whether regulation is effective or not, because it clearly is. The question is whether the substantial societal consequences of alcohol justify a reduction in personal liberty.

>>2431200

Are you advocating making sucrose a prohibited substance?

> IE 30% below usage pre-prohibition

Why did you ignore the bit about how that 70% gave up beer and wine altogethet and were now consuming hard liquor, often times well over 40% ethanol? Iron law of prohibition, and all that.

And only for the low, low price of a murder rate nearly twice as high in 1932 as in 1910 or 1945.

>>2429490
>Mississippi is a different case it's basically another country
You just destroyed your entire argument

>>2431264
source: your ass

I'm glad we've gotten past this

>>2430378
>I got blown the fuck out, and can't come up with an actual response.

Well, at least you conceded defeat. Shame you wouldn't do it honestly.

>>2430553
>Ok, butthurt stoner faggot detected

Yeah, because murdering people for providing a service the public wants is totally non-monstrous.

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>I think the state should ban alcohol consumption

>>2431494
This. The only people that think this are religious lunatics and fedora tippers.

>>2431361

> Source: your ass

But wait, you think. He gave dates. Could it be he has a graph?

http://www.jrsa.org/projects/Historical.pdf
(Page 6)

Looks like something really made that murder rate plummet in 1933.

>>2431533
or muh deeeeejunnerassee xD shitposters

>>2431562
>Why did you ignore the bit about how that 70% gave up beer and wine altogethet and were now consuming hard liquor,

he doesn't have citations for this faggotry, the other stuff I'm aware of

>>2431586
Those could be either of those, but are mostly the latter of those, since 4chan social conservatism seems to be a matter of "other people are having fun and I'm not, therefore we must make that fun illegal."

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>>2430455
The speech of a maiden should no man trust
nor the words which a woman says;
for their hearts were shaped on a whirling wheel
and falsehood fixed in their breasts

>>2431590

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchian%E2%80%93Allen_effect

"It states that when the prices of two substitute goods, such as high and low grades of the same product, are both increased by a fixed per-unit amount such as a transportation cost or a lump-sum tax, consumption will shift toward the higher-grade product. This is true because the added per-unit amount decreases the relative price of the higher-grade product."

Why the fuck is any bootlegger going to risk his profits and his freedom running the less potent, dense, and profitable beer or wine when distilled liquor exists.

Business 101. Shit man, Mises wrote an entire book on this exact subject called the Economics of Prohibition.

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>>2428789
>women get the vote
>immediately pass the most retarded, emotion-driven legislation in history that blows up in everyone's face

>>2431659
kek

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>>2431621

This is also why heroin deaths are strongly correlated with opioid use, and why any pull back on prescription is likely to result in more deaths.

First you get hooked on pharmacy grade pills, then when you prescription runs out, you go to a dealer. Except they aren't carrying those piss-ant little pills, because the profit isn't there.

And now you're a heroin addict.

Basically Hitler is the reason any kind of state that revolves around keeping the nation healthy and fit through civic associations will fail. People will screech about fascism and lolbertarians will say you cannot infringe on the rights of your 400 lb neighbor to turn Wendy's into his church.

Somehow smoking cigarettes became a faux pas though.

Thanks Hitler.

>>2431689

Short of pointing a rifle in someone's face, you aren't going to get 80% of our nation's 30/60-year-olds going to the gym after pointing in 8 hours at the office.

It's likely going to require either rising food costs to reduce the number of calories the US consumes, or rising gas costs that force more of us to shuffle our fat asses around to get to work.

>>2431735
Not endlessly subsidizing corn so not everything is loaded with cheap sweeteners would be a good start.

>>2431677
Dealers do sell pills, it's just that the pills are far more expensive than heroin. A single oxycontin pill will cost you more than a gram of smack in a lot places.

>>2431735
Communist countries managed to do it without forcing people to do it at gunpoint.

>>2431770
>communist countries
>anyone but party officials getting fat

Maximum overkek.

>>2431735
I wonder what would happen to the SSRI market if people were forced to exercise at gun point.

Makes you think it does it does.

>>2431781

It makes me think the kind of person who'd sign up to point that gun probably has a lower IQ and even lower self-esteem than a TSA agent.

>>2431781
Probably expand immensely due to the sudden jump in PTSD induced anxiety.

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>>2429554
> Utah
> Christian

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>>2431790
You don't know that anon. Don't you want to exercise with your friends and maybe frolic with the bund of German girls after?

