Ok, serious question. Putting all the "WEWUZ" memes

>>2351478
They weren't black. They were like brazil in terms of demographics

They were definitely somewhat dark skinned (imagine middle-eastern), but there was a series of Nubian pharaohs that were probably black as in African.

>>2351478
They were East Africans and West Asian/Levantine peoples with some nilo-saharan roots and slight nilotic influence

The DNA studies use Yoruba as their African sample which is frustrating because African genetic diversity does not just reflect West Africans. It creates a very narrow concept the translates to "pulling" away from Africa and into Eurasia.

I also want to add the Egyptians are not and have never been stable, mass waves have in fact come in from the predynastic onwards

>>2351478
The native locals no,but people residing within their kingdom included some people who were black. It was a mixed and multicultural civilization.

>>2351478
The nubians were black, absorbed eqyptian culture, and even conquered Eqypt for a dynasty or two. While they were necessarily as dark as the other sub-saharan africans, they would be considered black by today's standards. The eqyptians on the other hand look like they do now.

>>2351482

So lots of brown and black but whites in charge?

Ramses really was Aryan huh?

>is there any evidence that supports the claim of ancient egyptians being black?

Lmao, what do you think honestly? Any black "civilization" ever was because middle eastern/whites made contact with them. Ebin racism aside, this is a pure fact. Blacks have never made anything by themselves.

File: race1.jpg (28KB, 416x145px) Image search: [Google]

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Some Egyptians were black, some were not, some were mixed, some were semites, some were pale white fucks.

Christ, the Egyptians themselves made it clear as day for us.

>>2351522
This is kinda true, even Mali and other black states only became so through Arab+Muslim influence.

>>2351523
Semitic isn't a race and the representations are not to be taken literal. It's symbolic with some truths.

Not really. Egypt is in Africa, sure. But North Africa is an entirely different beast from the rest of the continent.

>>2351546
That's not entirely true.

>>2351522
>was because middle eastern/whites made contact with them. Ebin racism aside, this is a pure fact. Blacks have never made anything by themselves.

you could say the exact same thing about europeans making contact with middle easterners.

>>2351556
Yes it is.

>>2351557
The fertile crescent is the cradle of civilization, correct.

>>2351557
Not really, Europeans were up to something prior to contact, can't say the same for blacks.

>>2351572
>Europeans were up to something prior to contact
I know modern Europeans are descended from Pale skinned, brown eyed natives who mated with olive skinned, blue eyed Anatolians. Is it the pale skinned, browned eyed people you're referring to?

>>2351478
They were ruled by a period of Nubian kings

>>2351559
No it's not, the history of North Africa is complex especially with the data we have now. It's gone through many pulses and complex demographic layerings that's obvious to anyone who has done more that first two page Google searched the topic.

>>2351607
>says its complex but gives no proof
What did he mean by this?

>>2351478
Ancient Egyptians weren't black. They looked Arab.
There was a time where black Pharaos ruled. They had black statues and came from Sudan I believe, but were soon overthrown by the actual Egyptian ruling class ne viped from Historie. From then on black people were treated a slaves

>>2351557
> you could say the exact same thing about europeans making contact with middle easterners.

Nope, had civilizations at the same time;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization


There are also others like these;

Oldest proto writing on the planet, 3000 years before Sumer, in the fucking Balkans;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_symbols

>>2351478
Pre-Dynastic Upper Egyptians (the foundation of Egyptian culture) were black, so that makes Egypt a black civilization. Unless you believe the Dynastic Race theory (Mesoptamians conquered these people and created Dynastic Egypt)

Lower Egyptians (who are indeed more North African/Semitic) got their culture, language, pretty much everything from the black people, so whatever.

In summation: Racists BTFO

>>2351620
Also some believe that the pharaoes were actually of European decendence (?) so just like in Persia the ruling class were Arian, while the populous was Arab.

>>2351607
Yes, it is complex. And it is complex in such away that it seperates itself from the rest of Africa.

