The Muslim ban on iconography means they can never produce true

I don't know, that mosque looks pretty fucking beautiful to me

>>2363704
Statuary is literally a dead art form outside of state-sponsored civic monuments and representational art is both 1)not any more inherently valuable than symbolic, geometrical or abstract art and 2) idolatry.

can muslims produce good memes?

>>2363720
Ahmadinejad and MemeriTV screencaps have been pretty dank

>>2363719

>outside of state-sponsored civic monuments

it was always like that lol

>>2363740
Pretty much. Statues go hand-in-hand with civic cult, which is why they were so widespread in Greece and Rome and any nation that aspired to be like them.

Their calligraphy and mosque decorating is pretty, calming, and promotes contemplation of the divine I guess. But for Europeans it's also sterile, autistic and alien.

Biology is the root, culture is the flower. They have their thing and it doesn't speak to us.

It's not art.

All Muslims should be exterminated.

>>2363765
Something that's pretty, calming, and promotes divine contemplation is sterile, autistic, and alien to Europe? If anything it's the most similar to European tastes, and it's Hindu and Sinic austerity that's the most alien considering how Islamic architecture is heavily influenced by Byzantine architecture.

>>2363704
>Without statuary and representational art, they can produce pretty things but can never touch the beautiful and sublime.
>posts a picture of a mosque that is both beautiful and sublime
what did he mean by this?

>>2363757
the greeks actually weren't that big on free standing statues, they much preferred reliefs

>>2363765
>Stained glass windows and vaulted arches
>Alien for Europeans

There's a reason why so many mosques easily became churches and vice versa with just a few touch ups and renovations.

>>2363757
The only reason you see them so much is because all the woodblock art has desintegrated

>>2363801
>>2363818

those are cheaper options. Just because the majority of people don't drive a rolls royce doesn't mean they don't want one.

>>2363765
> geometry and simmetry are bad

>>2363833
Geometry and symmatry are all muzzie art has. It is literally just elaborate versions of the doodles you used to make in the margins of your notebook when you were bored in school.

>>2363937
I guess that means I have a stronger cultural connection to nameless Muslim tile setters than Michelangelo then huh.

>>2363704
I think both churches and mosques can be pretty beautiful. It's those fucking Chink and Jap temples that look like something between a public bathroom and a warehouse.

>>2363958
Are you just pretending to be retarded?

>>2363704
What about Persian miniatures?

>>2363704
That's beautiful but its of course Iranian. Almost every good thing about Islam came from pre-existing Persian culture and later Persian-Muslim contributions. Very little is originates from ethnic Arabs except perhaps the Arabic language which ill concede is great.

>Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of non-Arab (Persian) descent... They invented rules of (Arabic) grammar...[60] great jurists were Persians... only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, "If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it"... The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them... as was the case with all crafts...

>Arabs dominate only of the plains, because they are, by their savage nature, people of pillage and corruption.


>... they will keep despoiling and raiding and conquering with ease until their people are defeated, then imitate them with mutual conflict and political decline, until their civilization is destroyed. And Allah is capable of their creation, and He is the One, the Victorious, and there is no other lord than Him.

>It is noteworthy how civilization always collapsed in places the Arabs took over and conquered, and how such settlements were depopulated and the (very) earth there turned into something that was no (longer) earth. The Yemen where (the Arabs) live is in ruins, except for a few cities. Persian civilization in the Arab 'Iraq is likewise completely ruined. The same applies to contemporary Syria.

>Furthermore, as we have stated before,147 it is the nature of (the Arabs) not only to appropriate the possessions of other people but, beyond that, to refrain from exercising any (power of) arbitration among them and to fail to keep them from (fighting) each other.

>>2364094
I think it is safe to think of it as the work of Islam, not just as the work of persians.

Muhammed galvanised the Arab people into spreading their new religion not just through the Middle East, but through much of Asia, Africa and Europe.

In doing so they didn't just pick up manuscripts from Egypt, ideas from Greece, silks from China and a number system from India: they synthesised and modifed, and, given they were treating new converts as their brothers, it was not a specifically "Arab" thing.

Islamic art > Pre-Renaissance christian art.

muh 2d

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>>2363765
>to Europeans it's alien

You think?

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>>2363765
>>2364195

Are the Celts Crypto-Muslims? Should they be exterminated too?

