Is it ethical to keep the (severely) mentally disabled alive

They should be gassed imho, if a fawn is born with a slight limp the doe abandons it after a whole five minutes to be eaten by predators. No fuss no muss.

>>2361926
Humans aren't birds though

>>2361932
Is the guy in the video a human in any real sense of the word?

>>2361940
He literally has human parents so I'd say yeah

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>>2361921

w-what are you some sort of Nazi...?

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>>2361921
Those that are currently alive? Probably, but that shouldn't be allowed to stop the society from making sure that no more of them will ever be born again.

>>2361921
>Is it ethical to keep the (severely) mentally disabled alive?


This is probably one of the only places where I go full right-wing and espouse they be removed and peacefully killed.

>>2361956

Same, especially considering Liberalism is a severe mental illness

>>2361921
Jesus christ. Get rid of that thing.
That thing will never contribute to the system in any other way than consuming, and shitting.

>>2361921
>Is it ethical?
No, definitely not
>Is it for the better good?
Yes, without a doubt

>>2361973
>contribute to the system
>remember goyim, you are merely human capital with no soul!

This is your brain on godless satanic capitalism.

>>2361921
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvB0w4-SqUM

For art

Many inflicted with serious conditions have very short lifespans anyway, some only living to 10. I would like to think they have a place but they become burdensome on their parents, making their life hell, having them around mostly drags down those around them.

>>2361975
Unfortunately this
Just like killing someone for 20$ without consequences is good for you pragmatically, it's not ethical whatsoever. We have to grit our teeth and help people like this. Also, the establishment of sponsored killings is too dangerous in terms of the categorilla imperative.

"Oh yes, let's kill all severely disabled people, they don't contribute shit to society and all they do is eat, sleep and shit! *keeps collecting NEETbux*"

You are all hypocrites.

>>2362045
>implying 90% of neets constantly contemplating suicide don't pray for the day they can die with dignity by slowly walking into a comfy state sponsored gas chamber

>>2361984
>the idea of contributing to a system that lets you live in the first place is jew magic
w e w

>>2362052
this x10

Absolutely. They contribute to the psychological well-being of those that love them by remaining alive and in good health. They are ultimately being paid and sustained for this service.

>>2362052
>projecting this hard

Not everyone is a /pol/cuck that espouses ideologies completely go against their way of life.

>>2361926
>>2361940
>>2361956
>>2361973
>>2361975

really worried about the future if this is what most people think these days

>>2362104
Denizens of 4chan aren't people.

>>2362104
You are on /his/, one of the most reddit boards, full of atheists utterly devoide of any appreciation of beauty or the metaphysical. What did you expect?

>>2361926
This. We have enough dead weights on society without funding retards

>>2362127
>killing off the weak is reddit tier
Just lol

>>2362152
>I don't want to share my welfare money with other useless people
Really makes you think.

>>2362157
>he hates wasting tax money so he must be not pay any taxes
Not following your logic, family

>>2361926
>>2361940
>>2361956
>>2361973
>I don't need God, I can be a good person and create my own set of moral values!
2 mins later
>Gas all disabled people, remove them from the genepool!

You people are fucking sick in the head

>>2362174
>remove them from the genepool
Virgin neckbeards are just jealous because even retards can breed.

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>>2361921
>Is it ethical to keep the (severely) mentally disabled alive?
yes, especially one ordained by divine right

Everyone wants to save themselves/people they know though. It's easy to say kill disabled people and I personally agree, and i mean the really bad cases constant seizures and self harm etc. But if it came to my own kid idk. Not like I have children but im sure there is some biological attachment involved even if it is deformed. And what about people you know and love? My girlfriend was arguing about this with a really intelligent guy whose going to harvard and he believes they should die, people shouldnt be kept alive etc. But my gf is his only friend im sure if she damaged her brain and lived as a disabled person he wouldn't be so quick to say that she should just die.

>>2362157
It takes a lot more time and money to support a severely disabled person as well and their life is going to be constant fucking hell.

>>2362184
It's still a human being with a will of it's own, desires and emotions. You can't endorse killing people off for the reason they're a burden. That is a slippery slope you never want to go down. Once you decide that killing people because they will be a burden is ethical then what about old people who need carers? What about the unemployed?

I feel for the mother, it's a terrible situation and I wouldn't wish that life on anyone but you can't start weighing up the value of human life differently without opening a Pandora's box that inevitably leads to pogroms.

>>2362184
If her life is absolutely miserable and she literally cannot do anything then she should die.

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>>2362184
People who begot disabled children should be also gassed.

>>2361921
yes, they have no control over how they were born just like you

>>2362127
>devoid of any appreciation of beauty

Ah yes, a fat autistic kid screaming like a banshee while trying to punch his mother in the face is beautiful.

Truly god made him perfect :)

>>2362182
Say what you want but Spain was better run under him then modern day Spaniards.

>>2362104
Edgelord

>>2362718
Franco did nothing wrong.

>>2362748
He's the edgelord? Not the unironic euginicists?