>>2351620
Arab isn't a race and they themselves are part of multilayered migrations and intermixing
>>2351618
How do you not know about the subpluvial periods that have shaped the demographics of the Sahara for all of Homo spp. Throughout time?

Why does that even need to be mentioned unless you're that damn clueless?

>>2351639
By what? Isolation was never a constant of Human existence anywhere in Africa.

>>2351631
minoans learned everything from contact with eqypt and the levant you idiot.

>>2351654
Except Blacks barely travel outside their jungle .

>>2351655
>minoans learned everything from contact with eqypt and the levant you idiot.
Wrong. Some was entirely innovative, like everything else.

>>2351632
>upper eqyptians were black

KEK

>>2351658
Equatorial rainforest habitation didn't occur until about about 3kya in Africa

>>2351655
The Minoans already had a functional civilization 1000 years before the Pyramids were build you imbecile.

Their Linear A script is also not based on Middle Eastern or Egyptian writing.

Uneducated cumstain.

>>2351638

The population of Persia was not Arab lol.

>>2351654
There was plenty of European influence in North Africa that didn't manifest itself until much later in history.

>>2351665
minoans were in contact with both Mesopotamia and Egypt for there entire civilized existence. Once you come in contact with another society you are forever changed. And stop moving the goalposts, I never said they didn't innovate. I said they didn't have any "civilization" until contact with the middle east.

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>>2351670
Studies show their skull shape clusters with Sudanese people and modern Horn Africans. Their limb proportions were tropically adapted (Meds/Semites are not)

Whiteys eternally BTFO. You will never recover from this. Listen to this wise French man

>>2351684
*manifest itself elsewhere I mean.

>>2351685
> I said they didn't have any "civilization" until contact with the middle east.

Which is false, as they predate most of them.

>>2351556
yes this statement is factual, Egypt is closer to Europe an Asia than west Africa. Also the Sahara desert for thousands of years shielded that region from mass migrations and invasions from that part of Africa

>>2351686
>Egyptians
>sciences
>Speech

kek

They made large monuments, whopty do.

>>2351676
>Linear A script

you're bragging about fucking pictograms LOL, even africans had that you dumbass.

>The Minoans already had a functional civilization 1000 years before the Pyramids

Minoans did not have a functional civilization prior to 3500 BC you fucking idiot. Unless you're lowering the standards of civilization now.

>>2351730
Yeah, still predate the Pyramids though and Linear A had no connection to the middle east or Egypt.

File: IMG_1224.jpg (86KB, 435x331px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2351478
No. Black Africans are south of there Sudan and are irrelevant to the development of the bi-continental Egyptian civilization.

Pic related. It's a lybian, Nubian, Syrian and Egyptian. The only black one is the Nubian.

>>2351714
The Sahara is only about 3-4kya old and Egypt is closest and is a part of Northeast Africa.

There are also recordings of unchecked migrations in the pharonic period
>>2351684
The degree of European influences? By what gauges? Surely the Greco-roman world influenced Sudan and Garamantia, Southeast Africa has influence as well as the inland Western Africa by way of Romans.

This of course doesn't even talk about the dissemination of camel and the formations of camel carivans disseminating information and innovation from all directions.

It's also extremely short sided to see what? 2kya as the template for all of a regions history. That's telling of ignorance.

>>2351744
Except this is representational and speaks of only one of many populations within the realm of Nubia.

File: 1455145888559.gif (2MB, 380x285px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2351703
>Knossos predates Sumer

>>2351753
Someone is butthurt that his ancestors werent wewuz and is clinging to straws :0

>>2351753
It shows how they viewed themselves, which is more relevant than anything. They didn't consider themselves Black regardless of the short lived Nubian dynasty.

>>2351760
>Knossos
The first settlement dates to about 7000 BC.

>>2351760
>most of them
>most
>of them
Not all

>>2351764
I'm Beta Israeli and share more roots with Egypt and Nubia than any Arab or European

>>2351769
So your entire race revolves around wewuzing and you want us to take you seriously?

