>The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man

>>2353683

>slavs
>white

that was your first mistake anon

>>2353683

It's like that with any ascribed trait. Race, sex, sexuality, etc. You didn't choose it and it's nothing to be proud of.

>>2353712
Imagine if the population of earth were 100% white. People would laugh at you if you said "I'm superior because some other man accomplished this"

>>2353683
Book, chapter and page.

>>2353712

It's more difficult to be a minority, so that common suffering is a source of pride

>>2353723
The wisdom of life, page: find it yourself.

If i have a positive trait i see no reason not to be proud of it.

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>>2353694
What are they?

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Schopenhauer disliked a lot of things.

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>>2353795
>mfw I see Hegelians to this day

>>2353821
The original /r9k/er

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>>2353826
Indeed

>>2353683
This is bullshit though because most people are and always will be thoroughly average and forgettable. Most people are flat out incapable of standing out from the greater mass of humanity no matter how hard they try, and in such a situation identifying with and taking pride in the achievements of your own racial/ethnic group is absolutely inevitable.

>>2353743
>If i have a positive trait i see no reason not to be proud of it.

The point is your nationality is not a positive trait.

>>2353832
>and in such a situation identifying with and taking pride in the achievements of your own racial/ethnic group is absolutely inevitable.

Yeah, because an individual relinquishing his own individuality for the sake of an abstract ideal of nationality and herd consciousness isn't a willing action on individual's part.

If you are truly independent, self-contented and intellectual, you will not have an inherent need to gravitate towards the herd.

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>>2353832
>projecting this hard

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وَأَوْحَىٰ رَبُّكَ إِلَى النَّحْلِ أَنِ اتَّخِذِي مِنَ الْجِبَالِ بُيُوتًا وَمِنَ الشَّجَرِ وَمِمَّا يَعْرِشُونَ

And your Lord inspired to the bee, "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct.

ثُمَّ كُلِي مِن كُلِّ الثَّمَرَاتِ فَاسْلُكِي سُبُلَ رَبِّكِ ذُلُلًا ۚ يَخْرُجُ مِن بُطُونِهَا شَرَابٌ مُّخْتَلِفٌ أَلْوَانُهُ فِيهِ شِفَاءٌ لِّلنَّاسِ ۗ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ

Then eat from all the fruits and follow the ways of your Lord laid down [for you]." There emerges from their bellies a drink, varying in colors, in which there is healing for people. Indeed in that is a sign for a people who give thought.

>>2353832

That doesn't make it "bullshut;" that's what he's saying, that nationalism/racism/whatever is for retard normies.

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Καὶ περὶ ἐνδύματος τί μεριμνᾶτε; Καταμάθετε τὰ kρίνα τοῦ ἀγροῦ, πῶς αὐξάνει· οὐ kοπιᾷ, οὐδὲ νήθει·

And why take ye thought for raiment?
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow;
they toil not, neither do they spin:

>>2353850
Since when does taking pride in and identifying with your own ethnic group mean you also can't have individual thoughts and desires?

>independent,
See above
>self-contented and intellectual
Nobody on this fucking website is the first and frankly the latter thing isn't nearly what it's cracked up to be.

>>2353851
Simple statements of fact are not projection.

>>2353826
No. It would be Plato for the West. If you include Eastern philosophy you can go back even further.

"For the case of my dead let it be known that I despise the german nation for its overbearing stupidity and are ashamed to be a part of it"

>>2353859
Except that's wrong too because plenty of smart sophisticated people have also chosen nationalism over egalitarianism, marxism, globalism, or whatever fucking other ism you care to to name.

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יְקָ֣רָה הִ֭יא [מִפְּנִיִּים כ] (מִפְּנִינִ֑ים ק) וְכָל־חֲ֝פָצֶ֗יךָ לֹ֣א יִֽשְׁווּ־בָֽהּ׃

She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.

>>2353875
>Since when does taking pride in and identifying with your own ethnic group mean you also can't have individual thoughts and desires?

Taking pride into accomplishments of an entity that is not yourself is in stark contrast with any form of individuality and is absurd as it gets.

It isn't about having individual thoughts and desires, but rather, identifying whether the pressure of their origin arises from within you, or the exterior idea, or an ideology of nationalism in this specific case.

>>2353903
But they can afford it because at least they are smart. They are smart DESPITE being nationalists.

>>2353903
>Argumentum ad populum

Yeah, showing right now how smart and sophisticated you are, fampalan.