>>2364110
I will concede that Arabic as a lingua franca and Islam as common worldview facilitated an efficient scholarly network. Nevertheless, the fact that a hugely disproportionate amount of the actual work was done by Persians shouldn't be ignored. In fact, I've heard it called the "Persian Golden Age" by specialists like richard frye.


irfan habib:

>“[T]his particular phase in Islamic history was marked predominantly by the Mu’tazilite school of philosophy, which was based on freethinking and rationalism. It was an ecumenical setting for science, where savants of nearly all creeds and origins worked towards a common purpose. And this was not something new, it was a long established pre-Islamic tradition in the Near East, where translation of scientific and philosophical texts from Greek to Syriac took place….“

My personal theory is that the Arabic language and Islamic culture initially facilitated much learning. As time went on though, cultural Arabization and behavioral patterns slowly crept in (cousin marriage, tribalism, etc...) after that initial boom. Its not Islam that screwed over the middle east; it was the arabization that came with it. Although Persians today still reject arab identity, I'm unsure as to how "arabized" they are culturally.

>>2364110
>I think it is safe to think of it as the work of Islam, not just as the work of persians.
And the quote about Persian contributions is from Ibn Khaldun, not me. Try this, look up several Islamic contributors during this age. More often than not, they will be Persian.

>The organization of the Caliphates was based on the Persian Sassanian system of bureaucracy and government.

>Most Islamic architecture is influenced by Persian architecture.

>Most Muslim intellectuals were Persian

>Islamic Garden = Persian Garden

>Islamic Carpet = Persian Carpet

Like I said, almost beautiful element of Islamic culture is ultimately Persian in origin.

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>>2363704
>The Muslim ban on iconography means they can never produce true art. They are crippled by being limited to advanced and elaborate decorating.

>All Muslims are Wahhabis.

Strict adherence to God's commands produces a different kind of art.
Plus geometry is a reflective microcosm of the greater universe.

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>>2364347
OR

Muslims are subhuman savages who have no capability to experience or even imagine true beauty, which is why they destroy everything good and beautiful everywhere they go.

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"The Tortoise Trainer", by the Turkish painter and archaeologist Osman Hamdi Bey.

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>>2364414
"Two Musician Girls", by the same artist.

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>>2364419
A man reciting the Kuran.

>>2364390
>He thinks grotesque gaudiness is beautiful.

>>2364459
Literally just elaborate decorating. Not art.

>>2363704
Fun fact: the depicted mosque is a work of the 20th century and was designed by Western architects. Stained glass isn't tradionally a feature of Islamic architecture

>>2364494
Has a systematic method behind it, yep it's art.

>>2364501
>completed in 1888
>Production of coloured glass in west Asia has existed since the 8th century.

>>2364607
>>2364605
>>2364592
>>2364585
>>2364559
>>2364536
>>2364513
>>2364509
>>2364459
Awesome

>>2364568
>>2364551
>>2364539
Catastrophe

>>2364094
>>2364110
>>2364207
>>2364241

The problem with calling it either Arab or Persian is that the actual culture of the period was Arab-Persian, an imperial fusion culture that originated simultaneously in Syria, Arab/Persian Iraqs, and Khorasan from a mixed population. When these authors speak disparagingly of Arabs, they mean specifically the Bedouin, but will go on to claim descent from an Arabian tribe half the time.

It's best not to think of it as an ethnicity in this time period. Being Arab by the 9th century onward was more like being a Latin who may have Roman, Celtic, or Germanic ancestry but reads in Latin and identifies with a broader Roman culture.

So is this an architecture thread now?

>>2363704
Christianity bans idolatry too
Be sure not to confuse Christianity and Catholicism

>>2364585
>>2364592
>>2364605
>>2364607
Catholics aren't Christian

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>>2363833
>>2363937
Both of you can't spell symmetry


Most of beauty to the human eye has to do with abstraction, contrast, and symmetry. Islamic geometric designs follow all of this. While it lacks the faces the human brain loves so damned much is imagines random objects as such, it is a beauty without real-life comparison. Only humans could create something such as those thousands of perfect diamonds in every color imaginable in one place. While making a human out of marble is an amazing and beautiful feat, it is still trying to reach (and maybe give a bit of gratuitous proportions to) an every day object.

>>2363704
they are either
-being crippled by their religion so they're being unable to produce art at their maximum

-descerneding the standard art "tools" necessary to make "true" art and they literally phased out, being able to make true art without having to imply some of our typical concepts in it

>>2364791
>>>/reddit/

Isn't this a wonderful world we live in, where there is so much variation, so much beauty to be found and to be made?

>>2363720
Palestinian television has created countless Shlomo memes.

