Has Christanity outlived its purpose in the Modern Era? I don't

It didn't out live its purpose when after i started believing in god i was much happier and less lonely.

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>reducing an abstract concept to "usefulness"
wow...rly mkes u think...

Anyway, the purpose of Christianity is the salvation of mankind, it's never going to outlive that purpose.

Christianity can still offer a moral basis for social democracy, as it did in Europe until the 1960s.

The removal of Christianity is linked to the advance of neoliberal capitalism, and now no one knows how to roll it back without stupidly importing millions of Arabs and Africans to vote for social democratic parties.

>>2414353
This is because the average native-born America is Christian, whereas most non-Christians in the states moved here, and most have a degree because only the ones with degrees could move here.
In response to your question, I'd say "No."
There are different groups of Christianity, and, yes, the anti-science ones need to be eliminated, but Christianity, in general, is still an inspiration to many and promotes good morals for a good society.

>>2414367
You could say the same thing for people who started to smoke weed.

>>2414376
>The removal of Christianity is linked to the advance of neoliberal capitalism

Japan is non-Christian, yet they have stopped the advance of endless production/consumption dreams of neoliberal capitalism. They refuse to take in large immigration because they correctly recognize the value in homogeneity, over short term profits.

In fact it is the countries that continue to cling to Christianity that continue the policy of neoliberal capitalism, with America, one of the most religious developed countries in the World, taking the lead.

>>2414353
>Rather than being a patron of science and art, it seems like its antithesis.
Unless you're a protacuck American this isn't true.

>>2414388
>In fact it is the countries that continue to cling to Christianity that continue the policy of neoliberal capitalism
Not true. America hasn't been meaningfully Christian for decades.

>>2414388
If they are more satisfied with their life after such pursuits then how can you say it has outlived its purpose. I personally believe in dragons also because if so, the world is a much more magical place.

>>2414388
>In fact it is the countries that continue to cling to Christianity that continue the policy of neoliberal capitalism
What is Hungary, Russia, Poland, Slovakia and a score of other right wing Christian nations?

I will never understand the ironic Christianity meme on /his/

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>>2414353
As vital as Christianity was with respect to the formation of European civilization, I would say that it may have largely outlived its utility.

It needs to either evolve or be displaced. In the age of the internet, dogma is no longer intellectually tenable.

With the rise of the popularity of Eastern traditions (Mindfulness, Zen buddhism, etc..), I think Christianity needs to open up to influence to become a more perennial philosophy. Or it can rediscover the mysticism of the West that has long been displaced; neo-platonism and the like. Religion (like anything else) can only evolve when it accepts influence.

One thing that I fear will happen is the displacement of Christianity and the replacement of it with...nothing.

>>2414353
this graph can easily be explained by immigrant selection bias.

>>2414388
Japan clings to its own traditions.

And my point was more about Europe, sine the U.S. was never social democratic. Historically, a lot of social democratic policies in countries like Germany, Austria, Italy and the Netherlands were implemented either by Christian Democratic parties, or by coalitions involving them.

>>2414415
>I think Christianity needs to open up to influence to become a more perennial philosophy.
In all fairness it always was. Just to a minority of people. Same with Islam. The idea that it's easy for more people to expel dogmas based upon the ease at which we can read comparative text and those who discuss them is another thing entirely.

I kind of view it this way. You can live a paradigm (for example, the traditional Catholic catechism) or you can live the perennial tradition. Both are equal.

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>>2414401
>What is Hungary, Russia, Poland, Slovakia and a score of other right wing Christian nations?

All these countries are neoliberal capitalists. They just haven't reached the point at which immigration is necessary to sustain their social net and endless consumption/production goals of neoliberal capitalism. This is because their per capita income is so low and living standards still can improve tremendously. The only countries to resist are the least religious ones.

>>2414399
It has outlived its purpose from a macro perspective. And might even be net negative from a societal perspective.

>>2414396
>Not true. America hasn't been meaningfully Christian for decades.

America is more meaningfully Christian than virtually every other developed nation by an extremely large margin.

>>2414381
Look at Unaffiliated vs Christian.

Being Christian actively hurts your chances of graduating from College.

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>>2414430
This is what I'm struggling with. Among more spiritual or perennial-minded people, its popular to hate on dogma. However, I understand that dogma in a sense provides a necessary structure or narrative if you will that is important for a given community. Can we really have religion without it? In the age of internet, advanced science and such, we may have no choice.