>>2353683
>Schopenhauer attributed civilizational primacy to the northern "white races" due to their sensitivity and creativity (except for the ancient Egyptians and Hindus whom he saw as equal):

>The highest civilization and culture, apart from the ancient Hindus and Egyptians, are found exclusively among the white races; and even with many dark peoples, the ruling caste or race is fairer in colour than the rest and has, therefore, evidently immigrated, for example, the Brahmans, the Incas, and the rulers of the South Sea Islands. All this is due to the fact that necessity is the mother of invention because those tribes that emigrated early to the north, and there gradually became white, had to develop all their intellectual powers and invent and perfect all the arts in their struggle with need, want and misery, which in their many forms were brought about by the climate. This they had to do in order to make up for the parsimony of nature and out of it all came their high civilization.[64]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer

>>2353914
Well, Schopenhauer dismantled a lotnof stuff as foolish or based on self piety and evaluation but he also once said that in practical life, a great philosophical intellect is as useful as a star-telescope in the opera.
We may know its bullshit but nationalism is useful bullshit so ridiculing it is bad.

>>2353945
It all boils down to the some form of utility for the masses. His essay on religion presents this form of argument and thought in a quite accurate light.

>>2353906
>>Taking pride into accomplishments of an entity that is not yourself is in stark contrast with any form of individuality
Maybe so, but that doesn't mean you also can't take pride in your own individual achievements whatever those may be.

>>and is absurd as it gets
This is blatantly hyperbolic.

>>It isn't about having individual thoughts and desires, but rather, identifying whether the pressure of their origin arises from within you, or the exterior idea, or an ideology of nationalism in this specific case.
It's probably a mix of the three in my opinion, but I would also state that disdain for the unfamiliar and alien goes all the way back to the cro-magnon era and nationalism is just the latest variant of tribalism to exist currently.

>>2353914
Neither nationalism nor any ideology that opposes nationalism makes you smart or dumb in and of themselves.

>>2353952
yeah, you can be smart as an individual but less so as a hive of individuals which need to coordinate themselves.

>>2353905
>>2353871
>>2353853
Thank you.

>>2353928
Nowhere in that quote it says that you should be proud of yourself for making part of the white people. Prove me wrong.

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你 必 汗 流 滿 面 才 得 糊 口 , 直 到 你 歸 了 土 , 因 為 你 是 從 土 而 出 的 。 你 本 是 塵 土 , 仍 要 歸 於 塵 土 。

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

>>2353978
It's more of a North vs South thing.

>>2353960
>Maybe so, but that doesn't mean you also can't take pride in your own individual achievements whatever those may be.

That is the entire point to be made here, the only form of pride which you can rationally harbor is that of an object which is a direct product of your effort or an achieved ambition. Your birth into a certain ethnic group by a roll of cosmic dice is NOT a part of your individual ambition and therefore achievement, thus it is irrational to place any value in the act in form of a pride.

>>2353978
You're right. In fact, I would argue, for schoppie you shouldn't even so much as be proud of being a member of the human species! Just showing that his views are more nuanced and not compatible with egalitarian and liberal world views.

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6 Ðừng cho chó những đồ thánh, và đừng quăng hột trai mình trước mặt heo, kẻo nó đạp dưới chơn, và quay lại cắn xé các ngươi.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Even if the deny it. People know deep inside this thread is the pure truth. I'm 100% certain.

>>2353996
>>irrational
So what? National pride is irrational and? People aren't robots and we are not all that rational on the whole. Furthermore, irrational is not something that is necessarily synonymous with bad.

>>2354054
I'm 100% certain that I'm your father. Prove me wrong.

National pride is not necessary for nationalism.

An emotional connection to the political entity itself is enough.

The same goes for ethnicity.

A parent loves his child more than other children and wants it to succeed over the other children, that does not mean he hates the other children, merely that he loves his child more.

Replace parent with citizen and child with country and there you go.

>>2354065
Dude, how can you philosophically justify being proud of another's man accomplishments. Imagine if 100% of earth were white. You're literally saying that you're proud that you exist.
>I have accomplished nothing in my life but at least I exist

>>2354059
>National pride is irrational and?

And it's primarily a trait of losers.

>>2354090
No, it's primarily a trait of average people who don't stand out one way or the other.

Also, insults and arguments are two different things.

>>2354090
>opinion, appeal to emotion
Wow, that's not very rational. Should I take that you're a loser? But we all know that already don't we?

>>2353845
If my nation spawned loads of geniuses that advanced mankind through history there's obviously something either in how the society specific of that nation that works or the genes of those people that are superior to other nations that didn't do jack shit.

In either way it means that nation did and keeps doing something better than others.

>>2354083
Philosophical justification means jack and shit in comparison to wanting to live in a country where most of the people look like you, speak the same language as you and mostly share the same values as you.

>>2354059
That is another point to be made here. The world and its society are fixated into a firm dual hierarchy consisting of leaders and followers.

There is not a greater suicide for the mind of a leader than to conform to the mindset of a follower out of a delusion and ignorance.

