Are Christians polytheists? Please could you explain how the

>>2364109

Three distinct people with their own desires, knowledge and persons, but they're "really" all the same guy. How? It's a "mystery" :^)

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>>2364112

Fuck off.

It is a Holy Mystery.

If it was comprehensible to humans it wouldn't be true,

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The primary purpose of the Bible is to give people the laws of God. When examining all the commandments of Moses together the primary purpose is to be kind to each other and don't forget God. There are some matters of health in there as well because things like sanitation weren't understood very well by ancient Hebrews so God needed to explain them in ways they could understand.

By the time of Christ the Jews had corrupted the commandments of God intended to get people to remember God and be good to each other into worship of the law itself and rampant corruption of the priesthood so Christ issued a new set of laws.

Christianity was a law of tolerance and care for one another with the main point being "Love God with all your heart, might, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself" because the Jews had forgotten that.

200 years after the establishment of Christianity it was corrupted again with the council of Nicaea into a pseudo Greek/hellenistic theology of worshiping some crazy bodiless, spirit, trinity thing when evidence is all over the Bible as to the true nature of God.

>>2364109
No, but Jews were.

>>2364122
>it's gibberish, therefore it's true!

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>>2364109

>>2364131
The majority of Christians were trinitarians before the Council of Nicea which is why that position won. It wasn't ever a minority position, Arias spread heresy and got BTFO for it.

>>2364122
>>2364146
>three persons, one essence meme
There are 7 billion human persons on the planet, yet there's only one essence. Should we conclude that there is only one human?

Jehovah and His son Jesus Christ are not equal. Jesus Christ was sent to this world by His father and does what His father tells Him to do. He said it Himself that His father is greater than He (John 14: 28), but then in terms of deeds they work as one people (John 14:11). This clearly proves that, the two are never equal.

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>>2364142
>>2364112
Hello, Reddit!
>>2364132
[citation needed]
>inb4 these obscure occurrences equate to a pantheon.
>>2364109
Three spirits of a single essence.
>>2364112
find an analogy for reality in order to explain reality and when you cant and say "we are bound to our subjective experience even if we knew everything we wouldn't know what we didn't know (yes that is possible because the extent of the term everything does not denote a complete totality but a categorical totality) because we can not know what is beyond being attributes being known. Therefore it is a mystery." I will laugh at your low IQ and futile struggle to break the chains which you love in favor of a wholesome slavery rather than a broken freedom.
You're a cuck and belong in the loony bin.

Give me your best irony

>>2364146
This. The right arm is a part of the body and the left arm is a part of the body but the right arm is not the left arm.

>>2364109
Are you a body, soul and spirit?

Are you one person? Which one of those is you? The body? The soul? The spirit?

If you cannot understand things of our own dimension, of our own understanding, of our own makeup, how are you going to understand something that has more dimensions than you do?

Achmed?

Any response?

>>2364162
That example is incomplete though because it implies each of them is just 'part' of God the whole when all three of them are fully God.

Moreover according to catholic theology God is a simple substance. There can be no differentiation inside a simple substance, otherwise it wouldn't be simple, but composite. And if there can be no differentiation there can be no differentiation between persons either. Hence the trinity is an absurdity even given their own premises.

>>2364159
OT Jews were blatantly henotheistic.

>>2364168
Yet the soul the the body and the spirit are not to
Here different persons with three different wills.

>>2364153
>yet there's only one essence.

I saw you palm that card.

God has a structure, three of His parts interact with mankind.

>>2364180
>three different wills.
Incorrect, they all share the same will.

>>2364175
No citation in sight, hmm. Every time I come on this board I find an interesting thread, and in every thread I find someone peddling some disinfo or making erroneous claims with no sources. I know /his/ likes to pretend its the opposite of /pol/ but it's actually severely retarded /pol/ without dates.

/pol/ will lower your IQ but /his/ will fry your brain.

>>2364190
Yes you dummy. Yet the trinity all three different persons have a unique will ("your will be done, not mine"), therefore you're example is retarded.

>>2364190

This can't possibly be true, otherwise why would Jesus cry out to God while on the cross?

>>2364198
Where the fuck did I say anything negative about Jews?

>>2364198
>thou shalt have no gods before me

Implying that other gods exist, just you're not allowed to worship them.

Another argument against the trinity. In order for Jesus to be fully divine and fully human, his human essence cannot be accidental, but fully merged with his divine essence (according to the creeds). But all three persons of the trinity share one and the same essence. If Jesus' human essence is fully merged with his divine essence, then so will the Father and Holy Spirit have human essences, and be fully human like Jesus. One funny thing about human essence is that humans are not just spirit, but bodies of flesh and bones. Therefore the Father and the Spirit have bodies of flesh and bone.