>>2351765
Notions of blackness are ephemeral and actually quite rare. Blackness was a phenotype of individual level, concepts of collective blackness is more often then not put on a group by others.

Even in the Tut relief of him in a chariot half the Nubians are of the same profile and color, nilotic are a subset of many under Nubian control.

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>>2351769
>Beta Israeli
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

> share more roots with Egypt and Nubia than any Arab or European

HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2351773
The Egyptian pharonic and predynastic era is directly related to the Aqualithic eras that have occurred throughout North Africa for tens of thousands of years

The fact you think the Sahara is truly ancient and some insurmountable barrier shows your ignorance

>>2351780
The foundations of Judaism in Ethiopia lies within mixed refugees of the colony of Elephantine on the borders of Egypt and Nubia.

Nice try though.

>>2351785

> Trying this hard and caring this much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeEEWXbLNQs

>>2351478
The Holy Bible says it was. That's good enough for me. It was the land of Ham (the black man)

>>2351736
ah so Eqypt isn't a civilization until they created the fucking pyramids while a bunch of island dwelling autists formed civilization by just existing.

>Linear A had no connection to the middle east or Egypt.

you're still bragging about pictograms which can't even be deciphered yet. Like I said, even africans had that shit.

>>2351801
>ham
>black
Only his son cannan was marked.

>>2351802
>even africans had that shit.
Which Black Africans, at this time, had something as complex as the Linear A tablet?

>>2351802
That is not the argument though, it was about the idiotic notion of Minoans learning stuff from ME and Egypt in the 3000BC period, which is false.

>>2351805
That mark = black has no basis in the Bible. All the sons of Ham were black

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No. At most you had a dynasty or two of Nubians. And even then, it wasn't black as in sub Saharan Africa, but closer to Ethiopia and other places in northern Africa.

The people claiming they were like modern blacks or Aryan are hilarious. These fags are trying to wewuz harder than the other and claim the accomplishments of other people because both of them sit in mommy's basement jerking off over how they were kings.

Ramses the Great has been proven to be a fucking ginger lol

>>2351791
I'm sorry you're from a society that received their technologies and innovations that resulted in the deaths of pre-ino European society. But for those of us with roots much deeper I have to say, honestly I don't care if you call me a Kang. I'd rather be with some African American and tell them about their own history that deal with some memer

>>2351632
>Pre-Dynastic Upper Egyptians (the foundation of Egyptian culture) were black, so that makes Egypt a black civilization.

do you actually believe this? is America a Native American civilization?

>>2351822
That comes from Lime. My grandmother did that until she turned 50.

>>2351817
>using biblical genology to interprete ethnogenesis
I'm Catholic and even I don't do that. Ham, Shem and Japheth are meaningless terms when deciding race,

>>2351810
Nsibidi

>>2351825
> But for those of us with roots much deeper

Kek

> I'd rather be with some African American and tell them about their own history

Its not their fucking history even if they were black.

They are from the western coast of Africa, as much to do with Egypt as Armenians with the Irish.

>>2351829
No, they proved it with hair analysis, it was not just paint, he was naturally ginger.

>>2351841
I'm not that anon but there are bits and pieces of worthwhile stuff that can be utilized if contextualized with the archeological record.

>>2351854
I am not anon,
,
No.

>>2351815
Minoans didn't have shit in the 3000BC period. And they already had contact with Levant when they eventually did. Just like Eqypt learned most their shit from Mesopotamia, so did the Minoans.

>>2351852
No, it showed that it was not henna. It did not show he was "naturally" anything, Lime strips melanin from hair creating shocking reds and blonds. Unless a DNA test is done confirming he has the genes for red hair I'm going to contextualize the results for known beautification methods founded within the region.
>>2351848
They do have older roots that align with and share basis with the rest of Africa. They are a people of Central Northern Africa, id rather speak with them than someone who doesn't seem to know much about Africa and it's people in general

Lol eat a egg

>>2351866

"Microscopic inspection of the roots of Ramesses II's hair proved that the king's hair was originally red, which suggests that he came from a family of redheads." - Bob Brier, Egyptian Mummies: Unravelling the Secrets of an Ancient Art, New York: William Morrow & Co. Inc, 1994, p. 153.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2351862
Disagree, here's an example.