>>2353683
Exactly.
Which is why i hate /int/ bait threads the most.

>>2354115
Nationalism is the mindset of a follower now? I don't think so. I think it is more then possible to take pride in the nation in which you live and also be capable of a leadership role of some sort within that nation.

>>2354098
>No, it's primarily a trait of average people who don't stand out one way or the other.

Yeah, and Schopy considers the average person a loser.

>>2354100
>hurr durr, no u!!!!

Ouch, anon. Ouch.

>>2354131
>Irrational arguments are only bad when other people make them!
I win xd

>>2354126
Nationalism is a tool towards achieving an ambition in the hands and mind of a leader.

For a follower, it is a convenient delusion, a castle in the sky to take pride and solace within.

>>2354126
>Nationalism is the mindset of a follower now?

Absolutely, yes.

>>2353683
So then should I have no pride for my family? Seeing billions of people become parents, so mine are inherently worthless?

Also, every nation is going to be filled with people who have little to no pride, so why not give them pride in their nation. If it gives them something, even a little bit, then it will help them become more proactive citizens.

>>2354140

What's irrational about it? The quote in the OP makes sense to me. Are you just saying it offends you?

>>2354131
>>Yeah, and Schopy considers the average person a loser.
And why should I give a fuck about his opinion of the average person? He died alone and likely unhappy and aside from what were a few fuckbuddies he never seemed to have fallen in love, married and had children. He seems like he was a sad, miserable, and rather solitary man.

The average person during the time Schopenhauer was alive was probably less miserable then he was.

>>2354155
Schopenhauer was to smart to be happy.

>>2354141
>>Nationalism is a tool towards achieving an ambition in the hands and mind of a leader.
This is part of what nationalism is, it is not all that it is however and this is yet another area where I simply disagree with you and Schopenhauer.

>>2354151
>So then should I have no pride for my family?

Pride in your children is a little different because you raised them. But mostly, yeah, what your grandpa did is nothing to be proud of (or ashamed of).

>>2354155
>And why should I give a fuck about his opinion of the average person?

I guess because you're interested in philosophy? Seems like maybe it's not for you.

>>2354155
Happiness is definitely not a measure of a clear perspective of the reality of our existence and being.

If anything, a mind gravitating towards the highest attainable form of objectivity in perceiving reality, is a mind doomed to unhappiness and scorn, because reality itself is composed of cruel and dark shades of gray.

>>2354197
>>Happiness is definitely not a measure of a clear perspective of the reality of our existence and being.

>>If anything, a mind gravitating towards the highest attainable form of objectivity in perceiving reality, is a mind doomed to unhappiness and scorn, because reality itself is composed of cruel and dark shades of gray.
All this tells me is that absolute rationality and objectivity are undesirable. Which is just fine for me, because I am not completely or even mostly rational and objective and I am okay with that.

>>2354176
>one man's opinion stands for philosophy in general
Sure thing kiddo.

https://youtu.be/_J09aeeBVtk

>>2354214

Who are you quoting?

>>2354229
>>2354176

>>2354168
So should we not have holidays for key figures, like MLK Jr? Seeing many people fight for equality through out history, and many had a tougher fight then he did.

>>2354209
It depends upon the nature of your being which very much ties onto the aforementioned duality.

If your mind is not an inquisitive one in the pursuit of understanding, that is simply how the things are, perhaps for the best on your individual basis.

But it is an important realization to be drawn, that these very minds, ones in pursuit of some manner of understanding and coherence, always were and are fundamental aspects of intellectual giants who have led and influenced the world and human sociey towards both prosperity and doom, more-so the former than the latter, judging by the fact of our current state of affairs and the fact thay we still prevail as the species.

>>2354214
Just curious: Do philosophers that argue for nationalism say that people should unite for a common cause because that is in their best interest or that people should be proud automatically because they were born in a certain geographical area?

>>2354257
Nice try, I didn't write off rationality and the pursuit of knowledge as a whole, and I find it very hard to believe that Schopenhauer or those who sympathized with him had much to do with our present prosperity and lack of widespread death and destruction.

>>2354256
MLK is different because he fought for things similar to the things I believe in.

>>2354280
Maybe you should ask them.

>>2354291
And if I was to say my nation fought for and created things that I believe in?

Like the US Constitution for example.

>>2354286
If the sum of your arguments can be reduced down to "I don't believe in X because I simply don't", there truly isn't much point in having any further discussion with you.

So far, you have failed to support a single assertion and belief on your side via rationality you supposedly adhere to.

>>2354330
You haven't supported shit either pal, you especially haven't supported the idea that our present prosperity depends on people like Schopenhauer.