>>2364152
still derailed into literal greek polytheism. I can't fathom why so many people view doctrines as spontaneous. They're the products of earlier influences and cultural backgrounds where many possibilities are in conflict for the dominant definition of values and conceptions. Greek church was also facing other prototype conceptions of divinity. The only reason it succeeded into being dominant and spreading was Rome's support

>>2364225
According to Nicean Christianity that is.

>>2364204
>>2364218
Jesus has both a human will and a divine will. It was his human will that was begging God. It's part of his dual nature as both fully God and fully man. His divine will is in perfect unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit, as are the Father and the Holy Spirit with Him.

It wouldn't hurt to do some research since you don't even understand the basics of the Trinity

>>2364233
Nowhere in the bible that talks about the three entities - Father, Son and the Holy Spirit as one God.

Nowhere

>>2364227
Except the Gospel of John clearly says Jesus is God in it multiple times. Jesus divine nature is in Holy Scripture, it wasn't just made up out of thin air. The council was merely formed to reconcile how scripture can clearly say that Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit are all divine when there is one God. Bam, doctrine of the Trinity. It's all in the Bible, all the council did was make sense of it

>>2364238
>Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Matthew 28:19

>>2364233
>>2364174
>>2364153
>>2364225

>>2364109
It is sorta like Hydra except more idiotic.

>>2364233

So you agree that Jesus isn't identical to God, but claim that Jesus is identical to god?

>I impregnate my mother to give birth to myself so I can condemn myself to death for the atonement of humanity's sin
>this is not hindu tier heresy

>>2364265
That doesn't mention them as one God.

>>2364297
Of course. Fully man, fully God. At least on Earth. This makes sense because while Jesus was on Earth he was in a mans body. God doesn't have a body, He is a spirit. It is Jesus spirit that is the same as God

>>2364225
>One funny thing about human essence is that humans are not just spirit, but bodies of flesh and bones.
Wrong.

>>2364315
The Bible explicitly says all 3 are divine. How do you reconcile that with 'One God' without going into some demi-god nonsense? Again, the Trinity was a doctrine to reconcile what the Bible says. It doesn't contradict the Bible in any way. The Bible says Jesus is God. The Bible says the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible says the Father is God. If you don't believe in the Trinity then it's your job to explain how all three can simultaneously be One God because that's exactly what the Trinity does

In order for Christianity to become a credible religion again,vows things must go. The OT and the doctrine of the Trinity.

OT because it ties us to the Jews. And the doctrine of the trinity because it is simply silly.

Jesus must be recognized as a teacher that saw past the letter of the law and had a different more spiritual insight into the nature of divinity. Greek, Egyptian and possibly even Persian and Indian influences must not be discarded.

Moreover Jesus was a social reformer that fought against the Jews of his time.

Finally the NT should be treated as a product of Greco-Roman Hellenism rather than Judaism.

>>2364319
>This makes sense

HAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, no. God is OMNISCIENT, remember? It's not possible for god not to know something, yet when he was Jesus there were all kinds of things he didn't know. Ergo, jesus =/= god.

>>2364322
Human beings are not by nature disembodied spirits. This is Platonism not Christianity. No. Humans are material substances composed of form and matter, that is spirit, soul and body.

>>2364180
You missed my point entirely.

You do not know how YOU are, and YOU have a great deal of contact with YOU.

How can you ever hope to understand how God is?

Jesus says he was the burning bush who talked to Moses.

>>2364322
>On the contrary, Augustine (De Civ. Dei xix, 3) commends Varro as holding "that man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body."

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1075.htm#article4

Oh how I love BTFOing retards.

>>2364334
You are the person who decides what God can and cannot do?

Who are you?

>>2364346
I do know that
>>2364153
>>2364174
>>2364225
>>2364366

>>2364364
Evidence that "the Angel of The LORD" in the OT is always Jesus, angel in the sense of "messenger" and not an angelic being.

>>2364366
Indeed. If the body is irrelevant to human nature then why bodily resurrection? Why be clothed in new immortal bodies? Why not just live for eternity as a spirit?

>>2364374
No, you don't. You can't even give me a reasonable distinction between your spirit and your soul.

If those are your posts, they're nothing to brag about.

>>2364381
If you look closely, the evil disembodies spirits are "looking for a warm house" in which to live; that's how people are possessed.

Bodies are apparently more comfy than disembodied spirits.

>>2364109
No, that's muslim slander. Goes well with your depiction of an oppressed second class citizen who cannot make any life decisions for herself.