I think Judaism has that balance about right; particularly Reform Judaism.

>>2414446
dude this is all self-selection + correlation ≠ causation.

>>2414388
Its no coincidence that Japan is one of the most depressed nations. In 2014, they had 70 suicides a day on average. Religion and spirituality are a vital part of the human experience. This is something atheists don't understand; or rather something that they don't want to understand.

>>2414437
>America is more meaningfully Christian than virtually every other developed nation by an extremely large margin.
the fact that Catholicism or orthodoxy don't preach young earth creationism makes your graph moot.

Cultural speaking, American Christians wield no power. They are barely able to starve off removing a copy of the 10 commandments from some random courthouse for another 5 years. Media, Academia, government are all informed by liberal progressiveism. Compare this to Poland, which recently declared Jesus to be king of Poland. You would never have that in America.

>>2414469
This. Though to be fair, Evangelical political influence was getting out of hand at one point. Their craziness should be held in check and I'd say that fedora atheism is largely a correction to that.

>>2414353
>Low IQ shitskin
>More degree than Christians

Now remove the Liberal Art Degrees, and do the same with True Science degrees like Mathematics, Physics, and so on


Also

>Pewslim forum


Not a genuine source

>>2414501
Not only are these non-arguments.

But Minorities have vastly higher participation rates in STEM.

>christianity is moral!

HUEHUAHUEHUAHUEHUAHUEHUA

>>2414469
>Jesus is king of Poland
Topkek

:lol wait until the next pope smokes a joint on television at his coronation.

>>2414402
It's the &humanities loophole.
They all belong on /x/.

>>2414509
>But Minorities have vastly higher participation rates in STEM.
WE WUZ GENIUS BUT WHITMAN A KEEPIN U DOWN


Look at your shitholes and stop daytreaming White engineers are the ones who are making this world operate you(shitskins) are merely good at begging for free gibs and killing each others.

>>2414520
>They all belong on /x/.
/x/ is occult. Theology, metaphysics, religion and mysticism belong on /his/.

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>>2414526
50% White
75% of the engineers are White, and most of the Non White "engineers" can thanks Affirmative Action.

>>2414529
>>2414520
More like /b/ or /pol/

>>2414367

Placebo, cognitive dissonance and rational ignorance are all powerful tools, anon.

>>2414381
>This is because the average native-born America is Christian, whereas most non-Christians in the states moved here
no. most non christians are christians who chose to be non religous

>>2414373

I'm genuinely curious as to why you think it is Christianity that has it right, as opposed to the Islam or all other monotheistic religions. Even within Christianity, is it the protestants or the Catholics? I'm not judging, it just seems so far-fetched to cling to one belief as the right one when the Torah, Bible and Koran are all so much alike and the internal disputes are so volatile.

>>2414468
>In 2014, they had 70 suicides a day on average
theres 150 MILLION people in japan. they be okay

>Religion and spirituality are a vital part of the human experience. This is something atheists don't understand; or rather something that they don't want to understand
im 15 years religion free and im doing pretty good. stop conflating things

>>2414662
One day you will learn philosophical materialism is just as much a philosophy/religion as anything else.

>>2414529
Literally the same exact shit.

>>2414667
you misinterpretted my implication. i said stop conflating things in reference to religion AND spirituality, not religion SLASH spirituality. religion doesnt have ownership of spirituality or philosophical thought. just like christianity doesnt own the concept of marriage

>>2414501

>more degree
>calling other people low IQ

Back to /pol/ with ye.

>>2414670
Except it's not.

>>2414670

Neck yourself you fucking tin-foil-for-fedora plebeian.

>>2414446
Christians are more likely to live in rural areas, where college is much more unrealistic, as you'd have to move far away, and other, local, jobs are better for the individual.

>>2414753
I think it's even simpler than that. Most Americans are Christians. Most Christians are natives. Jews are a group don't need an explanation, and the Hindus and Muslims who come here usually do so for the purpose of getting an education or IT job.

>>2414653
I mean religious non-Christians. Like Hindus in the States.

>>2414353
In America, the stupid tend to be either uber-religious or ne'er-do-wells. Christianity isn't a causation, it's merely a correlation.

Religion is necessary for having morals, and morals are necessary for having a society.

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>>2414812

>Religion is necessary for having morals

>>2414834
This is true. The more atheists open their mouths the more they prove it to be true.