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>>2361921
No. They are an emotional and financial drain on the family and will never be able to continue your bloodline or contribute to the country. They are potatoes who will spend their entire lives drooling and gurgling and pissing themselves and needing constant care.
The ones who have already been born need to be euthanized and the ones who aren't yet born need to be aborted. Consider it a mercy killing.

t. grew up with a low-functioning autistic sister

I'm just gonna say, think of the effect on the sisiter, she obviously has social/mental issues now.

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So, I used to look at people with physical disabilities and think, "Surely, I can come up with a way to fix their deficiencies and bring them up to a functioning member of society," so I started to go to college again for biotechnology, advanced prosthesis allowing near human capabilities such as arms with full ranges of movement and hands that could grasp objects.

But then I got to thinking, why not go further? Is mental retardation not simply just another disability to be overcome? Perhaps with advanced MMI, we will be able to implant those with such crippling disabilities with a computer chip that can enhance specific functions of their brain, and perhaps force a sort of specific instruction set they can carry out to function within society. The chip would allow them to follow simple tasks in a rote fashion, giving them the ability to hold jobs like an assembly line worker or janitor or what have you. It's even possible as advances in technology happen, entire personalities could be programmed to give the illusion of higher level social functions to the individual, even if the person in question doesn't fully understand the situation himself.

Some would say this is cruel because we are essentially forcing the programmed will of a machine on a weak mind, creating a sort of slave, or worse, a human consciousness trapped in a machine that controls their functions. But would a person be aware of their predicament and feel revulsion to it, or would they be grateful they can contribute to society and function with others without being jeered at, feared, or entirely dismissed? I think if I were an alzheimer's patient, I would choose to undergo such a procedure to maintain as much function as I could towards my loved ones, but I'm not sure if everyone would feel that way.

>>2362127
>everyone I don't like is from reddit and an atheist

>>2362839
Sounds like the average virgin NEET.

It's unethical to make someone live through that kind of painful life for our own ego.

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Genocide is one of the most conspicuous examples of altruism, you are literally murdering someone for the "common good", a "common good" that conveniently excludes the sacrificial lamb.

/his/ is full of moral-nihilists that don't believe in anything until you mention eugenics.

>>2361921
I'm not the best at making arguments but I'll try stay unbiased. I believe the goodness of a person can me measured by how much they help someone that can do them no good in return. To view things in such black and white terms, the carers for some of these people gain great pleasure in their work and they are loved in return.

Granted some of the low functioning folk will not achieve great things like you all will but loving and being loved, this simplest mutual expression is all that counts.

The standard on usefulness and intelligence is askew too. Some low functioning people on the spectrum make up for their shortcomings with other areas of intelligence and caring. Everyone has their own strength and their own role to play and bit to contribute, who are any of us to judge in such linear terms?

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>>2361921
>"The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with a certain and great present evil. Hence we must bear without complaining the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely the weaker and inferior members of society not marrying so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased, though this is more to be hoped for than expected, by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage.”
>― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man

Keeping the mentally disabled alive is an aspect of human nature which, if removed, would lead to far greater evil than the residual goodness it does to the genetic line, as most of these less desirables do a fine enough job on their own not breeding, and indeed most of them can be made into productive members of society with the right training. And even if they don't, people who voluntarily raise their mentally handicapped children often say it's twice the work for twice the pay-off: your autistic child may pitch bitchfits but you don't have to worry about them running off and getting into trouble with Tyrone.

If we eliminate human empathy from the equation, we allow the most monstrous evils to justify themselves,

>>2362127
/his is a huge catholic circle jerk, bro.

If someone asks for death, then they should be allowed in the suicide booth, if not it's unethical.

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>>2362718

>Spain was better run under him then modern day Spaniards.

>>2361921
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZabjNlrOEo

>>2363426
This is ultimately the best answer. Allowing any form of governing body the power to decide certain citizens are "undesirable" is a really slippery slope. Mentally handicapped already do a decent job of not reproducing. There's no need to go out of your way to cease their existence.

At most, if it's detectable the option to abort the fetus should remain open to the parents as an act of mercy on all involved.

>>2363791
Stay mad Sancho.

>>2361921
I do think that its best to have an abortion if the child will have serious disabilities. But like others have said once its born killing it would be unethical, its still a human being and likley doesn't want to die.

But say we consider it ethical, who makes the decision tokill them and then do the deed? Parents are obviously not going to weigh the situation objectively, Doctors have the Hippocratic Oath to mantain so actively ending a life wont sit well and giving the Government the power to kill innocent people within a certain criteria has obviouss problems.

>>2363426
This

>>2363890
>>2363426

>BECAUSE ITS NEBULOUS AND HARD IT SHOULDN'T BE DONE BECAUSE WHOOO KNOOWS WAAAH

Hey, here's a nifty solution.
If they hurt themselves and cannot in any way exist in peace at the moment and foreseable future, in constant pain, seizures, and so on with tens of thousands of dollars only keeping them breathing, kill them.

If not, don't.

If someone attempts to radically change criteria, stop them.

>>2361921
If abortion was legal nationwide then there wouldn't be nearly as many of them

I bet those of you saying "kill the retards!" are the same ones that voted for Trump

>>2362127
Ahh yes, those who can't appreciate the beauty of a severely autistic boy, who ruined his families life by merely existing. Such beauty in the fact this child has the cognitive function of an over ripe satsuma

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Just sterilize the disabled and those who give birth to disabled children. Nobody has to be killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UwEQTME0oI

>>2361956
>peacefully killed

>>2361921
alive ones shouldn't be killed but retarded fetus should be aborted

People in this thread
>Disabled people are worthless, we should just """peacefully""" kill the.