John 1:1 says that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God.
In John 10:30 Jesus said that He and the Father are one.
In John 14:9 He said that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father.
In Colossians 1:15 Paul wrote that Jesus is the (visible) image of the invisible God.
In Hebrews 1:3 Jesus is called the exact representation of God’s glory
In Hebrews 1:8 God Himself called Jesus God.
God’s Spirit is presumed to be one and the same with God just as your spirit is presumed to be one and the same with you. So if God and Jesus are one and the same, and God and His Spirit are one and the Same, then the three are one.

There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 45:5-6). Yet there are three persons presented as deity in Scripture: the Father (John 6:27; Colossians 1:3), the Son (John 1:1-3, 14; 8:24; 20:28-29; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12) and the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17; Acts 5:3-4; 2 Samuel 23:2-3; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Lastly, these three are presented as distinct persons (John 8:16-18; Luke 11:1; 3:21-22; Galatians 4:6). Thus from Scripture we learn that although there is one God, there are three distinct persons who are deity. So the Trinity is the biblical position to hold to once one examines what Scripture teaches.

>>2364383
>I can't refute any of your arguments.
Y-you are dummy!

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Numbers 11:25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied--but did not do so again.

Luke 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."


Quran Verse (2:87) And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed.

>>2364420
>Luke 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Why would God have to tell God that he was proud of God?

>>2364424
Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Acts 23:8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)

>>2364396
There exist no arguments in those posts.

Jesus was a man who fought against the Jews of his day, which is praiseworthy enough, but divinization is a little bit too much, don't you think, my Christian friends? And a little bit too, Hellenic?

>>2364424
Gee, it's almost as though One God manifested himself as three persons.

Father is God.
Son is God.
Spirit is God.
There is only one God.

Gee, so tough to understand. So complicated.

>>2364438
Anyone who denies the divinity of Jesus is by definition not a Christian.

>>2364435
Sure thing kiddo!

>>2364366
Your intellectual dishonesty may impress the rubes but it's not all that interesting.
St. Augustine's opinions on the nature of man are just that opinions, and have no bearing on anything.

A human corpse is still the corpse of a human even if the hypothetical soul has fled.
A hypothetical human soul is still the soul of a human even if the body has rotted away.
These premises are indisputable, therefore your argument based on a premise that contradicts them, is void. Even and especially if you dig up some moldy old quote from a dead man who you clearly hold in no great esteem, and whose words you're undoubtedly taking out of context in order to engage in antireligious bigotry on 4chan.

>>2364381
Why resurrect the entire body and not just the head? Clearly you put no great priority on completeness, so a reanimated head should be entirely adequate in your eyes with regards to resurrection.

>>2364438
Jesus says he was the burning bush talking to Moses. A bit hard to reconcile that with him being 'just a man' isn't it my heathen friend?

>>2364454
>quote Augustine and Aquinas
>your arguments
You trying to argue with syllogistic arguments is like a dog trying to walk on his two hind legs. He hopelessly can't, but it's sure fun to watch.

Please post more!

>>2364446
Oh, it's you. Here, I'll give you some (you)s so your life will be complete.

>There are 7 billion human persons on the planet, yet there's only one essence. Should we conclude that there is only one human?
That one essence is of God, not of humans. There is nobody arguing that humanity is of one essence.

See? No argument.

>>2364446
>Moreover according to catholic theology God is a simple substance.

Who cares about catholic theology? Certainly not anyone who is not catholic, and the idea that Catholics speak for Christians is ludicrous. Again, no argument. Just a logical fallacy, appeal to authority. And in this case, an authority that does not even exist.

>>2364479
>appeals to authorities he doesn't even recognize and expects to be taken seriously
Hilarious, and certainly not an argument.

>>2364446
>If Jesus' human essence is fully merged with his divine essence, then so will the Father and Holy Spirit have human essences

Again, no argument. Just a fallacy of composition.

>>2364480
Except there's no talking about 7 billion humans if all don't have the same human essence, oh
The raise it's 7 billion unrelated unique individual substances.

Oh, but go on, your impersonation of a retarded person is killing me! I mean you're just pretending to retarded right?

>>2364446
>>On the contrary, Augustine (De Civ. Dei xix, 3) commends Varro as holding "that man is not a mere soul, nor a mere body; but both soul and body."

Another logical fallacy, again an appeal to authority, and in this case an authority that cannot discern spirit from soul.

Just like you!

So see, zero arguments. Did you think reality would comport with your biases?

Skippy?