The Torah in the book of Bəmiḏbar mentions Keturah/tzipporah as Kushim. That is as an ethio-somali, whose father was a midianite priest.

When you contextualize the time period, the migration of Semitic Speakers from the Levant into Arabia Felix and the archeological record of pre-semitic and early semitic Arabian society you'll see the union of Moses and Tzipporah goes along the adoption of Yahweh into Shasu/Hebrew pantheon as well as the formation of Semitic-cushitic nations in the land supposedly explored by Moses.
>>2351878
No, it shows that their was a stripping of melanin using Lime paste. It's not a dye, it's a chemical process that a microscope would not differentiate with naturally red hair.

"in ancient Egypt people with red hair were associated with the god Seth" - Brier, Egyptian Mummies (1994), pp. 200-201.

Worshiping fucking gingers.

BTFO'd from the start.

>>2351887

> MICROSCOPIC INSPECTION OF THE ROOTS

> ORIGINALLY RED

> CAME FROM A FAMILY OF REDHEADS

>>2351887
Nah, it is all just fairy tales and bullshit written down after centuries of editing and hearsay.

>>2351892
Lime paste preparation can and was until the mid twentieth century align with beautification that would have also been a part of funerary professes.

Having seen my own grandmother having it down it looks exactly like a "natural" redhead.

Only silly celtists and nordicists without any claim to Northeast Africa and no real knowledge pushes this.

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>butthurt nigger and stormcuck both trying to claim Egyptian civilization

This is great. What a time to be alive.

>>2351896
*Tips Fedora*

>>2351898
I never get this sort of imagery. It seems to insinuate that most Americans percieved on the most dedicated racist whites to be on par with black american people.

>>2351897
What part of the analysis not even having anything to do with hair do you not understand lol?

What part of the study stating that his red hair was genetic do you not understand?

>>2351572
Like what? Starting rocks in England?

>ginger
>nigger

>same letters

It all makes sense. He was both. Now can you two stop jerking off over Ramses? He wasn't black and he wasn't white. So stop having your gay slapfight over a civilization neither of you two clowns have any connection to and had no part in building. Jesus fucking Christ.

>>2351905
You got that from Wikipedia from a 1994 unknown study utilizing dubious methods.

The use of lime and henna are standard in mummification practices, I suggest you use a source you've actually read rather than one given to you that you've never read yourself and go from there

>>2351924
> ou got that from Wikipedia from a 1994 unknown study utilizing dubious methods.

Debunk it then afrocentrist.

> The use of lime and henna

What are you, a fucking parrot?

We already went over this a couple times, it was not the hairs that were analyzed.

>>2351906
More than you can say for the negro.

>>2351572
Weren't they farming and smelting iron before contact?

>>2351746
Gyptoids confirmed Negroids

File: egyptians.jpg (25KB, 318x289px)

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Egyptians identified themselves by language and culture not race. With that being said they were probably were neither white nor black.

>>2351968
Dude, by that time, even Papua New Guinea had farming.

...and iron wasn't smelted by anyone at the time you imbecile.

>>2351996
I smelted your mom's iron in 400 B.C.

>>2351996
>Iron smelting facilities in Niger and Nigeria have been radiocarbon dated to 500 to 1000 BC.[23]
>By 400 BCE, contact had been made with the Mediterranean civilisations, including that of Carthage, and a regular trade in gold being conducted with the Sahara Berbers, as noted by Herodotus.

>>2352017

lol;

> 1300 BC in the Middle East
> 1300 BC in India
> 1100 BC in Europe

Only the Asians were left with 600 BC.