It is not so bad. I promise.

>>2431804

> Exercise with friends

Fuck no. The weight room is my time, people want to talk when I'm trying to focus, and I hate having to un-rack between sets.

>>2429988
>You're a fucking dipshit. Slippery slopes are actually applicable in government matters and law due to the way precedents work.
except that fact you know... that Prohibition did not lead to a totalitarian state, you idiot.

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>>2431689
> lolbertarians will say you cannot infringe on the rights of your 400 lb neighbor to turn Wendy's into his church.

No, I will yell at you because, based on statistics, I've been doing diet and exercise for far longer and with better results than you, but that's still not going to stop you from trying to tell me how I should change to fit whatever shit standards you came up with.

So now I have to spend twice as long to do every little task I'm already doing, once your way to satisfy you nosy fuckers, and then again in order to get the results I want.

>>2431851
Because it acted on already existing legal precedents for amending the constitution and didn't make the death penalty a reasonable way to modify people's lives, you goddamn imbecile.

>>2431621
oh, so you don't actually have a citation. Hahah, I'm laughing

>>2429467

Did I sleep through the cigarette prohibition?

>>2431901

It's still more evidence than you've given on where all those ale and lager tankers were in the 20s/30s, Mr “Every intoxicant is Khamr!".

But we both know that you're actually just a shit posting Canadian, and research isn't nearly as much fun as being contrarian.

>>2431946
you mean the straight fact that alcohol use declined under prohibition? No, no! We've got to invent just-so facts about everyone drinking liquid heroin. You've heard everything I have to say and all you've said is easily dismissed or pathetic- there is no argument here

>>2428789

t. Lucky Luciano

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>>2428789
OP needs a drink.

>>2429969
>the government needs to intervene in markets that are inefficient
>it's not fair that alcohol use indirectly raises my taxes
>also I think we should put nonviolent offenders on death row despite the absolutely unbelievable financial waste it is to host an execution in the US, and pay for the overhaul in the state legal apparatus that would be required to even begin to enforce my puerile draconian fantasies

Your shitty ideas would fuck you and society over far harder than the status quo ever could

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>>2430437

>>2431959
His Wikipedia article linked me to "The Economics of Prohibition". The chapter "The Potency Of Illegal Drugs" which includes the following information...

>liquor became relatively cheaper than beer
>consumption of liquor relative to beer increased (this was reversed after repeal)
>the total quantity of alcohol purchased declined while the potency of alcohol consumed increase
>despite this, beer consumption still increased during prohibition
>total alcohol consumption remained relatively stable throughout prohibition
>a proliferation of highly potent and dangerously adulterated alcohol occurred during prohibition

>>2432110
>despite this, beer consumption still increased during prohibition
that's false

>>2429183
Guns, drugs and sex have entirely different properties, effects and uses. I agree with your conclusion but your reasoning of "banning shit doesn't work" is too simplistic. Guns are not addictive. Drugs don't cause pregnancy. Sex doesn't give you the power to blow a hole in someone's chest from 100 feet away. Likewise, while a gun owner may know a lot about using guns and a drug user knows a lot about using drugs, this doesn't make them informed about drugs/guns in a wider social context and how to effectively prevent misuse of them, in fact they are likely to be highly biased.

>>2432058
the health "market" for drugs is not efficient- it's natural state is ballooning social problems. Vice money can be squeezed like a balloon to fill any recreational niche, we can tax it from other sources when the funds do not exist. As for your "nonviolent offenders" (I laugh, the drug trade is not nonviolent), they are a statistically inferior class of people prone to impulse problems and low social status. Everyone benefits by eliminating the drug problem

the most juvenile fantasy of all is this libertarian disease, where truly effective methods such as I advocate are dismissed on petty emotional grounds

>>2432910
>As for your "nonviolent offenders" (I laugh, the drug trade is not nonviolent

Most users don't need violence at all to acquire drugs. Even most dealers don't do this because it attracts attention and retribution. Go back to your movies faggot.

>>2432631
Poorly phrased text.
Beer expenditure steadily increased from 1921 to 1929, with a slight drop in 1930 (last year of data collection). This increased expenditure was in spite of beer becoming cheaper to produce and distribute.

>>2432910
Buying into an amoral or immoral supply chain is not just an issue with illegal drugs, though with drugs it is a problem exacerbated by prohibition.