>>2364498
Otherwise*

>>2364498
Correct. There is no "human essence" that combines all humans into one being.

Is that not obvious? Even to someone like you?

>>2364508
So, so autistic.

>>2364369

God can't do something that is impossible, such as "be three distinct people but also only one person".

>>2364510
>essence means everyone partaking in it are one being
Oh boy, I'm beginning to think you're serious!

>>2364498
Phone posters are cancer.

Sent from my iPad

Jesus is the 'logos', the Word of God. Whenever God speaks to humanity, Jesus is the messenger. Whenever you see 'God' speaking in the New Testament it's actually Jesus giving the message.

>>2364525
Whoops, meant Old Testament, obviously

>>2364492
>he doesn't know that the Christian creeds state that Jesus humans and divine nature are United
>he doesn't know the difference between essence and accident
No m'lady I won't fall for the fallacy of composition!

>>2364430
>Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Proving that Jesus and God are NOT the same person.

>>2364439
>three different beings
>HURR ONLY JOKING THEY ARE THE SAME :^)

Christian "intellectualism" at its finest!

>>2364517
>God can't do something that is impossible
Depends. It's a little bit silly to say that God can't do anything that conflicts with the laws of the universe we live in. He made those laws, of course he can break them. Our trouble wrapping our heads around the concept of a single God contained within three separate beings doesn't mean it's impossible. Your problems with it come from the fact you're a simple being living in a simple universe whereas God is the infinite and unknowable creator.

Why don't we shift the topic a little bit. Ok some people have issues with the doctrine of the Trinity, fine. The Bible contains two irrefutable facts.

1. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all seperate divine Entities

2. There is One God

Ok. Now how do you decide to reconcile those facts without the Trinity. Lets see some alternatives that aren't just fucktarded Muslim propaganda

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>I can cite all the fallacies that are named on the Wikipedia article. Pic related is me.

Learn basic philosophy and metaphysics kiddo! And then basic Christian theology.

>>2364109
It is like the original star wars trilogy, they are all just parts of the same thing.

>>2364552
>Depends

No, it doesn't. Even godcucks don't claim he can do the impossible, only that he can do anything that IS possible.

>>2364569
That's modalism.

>>2364517
kek

"God cannot be God because my autism says so".

Good luck with that.

>>2364522
Yes, God is one being. In three persons. Trinity. As explained to you ad nauseum.

>>2364560
God and jesus are separate entities, but share the holy spirit, which is what God will also share with you if you ask

>>2364574
What do you define as 'impossible' though? Many people consider creating something from nothing 'impossible' but that is clearly an ability God has. Are you talking 'impossible' from how we understand the universe to work because from our perspective God can do lots of things we consider impossible including altering the fundamental laws of the universe at will.

>>2364541
What did you do today, little Timmy?

>I trolled Christians on teh interwebz ma!

Good boy! I'm sure you sure showed them!

>>2364594
So there are two Gods? The Father and Jesus?

>>2364588

So you claim god CAN do impossible things, like make square circles or make mountains heavier than he can lift?

>>2364595
>What do you define as 'impossible' though

Physically or logically impossible.

>Many people consider creating something from nothing 'impossible'

Most people are morons.

> Are you talking 'impossible' from how we understand the universe to work because from our perspective God can do lots of things we consider impossible including altering the fundamental laws of the universe at will.

That isn't impossible, just beyond our abilities.

>>2364615
>So you claim god CAN do impossible things, like make square circles
The way Geometry works is a function of the shape of the universe so yes

>>2364629

Then you are out of step with every theologian I've ever read. Good job, enjoy burning in hell forever for your heresy.

Reminder that the ancient Greeks weren't really polytheistic. The gods of the Greek pantheon were different persons, but there is only one divine essence! Therefore the ancient Greeks were monotheists! Am I doing it right?

>>2364649

I know you're just fooling, but in fact monotheism was the norm across the "pagan" world before Christianity.

>>2364560
The Son and the Spirit are created Elohim.

Proverbs 8:22
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works

>>2364750
Why of courshe. Even today among the Hindus they believe in many gods and one divine essence? I mean why stop at three?

>>2364758

What does Proverbs have to do with anything? Are you seriously claiming this is a reference to Jesus?

>>2364777
Yes son, this is pretty much accepted by everyone.
>w-well I DON'T ACCEPT IT
Too bad kiddo.

>>2364784

HAHAHA you poor stupid bastard.

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>>2364822
>I have my own special opinion!
Remember when your mom told you you were special and intelligent?

She lied.

She also lied to your dad when she said she didn't drink during pregnancy.

Spoiler: I got her drunk intbe back of my truck.