>>2351928
You can't even bring up the study and the details of the study yet you use it as a source. The onus is on you anon.
>>2351972
West Africans are Aqualithic descendants as well, it's clear the basis of Niger-Congo is in Saharan Agricultural development with dessication.

>>2352148
I cited an actual source and a direct quote from it.
It is up to you to debunk it.

>>2352179
You did not provide a link to the page nor the study and methodology of the study.

You posted a book and a sentence proported to be in the book and that's it.

Show me the study and talk about how they study's methodology influenced your decision on see this as fact.

>>2352200
> You did not provide a link to the page nor the study and methodology of the study.

That is not required in citations lol.

> Show me the study and talk about how they study's methodology influenced your decision on see this as fact.

That is for you to do if you claim that the study is false and you desire to disprove it.

>>2352211
For all we know that "source" was made up. So unless you can show the study I'm going to have to say your statement that this study said one thing or another holds no water what so ever.

The book is easily googleable.

Also, Ramseses had straight wavy hair;

http://i.imgur.com/Dh56RXM.jpg

>>2352245
Give me the study itself. Not just the book that references this supposed study.

Secondly wavy hair doesn't mean much. Somali have wavy have often.

>>2352256
> Give me the study itself.

I gave you the citation, find the rest of the info by yourself, it will take you an hour at most.

> Secondly wavy hair doesn't mean much.

It does though.

> Somali have wavy have often.

Firstly, Somali? Egypt? kek

Secondly, most Somalis do not have such hair.

The wewuz is strong with you.

A powerful kang you shall become.

>>2351717
They had mathematics, poetry, great art and architcture, advanced medicine( for the time)

>>2351767
The first settlement was like 3 huts you dumb fuck, the city itself is from like 2000 bc

>>2351968
Iron was brought to Southern Europe by Cypriot traders around 1300 bc, and 1700 b if we include Greece in Europe, but they still used bronze for msot thigns untill the iron age

They looked exactly the same as modern Egyptians

You don't replace a settled, stable population of 10 million people with an invasion where most soldiers aren't going to stick around anyway.

The idea that ancient Egyptians were any different (genetically) from Ancient Egyptians is just projection from Americans who think that everything must've worked like the colonisation of the Americas.

>>2351478
WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT COLOR THEIR SKIN WAS?

>>2352245
That is not the skull of a Black man. It's clear.

>>2352875
everyone with a heart and a brain.

>>2352003
Hearty jej

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>>2351482
That ain't right either, the "Egypt was mixed" is just as big a myth as "WE WUZ"

"We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well."

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330360603/abstract;jsessionid=4F50C426C2E545AF48BCA2A1D2E8EC37.f04t02

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1216069/

If you're going to claim ancient Egyptians were "mixed", then it stands to reason that they would be even more "mixed" now, but that is not the case, modern Egyptians are pretty homogeneous, 95% of their whole genetic pool comes from only two regions (North Africa and the Levant)

>>2353260
And that was the New Kingdom. About 300 dynasties to sort through. Then there's Old Kingdom during the building of the Pyramids. No DNA from there.

>>2352872
Exactly this. Whole peoples don't just get replaced, it doesn't work like that. I have seen people thinking the same thing in regards to the Anglo-Saxon migration to Britain. No, the Britons were not in fact genocided, they just adopted a new language.

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>>2351482
Explain this, and this link below
http://www.eutimes.net/2010/06/king-tuts-dna-is-western-european/

Go ahead, waiting for someone with an IQ in the double digits to call me a euro-centrist.

>>2352256
Somalis aren't blonde though.

>>2355762
Not going to call you a euro-centrist, just an idiot.

And the story you linked is based on "some guy catching a glimpse of a chart on a computer screen during a documentary", i.e. media sensationalism

see actual scientific papers >>2353517

>>2355790
>implying there's anything wrong with being Eurocentric instead of Afrocentric or Asiancentric
>implying you can be unbiased.