>>2432058
Not to mention that despite the stereotype, most drug users have jobs and losing even 1% of the population to genocide would have a significant economic impact. The outrage from family and friends would destabilize the nation as well as inspire extrajudicial killings, just like in the Philippines, where homeless kids and petty thieves are killed with impunity because durrhurr justice means I get to kill people. Edgelords don't really consider these factors though. Just kill enough people they dislike and all our problems will magically fade away.

>>2432910
this is some pretty bad prose bruv
if this is the language of abstinence, I think I'll get another pint.

>>2432935
The thing with the philippines is that the big street drug is meth. Before duterte, one could be pretty sure their taxi driver or the average construction worker was on shabu, since it was the easiest way to deal with the fact that the maximum working day is mostly a fiction in the philippines. The money going into enlarging law enforcement budgets and bounties could have been better spent in actual economic stimulus, which would allow the reduction of the necessary working day for impoverished filipino's.

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>>2432910
>the most juvenile fantasy of all is this libertarian disease, where truly effective methods such as I advocate are dismissed on petty emotional grounds

Replacing "libertarian" with "religious":
>the most juvenile fantasy of all is this religious disease, where truly effective methods such as I advocate are dismissed on petty emotional grounds

>>2432926
This does not necessarily mean an increase in beer consumption, simply that the total cost of beer consumed was greater than before prohibition. I'm no expert on these matters, though. Could you elaborate further?

>>2432967
An estimated $136 Million was spent on beer in 1921. This steadily increased to $864 Million in 1929. The book notes that during this period, beer became cheaper to produce & distribute.

>>2432910

>he thinks that there would be anywhere near as much violence related to drugs if the cartels were made irrelevant overnight by legalising it all and having it for sale in Walmart

>>2432977
But it does not necessarily follow that the beer that made it to market was of greater quantity than before. We could attribute the increase of price both to the increased logistical costs of getting to market and the scarcity that follows from such.
I'm not saying that this is definitely the case, I may very well be wrong, but that we do not have enough information present to make a definite judgement.

>>2432992
>every two bit crack dealer would just get a job at McDonald's when you can buy crack at the local crack repository and all those nice cartel guys would just have an IPO

Violence and crime would skyrocket

>>2433018

Why would it? What are they going to do? Their main source of income is gone. Can't afford to pay 57338 goons to hack up students and make random bus passengers fight each other to the death, because their business model collapsed overnight.

Did the mob get more violent after prohibition was repealed?

>Oh it's okay I only do heroin socially at parties with friends
>But look at this study that says certain types of cocaine can give minimal health benefits equivalent to just doing a half added exercise regime
>But our ancestors have been using opium for centuries, civilization was founded in it

Drinkers really need to be honest and admit they have major issues. They talk about "moderation" but on average, about one in six Americans report binge drinking, and those who say that they binge drink ingest an average of eight drinks per binge about four times per month, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Alcohol abuse is so common that it's the 4th leading cause in preventable deaths. The moderation they talk about is overstated and our culture not only tolerates abusing the substance in certain cases but even promotes it. They need to take a honest assessment of themselves instead of hiding behind platitudes and excuses.

>>2433036
>eight drinks per binge
Fucking lightweights

>>2433036
Moderation in the amount of binge drinking one performs
cmon man would you rather me and the lads just had fish and chips on the weekends?
or, better question, would we?

>>2433033
Low level crack dealing gangs would move on to other criminal activities, they're not going to get honest jobs.

>>2433055
Like what

>>2433079
I dunno anything. Strong arm robbery. Protection rackets. Whatever. They're not getting straight jobs.

People seem to refuse acknowledge current drug laws are in some weird meme compromise position where all major parties involved (dealers, cartels, lawyers, police, rehab clinics, drug users themselves) are all kept happy while making everyone a lot of money along the way.

The idea that you can't stamp this out totally is unfounded. And of course full legalization has its own problems.

>>2433101
>you can't stamp this out totally is unfounded
It has a lot more factual basis than the idea that you can stamp it out, especially if your society values liberty and personal freedom.

>>2432904
>Guns are not addictive.
I beg to differ

>>2433101
>I dunno anything. Strong arm robbery. Protection rackets. Whatever. They're not getting straight jobs.
coulda just stopped after "I dunno" because you sure as heck don't.

>>2433137
It's all illegal in the first place. Do not play the liberty card. Stamping it out is simply a matter of no longer looking the other way, actually enforcing the law and changing mandatory sentencing so they actually mean something.