>>2364828

HAHAHA you truly are a clown!

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>>2364836
Not that anon but Jesus said to the Father:

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

So, Jesus is not God. Because the Father IS THE ONLY true God.

THE
"""""""""ONLY"""""""""
TRUE
GOD

>>2365074
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Taking shit out of context. that's all you got.

>>2365092
>O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Gee, I wonder why atheist faggot left this part off.

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>>2365092
>GLORY THAT I HAD

John 17:5
...glorify me in your presence with THE GOLRY that I had with you before the world began.

If you look at the verse closely, it said
that THE GLORY is with God before the creation of the Earth, NOT JESUS.

Why? Because every preexistence issue regarding all of us preexisted in God's knowledge. The God loved Jesus before creating him and therefore this is the glory that Jesus had with God...

>PROOF
John 17:24
Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

>>2364109
God is "One" in that it consists of every quality in a perfect state, with each of the trinity being different "aspects" of him. The Son possesses certain qualities in perfection which are also possesed in perfect oneness by God, as does the Father, as does the Holy Spirit. Each of the trinity are an intrinsic part of the oneness of god. I wish I could explain it better, but you';d have to find a qualified theologian to give you a full account.

Christians believe there is one god. Even if the trinity did imply polytheism, the Christians still only worship one god who created everything. They cannot believe in something accidentally.

>>2365106
Gee, I wonder if Christians really read the Bible.

Glory has been given to people OTHER than Jesus.

Psalm 3:3
But you are a shield around me, O LORD; you bestow glory on me and lift [ Or LORD , / my Glorious One, who lifts ] up my head.

Psalm 8:5
You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings [ Or than God ] and crowned him with glory and honor.

However, we see that Jesus gave this glory that was given to him from God to the disciples...

John 17:22
I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:

>>2365119
If Jesus came down from heaven in all of his glory, he would have killed everyone who saw him.

Start thinking for yourself for once.

>>2365137
Of course. And all of the stars are of differing glories.

Do you have a point?

Or do you think something has more glory than the Father, who dwells in unapproachable light?

>>2365133
It's just a shitty muslim attack to lump Christians in with pagans. They don't even know what they're talking about. They have absolutely no idea that allah is Ba'al, and that the kaaba houses Hubal still, aka the Ba'al of the Moabites.

>>2364109
The trinity is LITERALLY (literally) a meme because the early chruch fathers wanted to figure out some way to tack on Jesus the Cool Kid onto the Jewish god.

>>2365119
It's absolutely hilarious how hard you try to twist verses to match your mudslime ideology.

>with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

The glory I had WITH you BEFORE the world was. Jesus was talking about the fact he is co-eternal with the creator. Fact.

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>>2365165
Jesus give his glory to the Disciples(>>2365137). Is the Disciples God?

>>2365162
>start thinking for yourself
I AGREE. Come on, let's do that.

Do you think that God can die?

>>2365323
Anon, it's the glory. NOT JESUS. Here:

John 17:24
Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

The above verse clearly said GLORY ITSELF.

>>2365337
>The above verse clearly said GLORY ITSELF.
Wrong it's Jesus. It's ok to be wrong anon, you just got brainwashed by Muslims who speak the word of Satan

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>>2365323
>co-eternal
Really? You must be kidding.

Jesus is BEGOTTEN, according to you.

BEGOTTEN literally means TO BRING ABOUT INTO EXISTENCE.

Thus Jesus have a beginning. Thus NOT ETERNAL.

Please be polite.

>>2364758
Thanks anon. I never knew this verse exist. You're the MVP.

>>2364122
>>2364146
multiple personality disorder

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>>2365168
You know that people enter the Ka'ba every year, right? It used to be open to people.

It's an empty room, you can find the pictures online.

Did you think the Kaaba was just a closed off chest that nobody opened in 1400 years?

>>2365386
>Proverbs 8:22
Except you should read the entire chapter. It's a long description of itself by Hokmah, or "wisdom."

God created wisdom before anything else. This only applies to Jesus retroactively from a Christian lens, and only out of context.

>>2364109
What's wrong with polytheism? An your dictator don't like it? At least the god should be more interesting talking with peers instead of stupid bald monkeys like humanity.

>>2367152
Well, yeah. It's generally accepted by Christian theologians that this verse refers to Christ, and Christianity (specifically the Christian doctrine of the trinity) is the subject of the OP. Talk about context lol.

>>2364109
explain how holy virgins work

>>2367179
>>2364491 is a virgin, not sure if holy though. How does he work? Being completely unattractive to the opposite sex.