Moments later
>Oh my god, how can these /pol/tards like someone as bad as Hitler!! They are so stupid XD

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>>2361921
I do feel remorse for this, but I believe people like him ought not to be born. I think although that is harder to say, it is kinder to do.
Perhaps we don't understand autism well enough though, perhaps there could be a cure. But until we have that cure or solution or understanding, I think abortion is the way to go.

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>>2363426
I'm with this anon.

>>2363426
but is preserving the severely disabled born empathy or a fear of doing the "wrong" thing?
The metaphor of a surgeon can applied here as well. If we view the entire human populace as a body, with the parts that make it up being people, is it not desirable to remove the parts which are bad for the body, harming it or hindering it?
We label criminals as undesirable, and rightly so. We would not hesitate to execute pedophiles and murders, and rightly so. They've consciously done wrong.

I don't know. Unchecked empathy is as harmful as unchecked brutality, and both are useful in their time. I don't think its as simply as pointing out the slippery slope, which indeed exists. It doesn't really answer the question.
If we are so happy with mentally handicapped people breeding themselves out of existence, why not help them along?
I honestly think it is kinder to both the child and their family to abort.

>>2361921
No its literally a defective human, it would have died in the wild a long time ago.

>>2363359
You don't know how this kind of autism works. Low functioning autistic people don't feel love. They're incredibly self centered. It's not their fault, but they can be horrible people.

Let's just say I went into a summer job at a home for the mentally disabled full of compassion and warmth, then left missing a lot of my hair (a child in a man's body pulled a huge chunk of it it including some scalp) and my trust in the system (sexually assaulted by an older patient and they swept it under the rug "oh he just does that sometimes. I forgot to tell you not to be alone with him!").

If I were ever to become pregnant with an autistic child I would abort them in a heartbeat. I won't even get into how expensive it is to take care of them or how dead their parents/relatives eyes looked.

The continued existence of those who consume society's resources with neither the ability (including future ability, in the case of children and the temporarily incapacitated) nor intention to offset their consumption with productivity, is a direct impediment to the current primary objective of our species, which is establishing the grounds for our indefinite survival.

Impeding the primary objective is the highest order of unethical action.

It depends how retarded they are.
If they are just very stupid humans or some which think in queer ways then they should be helped.
If there is no way to safe them from constant suffering, their family does not want them and they are not able to voice simple, general opinions then it may be better to kill them as letting them life would harm the life of their relatives in a greater way then the one harmed of a being that is neither able to remember or articulate in any sort of way what it did 3 weeks ago.

Limitations for this must be insanely high and strict or the slippy slope starts getting slippy.

>>2361955
what the fuck is that thing

>>2364170
You could say the same of most humans considered non-defective.

>>2361921

Yes, it's ethical because their existence serves an important role: Making it prohibitively difficult and risky for the mother to continue to reproduce defective offspring.

People may say that abortion is better in that case, but it isn't. Like plastic surgery hiding the fact that your ugly and your kids will come out ugly, aborting unborn children until one comes out okay hides your defective genes that have now been passed on to viable offspring.

Killing off mentally ill people at will will only lead to more dysfunction in the long run because people with shit genes will remain in the gene pool if they don't have to devote the rest of their lives to dealing with their dysfunctional spawn.

>>2361921

I do think abortion should be legal for just such occassions.

NO parent deserves or wants that type of ETERNAL burden. This poor woman will have to deal with this shit until one of them dies.

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>>2361932
>fawn >doe
>Birds

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>>2363242
Another Stellaris player

>people who are posting on a Afghanistan guerilla warfare message board actually have the gall to say others should have been aborted or killed off

Trust me, if you're posting on 4chan, you would not have survived any future implantation of gene Cadillac baby creations.

>>2364147
>The metaphor of a surgeon can applied here as well. If we view the entire human populace as a body, with the parts that make it up being people, is it not desirable to remove the parts which are bad for the body, harming it or hindering it?

I didn't realize tumors have sentience

>We would not hesitate to execute pedophiles and murders, and rightly so. They've consciously done wrong.

That's not as universally excepted as you're claiming it is.

> Unchecked empathy is as harmful as unchecked brutality

Explain.

>>2362179
Retards don't breed though, that's the most hilarious thing about muh nu-eugenics. 90% of what these morons target never even put a baby in anyone in the first place!

>Gays
>trannies
>Mentally disabled
>Genetic freaks


Do you really think these people are knocking up every bitch that comes to town? That the list above represents the breeding desires of every woman on Earth?

Really it's just a closet excuse to suggest gassing the niggers/jews rather than any logical stance.

>>2364147
>If we view the entire human populace as a body

Kill yourself, we're not an ant hive no matter how hard you try to force yourself to be an ant. Collectivization is the most retarded idea on Earth and it leads to even more retarded ideas like the rest of your post.

>>2364096
These people are suffering, they're making all those around them suffer too.
You would have to be very shitty person to want them to live.

>>2361921
If people can pay to maintain useless individuals, then they should live, but no way in hell should the state provide for these people.