>>2351478
There were in fact blacks in ancient Egypt. They weren't all black, though. Niggers and /pol/ are both wrong.

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>>2355790
Also, in case you didn't know, those mummies' "blonde" hair is henna, not their natural hair color, and they are usually red or orange, not yellow.

>>2355804
>There were in fact blacks in ancient Egypt.
Those are called Nubians, they exist to this day in southern Egypt, not worth mentioning, because they didn't contribute anything (they don't even a written language, to this day), beyond being hired foot soldiers and archers in the Egyptian military, as well as others', including Persia.

>>2355798
>implying there's anything wrong with being Eurocentric instead of Afrocentric or Asiancentric
Eurocentrism is nothing like Afrocentrism, and what you're doing is not "Eurocentrism", just "WEWUZ the stormfag edition". kys

>implying you can be unbiased.
You can at least try, and that is what peer-reviews are for.

>>2355808
Black people usually don't have orange/red hair..... kind of a "Whites only" thing my man

>>2355857
>Black people usually don't have orange/red hair
I said "henna", and never said they were black.

>>2355863
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/new-research-shows-some-ancient-egyptians-were-naturally-fair-haired-005812

>>2355904
```show me a published paper.```

Also, the article simply says that it's "possible" not that any was ever discovered (outside the Greco-Roman era). So I'm not sure what that proves.

>>2355926
Also, I'm not disputing the fact that Egyptians were caucasians, which means, of course, they can have naturally red or fair brown hair, just that it's incredibly rare, and to try to use this to link them to Northern Europeans is beyond stupid.

>>2355926
I don't have one for proof of fair hair, but I do have one for proof he is western european.
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/other-shows/videos/king-tut-unwrapped-king-tuts-paternal-line/


STRs are repeated DNA sequences which are “short repeat units” whose characteristics make them especially suitable for human identification.
These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11

>>2351744
How is the Egyptian (on the right) not black? Everyone would consider this a black person where I'm from.

>>2351902
Moderate whites are as racist as the KKK they're just too lazy to join them.

>>2355964
>How is the Egyptian (on the right) not black?

1. Because Egyptian art is stylized.
2. Because he has Caucasian features, unlike, the Nubian in the same image.
3. Because race is not simply determined by skin color.
4. Because we FUCKING KNOW Egyptians weren't black.

>Everyone would consider this a black person where I'm from.
That is because African Americans have Northern European admixture, go to their native West Africa and you won't find a single person the same shade as the average black American

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>>2355981
>"Whites have built the greatest modern civilizations and advanced the world into what it is today"
>RACIST!!! FUCKING WHITE MALE OPPRESSOR WE WUZ KANGZ LITERALLY KKK HITLER
Obviously you are trolling, the past insignificance of the KKK is astounding. The fact that you would bring them up is to justify your own prejudice.
Keep your anti white rhetoric on /pol/ please.

>>2355851
>Eurocentrism is nothing like Afrocentrism
t. I'm not a hypocrite because I perceive my bias as special.

>>2355955
>I don't have one for proof of fair hair
you don't say?

>but I do have one for proof he is western european
Then you, my friend, got yourself a doctorate, please publish your work so may be recognized as the genealogical genius that you are.

>>2356020
>responds to actual facts with passive aggression and sarcasm because you cannot refute it
Please refrain from posting in the future.

>>2356019
No, you moron, I was saying those two terms mean completely different things, not that one bias is better than other.

Afrocentrism does not even qualify as a bias, it's an ideology, that is why it's more comparable to Stormfaggotry/Nazism rather than "Eurocentrism".

Try to use google next time.

>>2356026
Wait, there was something to refute? What did I miss?

>>2356067
>Afrocentrism does not even qualify as a bias, it's an ideology
So you've been conditioned to think. Post-modern sociology teaches us "there is no truth."

One perceives the world a European way, the other an African way. They are the same. Afro-supremacy and/or Black nationalism would be the equivalent of neo-national socialism or White nationalism.

>>2356096
I'm not judging the terms based on their literal meaning, you twit. Afrocentrism IS an Afro/black-supermacy ideology, and the white equivalent is not "Eurocentrism", but white-supremacy literature/ideologies.