>>2367177
>Well, yeah. It's generally accepted by Christian theologians that this verse refers to Christ

No it isn't. It's a claim made by Jehovah's Witnesses that is rejected by mainstream Christianity.

It's not even a very good translation. The KJV for example translates Proverbs 8:22 as....

>The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

...i.e. God always had wisdom even before he created anything.

Water, ice, steam. 3 different aspects of the same thing.

Time, space, matter. One wouldn't work without the other. They all need eachother for our reality to function.

God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit are 3 aspects of the one and only God.

Islam and the RCC are crypto-paganism, tracing its roots back to Babylon.

>>2367254

This.

It's not complicated. If you pop Yahweh in a kettle for a couple of minutes you get Jesus,

>>2364109
Literally why a Muslim picture?

>>2367261
But what if I introduce red hot nickel ball into the equation?

>>2367459

Yahweh doesn't react with nickel.

>>2364109

Yes. The trinity, praying to saints, praying to Mary.

>>2367254
>Water, ice, steam
This is called the modalist heresy by Christian theologians, and it's rejected as an analogy of the trinity.

>>2365364
And the very next line is
"born of the Father before all ages."
If one was born before all ages, before time itself, one has no beginning or end, as one can't not begin if time does not exist.

You really need to stop taking shit out of context.
Lying only makes you look bad

>>2367254
>Water, ice, steam. 3 different aspects of the same thing.

Oh buy, an excuse to post this again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw

>>2368711
Inb4 that retarded baby comes back to the thread and says the Christian creeds are le argument from authority fallacy and only his special definition is real Christianity.

>>2365337
Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God, nor did he grasp onto being God but instead let go and became a mortal human being.

It seems God is more concerned with saving people than he is with his own reputation.

>>2365337
>Do you think that God can die?

I know for sure that God became a mortal human being so that he could pay the ultimate price for all of our sins, yes. Death. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins.

Note your demon god forgives at a whim, and nobody ever has to pay the price of his forgiveness.

In the real world, forgiveness comes at a price. A price God put himself into position to pay.

For you. Because you needed him to. He paid a debt he did not owe because you owe a debt you cannot pay.

Your question is odd. Are you the person who decides what God can and cannot do?

Does God check in with you, to see what you allow him to do?

Or does he have his own will, and can he not do all things?

>>2365337
>The above verse clearly said GLORY ITSELF.

That prayer was answered; Jesus was elevated above all things, and all authority was given to him over heaven and earth.

In his glory, when he beheld his best friend, John, the author of the Revelation, John fell on his face as though dead. Probably dead.

Because Jesus now is not as Jesus was when he was back on earth; he has been glorified above all but the Father, and put above all things but for the Father.

Stop thinking of the Trinity as three gods.

Think of him as a THREEFOLD God.

>>2365364

Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh. He existed before he was conceived in Mary's womb. He created the universe. He is eternal.

And he is God's only begotten Son, created as a zyogote, nursed through infancy to adulthood, following the Father in all things, saying what the Father gave him to say, and doing all things the Father told him to do. He was faithful in all, even unto death, even unto death on the cross. A shameful way to die.

Jesus has no beginning; he is eternal.

Jesus' human manifestation had a beginning, so that you might live.

>>2365386
It's garbage. First born of all creation means he's the ultimate heir of all creation. It's a position, not his nature.

Jesus is not a created being. He is the Creator.

>>2367144
The little black rock is all that's left of Hubal's statue.

The arabs had 360 idols in the kaaba; they removed 359. Hubal stayed. Hubal is allah. Hubal is Ba'al.

The God of the Jews was never the god of the arabs.

>>2367454
Muslims condemn Christians as pagan polytheists. They refuse to apprehend the Trinity as one God manifesting himself as three persons so that we might get to know him a little bit, and choose to love him back, or reject him.

Muslims have rejected him.

>>2367491
Doesn't matter. You can call it at the triple point, if you wish. It's still an incomplete picture.

Anyone who thinks they can fully understand God has a god too small to worship.

>>2369432
Triple point doesn't mean water being a gas liquid and a solid at the same time it merely refers to a temperature point where by changing pressure you can change it to any one its states

>>2369501
Still two H's and one O.

Again, if God were small enough to be completely understood, would he be big enough to worship?

>>2369509
Yeah but it's not steam , liquid water and ice at the same time hence modalism - a Christian heresy

>>2369432
You say this while simultaneously presuming to lecture everyone on exactly the characteristics of god on the assumption that everyone is wrong and you are right.

I bet you would complain if I labeled you a mystic.