Not that I necessarily advocate this approach. But the idea you can't kill demand is simply something everyone accepts to keep the current revolving door policy to keep everyone fat and happy and quiet. The state traditionally always benefited from a vibrant black market in roundabout ways. Even in places like DPRK.

>>2433101
Not him, but the Italian mobsters generally just went legal after prohibition ended. Most Italian-Americans are now completely normal people unlike in the 1930s when a good chunk of them was connected to the Mafia in one way or another.

>>2433169
kek that's wrong though

Italians spent another 50 years in straight crime after prohibition before they really actually went legit.

Italian mafia in america was also always heavily involved in the heroin trade too the idea that they avoided it is a total Hollywood meme

>>2431735
>It's likely going to require either rising food costs to reduce the number of calories the US consumes, or rising gas costs that force more of us to shuffle our fat asses around to get to work.
or raise the health insurance for people that are overweight

>>2433187
>the idea that they avoided it is a total Hollywood meme
I know it's a meme, but the biggest name in heroin trade was actually the Jewish mob, not Italians. Jews basically controlled heroin, gambling and prostitution rings from the 40s onwards (they were the ones to kickstart Las Vegas, too).

>>2433101
>They're not getting straight jobs
So? You're still cutting off a major source of income and power for them. Protection rackets and robbery aren't nearly as lucrative as drug dealing.

>>2433252
Uh huh and tell me what happens when semi illiterate criminal gangs are cut off from their bread and butter income?

>>2433256
They get weaker. Less income means less capital to fund other projects and acquire resources, just like any other business. Ask Blockbuster what happens when demand for your main product vanishes.

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>>2433272
wew lad

>>2430437
>>2429467

no it doesn't

>>2433101
>I dunno anything
Is this your expert criminological viewpoint?

>>2433284
>inability to acquire revenue weakens a business
This isn't even Economics 101, this is just common sense

>>2433272
>>2433284
>le gluttonous bear of defeat

aaand court is dismissed

>>2433288
>expecting expert language in a colloquial debate

you sound like a lot of fun at parties

>>2433305
Yes. It weakens the business.

What are they all going to now?

Nobody has an answer.

Legalization would send crime through the roof. Restricting them to the drug trade systemizes it all and keeps all neat and under the lid.

>>2433317
I don't want expert language, I just want something that at least resembles an educated opinion.

>>2433321
>What are they all going to now?
>Nobody has an answer.
Probably sit around and post on /his/

t. wop

>>2433317
I'd wager a little more fun than teetotallers

>>2433321
Of the top of my head? Selling fake sunglasses, selling fake bags, the ol' designer leather jacket trick, used car salesman, club bouncer, selling fake watches, selling prescription drugs, receipt scams, or maybe just mcdonalds.
These aren't as lucrative of trades, but hey, it's a living.

>>2429988

>The precedent for further manipulation is already set.

The precedent is set by making murder illegal. Either the government has the right to modify human behavior, or it doesn't.

>>2431959
Alcohol use sharply declined immediately after, but climbed afterwards and was at 80% pre prohibition levels by the time they abolished it (it was initially 30% when prohibition first took effect),

>>2433395
>I can't see the difference between maintaining the basic right to life that's necessary for the function of society and preventing people from making bad choices about their bodies.

Oh, oh my. I feel so bad for your mother. She must cry herself to sleep knowing her son is this stupid.

>>2428789
perhaps so but the way they approached it was pants on head retarded. tax the shit out of it and ride that negative stigma and the U.S might have been alcohol free by itself within twenty years.

Harm is not a justifiable reason to ban things, otherwise football, rugby, mountain climbing, cars, privately held guns, burgers, candy etc all have to go.

Also: How dare anyone try and tell anyone else what they are allowed to do with their body? Fuck those people and pass me my rifle.

>>2428789
>g'ment controls what I may consume
>freedom
USA! USA! USA!

>>2429183
>States that teach abstinence have higher teenage and out of wedlock birth rates

Fake liberal narrative Washington DC has the highest teenage pregnancy rate. It's about race has nothing to do with abstinence education.

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>>2430152
Smoking weed in itself isn't enlightened. Smoking weed whilst not drinking alcohol is enlightened.

MDMA is even more ascended.