>>2354343
History is a testament to my claim. If you bothered to follow the chain of thought and the amount of influence which Schopenhauer's work exerted upon his intellectual successors, perhaps you'd possess some insight into that what I am talking about.

>>2354387
>>History is a testament to my claim.
No it isn't. Our modern prosperity has more to do with advancing technology, economic growth and nuclear deterrence then it does any amount of words from Schopenhauer.

>>2354403
On the topic of nationality, If you're American you went to the moon because of a German man. Einstein was also German.

>>2354420
>>2354403
Von Neumann was Hungarian

>>2354420
Yes and? Nationalism doesn't necessarily mean you can't recognize the contributions of people born in foreign lands to your own country. Furthermore, we would absolutely have gotten to the moon without Von Braun, we had a rocket program before he came over here and the Manhattan Project was the work of numerous scientists, Einstein was only one of them.

>>2354403
It is precisely so, because the modern scientific method based upon empiricism largely has its basis in continental philosophy, which was spearheaded by Schopenhauer and primarily - his successors.

Your inability to comprehend and grasp the greater picture only serves to show your intellectual laziness, unwillingness or an unfortunate mixture of both, to follow through the chain of progress.

>>2354426
> we had a rocket program before he came over here

A rocket program that was utter shit and had a record of a few miles of altitude while the V-2 were passing the Kármán line in 1944.

Do not kid yourself, without ze Germans, the USA would be a decade or two behind.

>>2354426
Of importance too is that the America nation created a society where such people as Von Braun and Einstein could be employed, and this was only possible due to years of scientific and wealth accumulation, itself made possible by commen values and goals shared by the people over a very long period of time. If Von Braun and Einstein somehow landed on Liberia, it obviously wouldn't be the same story. In short, nation, ethnicity, shared values matter a lot.

>>2354466
I'm not even American btw.

>>2354442
>>It is precisely so
Actually, it isn't as empirical thought cannot be traced to schopenhauer exclusively or even mostly, hell depending on how you define empiricism can be traced back to the renaissance or possibly earlier if you believe the people who claim that christian philosophers in the middle ages got people interested in something besides just listening to Aristotle.

>>Your inability to comprehend and grasp the greater picture
Alright that fucking does it. I comprehend the globalist position just fine fucknut, I also comprehend that said position is fundamentally opposed to my own interests and the interests of my countrymen. Globalist, anti-nationalist shitbags would happily see every nation on earth flooded with third world idiots who would in turn drag down every formerly advanced and prosperous nation until the entire fucking planet is one big global brazil.

Fuck that shit and fuck you too you goddamn piece of human garbage.

>>2354448
No shit the germans had a head start, but at the same time a decade behind just means you get to the moon 10 years later, and if Von Braun and his associates had died that doesn't mean our own scientists were somehow incapable of replicating their achievements.

>>2354474
Not that guy but I don't want to see your nation flooded I just want you to recognize that the greatness of your country was built by other great mean that are not you. Only after you have accomplished something you can claim greatness.

>>2354489
Taking pride in your nation or ethnic groups achievements doesn't necessarily mean that you think that you yourself are great though. It just means you recognize where you came from and want the place you came from to be preserved as much as possible.

Furthermore, and I know I'm repeating myself here, but most people will never be great or be remembered beyond their own immediate family and friends and with the gradual death of sincere religious belief, nationalism gives people meaning and purpose.

>>2354474
It isn't about pinpointing the origins of scientific method and empiricism, but realizing that the entire chain of progress is built upon the inherent human desire towards understanding and knowing.

One may be valid in dismissing a good portion of Schopenhauer's work, but if you were to bother exploring it in depth, you could easily discover fundamental truths pertaining to the human nature, most of which have found irrefutable basis in the modern science, specifically the field of psychology.

Dismissing Schopenhauer's influence within all this amounts to intellectual suicide which you express right at this very moment, easily recognizable and manifested via your expressed anger and disdain.

>>2353683
>Have you noticed some people from some fucked up slavic countries who think they're shit simply because they're white? It's embarrassing.
Why do you single out slavs? This is the case in every white country.

>>2354509
>nationalism gives people meaning and purpose.

Exactly. A place of solace and conformity supplanting ambition which is the tree of prosperity and achievement.

Nationalism is a toxic mentallity, an evil friend to an average man.

>>2354554
Depends how you play it.
Nationalism after you achieved wealth may lead to stagnant wewuzzing. Nationalism in times of danger may help a group to channel its ambitions into force as seen in the european spring of nations which violently made republicanism possible, fueled by nationalist zeal.

>>2354576
It still comes as a sacrifice on behalf of an individual. At the end of the day, nationalism is a self-serving ideology, sucking the life out of an independant individual who has no need for it whatsoever.