>>2369509
As to your other part being understood doesn't preclude worship. Just don't bag other religions contradictions when there is a centerak one in yours

>Your religions contradictions are my religions divine mysteries

>>2365343
REEEEEEEEEEEE KEEP /HIS/ COMFY REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

>>2369534

Note it's not what Christians say.

Father is God.
Son is God.
Spirit is God.
There is only one God.

That's what Christians say.

When non-Christian minds sprain trying to understand the obvious, we give them other ideas in nature to reify the trinity.

>>2369538
I can tell you his characteristics without even understanding them myself. That's the nature of divine revelation.

He is just, holy and righteous. Do you understand any of those attributes of God as I have told them to you?

Do I?

No, I'm a simple man. I have a simple belief system. I believe everything God says is true, and everything God does is holy, just and righteous. I also believe he acts out of his mercy and grace.

I can tell you he is a triune eternal supernatural spirit being who lives in unapproachable light, but how will you receive that with your zero quotient of spiritual discernment?

>>2369547
Zero, actually. I just agree with God, and God has zero contradictions, as does the Word of God.

Zero.

>>2364153
>yet there's only one essence
That's not true

>>2364153
>There are 7 billion human persons on the planet, yet there's only one essence. Should we conclude that there is only one human?

No, we will just properly conclude that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

>>2365119
>Because every preexistence issue regarding all of us preexisted in God's knowledge
Jesus says He had glory before the world was
Thoughts do not have glory

>>2365119
>hat THE GLORY is with God before the creation of the Earth, NOT JESUS.

Jesus is God.

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>>2364122
this is probably literally heresy
imprison this anon

>>2369783
The bible.

Heresy.

kek

Upon second thought, you may be right. By using the Catholic definition of "heresy" as "against the Roman Catholic Church", the bible is indeed heresy as the bible is indeed against the Whore of Babylon, Mystery Babylon, and the False Prophet thereof.

>58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

>59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

This is Jesus explicitly saying he was the one who spoke to Moses. He says "I AM" in direct reference to the verse in Exodus

>God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

He said. I AM. Meaning he was claiming to be God. That's the reason they began to stone him. Whenever God was talking in the OT that was actually Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God. The Father has never been seen, nor spoken to man, ever. Every time God has interacted with the world it has been through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

>>2369760
Unless you think God is a trait it's as logical as a square circle

>>2369936
Person =/= being

>>2369768
See>>2369604

>>2369938
The importance is distinction which is there - even if you stretch being into meaning relation

>>2369944
There is distinction because the Father is not the Son and not the Spirit
God is a multi-personal being. This is offensive to reason because God did not choose to create any multi-personal beings, so we have no frame of reference. If you want to decide you're wise enough to edit God and create a creaturely god in your mind, for you to make idols of and sacrifice goats to, feel free to do so, but I will stick with the True and Living God of the bible.

SHIT YOU GOT SPAMMED!!!!! - allow me to simplify:

God is Everything (literally), the body, Absolutely EVERYTHING fathomable (sin is absence of something**)

The Son is: The identity of Everything when evaluating It through Ethics and for it's Attributes, the Face, Literally WISDOM itself. The attributes that dictate Wisdom when taken from a HOLISTIC perspective.
(ex. Not disregarding perversion of children, and enablement of womanizers culturally, or catering to capitalist whoremongering through homosexuality and sexual liberty.)

The Spirit: is the 'Active' subject being considered, the hand, the congregation. THE working agents.


Father - Everything
Son - Wisdom of everything
Spirit - activity in accordance with wisdom.

The Holy Trinity.

thanks

>>2369991
Heresy

>>2369810
>I am a slow walker, but I never walk back. Abraham Lincoln

You can clearly see here that Abe Lincoln is referring to himself as God because he said "I am".

>>2369997
>Before Abraham was, I am
>I am [x]
>THEY'RE EXACTLY THE SAME XD

>>2369966
>This is offensive to reason because God did not choose to create any multi-personal beings,

Proof?

>>2370002
Can you point me to a multi-personal being in nature?

>>2369966
And distinction unless you define God as a trait leads to polytheism.

As for the rest of your post it's a contradiction in the same way the square circle is. you aren't agnostic about there being square circles somewhere in the future or time - because it's a relationship of immutable concepts.

If you want to choose contradiction there is nothing wrong with that as long as you don't try and push your double thing of rejecting contradictions leads to the truth expect in this one instance "

>>2370011
>And distinction unless you define God as a trait leads to polytheism
Refuted in the post you're responding to
>As for the rest of your post it's a contradiction
Person =/= being

>If you want to choose contradiction there is nothing wrong with that as long as you don't try and push your double thing of rejecting contradictions leads to the truth expect in this one instance
If you want to decide you're wise enough to edit God and create a creaturely god in your mind, for you to make idols of and sacrifice goats to, feel free to do so, but I will stick with the True and Living God of the bible.