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>>2433764

>Marijuana is a neurotoxin
http://www.sciencealert.com/cannabis-harms-the-brain-but-thats-not-the-full-story
www.jneurosci.org/content/18/14/5322.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24118193

>Casual use alters the nucleus accumbans, associated with reward and pleasure
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/casual-marijuana-smoking-linked-to-brain-changes-041614

>The brains of chronic users produce less dopamine
http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223%2813%2900502-7/abstract

>Marijuana lowers IQ
http://www.forbes.com/sites/travisbradberry/2015/02/10/new-study-shows-smoking-pot-permanently-lowers-iq/
http://www.pnas.org/content/109/40/E2657.abstract

>cannabis-impaired approximately doubles car crash risk and that around one in 10 regular cannabis users develop dependence. Regular cannabis use in adolescence approximately doubles the risks of early school-leaving and of cognitive impairment and psychoses in adulthood. Regular cannabis use in adolescence is also associated strongly with the use of other illicit drugs. These associations persist after controlling for plausible confounding variables in longitudinal studies.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.12703/abstract

>Marijuana induces schizophrenia-like brain changes, which may result in psychosis
http://psychcentral.com/lib/cannabis-may-cause-schizophrenia-like-brain-changes
http://www.livescience.com/17707-marijuana-thc-brain-psychosis.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/270262.php

>Marijuana can cause pulmonary disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25624312

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>>2433769
>tfw I know
>tfw I still blaze it anyway
Truly, I am unstoppable.

>>2432958
>let's replace X ideology with different Y ideology
>Y ideology BTFO!!!!!!

gb2deddit

>>2431659
women didn't get the right to vote until after they cucked men into passing temperance, retard

>>2433053
moderation is a fictitious concept. People drink "moderately" in accordance with their friends, not objective terms at all. Mythology

>>2433101
absolutely. The drug laws are a preverted half-state that exist only to make le weed edgy. True prohibition would end this state

>>2433610
you must equate the quantitative measure of the harm. Not all of the same category is the same in effect, anon

>>2433764
MDMA gives you brain damage and delusional thinking like this

>>2433774
>xDDD degeneration is kool! I'm a drug addict! This wins da argument guise

>>2432958
Ironic, drug addicts are literally getting euphoric. But calling for public health is bad bcuz of a fedora pic!

>>2434647
You need to chill the fuck out bro. Smoke some trees or something. I know that this whole neoreactionary "le joe mccarthy wuz rite and prohibition totes begotes worked dudez" is in counter-cultural vogue right now, but you really do come across as a silly, eurphoric asshat when you unironically advocate these things. Just trying to watch out for you is all.

>>2434706
I'd say you need to die, but you're already killing yourself. Hedonism is cancer; if you can't get your morality erect arguing for a good society you've got millenial ED. But then again I already know you're an underage welp

>>2434647
>you must equate the quantitative measure of the harm. Not all of the same category is the same in effect, anon
No I don't, desu. It is perfectly reasonable to assert that potential harm, in of itself, is no reason to go around banning things. Lots of activities we indulge in, that we wouldn't countenance trying to prohibit as a society, carry the potential to do us harm. Therefore 'it gives you cancer/lowers dopamine levels/causes you to act like a dick' is not a valid argument for prohibition.

>>2434888
so you're saying, that le weed should b legal bcuz it ain't no alcohol... but all harm is equal so the pain of no gf is as bad as losing an arm! Holy shit, what a genius of the ethical calculus we have here good thing nobody intuitively believes this bullshit

>>2434716
*tips fedora*

You keep on enlightening them filthy hedonists, brudder. Maybe once people stop pursuing pleasure, girls will finally like you.

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>mfw OP is some underage kid who isn't even old enough to drink in the first place

>Suffrage happens
>Alcohol gets banned
Women getting the vote was a mistake

>>2434984
>muh girls
>mattering
Not him but how is this an argument

>>2434923
No, Cleetus. I'm saying that the burden of demonstrating the great harm, over and above other legal activities, lies with the prohibitionist.

Good luck explaining why weed should be banned while the much more pernicious cigarettes and alcohol are legal, though.

Or, indeed, why it should be banned while men under thirty or so should be allowed to drive. I would argue that causes much more death, injury, and destruction.

With weed as the example (or any drug, for that matter), I bet you'd struggle to show comparable levels of harm outside of consequences that are a direct result of prohibition. All you have to do is give yearly figures for death and severe injury per hundred tokers in excess of the numbers of under thirty year old male drivers killed and injured every year.

Off you pop. I can wait while you Google.

>>2435039
It's not. It's defusing his fantasy of being some enlightened champion of morality. He's an edgy, socially maladjusted moron.