>>2365902
You're making me suffer with your wrought stupidity. I should gas you.

One Dresden wasn't enough.

>>2365914
It's okay anon you'll forget about it in a few hours.
These people though, they'll keep suffering until they die.

>>2362045
nice projection, i have a job
you want to take care of them so bad? volunteer full time then

>>2361921
No. I only have bipolar disorder and I'm building a guillotine for myself the moment I graduate.
>irreversible demyelination of white matter
>irreversible loss of Von Economo bodies
>severe loss in orbitofrontal grey matter
>hallucinations, occasionally
>this is heritable

Shit's fucked. Tell your wife not to have kids after 40.

>>2365936

When did manic depression become associated with neurodegeneration?

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>>2361994
Holy fuck, I just watched Drive not too long ago
Made me kek

>>2365902
You can't kill people because they're a burden. It's unethical. All human life has the exact same value, disabled or not. You throw that idea away and you go down a very dark path.

>>2365947
For years! Mostly through research overlap with the much more well-funded people behind Alzheimers, Picks disease and SZ research. It started with amygdala grey matter deficits, then the orbitofrontal, then ACC, then very recently the anterior insula.

My psych even calls it "bipolar suite", since the classification of Type I and Type II is slowly being phased out given the understanding of extremely heterogeneous genetic expression in the literature.

Page 8 and down has a condensation of the meat you'll want.
http://www.ifrao.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/HelvenstonBednarik2011.pdf

>>2365947
Since the 1940's if not earlier. Bipolar Is get it the worst because they go through mania and often psychosis. Mania rots your frontal lobes and psychosis rots your frontal lobes even harder. Bipolar IIs generally don't get it much worse than major depressives because their hypomania is rare and less damaging to the brain.

And yes, depression itself is neurodegenerative. Chronic inflammation is bad for the brain, yo.

Cyclothymics haven't been reported to have any neurodegeneration though they are at high risk of progressing to one of the two conditions above.

>>2364170
the vast majority of the population would die in the wilderness.

>>2364224
Sure, but it exists on a spectrum, i mean i'm autistic and i ended up a sack of worthless shit, but a relatively successful sporty dude i knew also had autism, and then there was a dude who never learned to talk, there's a reason that it's a spectrum and not a single disorder.

>>2365958
Bipolar spectrum is hardly consensus in the field, even though Is and IIs are a bit closer genetically than we used to think.

The biggest problem toward its acceptance is figuring out cyclothymia, hyperthymia, and dysthymia. The closer you get to the general population in terms of dysfunction, the more controversial it gets. And Kraepelin's temperaments have been chronically understudied since the beginning, something that is only just now starting to reverse itself as we realize every factor that leads to severe mood disorder.

>>2364147
>If we are so happy with mentally handicapped people breeding themselves out of existence, why not help them along?
Everybody gets their chance at life, everybody has the chance to succeed, this is the creed of a successful society.

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>>2362104
O_O enough internet for one day right?

Fuck off

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>>2365966
>>2365988
Person who clearly knows what they're talking about, is lithium the best hope for a Type I?
Do you know if above-mean cognitive empathy score with below-mean emotional empathy are reasonable variants within Type I, and also will the neurotrophic effects of lithium address this over time?

>pic unrelated, but edgy

>>2364224
Like I said in my first post it is hard for me to not be bias towards this as I've both cared for and have had family members on the spectrum from a young age. Caring comes with it's own trials but you become stronger for it and they show love in their own way.

I'm not qualified or intelligent to talk about the impact or benefit they bring to society but christ 'regular' people can be so damn cruel, openly mocking anyone perceived to be different it's a jest we consider ourselves civilised.

If we had a society that valued the ideals that anyone can progress and anyone can get redemption rather than lumping people into categories from birth and saying all these people will be failures. Who are we to predict the future and have the last say on if they will lead 'fulfilling' lives. What the fuck is fulfilling anyway? 2 kids, a wife and a sports car? Just loving and being loved in return is enough.

Killing them is too far. I wouldn't have an issue with keeping them on drugs though, it's only gonna benefit their quality of life.

>>2366083

This kind of unchecked compassion is a threat to the continued existence of the human species.

If our long-term survival was reasonably certain, I'd agree wholeheartedly with you, but it is not, and so I cannot. Attitudes like yours create too large a risk that Earth will be both the cradle and grave of humanity.

>>2366083
>'regular' people can be so damn cruel
Regular, not normal. Correct.
The masses are seriously bitter and hate-filled because they have pathetic lives and cowards always blame other people, in frustration.
However, slow people are extremely hard to endure. As you said.

>>2363741
You misspelled protestant (((bro)))

>>2362174
>I'm incapable of showing why something is bad or good so I'm gonna just go with what some dude claimed regarding some other dude's hallucinations about the will of the creator of reality and mock people's inability to live morally without said second hand account of voices in one's head

>>2361921
90% of pregnancies in Europe that are found to be autist are aborted, at least in France. So no, they will live horrible grotesque lives and be a monetary drain on the state and their family, while never contributing. It was unethical to not abort the thing in the video, it's even cruel in my mind.

>>2362839
You're right except for the last point, no one should be euthanized but abortion should be useful for once.