>>2414837

Except it isn't true at all.

>>2414834
It certainly helps. A lot of bad people, and there are a lot of bad people, are kept in line by Christianity. Of course, there are still many Christian criminals, but there would be many more criminals if nobody was Christian.
I'm not saying that all Christians are good, or that all atheists are bad, but that Christianity is more likely to keep people in check.

>>2414353
Oh ffs, do people actually think it's Hinduism that enables them to get more degrees, or rather that someone from such a far-off place living here is going to be doing so because of upper-class career choices?
Jews are impressive, but otherwise the list is fucking stupid.

>>2414852

>Criminality = immorality

No.

Arbitrary rules set by the state are not morals.

Even by that logic, the existence of one non-criminal atheist would disprove the notion that religion is necessary for morality.

>>2414834
Its true on a macro-level. Having a strong religious foundation makes for a more moral and cohesive society. Of course there is a sweet spot; theocracy isnt ideal either.

>>2414839
Richard Dawkins advocated euthanizing the mentally handicapped not too long ago.

Stalin murdered 50 million in an atheist state because he didn't give a shit for the value of human life.

There was even a thread on here not too long ago arguing that morality was subjective and not objective. Atheists have done nothing but prove Christians right about morality from day one.

>>2414875

>Its true on a macro-level

Being useful =/= being necessary.

>>2414878

>Two people prove anything

No.

>Atheists have done nothing but prove Christians right about morality from day one.

Most of the time when I see these threads of people bible-thumping and proclaiming that atheists get "btfo", it is almost never the case. Christians never have an argument that doesn't depend on accepting their unverifiable foundations.

>>2414353
Christianity was a means of controlling the people. Tools to do so will never go out of date, but Christianity has been replaced to a large extent by the media

>>2414910
How do you like your new church? It's on the internet.

>>2414900
>Being useful =/= being necessary.
you're splitting hairs here.

>>2414930
and I wasnt the same anon who used the word "necessary"

>>2414910
>Christianity was a means of controlling the people.
False. Not everyone is naturally in state of retarded liberalism btw.

>>2414930

No I'm not, calling something "necessary" carries far heavier implications than calling it "useful".

They're not even close.

>>2414864
>religion is necessary for morality.
>>2414852
>I'm not saying that all Christians are good, or that all atheists are bad

You are an idiot. Read my post.
Also, most laws are, shockingly, morally based! Like, for example, rape and murder being illegal! Even if you discounted minor criminal charges, I'm certain you'll find those who aren't active religiously to be over-represented among the prison population.

>>2414936

Only idiot here is you, Christfag.

>Also, most laws are, shockingly, morally based!

And a bootlicker at that.

>>2414935
Then, no, it's not necessary, but it's certainly useful enough to keep around. Now the thread's closed, go back to redd!t to wank over how you BTFO us.

>>2414946
You're the idiot who didn't even read my post before replying to it.
And can you honestly tell me that laws protecting from murder and rape aren't moral? If so, you really prove that atheists are less likely to be moral.

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>>2414946
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

>>2414933

What's liberalism got to do with it? Christianity and all religions have been used as a means to control the people for centuries, just look at the first crusade for example - thousands of soldiers were levied in the name of god. Or look at fascist Italy, where Mussolini won the favour of the clergy and Catholic church so that the church would in turn encourage Catholics to accept a fascist state.

>>2414962
Basically saying that it's better to sacrifice in life than to go to Hell. Is that not true? I mean, for example, if my brother got a huge inheritance, but I didn't, instead of killing him to get the money, I can just let it go.

>>2414973
>Christianity and all religions have been used as a means to control the people for centuries,
Really? So atheism wasn't used to control people in the USSR and communist China?

The intention of religion is to create order in society and spiritually guide people. "Control people" is the most pleb tier interpretation on par with "all governments are mafia states" used by ancaps.

>>2414983
I think He's saying that you shouldn't give up and if God makes those demands of you it's better to make those sacrifices than to be destroyed.

>>2414986
Agreed. Guidance is good. I'm not even a Christian, myself, but I recognize the importance of guidance for society.

>>2414986
>So atheism wasn't used to control people in the USSR and communist China

Never said it didn't, don't put words in my mouth. There have been many ways of creating order used throughout history

>The intention of religion is to create order in society

Pretty much what I meant by controlling people, you say tomayto I say tomahto. Either way, if a Government wants to be strong and unite the nation it ought to use some tool to create order and unity, and religion is just one tool, else there will be endless eternal squabbles that will prevent the interests of the nation from being advanced.