>>2356096
We live in a European age, a lifestyle brought by the Europeans.
Calling it "eurocentrism" is disrespectful.
Go back to living in mud huts if you have problems with European civilization.

>>2351828
Great comparison as the many tribes of the Americas had vastly different genomes based on when they entered the Americas through the land bridge. It's not archaeologicaly mainstream but that's what I learned in my archaeology classes.

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>>2356521
That is assuming it's even a true statement, it's not. Pre-Dynastic Egyptians were a back-to-Africa population, just as all North Africans, they were even part of the Agricultural Revolution that entered Europe in the neolithic (pic related), long before Egypt was a thing.

Glad the KANGZ are already moving the goal-post though.

>>2355808

lol;

"Microscopic inspection of the roots of Ramesses II's hair proved that the king's hair was originally red, which suggests that he came from a family of redheads." - Bob Brier, Egyptian Mummies: Unravelling the Secrets of an Ancient Art, New York: William Morrow & Co. Inc, 1994, p. 153.

> Microscopic inspection of the roots

> hair was originally red

> from a family of redheads.

>>2356932
>Hair form is also a physical attribute that has been traditionally connected to "race". Given the obscurity of research on the issue, many Africanist scholars have been intimidated by the prospects of confronting what many Eurocentric scholars deemed to be "Caucasian-type" hair, still attached to the skulls of mummified remains, including the infamous case of the "red-haired" Ramses II. For those familiar with the mummification process, as well as the populations index means for hair cross sections, won't find difficulty in explaining these seeming peculiarities. It is actually quite simple to understand. Firstly, to suggest that such hair attached to any decomposed body has lasting biological inference is misleading. According to Rogers (1987), "two years years was found to be the maximum duration of Caucasian hair buried underground", while as early as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey concluded that hair alone is insufficient in determining "race". This is equally apparent of Egyptian mummies considering the embalming materials used in mummification. When hair is exposed over prolonged periods under unfavorable conditions, with the increased effect of chemicals used that lead to bond breakage and oxidation, hair generally becomes straightened and discolored. Brothwell and Spearman found evidence of cortex kertain oxidation within ancient Egyptian hair, attributing such effects to the mumification process. Also notable is that population means of cross-sections, indicative of 'straight, wavy, to whoolly hair. sub-Saharan (this obviously excludes supra-Saharan populations) African populations are found to average out to around 60 µm, aboriginal Australians/Tasmanians from 64-68 µm, while Europeans had an average of 71.

>>2356957
>Strouhal, in analyzing pre-dynastic remains at El-Badari, Egypt, found an average ranging from around 35-65 µm. Strouhal also reported a predominance in hair color that generally varied from dark brown to Black for the whole of dynastic Egyptians. Other studies found similar variation that seems to consistently hover around the area of 60-66 µm. Indeed, this is well removed from the range of European hair form, while the color and indices do not exclude African and Australians/Tasmanian populations of noted tropical adaptation. Once the unlikely scenario of Australians/Tasmanian contribution to the Egyptian gene pool is ruled out, and indigenous African diversity is appreciated (Northern and Southern), the African context of ancient Egyptian hair form is apparent. Indeed, Keita directly addresses this issue, citing that early hair as was described by Strouhal, was drastically no different from that of the Fulani, Kanuri, and Somali populations of East, West, and Central Africa. Individuals have also been the point of contention concerning this particular area of inference. For example, in direct response to Diop's assertions, it was suggested by the French Egyptologist Lionel Balout, that Ramses II was a "red headed, wavy-haired Leucoderm", as was gathered by microscopic analysis of the hair shaft and the presence of Phaeomelanin (red color). On closer inspection however, the red color in the hair was manifestly weak, and can actually be described as auburn.

>>2356959
