>Christ spoke Aramaic >New Testament was written in Greek

>>2387295
so lay people can't know the text of the bible, only what you tell them

interestingly there are many surviving medieval bible plays that were based on stories from non-canonical gospels, like the story of jesus as a boy bringing clay birds to life from the gospel of thomas

because Latin mass is spoopy and is done in a spoopy supernatural way, it's like when non German speaking journalists used to go to hitler rallies and get totally hypnotized by hitler all the same

>>2387295

Because they are WE WAZ ROMANZ

>>2387308
that story made it into the Quran though

>>2387295
Before getting into the actual argument, when exactly in pre-VCII history would the majority of Catholics speak English?

>>2387295
The Roman Empire spoke Latin primarily. And it's the Roman Catholic Church.

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>>2388217
The Roman Empire spoke Greek for longer than it spoke Latin, actually.

>>2387295

Because they at least knew the Latin translation was basically accurate to the original texts. Before the invention of the printing press, all sorts of bad vernacular translations were in circulation, and the Church was worried that heresy could sprout up by accident.

Then the Reformation happened and the Protestants championed sermons in the vernacular, so it looked to them that this policy was vindicated. Maybe if the Reformation hadn't happened we might have seen the Church embrace the printing press and start doing official translations earlier than they did. As it was, that didn't happen.

Not defending the policy as such, just explaining it from their point of view.

>>2387295
Because:
>Latin is fucking beautiful
>Latin is politically neutral
>Latin is part of living tradition of Church that apostles gave us
>Latin is good for making dogma clear
>Latin is languge of Vulgate, a translation that had more orginal source material than any modern ones
>Latin is universal languge of Latin Civilisation that Church herself bulit for past 2000 years
>Jesus spoke Arameic, Hebrew, Greek and it's possible that he spoke Latin since he could speak freely with servants of centurion (though it might been Greek). But he also spoke badger since he is God.

>>2388333

To expand on this: it wasn't a simple matter of making a "French" Bible or a "German" Bible or whatever. In those days, there were a great deal more dialects and languages in Europe, many of which were barely intelligible to each other. It would have been a mammoth task to do Bibles in each local language, by hand, and check that each one was consistent with the others.

>>2388333
But Church used press. First book ever pressed was Vulgate. It also used it in counter reformation to make "How to BTFO protestantism in five easy steps" manuals for common clegy.
Plus Church, even if Roman rite is the most popular it had other rites as well. Syriac, Coptic, Croatia even had Slavic.

>>2388340
>Medieval peasants, who would have made up about 90% of a country's population, could not speak it, but sermons were held in Latin.

Answer honestly: why would the Church insist on holding sermons in Latin and viciously attack anyone who tried to translate the bible and preach in their native language?

I think you know the answer to this question, but you don't want to admit it.

>>2387295
First off, sermons (since you mention them specifically) WERE delivered in vernacular languages. The Mass and Bible were in Latin, but when a priest preached to his faithful directly he did it in a language they could understand (if he could).

With a Latin Bible and Latin Mass you have a single authoritative standard across the entire Catholic world. With Bibles translated into vernacular languages you would have dozens of standards to take care of and ensure they are perfectly consistent (a virtual impossibility). Worse yet, any half-educated man (what sort of scholar doesn't know Latin?!) could pick up an un-authoritatively translated Bible and invent any and sorts of heresy based on misunderstood or mistranslated passages. The endlessly-fragmenting Protestantism is one demonstration of this.

Allowing vernacular Bibles means increasing the risk of heresy, threatening the souls of your flock, by orders of magnitude... to what end exactly? Jesus told the apostles to teach the nations, not to give them Bibles and have them learn by themselves.

>>2387295
Because the audience actually had a fair understanding of Latin. They were by no means fluent, and your average medieval peasant would certainly have missed some of the nuances of the language, but it was much easier to give services in Latin than it would be to translate the Bible into every native language of Christian populations across Europe and distribute copies to every church. Pre-printing press, at least.

>>2388383
>Catholics will actually still defend the corrupt and power hungry catholic church with this bullshit

I was optimistic in thinking the child rape scandals was the nail in the coffin for our empire, but shit I guess it'll take another 50-100 years.

>>2388413
How about trying to address my points instead of attempting to insult me you mental midget?

>>2388412
>Illiterate medieval peasants (90% of a country's population) could understand some Latin but some of the poetry might have gone over their heads
>It would be difficult to mass produce bibles in native languages without the printing press, so we'll arrest, torture and execute anyone who tries to make sure they don't expend the effort. Actually, lets do it even after it's invented as well, because it would be such a pain in the arse.

Seriously, you know why they did it so just admit it: if the peasants realized the bible said nothing about purgatory, indulgences, tithing, etc then that would be bad for the Church.

>>2388425

more people were murdered in Chicago over the last ten years than the Inquisition executed over 350 years

>>2388438
>Here is a completely unrelated thing which I personally think is objectively worse, therefore the thing that you think is bad is not actually bad.