>>2354593
Sure, you need to sacrifiece some of that to develope agency against other people willing to do it. Also in the long run it may mold a heterogenous population into a homogenous one which makes high trust societies possible.
Stirners dream is an albanian clanscape of individualists and their extended families feuding.

>>2354593
Lol you're trying to scare children or something? Hilarious.

>>2354533
>the entire chain of progress
Schopenhauer's contribution to this is rather minuscule.

>>fundemental truths pertaining to human nature
And obviously and clearly discovered by a miserable individual who could never manage to establish a family.

>>modern science and the field of psychology in particular.
Psychology is deeply flawed still and basing any praise for Schrodinger's ideas in it is a mistake.

>>Dismissing Schrodinger's influence
I don't. I just plain don't agree with him on more then a few things, and I don't consider his ideas to be all that great in comparison to others, some of those others did take inspiration from him true enough, but I fail to see any reason to credit Schrodinger above say Einstein for example for general relativity.

First and foremost though, I disagree with him on nationalism and tribalism, I consider them to be fundamental parts of what it means to be human for both leader and follower alike and I consider anyone who dismisses them as mere tools to not only be wrong, but dangerously wrong.

>>2354604
I'd say it all boils down to some form of the renowned "Golden mean". An individual may and rather - must accept the part of nationalism which defines him, but it must not come at the absolute expense of individual's uniqueness and relinquishment of personal ambition and well-being.

>>2353683
Pride is perversion and sin. It is the biggest sin for the most lustful, dirty, depraved people; most of whom play in urine and feces.
Prideful people lack honor, courage, civility and decency.

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Eh, I like my country, and in several aspects I think it does better than other countries. It has it's problems, but that's normal. Nothing is perfect.

>>2353826

>>2354554
>>solace
Is hardly a bad thing

>>conformity
How good or bad this is depends on how much you conform and to what.

>>ambition is the tree of prosperity and achievement
Ambition is also responsible for tremendous amounts of suffering and destruction, don't pretend that being loyal only to oneself and those who share your globalist ideals doesn't also contain toxicity and evil.

>>2354621
Sure, we had fascism on the one side and SwedenYES individualism on the other.
Now where the mean lies is probably dependent on society, culture and times of pressure but stopping to think in absolutes when it comes to nationality/ethnic vs individual identity would be healthy for most western states atm.

>>2354614
You are still bent on fallaciously appealing to hipocrisy and ad hominem. As I have noted before, Schopenhauer's life and person hace no bearing on the extent and validity of his ideas.

Secondly, my entire point is that influence is prevalent and existent, and no matter how minuscule, proved a crucial cogwheel in the mechanism of our understanding of the world as is.

>>2354640
I absolutely agree.

>>2353853
Too bad bees were around alot longer than the koran. Dumb, desert fucks trying to claim these rediculous things

By the way, all Abrahamic religions are dumb, desert fucks!

>>2354656
>>You are still bent on fallaciously appealing to hipocrisy and ad hominem.
I call them as I see them, and someone who died with neither wife nor children has no business being referred to as having a deep understanding of human nature. If he did, he would have understood that women weren't nearly as bad or incapable as he thought they were and I say that as someone who has little to no patience for modern feminism.

>>Schopenhauer's life and person hace no bearing on the extent and validity of his ideas.
Except the life you lead has a major effect upon the ideas about life that you hold.


>>Secondly, my entire point is that influence is prevalent and existent, and no matter how minuscule, proved a crucial cogwheel in the mechanism of our understanding of the world as is.
I don't consider him to be crucial frankly and someone with a less miserable and self-serving view of life could have made the same contributions.

>>2353683

So you're telling me a German is against the Jewish ethnostate?

Well I be darned...

>>2353871
Nobody here believe that shit. Flowers are beautiful, but if Muslims were scientific about it,they would hate flowers.

Flowers are vaginas! Beautiful fertile vaginas, basking in the virtues of reproduction with multiple partners. Flowers are the whores of the plant kingdom. Not just that but they are asexual whores. They literally impregnate each other.

FLOWERS ARE BEAUTIFUL ASEXUAL VAGINAL WHORES,!

>>2353734

Yeah, I guess I can understand that.

>>2354687
I see that you are still persistent in being a hopeless case. I suppose it can't be helped.

The very fact that Schopenhauer abstained from majority of primal, basic human impulses, attests to the fact that he was possessing of a more objective perspective when it comes to human nature.

>>2354719
>>The very fact that Schopenhauer abstained from majority of primal, basic human impulses,
Yeah, primal basic impulses like having family and friends. But hey, /r9k/ the philosopher is all so wise and sophisticated and shit.

Oh wait, he actually isn't.