>>2414656

Is everyone going to ignore this because I want to know it as well.

>>2414878

Yeah because all our Christian overseers were good-hearted people who only strove to live the most pious and virtuous lives.

Ethics is compassion (t. Schopenhauerfag) and has nothing to do with religious beliefs. Non-maleficence and benevolence, the second and third staple of medical ethics, are rational and not derived from faith.

If you truly belief that without a (false or true) belief in some all-powerful God we would engulf in total anarchy you have a problem. I do not judge religions of any kind, nor the people who follow them, but the notion that morality is solely based on some abstract notion of anticipated retribution is ridiculous and short-sighted.

>>2415031
Religion is based on convictions. Otherwise religions preaching against corruption and status quo wouldn't exist. Despite what you or the average normie thinks, the real reason for religion is transcendence. Most people who practice introverted spirituality/religion don't want to control anyone.

>>2415048
Sahih International: And We have revealed to you, [O Muúammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.

Behold! We said to the angels: “Prostrate unto Adam”: They prostrated except Iblis (Satan): He said, “Shall I prostrate to one whom Thou didst create from clay?” He said: “Seest Thou? This is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway – all but a few!” (17: 61–62)

>>2414962

Disregarded

>>2414956

Your post wasn't worth reading because it was wrong from the beginning.

>>2415107

Are you just quoting scriptures or am I supposed to read an argument of (dis)agreement in that stuff? I'm not a poet, speak rationally if you can.

>>2415136
They're not mutually exclusive.

>>2415147

I know they're not but at least try to clarify what you see in it, or what others don't.

>>2415089
>If you truly belief that without a (false or true) belief in some all-powerful God we would engulf in total anarchy you have a problem. I do not judge religions of any kind, nor the people who follow them, but the notion that morality is solely based on some abstract notion of anticipated retribution is ridiculous and short-sighted.
Nobody says that. Not here, anyway, We're saying that belief in God makes bad people less likely to carry out their heart's desire, since they believe that they'll be tortured for all eternity for it.
>>2415117
And neither are yours, but I still bother to read them before replying, you drooling retard.

>>2415172
Shit you're right anon, I spoke clouded because I had a conversation with my mother yesterday in which she said Christianity is the root of morality because it makes people strive for good. I forgot it being equally strong as deterrent.

Still I ask, is it true morality?

>>2415170
I read it as satan controlling the world and God splitting mankind into factions just to have them race against each other with the goal of beating satan, and satan usually wins.

I swear to God the trippiest shit is happening to me right now.

>>2414353
>christian
Most west "christians" are not really christian or most of them would be burned alive for sinning all the time. Most of those whores in church commit adultery on a daily basis dont get me started on how much murderers go to church either.

The full quote from Karl Marx translates as: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

>>2415215
And then he goes on to say

"in this moment I am uforic, not bcuz of some font gods blessing but bcuz I m enlightened by my own intelligence"
FUG U GAD
:DDDDD

>>2415248
;o)

>>2414353
>college degree in 2017
>indicative of intelligence
Kek

>>2414353
When you swapped "catholic" forms of Christianity that emphasize theological and philosophical education like roman Catholicism, Lutheranism and Orthodoxy for the mindless megachurch halfbread spawn of Calvinism and Pentacostalism and jerked off a big dose of retarded Creationism over it.

Christians in Europe are not less educated than the rest of their society. There is a reason this isn't the way in the US.

Heck, here in Germany I need A-levels to even study theology, and only If I get the equivalent to a masters degree (Diplom or Examen) from a state uni I can become a pastor in the protestant state church or in the german arm of the roman church.

>>2414474
>>2414381
>There are different groups of Christianity, and, yes, the anti-science ones need to be eliminated, but Christianity, in general, is still an inspiration to many and promotes good morals for a good society.

THAT.

>>2414514

Yes, he is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye89BIAx-SE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzv9DOg0ksk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V6NrLr4Wl8

>>2415089
Read some Tillich, m8. Really mate, read some Tillich.

>>2415306
>When you swapped "catholic" forms of Christianity that emphasize theological and philosophical education like roman Catholicism, Lutheranism and Orthodoxy for the mindless megachurch halfbread spawn of Calvinism and Pentacostalism and jerked off a big dose of retarded Creationism over it.
The religious foundations of America are Puritanism, deism and freemasonry. Take that for what you will.