This is a common tactic employed by brainwashed papists to deflect any obvious criticisms made against their corrupt empire.

>>2388438
source

>>2388451
im not even a christian, friendo

>>2388380
>sermons were held in Latin.
You what? Sermons, not even integral part of Mass before VII, in Latin? You are mistaken.
>viciously attack anyone who tried to translate the bible
Bible were translated in local languge. There are pre-reformation bibles in English, Polish, French etc. But they were not popular becouse, surprise, surprise, 99% of people in Chuch couldn't read anyway. That's why we had sermons in LOCAL languge, and works of Art likestained glass windows or statues that tells the story of Bible and Saints.
>translate the bible and preach in their native language?
You think that Slavs, Anglos, Japanese, Native Americans would convert if we preached in Latin? We evangalised in all of languages in all corners of Earth. But we Church were universal and clergy from Nagasaki and Mexico city needed to understand each other.

It was not about languge it was about rightful suspection that Heresy would emerge.

Stop spreading protestant memes and read actual book about Church history.

>>2387337
Can I get a source on that?

>>2388453

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

>Although records are incomplete, about 150,000 persons were charged with crimes by the Inquisition and about 3,000 were executed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#Annual_murder_totals_in_Chicago_by_year

Add up the numbers from 2007 to 2016 (inclusive), you get 4934.

>>2387308
Just because they're non-canonical doesn't mean they're heretical, senpai.

>>2388346
This is true. Standard German basically originates with Martin Luther. He wrote it in a language which already was a compromise of several dialects and which was very upper-class.
>>2388438
>What is the industrial revolution
The current population of Chicago would have made up a significant chunk of the world's population back then.

>>2388340
>latin is politically neutral

no

>>2388199
Never.

Theres a reason why indonesian muslims are far less extreme than arabic ones...

>>2388513

>The current population of Chicago would have made up a significant chunk of the world's population back then.

Chicago population: 2.7 million

Early modern Spain population: ~9-10 million -> ~3.5x higher

Time period looked at: 10 years vs 350 years -> 3.5x longer

It's a fair comparison.

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>>2388524
>unable to recognise a rhetorical question

>>2388539

*35x longer I meant.

A proper fair comparison would do it over a longer period for Chicago, and that would blow the Inquisition out of the water for bloodiness.

>>2388340
>>Jesus spoke Arameic, Hebrew, Greek

[citation needed]

>>2388514
>There are nations today that use Latin as national languge exept for Vatican
>>2388552
He spoke Aramaic for sure since we have many quotations from him in Aramaic (naming Simon Cephas for instance)
He spoke Hebrew for sure since he was able to read scrolls from Isaiah in Synagogue
He spoke Greek for sure since he was able to speak with Roman oficials like Pilat plus it was lingua Franca since times of Alexander even after Maccabeans.

>>2388838
Not him, and I don't disagree with your analysis (and I think that any historical Jesus probably spoke at least a smidgen of Latin as well), but using the Gospels to prove any particular linguistic skill on the part of Jesus is troublesome; since it's pretty evident that the Gospel authors only have a vague knowledge of Aramaic and Hebrew.

>>2388313

The important thing is the one that was being spoken and written when it fell to the Church to take up education and infrastructure. To keep the mantle of "we wuz the true Romans not those weird dudes from the east" they had to maintain certain appearances and traditions. Also yeah no good for them if peasants can read parts of the Bible so it all dovetails nicely.

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>>2388313

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>>2388863
They were Jews from Palestine, they knew Aramiac for sure. It is widely accepted that Mathew for exemple wrote his Gospel in Hebrew in the first place, and then translated it. We even have some historical records, I don't rember if it was Orgien or Jeromo or maybe someonon else, that it existed.
Plus please, don't buy into "Gospel cannot be used as source" meme for if you apply such logic to rest of history you wouldn't have any history at all before 1600s.

>>2388217
yes, but why make that a RELIGIOUS nature, rather than just the language of your audience?
What's holy about it?

>>2388199
Well not majority, but for our Anglophone purposes it would be the Catholics on this site.

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>>2388960
>Plus please, don't buy into "Gospel cannot be used as source" meme for if you apply such logic to rest of history you wouldn't have any history at all before 1600s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)
>implying

>>2389117
>The New Chronology is a pseudoshistorical theory
>Trusting Russian """scholars"""

>>2388960
>Mathew for exemple wrote his Gospel in Hebrew in the first place

Gospels were not written by John, Matthew etc, Gospels were written by others who wrote them according to what they said. Hence in greek the meaning is not gospel written by john, but gospel ACCORDING TO John
>john talks
>this talk passes down
>in due time it is written down and titled, gospel of John
Τὸ """kατὰ""" Ἰωάννην εὐαγγέλιον

>>2390622
>>2388960
in order words, john did not wrote jack shit, let alone anything in hebrew. If you claim otherwise you have no fucking evidence to prove it.

>>2390626
>>2390622
The hebrew Gospel was very popular theory in 19th century though, nowadays it is been discarded by biblical scholars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Gospel_hypothesis#20th_century