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>>2366192
>How dare you imply I can't live morally by myself!
>*posts in a thread with people unironically calling for disabled people to be exterminated*

>>2363934
> Hippocratic Oath
Idk man if most doctors would let a "Trans" person mutilate themselves and put themselves on the the road to a 36x more likely chance to commit suicide instead of getting them therapy I don't think they are many ethical standards left.

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>tfw high-functioning autistic

I don't want anyone who's been born to be killed. They all deserve to live. Who are we to be so unkind, when we ourselves have received so many blessings?

>>2364014
I didn't vote for Trump, but bringing something into life so it can literally suffer for it's entire existence is unethical and I would not relegate my child to it, and hopefully neither should you. No one except the memers are asking for euthanization, but abortion is the right way.

>>2362188
>You can't endorse killing people off for the reason they're a burden. That is a slippery slope you never want to go down. Once you decide that killing people because they will be a burden is ethical then what about old people who need carers? What about the unemployed?

This so much fucking this but they're too many edgelords on this site to even think through the ramifications of killing people off for whatever reason

>ITT people who don't contribute shit to society judge over other people who don't contribute shit to society
Really makes you think.

>>2361921
To be honest every time I come across someone who's physically or mentally disabled I start to more and more believe that they should be euthanized. And I have a sister who has been both of those things since birth. Maybe I'm a psychopath or just too utilitarian. Though if you take it far enough I'd probably end up euthanized too.

>>2361973
To be fair that describes most of the NEETs on 4chan too.

>>2361921
As the only actual taxpayer in this thread I see no reason why they should be killed, just leave them be.

>>2366213
>France is a country we should try to emulate

When did this board go full retard?

>>2363994
>>BECAUSE ITS NEBULOUS AND HARD IT SHOULDN'T BE DONE BECAUSE WHOOO KNOOWS WAAAH
It's not like that at all. It's a matter of not cutting off your nose to spite your face.

>Hey, here's a nifty solution.
I have a better one:

Let the parents decide for themselves if they want to abort or save their severely autistic child and stop telling them what's good for them.

>>2366562
A neet does not use up the same amount of resources as that kid, he also doesnt require as much attention and he probably feels actual happiness from time to time.

>>2366228
>its moral to let people suffer like this.

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I don't know, but the people who become severely mentally disabled should be killed for their own sake. If you died, would you want to have your corpse taxidermied and paraded around in various humiliating and disgraceful positions a decade before they finally put you in the ground? Would you want that for your family? By sanctifying life you paradoxically devalue it.

>>2365954
>All human life has the exact same value, disabled or not.
this is blatantly preposterous, and all it takes to reject that notion is to look at the world

Do you value people the same? If your mom or wife dies, do you cry more than if a stranger on the street dropped dead? Does the world cry more if a genius or hero's life is ended prematurely than if a tyrant died?

But let's say all human life is equally valuable. Why does this not extend to non-human life forms? The retarded are obviously not as intellectually or even emotionally capable as a normal human. Why are they more valuable than dogs and cats? Why are dogs and cats more valuable than insects? Why are insects more valuable than bacteria? Humanity is on a sliding scale along with all other life, so what right do you have to make the cutoff point just where human ends and other life begins?

>>2361932

Plato would like a word with you

>>2364147
>They've consciously done wrong.
The disabled did not consciously choose to be that way, so comparing them to criminals is incorrect. Indeed, we punish criminals less who don't understand right from wrong, send them to hospital instead of jail.

>>2365212
However, some severe disabilities are not hereditary. Your parents could be above the curve in every way and you still might end up sloppy due to random chance, your siblings being perfect specimens. What then? Did this scenario not occur to you?

>>2361921
This is something I think about alot. I ask two questions. Is it moral to alter the fetus in its beginning to prevent this? But if this is done, will other more virulent diseases occur? Also would removing these people from our gene pool remove our ability to feel empathy?

Look at that video and think about the position the mother is in. She is in hell. There's no arguing about it. Her child is a monster she can't control and its not even her fault. But due to that we feel pangs of empathy and tell ourselves "good god, that's fucking terrible".

Personally, I think it should be a choice. If a parent doesn't want to risk it then they should be allowed to terminate the pregnancy.

>>2362127

Did you just call eugenics reddit tier?

>>2366130
>muh species

Our long term survival is fucked no matter how many eugenics wet dreams you try to push. Invest in colony ships if you care so much about the survival of apes.

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>>2361921
I'm an aspie and I gotta say these really severe cases of mental retardation are sad as hell. I don't think the ones that are alive now should be genocided, but if a mother knows her kid will be as fucked up as the one in the video she should consider aborting.

>>2367848
>muh feelings define reality

>muh evolution is an end goal

>muh dogs are valuable cuz they're my furriend

My sides

Actually study biology, not rely on truisms, and then get back to me son.

>>2361973
>contribute to the system
Looks like somebody doesn't mind being a resource for the more powerful to use as they wish.

>>2362104
It's 4chan.

Not the severely mentally disabled.

Until we can create technology and medical practices that can fix them/ dial it down to a tolerable level, than they should be put down.