>>2435106
I've already demonstrated my points base by base. Politics is a mess of stupid compromises- in a perfect world alcohol and tobacco would be equally banned or restricted. I'd even be for easing weed laws and tightening alcohol laws if it ever had support, but the drunks think it's their bible. Anyways, just look at the stats for singapore and come back with another post about it impairs liberty and therefore drug control is bad. Because that's all we have to talk about at this point

Cars are part of necessary public transportation. Weed is not. You've only to look at the medical papers (and there are dozens) of them to realize that marijuana is harmful, that's not even in debate. As for the fears of prohibition, it's okay to break a few eggs in the process if the initial costs are nothing- singapore executes hardly anyone today as a fraction of their population precisely because they cleared the swamp.

Understand that toxicity can impair without killing, and that the effects can be just as bad as a social statistic overall

>>2435137
I sure am. You've got nothing to argue on besides "but dat works too well!" lol, I'm absolutely in the moral right here and you've got nothing to argue except vice

>>2435172
>I sure am. You've got nothing to argue on besides "but dat works too well!" lol, I'm absolutely in the moral right here and you've got nothing to argue except vice

Throughout this discussion, you've continually ignored points counter to your own, even going so far as summarizing an entire post against you as "WAAAAH." You don't have a leg to stand on; you're an infantile moron, and the tide will remain turning against your position.

>>2435191
you don't have any points meaningful to discuss boy. I wrapped this discussion up a day and a half ago, and here I am babysitting you about how your feelings somehow effect demonstrably successful programs

>>2434647
>MDMA gives you brain damage and delusional thinking like this
MDMA gives you good times.

>>xDDD degeneration is kool! I'm a drug addict! This wins da argument guise
Looks like you got a little brain damage yourself, bud.

>>2435204
Danth's law.

>>2435172
>I've already demonstrated my points base by base.
No you haven't. There's a lot of 'might' and 'can' and 'could' in those reports and none of them are as serious as the injuries caused by a high-speed car accident.

Cars by the way, aren't necessary, or the human race would have had a very short history. They are convenient, which is very different, and the environmental collateral damage they cause adds to the harm they do - including the pulmonary disease cited in one of your studies. They are an absolute human suffering disaster.

As mentioned before, you'll have to think of a better reason than 'harm' for your puritanical prohibition.

>>b-b-but it's bad for you, anon.

Mind your own fucking business.

>>2434706
The most reddit post I've read today.

>>2435218
wow, a post from rational wiki which everybody hates! Guess that proves something besides you're a fedora

>>2435205
good times can be had without having brain damage. faggot

>>2435252
Yeah. That's how we talk about toxicity because the variables are not easy to determine. We don't say X table salt for all people will kill you, we say table salt Causes hypertension in large doses. Physiology varies, but pathways do not. Marijuana is demonstrably harmful, you've only need to read this thread or google the volume of health reports to see this is true. If you want drug use to end, singapore's methods are excellent. That's all I really need to say

As for that post you're linking, that guy was actually not me. Anyways, trying to say that we should ban cars is fallacious given that (self-evident) cars are required by today's economy to allow transportation. Do you think we need weed to get to work? of course not, that's not a requirement at all.

Public health is perhaps the greatest rationale and good, as far as moral reasons for state intervention is concerned. You can disagree with it but that's the extent of our interaction

Since we're talking about banning things, let's ban americans from posting so that shitshows like this thread can't happen.

>>2435319
What, in your opinion, is an example of a good time? I'm genuinely curious.

>>2435351
you can actually get high meditating. I know because I've done it, you constrict your breathing and Oxycontin is released among other things. Also, endorphins can be had from running and exercise

happiness for me is a cat on my lap and a book. But for some people it's friends at a bar, and that can be okay too. It's just from a public health standpoint we don't have to drink alcohol to get together and have fun, we really don't.

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>>2429823
>anon thinks singapore is graet
woah, someones never been there

>>2435351
Hiking and swimming. BBQ with family. Coloring books with my daughter.

Back to /r/socialism complaining about how alienating the world is and why you need to light up to cope with it.

What would Jesus do? Clearly a Christian government would provide free alcohol towards its citizenry.

>>2435373
okay, so what's wrong with singapore? Their IQ is great, their GDP is great, their public health is great... pretty much everything about the country looks attractive to me

>>2435376
congratulations on having a daughter! That's great

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>>2435331
if you think this thread is a shiteshow then you need to lurk moar, babby's first thread

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>>2435366
>Hold your breath
>Your body produces Oxycontin

>>2435381
pls move there and chew gum everyday
also, are you Mandarin Chinese?