>>he was possessing a more objective perspective
Or again, maybe he was just a miserable sad sack who needed to get the fuck over himself?

>>2353683
what are the differences between nationalism and ethnocentrism?

>>2353832
You're agreeing with him

>>2353683

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER CONFLATED NATIONALISM WITH PATRIOTISM; HE MEANT "PATRIOTIC PRIDE", NOT "NATIONAL PRIDE" —OR MAYBE THE TRANSLATION IS ERRONEOUS, OR INTENTIONALLY PERVERTED.

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Truly, there is no worse scum on the earth than breeders.

>>2353928
Isn't this the same argument as presented in guns germs and steel?

>>2356535
well, his musings sound like whiny lil faggy poetry written by depressed 16 year old emo kid.

if he was alive today, undoubtledly he would dress like a gay retarded vampire with those big holes in his ears and weird metal shit all over his face. Probobly listen to greenday, bitch about his "parental units", and write long annoying rants on why women are trash oh nis social media blog of choice

>>2354593
This is a good thing. Rampant and uncontrolled individualism is a cancerous thing for any society.

>>2353683
I love how you leftist SJWs say this, but then praise black supremacists

>>2354103
So there is value in respecting the society for what it is, not being proud of it.

Unless your contributions made it so.

>>2357211
I love how you make up shitty strawmen.

False sense of accomplishment is a hallmark of a low breed of people.

>>2357401
Leftypol literally worships black supremacy

>>2357502
I don't think you understand how argumentation works.

>>2357521
I don't think you can come to terms with the fact that your SJW hugbox worships black supremacists

>>2357531
>>2357502
>>2357211
What's the purpose of this string of nonsequiturs?

>>2356460
>>2356460
I was actually arguing with the guy who quoted him.

>>Accomplish something in your life and then be proud of it.
This part specifically. Most people are simply incapable of accomplishing anything of note in their lives and condemning them for taking comfort in national pride is both cruel and stupid as national pride is something that everybody needs especially right now in this era of unchecked globalism.

>>2357533
Pointing out hypocrisy.

They allege that OP, faggot that he is, sees nothing intrinsically wrong with national or ethnic pride; rather he encourages Whites to have a lack of it due to his own self hatred so he can put Whites down. Meanwhile, he encourages Blacks to have national/ethnic pride so as to puff them up so they too will put Whites down.

>>2357591
>Most people are simply incapable of accomplishing anything of note in their lives and condemning them for taking comfort in national pride is both cruel and stupid

Yes, and this is the trash that needs to go. Globalism will make it happen.

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>>2357773

>>2357773
Yeah no, you're the trash that needs to be taken out. The nation states of the world will destroy the multinational parasites and restore a world where economic efficiency is no longer worshiped as a single sacred value above everything else.

>>2357789
It's already set in unstoppable motion. You're all too late to prevent it. Remember that it was not the devil that imposed the degeneracy upon the western populace. They have made a choice to accept it, all by themselves.

>>2357814
>>unstoppable motion
Fat chance faggot, Trump got elected for a reason and the days of endless unfettered "free trade" are coming to an end.

>>2357833
>He thinks without irony that Trump isn't a part of the plan

You aren't older than 17, are you, you dumb, dumb goy?

>>2357840
I'm significantly older then that and Trump isn't the only signal of what's coming. Your days are numbered, so enjoy your party while it lasts fucker.

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>>2353683
Humans are extremely social and tribal by nature, so they identify with the properties of their group and take pride in its achievements, whether they directly contributed or not. Not understanding this doesn't make you superior, it hints at you being an autist or some other kind of obstinate idiot.

Schopenhauer was a bitter edgelord and predated most scientific discoveries, unlike you.

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>when humanity began, an indivual's tribe was a pack of thirty other individuals, and tribes now consist of more people than you will ever see in your lifetime
>the idea that the definition of one's tribe will expand further is simply ludicrous!
Ah. If you think 4 or even 8 years of Trump will have any bearing on the constant universalisation of mankind you're either stupid or deluded, like all the men who previously thought they were standing on the line that would never move again.

>>2357935
Understanding the evolutionary purpose of this primordial sense of belonging which aided people in functioning as cohesive groups does not change that what is described here is not a thing of reason. It is something subconscious, that does not require you to give it a bit of thought, you either feel it or you don't. And arguably most people do - whether in the form of nationalism, or perhaps in the form of taking pride in the achievements of the local football club, or maybe in achievements of family members. However, you are free detest the feeling, dismissing it as unreasonable, while feeling it all the same.

Rationalising that there is a beneficial side to it does not invalidate Schopenhauer's criticism. In fact, this duality of the primordial will and the rational mind that are quite often at odds, is a core element of Schopenhauer's philosophy.