I see it like someone with incurable locked-in syndrome. Sure, there could be consciousness there. There probably is. But if you can't express it, and you have to depend on machines and other people for basic functions in life beyond the age where that would be expected, than putting them down would be the same as mercy killing someone on a battlefield when their limbs are blown off and there's no chance of them living past a few hours.

End the suffering. Only for the absolute worst cases, of course, like those who are a step above a vegetative state or in unending terrible pain.

>>2361921
For severe cases, especially those that can be known before birth or just after it, I do think they should be put down. I think we do so much for them not for them, but for our own sense of self righteousness. These people tend to tear the families they're born into apart, and cause mostly just pain on others, pain that's endured because they /occasionally/ make others happy.

I used to work with developmentally challenged/retarded teenagers, ask me any questions about the topic.

>>2369324

We'll never start building colony ships if people insist on fixing all our problems here on Earth first.

If we try to establish peace and prosperity and love for everyone before focusing on goals that actually matter in the short term, we'll never make it to the long term.

>>2367848
Ethically all human life has the same value. I'm not talking about it from any other perspective. The reason for this should be blatantly obvious, because when you start valuing some human life higher than other human life you end up with shit like the holocaust, where people are murdered en-masse for being 'subhuman'.

This is true for things like medical care. At least you should hope it does because if you get wheeled into the emergency room at the same time as a billionaire by your own logic the doctors should ignore you and focus on the person with higher value to society.

Your arguments are preposterous, and frankly, morally repugnant. You talk like an edgy 14 year old.

>>2361921

The question is where do we draw the line? 83% of autistic adults in Britain are not employed full time but 17% are. What are the criteria for being allowed to live?

Is it ethical to keep anybody alive?
People experience an extreme fear response while being killed but that's all that really keeps them alive. Get it over with I say

>>2363426
>twice the pay off
What pay off? There is none.

>>2367873
Calm down there Diogenes

>>2362174
no contradiction - no jesus is there to punish euthanasia

>>2364052
>these people think it's funny to keep those two alive when they are either in constant pain or unable to actually enjoy existence
>the fucking dog is more self-aware then they

Delusion is powerful.

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>>2365856
Ayyyy

>>2371705
>talented
>intelligent
>r9k
pick 1

>>2362104
Blame the leftards for making tolerance a ridiculous concept

>>2369808
Being employed

>>2362188
>You can't endorse killing people off for the reason they're a burden.

Tell that to abortionists

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Most mentally disabled with less than a very severe disability I know at least work menial labor jobs and therefore contribute more to society than 90% of the neets on /pol/.

To answer your question though.

A person with a severe mental disability is nearly an infant or very young child, therefore it has all the rights of an infant or child and is sequestered to the exclusive care of parents.

Whether there should or shouldn't be state institutions to take care of such people who are unwanted by their parents is an open question.

But to break into someone's home, take their ward from them and then to execute them is a gross violation and abuse of state power.

>The mentally disabled are a burden to me

You could just as easily be a burden to me as a mentally disabled person, would that justify my murder of you?

The only real solution to that problem is to create a minimal state where no citizen is an extraordinary burden outside of a circumstance derived from free and voluntary association.

Viola, your neighbor could keep a literal herd of mentally disabled people in their backyard and it would have no relevance to you.

>tfw when one of my cousin has mild autism and we all try to be nice to her but we no she has no future, and at 26 she still hasn't had a real job ever.

We are nice to her even though she can be very rude sometimes because she always speaks her mind. I wouldn't want her killed because my cousins still love her and i know she does as well.

>tfw another cousin (from my mothers side this time) has SEVERE autism
We're talking shit-flinging, wall-headbutting, animalistic screeching here. Please just put her in an asylum already and give my poor aunt some rest. But once again it's too late to euthanize her. You don't want to do that to people who don't realize there's a problem going on for them and lack the capacity to understand the scope of "good" and "bad" in what they do. It's too late.

I honestly think having a retarded child is the worst thing that can happen to a couple

>>2371748
Is she sexy?
Would you fuck her?

>>2365977
>>2366083
>this kind of autism
>low functioning

Do either of you read? Or were you looking for a reason to stand on your stump.

>>2371774
No they are both ugly as sin and make me uncomfortable

>>2366083
Also my goodness did you get completely off point do you could stand a bit taller on your horse. I never said anything about killing adults, but instead I said that I would use my right to abort an autistic child.

Believe me, I was patient and caring at my summer job. Some of the people there were lovely, like the woman with Angelman's. Some would tear out your hair or try to rip off your clothes while humping you.

But hey, guess me stating my experience with severe autism and my unwillingness to have an autistic child of my own gives you the perfect opportunity to lord yourself above others and pretend you're a saint. Glad your family can afford to care for an autistic child, unlike so many others.

>>2362188
It has about as much cognitive function to contemplate its will, desires and emotions as a cow does. Are you a vegetarian, anon?

>>2369705
>muh morals
>muh holocaust slippery slope
terrible

and I don't think the doctors shouldn't ignore me, because I give zero shits about the billionaire, I value myself over him. I'm not saying the retarded are OBJECTIVELY worth less, I am saying they're SUBJECTIVELY worth less and that this is all that matters because you cannot gain OBJECTIVE knowledge about the world, due to being a subject of it. All life being equally valuable is just some abstract little thought you have in your head, when the choice would come between paying for your moms cancer treatment or saving the lives of a dozen burmese sweatshop workers you would choose the former every time, and nobody should expect anything else of you.