>>2435387
I usually get my oxytocin from orgasms with the qts
you should try it, anon

>>2435387
Meditation’s Role in Oxytocin Production:

Meditation can increase oxytocin’s effect on the body and greatly enhance the chemical’s beneficial effects. The mechanism for this is well-understood: meditation reduces catalysts that produce cortisol, the “stresser” hormone. Meditation reduces anxiety, fear, stress, shyness and other negative emotions associated with cortisol production. In a double benefit, meditation reduces the causes of cortisol while increasing the frequency of oxytocin. Without cortisol, oxytocin is free to provide its maximum benefit to the body. It will not only have a much more potent effect but also a more frequent appearance. In women, meditation greatly enhances the production of ocytocin. In men, meditation increases testosterone production as well, creating an optimal balance that results in a companion who is both sensitive and manly, a trait women love

I don't pretend to be a specialist, but that's how I understand it works

>>2435393
I don't chew gum. I'm white and live in a developed country

>>2435376

>property owner detected

Just wait till you get reincarnated as a neet living in a hoodlum infested megacity, with enough income for subsistence, but no north star give hope of a better life. I'm sure living in a rural area with friends and family and people you trust and can leave your door unlocked and let neighbors look after your kids and can walk down the street without looking over your shoulder in fear.

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>>2435366
Or....oxytocin

maybe that cat in your lap is reading the book but you might not be?

>>2435381

Literally muslims are the problem. There wouldn't even be a singapore if the chinese hadn't seceded malaised asia.

>>2435399
>not a rich mandarin chinese person
they dont want you in Singapore
bye now

>>2435319
>good times can be had without having brain damage. faggot
Not like MDMA.
It's like being in love.

>>2435404
I don't even know what this post is supposed to imply, anyways that's fucking stupid

>>2435407
yeah, but their Malaysian problem is in check at the moment

>>2435409
exactly why I'm never going. They're racist and have a highly competitive job market. That's great, countries aren't supposed to be for foreigners they're for locals. Cut that bullshit out and give me a real problem with the place

>>2435402
That's fine and all, I don't really care either way, its just that drug abusers always seem to want to eat at two tables "it's just harmless bro" vs "omg the world is so horrid the only way to enjoy it is via drug use". Socialist corners of the internet seem to be rife with the type that constantly abuse drugs while at the same time viewing it as a social ill.

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>>2435420
eh, you don't even read your own posts, so why should i go back and explain what is wrong to you with them.
Please go to Singapore and open a chewing gum factory. Please let us know how it goes!!

>>2435424
I've argued with you pretty much the entire time, but you actually sound like a well-educated intelligent person. So I'd like to say I respect you anyways

>>2435439
>go back and explain what's wrong with your own posts
There isn't anything. That's why I posted them

Only the dumbest nation in the world could ban alcohol.

>>2435456
t. Patty O'LearyO'ConnelO'SullivanO'Carrel

>>2435456
Dumbness is really what most Americans should be doing with their free speech

>>2435916
t. Paul François
Alcohol is unironically very important to society.
Even if it wasn't, prohibition did more harm than widespread alcoholism could have.

>>2435944
How is alcohol important in any context that isn't religious or medical?

>>2435958
social lubricant
big part of many cultures
it has actual good properties
it was used a lot when water proved unsanitary
ultimately, it's affordable luxury.

>>2435958
Drunk bitches

>>2435994
what are the good properties my man, the fact that grape juice has antioxidants?

Plebs drink beer. Romans drink vinegar water

11 years sober here

>blaming your shit behavior and existence on a beverage
>having a decent life

Pick 1. You can drink alcohol, or not, it doesn't matter.

>>2436171
wine is good for your heart.

Members of the genus Homo have been drinking alcohol since well before the appearance of homo sapiens.
So getting drunk is quite literally a more time honored and storied tradition than pretty much anything short of getting laid, taking a shit, and dying.
We have always and will always consume alcohol.

>>2436171

Roman SOLDIERS (read: plebs) drank Posca. Everyone else drank wine.

>>2435319
>good times can be had without having brain damage. faggot

The study that claimed MDMA causes brain damage was never replicated and its researcher couldn't be contacted for further questions.