>>2364242
I am Maliki Sunni and last I checked if I draw Muhammed I will probably be lynched to death.

>>2364390
Go to Google Images and search for Islamic Architecture or Islamic Decorations, you uncultured pig-eating son a bitch.

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>>2363720

>>2364203
The Irish? Yes

>>2364694
dont triangulate, the fact still remains that ethnic Persians did almost everything.

>>2365176
>triangulate
?

In any case, that's not strictly speaking true. Many were Arab-Persians, as in those who came from mixed families where settled Arabs intermarried with local Iranian and Mesopotamian nobility. They took Arabized names traced back to these settled tribes. This is why almost all of the notable figures of the golden age came from regions which had originally settled large Arab populations - the Jazira, Basra, Khorasan, and Andalusia, while regions like southern Iran or the Caspian region that did not see that same settlement did not produce the same caliber of individuals.

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>it's a /his/ talks about art thread

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>>2363704

Don't listen to these degenerates, many idols in Arabia.

>>2365387
Nice meme, but you do raise a valid point. Many people assume the Middle East was completely iconoclastic when in fact they simply didn't like representative art in sacred spaces. They had no trouble with depicting humans and animals in private and secular state buildings like palaces. There are even accounts of automata, such as a giant horse and rider in Baghdad that supposedly turned to face the direction of greatest threat to the city. Many of these unfortunately did not survive the repeated sackings of the age, which happened to target palaces more than austere religious buildings in the first place.

>>2365349
>Many were Arab-Persians, as in those who came from mixed families where settled Arabs intermarried with local Iranian and Mesopotamian nobility.

Rapists and war brides. Arabs are savages.

You have to go back.

>>2365416
Marriages. By the start of the 9th century Persian war captives were rare, the frontiers having moved on to Turkic and Caucasian captives instead, and in the generations leading up to the Abbasid revolution the Arab colonists in Eastern Iran had already started cutting themselves off politically from the Syrian bloc and made marriage alliances with local Zoroastrian families, which is why they managed to garner their support in the first place.

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>>2364390
Do you prefer ugly depictions like this as a "beauty" over the complexity of Islamic geometric art?

>>2365438
>by the 9th century

yeah two centuries of cultural genocide will do that

egypt lost its christian majority by the 10th century too, what a coincidence! it's almost like there was a ruling power enforcing one religion and treating its practitioners as the upper caste. Nah, religion of peace amirite????

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>>2363720
Meh tier

>>2365621
>Muh oppressive rulers.
The Roman Empire was stepping all over the Copts before the Arabs arrived and until recent times they were a landowning class minority.

>>2363704
Architectures pretty sick tho.

>>2365621
>cultural genocide
Only in the same way Rome was a cultural genocide of Gaul and Greece, or how Egypt lost its pagan majority to Christianity.

>>2364094

>Arabic language
>great

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>>2366113
Not really. Muslims were and are tent niggers. Anything good in Muslim lands comes from the people they conquered. As the cultural and genetic miscegenation progressed everything got progressively shittier. The "Golden Age" of Islam was the short time before they completely shitted up the people and cultures they conquered. Compare this process to the Greeks, Romans, and Europeans - everywhere they went they improved things.

they should tone down with their anti-ayydolatry shit, but they are brainwashed sheep already.

also, all abrahamic religions hate sexual interpretation and nudity

>>2365612
Not that guy, but if you think icons don't have a great artstyle, you can fuck off
It's the direct continuation of ancient Roman painting, it's cool as fuck

>>2363709
mosques are badly designed
I was in istanbul and visited both hagia sophia and the blue mosque

hagia sofia was literally half-filled with construction scaffolding (seriously, the entire left half was just an enormous mass of poles and planks) and looks like it hadn't had any upkeep since the 1800's, while the blue mosque was perfectly maintained

hagia sophia was still incredible, while the blue mosque was completely aimless

it's like they took the "no idolatry" instruction to it's ultimate limit and didn't even dare make a focal point for their house of prayer

>>2366108
>The Roman Empire was stepping all over the Copts before the Arabs arrived
Even that was preferable. Arabization was the worst thing that could have happened to Egypt.

>>2368093
*Islam and Arabization

>>2367405
You have to be a faggot not to think that te blue mosque was way better than the hagia sophia.
Literally its only special because it got turned into a mosque.

>>2364873
the first one

>>2368093
>Even that was preferable.