And go ahead, come with a non-preposterous argument for objective human value that doesn't rely on slippery slope arguments and appeals to emotion based on contemporary moral judgments. How exactly do you find this ethical value?

But go ahead, call me an edgelord for looking at the world not filtered through increasingly unstable moral systems.

>>2369705
You only think in theory. If you had to choose to save your mother or a crackwhore you would save your mother. Not all humans have the same value.

>>2365877
>I didn't realize tumors have sentience
Cows have sentience and we eat them.

What about high functioning disabled people? Ie, add, assburgers? I have add and am lagging behind my peers, but i can still take care of myself, work and contribute to society.

Also if you advocate killing retards when you yourself is browsing this Tajikistanian silk-weaving forum then you should take a good look at your slouchy husk and kill yourself

I think that the difference between this "undesirables" and another ones; remains in potential for sustaining themselves. Even criminals, given the enough traning can become independent. In the case of old people, they at least contributed during their youth, so they can catch a break.

>>2361921
Is it ethical for you even consider this?

>>2364717
It's what people used for nose reduction in babies. Often with fatal results, sadly.

I think it is pretty self-evident that the goal of eugenics is not to cull and murder "undesirable people", but to insure that the lowest amount of "undesirable" will ever be born.

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Who are you to decide who lives and dies?

>>2373450
You're not disabled like that kid is.

>>2372510
>>2372527
You're confusing how individuals treat people with how societies treat people. Yes an individual values people closer to them, but society must treat all the individuals in it as equals with equal rights. Do you guys understand why family members are not allowed to be part of the Jury in the judicial system? Individual bias cannot be allowed to dictate how we treat people in society. You, personally, might value your mother more than a crackwhore, but under the law they are equals with the exact same rights as are disabled people, as it should be.

>>2372302
If we started using cognitive function to decide who gets to live in our society then you'd be the first on the chopping block, I wouldn't go down that road if I were you

>>2361921
Yes. No one deserves to be killed. What gives you the right to take another person's life away?

>>2375931
>but society must treat all the individuals in it as equals with equal rights
Says who?

>>2371728

Then you should be trying to redefine tolerance into something more genuine, rather than being weak and accepting the definition provided by people you disagree with in order to cover your own defects.

>>2376820
For the sake of efficiency.
It can even be seen as a mercy. Hitler called retards 'trapped souls'. I'm inclined to agree with that language

>>2362104
>most people

>>2375943
>I have no argument against eugenics beyond "it feels icky", time to insult anyone who vaguely suggests it

>be 4chan
>against abortion even in cases of potentially genetically shit baby
>support euthanization of disabled children
>shiggidydiggidydoodah

>>2361921
poor mom shes cute

This thread has made me appreciate some decent arguments against my stance that euthanasia of severely disabled children should at least be an option, if not mandatory.

Though if an accident ever happened to me and I became a vegetable or in some other way severely disabled, I'd certainly want to be euthanized. I suppose part of that is that I understand, unlike people born with severe disabilities, what it's like to have regular cognition and mental function. The idea of life without that would thus be a living hell.

>>2361926
The pragmatist in me likes your comment. The rationalist in me loves you.

>>2361921
Here's a sad but true story, something this reminded me of.

When I was in high-school I worked at a lumber yard and about once a month a 40-50 year old mentally disabled guy would come in and buy a few scraps of wood for little projects. He was friendly, but kind of frustrating to work with because he talked so slowly/stuttered and he always got his order wrong. The one time I was trying to make conversation with him and I asked him what he did for a living. He said, I don't work anymore the government pays me, but I used to be an engineer. Not really sure where he was going with that and not really believing him, I asked why he wasn't an engineer anymore. He said, a bunch of nigger kids beat me up pretty bad, I was in a coma for a while, I don't think they caught any of them but I've been dumb for 20 years. And then he kind of just looked at me and said "I don't like being dumb"

I haven't worked there for about 9 years now, but I still think about that guy pretty often

>>2361921

Apparently, autistic people do even bite when they get furious.

>>2377810
most people here including myself support mandatory abortions for non-White/non-Japanese people

>>2361921

Absolutely not.

Nah.

>>2363844
>someone took the time to make this

>>2361921
we keep you alive

>>2361921
If you legalize killing (failing to provide the necessities of life is still murder in every civilized society, calling it not bothering to keep them alive does not absolve you of causing their death) inconvenient people are you not concerned where that might lead?

Today it's the "severely disabled" tomorrow it's the elderly, the sick, the weak, the inferior.

>>2365779
A lot them feel like they deserve it. Most all of them would rather die themselves than let their child die, no matter how disabled they are.
As for your solution, that would miss lots of them, probably most of them. There's no test for neurological underdevelopment in the womb, or indeed in newborns, you have to wait until they start interacting with the world, and you can't be sure until they start talking-- or fail to start talking.
t. older sibling of a moderately mentally handicapped girl and a severely mentally handicapped boy whose mom supports abortion

>>2361956
that's not a right/left matter, right and left are about economics

>>2361973
I have a sister that's about two steps above that level and a brother that's one step below, maybe two steps. This boy could do something useful as long as he has supervision, he could sort things, fold clothes, maybe even bag groceries or put things back where they should be. You have to be pretty much totally non-communicative or totally detached from reality to not be of some use to someone.