>>2436303
>Members of the genus Homo have been drinking alcohol since well before the appearance of homo sapiens.

CITATION

FUCKING

NEEDED

>>2436346
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/2/458.abstract

>>2436350
>http://www.pnas.org/content/112/2/458.abstract
I'm seeing primates adapting to fermented fruit, I'm not seeing any of them 'drinking alcohol.'

>>2436350
interdasting! tx anon!

>>2436371
eating fermented fruit effectively means getting drunk, there's a reason the phrase "drunk as a skunk" exists, not just because it rhymes

>>2436371
Fair enough, they did not intentionally ferment fruit with yeast to yield an alcoholic beverage, but they did get drunk. There's also naturally fermenting palm wine which you can get just from tapping a palm tree.

http://www.livescience.com/51146-chimps-get-drunk.html.

Here's an example of that.

>>2436416
>>2436385
Eh, I guess I'm quibbling. Alright, good post and interesting, thanks.

>>2430555
>The real solution is men overcoming differences and allying with one another against women
Why would I stop fighting someone I disagree with to fight someone else I disagree with. Enemy of my enemy doesn't work if you hate the second guy just as much. Like distracting the Nazis in France and Africa so the Commies could have an even easier time carving up Eastern Europe.

Not interested.

>>2430760
>addictive trash food is not even fully understood as bad
I hate this. Find me one fucking person that doesn't understand even on a basic level that stuffing a big mac into your fat fucking face every day isn't going to kill you.

>>2436484
half of america

>>2431901
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchian%E2%80%93Allen_effect
>go to wiki page
>it has several sources listed at the bottom
?

>>2435319
>wow, a post from rational wiki which everybody hates! Guess that proves something besides you're a fedora

Yet it describes you perfectly. You spent most of this discussion getting your teeth kicked in, and then ignoring points when they were finally too much for you, only to declare victory at the end.

You're much like that old quote about playing chess with a pigeon, how it will just knock over the pieces, shit over the board, and strut about as thought it won, regardless of how you play; so the only winning move is to not play.

I lament the time of mine you have wasted.

>>2432910
>(I laugh, the drug trade is not nonviolent)
Well for one, no one said the drug trade at large is non-violent, but most end users of drugs and indeed most of their direct suppliers are non-violent.

Also, perhaps the drug trade is violent because they can't rely on lawful protection because the law itself threatens them with violence? Walmart doesn't call a hit on target for opening a store in their turf.

>calls others violent, inferior, and subject to impulse problems
>refers to large groups of people as a "disease"

>>2433321
>Legalization would send crime through the roof. Restricting them to the drug trade systemizes it all and keeps all neat and under the lid
By this logic wouldn't a heavy crackdown on the drug trade also produce a rise in crime?

Economically, I'm sure plenty of criminals involved would determine that the risks of dealing were now too high and start engaging in other forms of organized crime.

>>2433769
>draw someone you disagree as being ugly
>now write the most exaggerated version of that opinion in a speech bubble next to that ugly face
Congrats, you've made an "argument".

And saying "10% of regular users develop some sort of dependence, therefore it's valid for me to flippantly use the term 'weed addict' " is like 10 kinds of dishonest.

>>2434716
>I'd say you need to die, but you're already killing yourself
We're all dying bro. Every breath and every cell division leads you a little closer to death. You can't escape that by banning the processed form of a plant that makes you feel funny when you inhale its fumes.

Just chill.

>>2436569

> I lament the time I wasted

Mr. Singapore was too wrapped up in arguing from gut reaction. You should have realised a lot earlier he would never accept quantitative arguments.

That being said, thanks for the studies and figures. Lots to go back and chew on from the thread.

>>2436346
Bro, fucking squirrels and monkeys eat fruit fermented on the vine to "get drunk", they do this knowingly because in some way they enjoy it.

>>2436506
Wrong, fucking everyone knows they just don't care. Big difference.

>>2436569
this is pathetic. I have my stats, it's an effective model. What is your retort? Oh, you can't be right because people who say they're right can't be right!

Like a child, I put you to bed

>>2436597
you can't call a population that is violent, subjective to impulse control and thereby inferior anything but a disease

>>2436679
quote the man who has no counterargument besides "it infringes my freedom!" and "the road to serfdom"! What a devastating reply, surely those aren't emotionally based arguments!

>>2436717
>clearly because some squirrels eat shitty food, all squirrels are always trying to get drunk

hmmm

>>2436963
This is what being assblasted looks like.