>>2370011
>"No God, i'm smarter than you, I will decide what you are, I'm in control here!"

Stuck on the homouisan problem again, eh?

>>2370021
How does being not Meaning person refute it and the issue of distinction ?
Can you also explain your definitions ?

For your other point how am I editing god or creating a new one ? All I am doing is questioning the reasoning behind your specific understanding of him. Nothing else

>>2364109
Are Muslims moon worshipers? Isn't Allah the god of the moon and thus the crescent and star and the Kabba a moon stone?

>>2370036
What problem?
The Father and the Son are the same being. I don't see the problem here

>>2370005
You were the one who made the claim, you back it up. I don't pretend to know the limits of God's creation, since you claim to do so, it is up to you to concretely point them out for the rest of us.

>>2369997
>Context doesn't matter
You're so desperate aren't you. Jesus constantly referenced Old Testament scriptures to prove his authority and that he was indeed from God. When he says "I AM" that isn't just old timey grammar, that's him purposefully referencing the burning bush and Moses and announcing himself as God.

>>2370038
>How does being not Meaning person refute it and the issue of distinction ?
Because there can be three persons and only one being
>Can you also explain your definitions ?
Being is the thing, person is the who
>For your other point how am I editing god or creating a new one ?
Because you are placing human reason above divine revelation.

>>2370044
I made a negative claim, the burden of proof is on you.
I don't understand this objection, since a multi-personal creature would only strengthen the Trinity.

>>2370028
I'm not taking to God though only an anon who claims his understanding has no contradiction

>>2370040

No. The moon god had a different name. The symbolism, however, IS from that. Hence why a lot of Muslims have those moon flags. Same way the hajj and other things from pagan times stayed. But the whole "muslims worship the moon!" thing is retarded.

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>Christians unironically believe in a nonsensical trinity when even their books deny it

>>2370063
The Trinity is biblical

>>2370063

Cathcucks aren't Christian.

>>2370040
That is a bullshit conspiracy theory popularized by Chick Tracts

>>2364109
More or less it is one god with three 'minor' archetypes. There is the Father (Creator), Son (Protector/Savior), and the Spirit (Assistant/Messenger)

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>>2370067

>>2370049
How is that not reducing God into an essence/trait or Jesus ect into components or parts

Im not placing human reason above devine revelation only contrasting my reasoning with yours. If you said that it's a divine mystery that exists as a permanent contradiction to human logic I would ageee with you 100%. It's your logic I'm having the issue with

>>2370075
There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 45:5-6). Yet there are three persons presented as deity in Scripture: the Father (John 6:27; Colossians 1:3), the Son (John 1:1-3, 14; 8:24; 20:28-29; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:10-12) and the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17; Acts 5:3-4; 2 Samuel 23:2-3; 2 Corinthians 3:18). Lastly, these three are presented as distinct persons (John 8:16-18; Luke 11:1; 3:21-22; Galatians 4:6). Thus from Scripture we learn that although there is one God, there are three distinct persons who are deity. So the Trinity is the biblical position to hold to once one examines what Scripture teaches.
>>2370070
Neither are non-Trinitarians

>>2370063
How does the Bible deny it? You do realize that the doctrine of the Trinity was to explain what the Bible says right? It's not like someone said "Hey wouldn't be cool if God was 3 in 1?" and then tried to twist things to make it that way. The Bible says the Father is God, the Bible says Jesus is God, the Bible says the Holy Spirit is God and then says there is only One God. People back then said "Wait a minute, how can that be?" and so the trinity was the explanation.

But I'll humor you. Reconcile these two facts without the Trinity, taken straight from the Bible.

1. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

2. There is One God

I assume you'll have a really good answer that doesn't contradict scripture in any way

>>2370078
It is a contradiction to human logic, but not a permanent one because it only contradicts human logic due to a lack of a frame of reference. Christians in heaven no longer have the problem of mystery Christians on earth have.

>>2370086
You're forgetting the doctrine's third pillar
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit and the Spirit is not the Father.

>>2370082
Luke 18:19 "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."

>>2370097
The rich young ruler did not know he was talking to God

>>2370091
Which is fine - my only point is against those who hold it to be in allognment or and (this is not you but others ) those who use the contradiction as proof

>>2370103
You have to be socially retarded to interpret it that way.

>>2370190
Or you could just be reading the context

>>2370500
The context also defies that interpretation.