>>2358964
Yeah, you can rationalize hating everything. Doesn't mean it's the healthy or even wise thing to do.

>>2357935
The "gut feeling" argument doesn't work that well in a civilized world, jamal

>>2353683
Countries don't having enough national pride often disappear from face of the Earth.

>>2358708
There's a bit of a difference between people being organized into nation states and casual acceptance of the entire planet being turned into a massive brazil like shithole. The latter thing will not be tolerated and the process is being interrupted as we speak.

>>2358978
Feelings are the most important thing. They're the reason for everything we have and give us purpose and fulfillment. Nothing else can accomplish that. Some people, like Schopenhauer, focus on bitterness and hatred. But I don't think that's a path that leads to happiness and a good world.

>>2358977
>you can rationalize hating everything
No, in order to rationalise you need to motivate it reasonable. Schopenhauer does so. If you disagree with him, provide good arguments rather than insulting the man.

>>2359002
I'm too tired to take his nonsense apart. It's just more verbose /r9k/.

>>2358998
You'd be surprised how close you are to Schopenhauer's philosophy. Schopenhauer too regarded man an unreasonable creature mostly guided by instinct, feelings and emotions. That's also what was one of his primary sources of despair.

>>2359007
If you're unwilling (or unable) to argue I don't know what you're doing in here.

>>2358708
>falling prey to the idea that past events are any indicator of future trends

lol

>>2359017
The posts you replies to were meaningful.

>>2359018
As opposed to believe things will play out differently this time because you really really want them to? Tough luck

>>2359008
He strikes me as a man who looks at a flower and sees a weak, gaudy thing filled with unpleasantly sticky fluid though.
He should have taken MDMA or something. Everything has lovely components, and it's up to you whether you react with despair, disgust and hatred, or with amusement, love and interest.

>>2359051
Schopenhauer enjoyed quite a few things. Music most of all.

But all that is besides the point because it doesn't affect his philosophy, which is actually quite humanist. Schopenhauer was a guy who looked at the world very clearly and despaired over what he saw. But his mean-spirited commentary should not make us dismiss his analyses which are very often spot-on.

>>2359077
>his analyses which are very often spot-on.
it's only spot-on when you're leeching welfare in European countries

>>2359185
How so?

There is no logical reason to value individual pride over pride of association, as the exact same destructive arguments used to justify alienating an individual from his people can be made to alienate an individual from himself.

Why should you be proud of "your" accomplishments?
Just because "you" did them, well who are "you" exactly? Obviously you're changed by you experiences, so how can you argue that you are the same person who in the past accomplished great things? Why should a fat alcoholic slob be proud of the fact that he once was the star quarterback? Why should a syphilitic junkie be proud of the fact he was once a great poet? In short what have you done TODAY, or more importantly this very instant that you deserve to have pride?

Furthermore aren't your actions simply a product of who you are? If it's irrational to be proud of being born somewhere, why should it be any less irrational to be proud of being born someway? It was not some great act of personal ambition or achievement that caused you to be born the way you were but a cosmic roll of the dice. So with that in mind don't all your personal "achievements" become hollow, after all how could you be anything other than what you were born as? It's no great achievement for a fish to be a fish, or a horse to be a horse, so why then should a strong man be proud of being strong or a wise man be proud of being wise. They did not carve these attributes out of the aether, they are manifestations of the traits that they were born with.

So who then deserves to be proud? Clearly no one. I hope by now it's clear just how ludicrous and self destructive this line of thought is. Clearly this line of philosophical reasoning has less to do with logic, than it does a strong sense of unresolved self-loathing that causes a defective mind to tear down everything around it.

>>2359041
The only one relying on the hope that things turn out the way he really wants is you friendo! You're the one attempting to construct some grand arrow of time historical narrative with an inevitable destination, not me.

>>2359202

Why do you need pride?

>>2359197
because no other countries gives away welfare like Europeans do

>>2359335
That might as well be the case, but you didn't explain how this relates to Schopenhauer's views.

>>2359280
Why do you need life?

>>2359202
This is a rather nihilistic point of view though. Obviously you can question the intrinsic value of anything but if we agree on the premise that one can be proud of something most people would argue that it is more "natural" to feel pride in something one has achieved through ones own ability rather than something that was achieved by other, in the case of the nation, completely unrelated, people.

In the end, I don't see this as a proper refutation of Schopenhauer's argument which says that it's quite silly to take too much pride in something that is for the most part completely unrelated to oneself - let alone engage in heated arguments upon being offended in ones national pride.

>>2359360
I argue that Schopenhauer's argument is inherently nihilistic as well, but since it's inherent nihilism is not taken to it's logical conclusion it gives the illusion of being otherwise.