>>2367740
/r9k/ suggests otherwise

>>2380697
>right and left are about economics

No.

It's a spectrum of government control from anarchy to totalitarianism. Anarchy being on the rightmost edge, totalitarianism being on the leftmost edge.

They differ in economic though, right wants less taxes and government involvement in general, left wants redistribution via taxation.

>>2362001
that's a small part
most of them live to 50 or 55, which is long enough to outlive their parents and usually any older siblings
t. guy really concerned about his mentally challenged brother that's about 20 years younger than him

>>2378295
>a bunch of nigger kids beat me up pretty bad
desu he was probably a dick anyway

>>2364224
did those parents have other kids or other things to do though?

>>2364103
you can't detect autism in the womb, you can't even detect it that early
until there's some breakthrough, the only way to do this is to kill humans that have lived several years already

>>2380754
>implying there are consistently applicable definitions

>>2380854
There are, unless you are talking to leftypol in which case every form of overt government control of society they don't like moves to the far right.

>>2366119
pretty much all of them are on something
you wouldn't want to see the alternative

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>>2361947
>le happy merchant.jpg
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Why did you curse me to live alongside these people god?

>>2380920

saved mang.

>>2380754
that's a different spectrum
there are two widely recognized political spectra, and there are several more that aren't getting their due attention

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>>2380754

Congratulations.

You just wrote the stupidest shit I read today.

And I've been on /pol/.

>>2376820
Define personhood.
A blind and deaf one can be teached to be able to show his humanity with some effort.
A mongoloid is a retard but can voice opinions, show happiness born from something else then mere satisfaction of his primal urges and can grasp the concept of the self still rather easily.
In those rare cases were a human shaped thing can neither voice opinions of any kind even with help to circumvent biological shortcomings, fails to grasp the concept of it being and also shows animation only for the most basic needs it cant be truly called a person anymore but still destroys the quality of life of the persons that parented it.

>>2380810
But malicious niggardry is real and not a rightwing myth even if it hurts your feefees. In europe. We have muzzieyouth sometimes lust-killing random people by stompig them retarded or to death without any provocation given. Yes, this behaviour is not shown by certain demographics like east asians here. Fuck criminal Niggers in whatever shade they come, people like you, deniying the obvious at the cost of lifes was the first thing that me truly poloticially hateful in my life.

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>>2380952
Nice argument

>>2377033
Anyone who doesn't inevitably want their society to deem some minority 'impure' and purge them.

>>2381493
b8

>>2381499
Why not legalize heroin and advertise it like Coca-Cola, subsidize it with tax breaks and glamorize it like diamonds? You could have stores with massage chairs/IV.

>>2381504
What the fuck are you talking about

>>2381508
There would definitely be a purge.

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>>2361947
Wait I thought narrative stated they were for this.

>>2381500
Is it?

>>2380952
It saddens me the political spectrum has been bastardized so completely that people have no idea what it actually stands for.

People used to just incorrectly stick fascism on the far right edge. Now it's a fucking gong show and apparently nobody remembers what it actually was anymore.

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>>2381531
We people take 'collectivism' as default, then we move from right to left according to the reach and size of government.

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>>2367873
My fucking sides

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>>2367873

>>2381499
that only happens in pleb societies like nazi germany where mob rule is emphasized

the mob cannot stand anything unlike itself, and so it attacks

>>2381531
The political spectrum has no point except to dumb down thinking and for autists to have something to categorize by

>>2361921
No, They can serve no purpose to society and will just bring others down.
And other than that, the child is clearly in distress just put him down like you would a cat or something.

>>2371705
wouldnt the government be a theocracy?

>>2361921
Euthanasia, via methods like abortion, is ethical. catching this shit in the womb and scraping them away is critical.

>>2362188
>but you can't start weighing up the value of human life differently without opening a Pandora's box that inevitably leads to pogroms.

Perhaps we NEED a few pogroms for the human race to advance.

>>2365966
>And yes, depression itself is neurodegenerative. Chronic inflammation is bad for the brain, yo.

One day, as soon as my stepmother dies, I'm just going to stop goin to dialysis.

Just gonna get loaded up on codene and booze and fall asleep one night and never wake up.

In a sane world, I would be allowed to simply die with dignity without the threat of being locked up in a nursing home or a looney bin if I fail to die.

>>2386100
Feel free to be the first to line up to get euthanized

>>2369705
>t least you should hope it does because if you get wheeled into the emergency room at the same time as a billionaire by your own logic the doctors should ignore you and focus on the person with higher value to society.

And why not?

>>2386183
read.>>2386170

>>2361921
No, they should be aborted in the first place

>>2362174
You're just a moralfag pussy

>>2362127

Yes and nothing shows the beauty of God more than a violent autistic robbing his mother of the will to live

>>2369337
Biology is descriptive not normative, one needs independent ethics to make value assessments.

>>2369643
How did these people feel about themselves? Where they aware of the suffering of those around them?

>>2369705
That is such a fallacious slippery slope argument and even then it is non-sequitur. What determines value according to you