Really anon. I was a former church goer of a Coptic church and the mass amounts of "this saint died because he was Christian due to Romans" is like a massive list I can't bne bothered to right down. A LARGE AMOUNT OF THE COPTIC CHURCH's IDENTITY RELATES TO IT'S PERSECUTION UNDER THE ROMANS DURING IT'S FORMATIVE YEARS

>>2364994
I wanna see, post some pls

>>2365416
>>2365621

Oh, it's autistic Iranian diaspora again

>>2368094
Egyptian Christians welcomed the Arabs.

>>2367400
It fucking looks disgusting, you can keep liking a polished turd all you want, it's still a turd. Like your taste.

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>>2363704
I wish the west would ban this sort of "art". It shows no tallent its just a fucking picture of a plastic bin bag full of trash.
http://news.sky.com/story/gavin-turk-from-troublemaker-to-one-of-britains-finest-artists-10769682
At least the muslims and other Relgions inspire true art like massive paintings etc.

>>2371164
It's where an increasingly materialistic society ends up.
Really things that are considered works of art now would have been seen the same way in the past.

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>>2371199
Not just talking about the subject of the picture, its more about the tallent needed to make it. This is artists shit level of tallent.

Yes that is a real canned artist shit
Quote from wiki: A tin was sold for €124,000 at Sotheby's on May 23, 2007;[5] in October 2008 tin 83 was offered for sale at Sotheby's with an estimate of £50–70,000. It sold for £97,250. On October 16, 2015, tin 54 was sold at Christies for £182,500. The tins were originally to be valued according to their equivalent weight in gold – $37 each in 1961 – with the price fluctuating according to the market.[1]

I am sure michelangelo and Da vinci are spinning in their graves now.

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>>2363720

Risitas meme came from the muslim brotherhood of egypt

>>2363704
But most christian cults also ban iconography.

>>2367405
The Hagia Sofia is a church. The Muslims just took it and added some minarets.

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>Meanwhile in Christianity

>>2368522
The Blue Mosque isn't actually as architecturally nice, in a classical sense, as the Hagia Sophia - too many large supporting columns obscuring the central space.

>>2367129
>also, all abrahamic religions hate sexual interpretation and nudity

Seems like Christianity really had to moderate itself to appeal to the white/european mind in many respects.

>>2365377
nope
>/his/ wants to destroy Pisslam

>>2371365
>modern contemporary Christian art

>>2371324
Yes, that's my point. The bigass dilapidated church filled with unrelated garbage is still more impressive than the bigass well-maintained mosque.

>>2368522
I'm not saying that the blue mosque was garbage but it was much less impressive than hagia sophia, probably due to lacking some sort of focal point. And don't think I'm some sort of deus vult internet warrior, I really enjoyed istanbul as a whole.

It was funny though, some random girls came up to my moms husband and wanted to take a photo with him while we were in the mosque, for no other discernible reason other than that he has a big beard and funny glasses.
>>2371413
Those pillars were some impressive shit though, they're thicker than I am tall.

>>2369588
and look how the Coptic minority is treated now. Look at the hotbed of Islamic extremist elements in the country now. Look at the inbreeding. Cultural arabization ruined Egypt just as it ruined various bro-tier cultures throughout MENA.

>>2363704
>The Muslim ban on iconography means they can never produce true art
The Muslim ban on iconography means they can produce true worship

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>>2372919

>>2363704
Direclt inherited from their zoroastrian past


Muslim culture is primarly a nomadic artless culture, Persian art is an ETHNIC ART not a RELIGIOUS/MUSLIM ART.

>>2372937
Some good mental gymnastics exhibited by this post.

>>2367405
You do realise the Hagia Sophia was made by a Christian emporer?

>>2372989
you do realize I am talking about the hagia sofia because it is a church?

>>2363704
Art is subjective. That mosque seems pretty fucking beautiful to me.

>>2372972


Zoroastrian art ceased to be a religious art after the islamization of the Persians and

>>2373001
I could just easily say Catholic art is ethnic art inherited from their Hellenistic pagan past. Religions are not static, and beliefs meld and change as people worship them. It's called indigenization of religion.

>>2373019
see

quotes here

>>2364094

while your point of the fluid nature of innovation is well taken, there is also a case to be made here that a hugely disproportionate amount of Islamic achievement was by ethnic Persians. Western achievement has certainly hugely been influenced by the Greco-Roman past which is not something theyre shy about admitting. But those achievements were then used in pushing even further than what was accomplished by their predecessors. Wheres Arabs, not so much as is evident from the lack of achievement from the Arab world for many centuries now.