>I don't see this as a proper refutation of Schopenhauer's argument which says that it's quite silly to take too much pride in something that is for the most part completely unrelated to oneself
>for the most part completely unrelated to oneself
A faulty premise that can only be supported logically if we inconsistently apply nihilistic arguments in order to artificially separate the individual identity from that of the group, then arbitrarily drop these nihilistic arguments before they can be taken to their logical conclusions.

>>2359478
>faulty premise that can only be supported logically if we inconsistently apply nihilistic arguments in order to artificially separate the individual identity from that of the group
It is not a faulty premise at all. While one could argue that ones own presence in the nation contributes somehow to the greater everything and thus beneficially affected the mind of a great scientist of ones own nation, who then later emigrated, settled in a different country, made an amazing discovery which then provides motivation for one to feel pride in this achievement by the proxy of shared nationality, it is without doubt an extremely minor contribution. A contribution shared with many millions of other people who also happen to share that nationality and thus nothing to take extraordinary pride in.

In fact, this is exactly what Schopenhauer's argument is about. He does not separate the individual from the group, he argues that the individual is one among millions and thus shouldn't feel overly proud of something he had no deliberate, active part in achieving but rather take pride in the achievements one directly achieved on ones own.

And if we both agree that people can take pride in their achievements (without asking 'why take pride in achievements at all' - which is the nihilistic scepticism of intrinsic value), then Schopenhauer's argument makes perfect sense.

>>2353683
What if I have qualities on my own, is proud the things I did and of what I made with my life and I happen to live in a first world country with a long and glorious history and a significant role to play in the advancement of mankind in the past and in the present?

Maybe if you decided to quote someone who believe truth is more important than rhetoric, it would have been harder to debunk.

>>2353784
mongols

>>2353683
>>2358263

>>2353683
>for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own
This does logically follow...
Its a nice inductive fallacy though.
It comes from the same place as "My dad is better than your dad." or someone taking pride in their kids. It's not a point of vanity but rather a point of relishing something else beyond yourself. Of course Schopy wouldn't have a clue what this was like (sry not sry shouldn't have offended my nation).
>>2353784
Slaves
>>2353829
>>2353821
>>2353826
Yeah.
>>2353892
Schope was the first real autist, and I mean on every level imaginable.
>>2353712
>You didn't choose it and it's nothing to be proud of.
Why?
What is pride but a joy or revelry in something, pride in the self is vanity, pride in other things is joy. Why do you deny joy being had? Do you hate happiness, contentment, are you depressed, are you a nigger?
>>2353720
But no one says "I am superior." that is vanity, they say "We are superior." Hitler did not say "Nordics are superior because I am one of them." He said "I am superior because I am Nordic."
>>2353845
>The point is your nationality is not a positive trait.
Opinion discarded. I can see a Brazilian being ashamed of being Brazilian. But an American being ashamed of being an American, he is almost then not an American. Yes, the point is if one sees nationality as a positive trait have they then a right to take pride in it? To revel in its success and greatness? When one works for something of their own volition, do they revel in themselves as vain beings or do they appreciate the thing itself or the team which has accomplished it with them?
Is not victory all the sweeter when it is shared with others?
>>2357383
>Unless your contributions made it so.
Why is vanity so central to you? You must live a very poor life if you think your world just your world is the world that matters.
>>2353683
Those who take pride in others work better with others, work togthr mean more success, genes are passed on.

>>2359202
You present solely one side of the coin, a single argument heavily based upon and rooted in biological determinism. It all shatters apart when you incorporate the possibility, that the man's potential and the inherent value of his possessed traits can be manifested via personal choice.

Secondly, I will agree with a poster before me who has described your viewpoint as heavily skeptical and nihilistic one, which is not necessarily an invalid one, but the phenomenon to be considered is, that human's very existence is veiled with some manner of irrationality, our living on in spite of inevitability of death and complete ceasing of our consciousness and being acting a prime example of it.

A man's whole life is a sum of building up the temporary legacy which is inevitably eroded by the powers of time and entropy. From this standpoint, pride itself loses all meaning, but so does living/existing itself, which is a philosophical dead end, a trap for the mind disguised as complete nihilism.

>>2353832
>i'm not saying he's right, but he's right

>>2354474

Brazil is one the top ten economies in the world retard.

Thats how we know you're an ignorant fuck.

National pride is a joke, and I say this as a nationalist. The USA is only top dog because it had absolutely no scruples (slavery, genocide, etc.), no competition up to its par on the same continent, way too many resources for its own good, and its possible competition elsewhere kept blowing itself up. Its culture is shite, and it has fucking retarded politics even for an Anglo FPTP country. Yet I'm still an American nationalist because I think ideas of universal rights are jokes and the idea America should be looking out for anyone's interests other than its own is insane.