>>2415186
What is true morality? Only some people are naturally good, and they will be naturally good, whether they're Christian, Hindu, or what.
Many will become religious leaders, though, to preach their natural goodness in a way that's understandable.
Some people just can't have "true morality," but morality induced by fear of Hell is good enough for me, if it keeps them from killing people, man.
I respect you for recognizing that your view was clouded, Anon.

How can facts outlive its purpose?

>>2415347
Most people weren't deist Freemasons, only our leaders.

>>2415357
But our intellectual class welded a lot of significant clout in the cultural sphere. You must acknowledge at least this.

>>2415405
Yes, but they didn't create the religions followed by out average Joes.

>>2415172

You do yourself a favor reading mine because then you get to see what a semblance of intelligence looks like you neanderthal.

>>2415425
I know. My point is their influence, not their numbers.

>>2415431
If you're what's considered a "semblance of intelligence," nowadays, I truly fear for the future of humanity.
>>2415442
Influence on culture, not so much on the religious views. Then again, I'm not too educated on this topic, the evolution of American faiths.

>>2415454

And if you morons who don't know the meaning of the word "necessary" are supposed to be considered intelligent, we're already doomed.

>>2414353
>as Christanity outlived its purpose in the Modern Era?

Are there still sinners? Last time I looked, there were. So your answer is "No."

>>2415461
What are you even talking about, now? Which post had elicited this response in you?

>>2414458
>Can we really have religion without it?

Yes. What you can't have is a community of faith defined by common beliefs. You can only have a personal faith uncoupled from community or history.

>>2414418
That and immigration from Latin America.

>>2414656
Let me get this straight. Your objection is against any particular creed or denomination or religion. Your objection is against the possibility that there could even be one creed or denomination or religion that is more right/correct/truthful than any other?

If this is so, then your salvation is very doubtful. You have become disinterested in truth. Your interest in reality or truth has been reduced to the banal interest in whether it rains tomorrow or whether some sports team wins a game or not.

>>2414353
Confusing correlation and cause

>>2414656

In broad strokes, Christianity best understands what it is to be human before God, and proposes the only real solution to the basic problem of our situation which our condition permits.

In terms of the general shape of reality, Christianity correctly recognises that the many, contingent, and corruptible (including humans) are intrinsically the product of and defined by their relation to that which is One, necessary and incorruptible- that is, God. This gives them the advantage of being able to affirm contingent reality (rather than reject it as an illusion as in many Dharmic religions), and also to confront the inadequacy of contingent reality on its own (an inadequacy many Dharmic religions grok, but modern materialists don't). Monotheism thus being the only tenable view of reality, eliminates vast swathes of error.

Within monotheism, Christianity properly understands how man ought to relate to the One. It understands that human happiness consists ultimately in knowing and living in right relation with one's first cause (so far, so Aristotelian), but it also grasps man's intrinsic inadequacy as a contingent creature, to know (and thereby achieve proper union with) his first cause. This gap between men and God is the essence of the Christian doctrine of sin, and it is the source of the incongruity between that to which we are capable of aspiring- unqualified happiness, and what we are in practice capable of achieving. It recognises the need for divine intervention to perfect this relationship (the starting point of a distinctly theological approach).

(cont'd)

>>2415680

(cont'd)

As to the kind of intervention required to fill this metaphysical gap, only Christianity comes anywhere close to a coherent solution. Neoplatonists/gnostics cannot posit an ultimate union of the soul with the divine, unless they go all the way and shed our very contingency. But to do this is simply to posit the destruction of the human being, rather than his salvation. Jews and Muslims and others who trust in a code and the sheer power of God, are correct as far as they go, but do not answer precisely what kind of divine action is necessary to achieve the union of man and God without either compromising divinity or destroying man. Only Christianity, in preaching the Incarnation (that is, the union of the divine and human natures in a single person and life), and unqualified happiness by sharing in the Incarnation, posits a coherent ground of unqualified human fulfilment.

So reason, at least to me, seems to point to Christianity as the true and complete fulfilment of man's proper end (needless to say, I've glossed over a lot of stuff).

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>>2415680
>>2415684
I liked this, thank you for typing that out.

I am unashamed to say I copied it all down and made some tweaks for my own use.

Have a funny by way of payment, such as it is.