>>2373065
quotes by Ibn Khaldun, btw

>>2373065
>hurr it was by Iranian muslims not arab muslims so it doesn't count
Real solid argument

>>2373103
It counts as in, they were "Muslims". But Persians were already intellectuals prior to Islamization. You dont think its slightly disingenuous for arabs to parade the narrative of the "Islamic Golden Age" was not evenly spread out across the entire Muslim World and was mostly Persian-Muslims? Its technically correct, but slightly misleading.

Like said, the major thing that Islam did was provide lingua franca of arabic and Islam as a common framework. But as time went on, fundamentalism, arab tribalism and inbreeding crept in; rendering the arabized world as backwards as the original ethnic arabs were.

>>2373019
>Catholic art
There is no Catholic Art, there are Roman art, Byzantine art, Coptic art, Celtic art, Gothic art, and so on

>>2373300
No, what you argue is bordering on revisionism. There were plenty of Arab muslims operating within the Islamic Golden Age. Ibn al-Haytham, Al-Kindi, Ibn Tufail, Ibn Arabi, to name but a few examples. What is "slightly disingenuous" is your attempt to discredit prominent thinkers and Islamic philosophy by the smoke and mirrors tactic of charting it up to ethnic Persians.

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>>2373358
Same as Islam, there's no such thing as Islamic art, only Arabic art, Moorish art, Mughal Indian art, Ottoman Turkish art, etc

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>>2373391
persian style

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>>2373404
ottoman style

>>2373408
>ottoman style
>Hagia Sophia
>ottoman
>

wew lad

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>>2373408
At least post a building actually made by Ottomans, retard.

>>2373431
That's not Hagia Sophia. That's the Blue Mosque.

Granted it's a total rip-off of Hagia Sophia, but that's Ottoman style for you.

>>2373381
im sure there were plenty of arabs in terms of raw numbers but it was still majority persian my dude.

>https://parseundparse.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/the-golden-age-of-islam-another-theft-of-persian-heritage-and-history/


>Sa’d Ebne Abivaqqas asks: “What do we do with so many Persian books?” Omar replied: “We have the Quran, the most complete book ever and even if these Persian books are written in the meaning and purpose of the Quran wh have the original. And if they oppose the message of the Quran we do not need them.“ (Tarikhe Tabari, Ebne Hesham and Ebne Khaldun in their book ‘Moqaddama’)

I think its the Muslims who are revising history. Take away the Persians and there is no Islamic Golden Age or even Islam as we know it. Take away the Arabs and the Persians would have done fine.

>>2373446
>>2373431
you can differentiate between ottoman buildings and Byzantine buildings by colour, Byzantine buildings usually have brick facade or painted red/pink, Ottoman buildings are usually white in colour, the one I post is Selimiye mosque in Edirne/Hadrianople

>>2373446
That was built by the Ottomans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selimiye_Mosque

Does no one remember that Hagia Sophia is half bright orange?

>>2373381
>>Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of non-Arab (Persian) descent... They invented rules of (Arabic) grammar...[60] great jurists were Persians... only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, "If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it"... The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them... as was the case with all crafts...

Dont take it up with me, take it up with Ibn Khaldun

>>2373461
The Persians were muslims at that point, my man. There's no arguing against the flourishing of Islamic thought at that time period, in which Arabs, Persians, Turks, and even a few Andalusians took part.

>>2373381
>The Persians are the most civilized of the peoples of the East, and what the French are to Europe, they are to the Orient... Their bearing and countenance is the best-composed, mild, serious, impressive, genial and welcoming as far as possible. They never fail to perform at once the appropriate gestures of politeness when meeting each other... They are the most wheedling people in the world, with the most engaging manners, the most supple spirits and a language that is gentle and flattering, and devoid of unpleasant terms but rather full of circumlocutions.


>If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it.

>>2373503
>one guy said it so it's completely true!

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>>2373446
Moorish style

>>2373494
Yes, they were obviously Muslim-Persians. I think ts more fair to call it primarily the "Persian Islamic Golden Age"...with a handful of ethnic arabs, nestorians, and others.

>>2373518
Quotes by Ibn Khaldun, Jean Chardin, and last one is from Quran itself.

>>2364459
Imagine doing acid in here. Wow

>>2373555
I tripped once at a friend's house and he had a Persian rug hung up at the wall. It was beautiful.

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>>2373529
(Egyptian) Arabic style

>>2373545
You are talking out of your ass, that's not in the Koran, it's from a hadith.

>>2373461
>im sure there were plenty of arabs in terms of raw numbers but it was still majority persian my dude.

The problem with judging things on scale is that Arabs were a minority of the population, and Persians made up the majority of the Muslim world for a long time. Plus, what >>2364694 said.

>>2373580
wow that really destroys the point.

>>2373582

>Persians had a great influence on their conquerors. The caliphs adopted many Sassanid administrative practices, such as coinage, the office of vizier, or minister, and the divan, a bureaucracy for collecting taxes and giving state stipends. Indeed, Persians themselves largely became the administrators. It is well established that the Abbasid caliphs modeled their administration on that of the Sassanids.[19] The caliphs adopted Sassanid court dress and ceremony. In terms of architecture Islamic architecture borrowed heavily from Persian architecture.

>Iranians, since the beginning had interest and sincere efforts in compiling the study of Arabic etymology, grammar, syntax, morphology, figures of speech, rules of eloquence, rhetoric. Arabic was not seen as an alien language but the language of Islam and thereby Arabic was widely accepted as an academic and religious language and embraced in many parts of Iran. It was for the sake of the Qur'an and Islam that books of philosophy, mysticism, history, medicine, mathematics and law had been written or translated into this language.

>The most important scholars of almost all of the Islamic sects and schools of thought were Persian or live in Iran including most notable and reliable Hadith collectors of Shia and Sunni like Shaikh Saduq, Shaikh Kulainy, Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim and Hakim al-Nishaburi, the greatest theologians of Shia and Sunni like Shaykh Tusi, Imam Ghazali, Imam Fakhr al-Razi and Al-Zamakhshari, the greatest physicians, astronomers, logicians, mathematicians, metaphysicians, philosophers and scientists like Al-Farabi, Avicenna, and Nasīr al-Dīn al-Tūsī, the greatest Shaykh of Sufism like Rumi, and Abdul-Qadir Gilani.
One Abbasid Caliph is even quoted as saying:

"The Persians ruled for a thousand years and did not need us Arabs even for a day. We have been ruling them for one or two centuries and cannot do without them for an hour."[21]

>>2373659
You have no point. They were muslim, their contributions were Islamic. You're throwing in a "yeah but they were Persian so it wasn't muslim" which makes very little sense.

>>2373659
like I said ,I will concede that Islam and the Arabic language as a common framework was useful for cultivating this. But the fact still remains that most of it was on the back of ethnic Persians. In an alternate world, the Persians would done just fine in terms of achievement without Arabs and Islam. But arabs, not so much.

File: 002_cite-de-fatehpur-sikri_theredlist.png (2MB, 1142x702px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1142x702px

>>2373567
(Mughal) Indian style

>>2373677
>be adopted as a teen into family called the Smiths
>be the genius and high achiever of that family
>some siblings achieve stuff every now and then but you clearly outshine them.

>LOOK AT THE GENIUS OF THE SMITH FAMILY EVERYONE! THEYRE SUCH A FAMILY OF HIGH ACHIEVERS!

Technically correct but not a very accurate picture.

>>2373708
As has been discussed, Islamic contributors hailed from many different ethnic groups so your analogy holds no water. It isn't "technically" correct. It is correct. Also, your analogy doesn't make sense because conversion isn't fucking genetic. The Persians were muslim. Many - if not all - of the era's philosophers were born and raised muslim.

>>2373726
>As has been discussed, Islamic contributors hailed from many different ethnic groups so your analogy holds no water.
And I never denied this. I am merely asserting that Persians were clearly the leaders of achievement. I never claimed that other ethnic groups did not contribute whatsoever did I?

>Also, your analogy doesn't make sense because conversion isn't fucking genetic. The Persians were muslim.
check amended post; altered analogy slightly

>Many - if not all - of the era's philosophers were born and raised muslim

Never denied that, did I?

>>2363765
>Their calligraphy and mosque decorating is pretty
And both are from time before Muhammad.

Cult of Muhammad literally put a lid on any civilization that might have existed in the Arabian peninsula. Nothing worthwhile have come after that and many of the 'Arab inventions' are in fact of Persian or some other origin.

I mean what the fuck? Even Judaists and Christians (except for short period if you belive that 'dark medieval times' meme) have managed to produce fruits of civilization during their Old testament days, but not the followers of wrong prophet.

>>2373749
Christians and jews were just copying Zoroastrianism, desu. At least Islam has the common decency to make Zoroaster a prophet.

>>2373659
That doesn't challenge anything >>2373582 said.

>>2372888
ouch haha