>This is a condition seen visibly in contemporary populations of the Sudan (including the Beja). Equally telling is the little known fact that the active MC1R gene responsible for red hair actually originates in and is widely visible though out Africa. In addition, actual studies have found evidence of similar manifestation in modern Southern Sudanese who have shown cases of Blondism, generally at an early age. All of these populations are of indigenous African derivation. One of Balout's biggest mistakes was also publishing the results of the trichometric measurements that found Ramses II's hair averaged at around 60-70 (a median which is 65) µm; completely within the range of indigenous African diversity, non-indicative of any European or "Leucoderm" ancestry. This, not mentioning Harris and Weeks' X-Ray analysis of Ramses' cranio-facial structure, again showing him as an individual to fit well within the range of African variation. Though his obscure origins are still a matter of debate, given certain peculiarities surrounding his parentage among other things, the biological data alone doesn't seem to support Eurocentric claims that Ramses II was definitely of European or Asiatic extraction.

>>2356961
>>2356932
Did you even bother to read the shit you're quoting through?

>Though his obscure origins are still a matter of debate, given certain peculiarities surrounding his parentage among other things, the biological data alone doesn't seem to support Eurocentric claims that Ramses II was definitely of European or Asiatic extraction.

And I wasn't even talking about Ramses II specifically.

Also >>2355941

Goddamn, you're a presistent idiot.

>>2351478
Were all Ancient Egyptians black? No. Were some of them black? Almost certainly. Just look at its geographic position and that should be blatantly obvious.

>>2351482
Ahh yes, the famous mulatto (white/native american mix) migration of 3000BC truly unprecedented

>>2355808
Also black sub saharans dont have straight hair as seen on pic of ramses

>>2351902
You basically got the most unpopular ideas about whites and blacks playing a game of chess for some reason and not killing each other with the knife or gun.

Maybe they have something to gain from learning how the other thinks or something.

>>2357005
> Hair form
> Did you even bother to read the shit

Dude, they did not analyze the hair, but the roots.

He was a natural ginger from a family of gingers.

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>>2357561
I never claimed Egyptians were black.

>>2357824
I'm starting to think you have comprehension problems. Fucking read >>2355941

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Middle_East_and_Mediterranean

>>2357920
Then what the fuck are you arguing for? this thread is asking whether ancient Egyptians were black a la 'WE WUZ'

>>2355790

Geneticists actually have a horrifyingly poor track record that is the worst in any field that claims to be hard.
Population genetics wasn't really science until quite recently, the past few years.

In the past geneticists were forcing patterns into data that fit into their perceptions and this resulted in all sorts of nonsense that no one could disprove or prove.

>>2357965
>Then what the fuck are you arguing for?
See what I was replying to, you moron

>>2357972
Genealogy has been around for most of the 20th century, the Genographic Project is over 10 years old. What the fuck are you talking about?

>In the past geneticists were forcing patterns into data that fit into their perceptions and this resulted in all sorts of nonsense that no one could disprove or prove.
Science is not wrong just because it disagrees with your sensibilities, and that's not how you dispute scientific claims, if you have a better theory or better samples feel free to challenge the mainstream in a scientific manner, not by posting on image boards. See >>2356020

>>2358019

There hasn't been an autosomal aDNA study on Egypt so no we don't have a clue what Ancient Egypt was like in the past and how much genetic continuity there is.

"Evidence" acquired without modern methods can and must be dismissed.

>>2357920
Berbers are vandals senpai.

>>2358252

No berbers are berbers

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>>2358236
>There hasn't been an autosomal aDNA study on Egypt

Yes, there has..

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002397

And it's consistent with all prior y and mt DNA studies, Egyptians and North Africans all predominantly belong to a group of back-to-Africa population that entered it in the late Pleistocene, later migrations had little to no effect on the indigenous populations

Also, there's the brain size map in pic related, that shows (Lower) Egyptians are a unique group in the whole Mediterranean, North African, Middle Eastern and East African regions (that covers all possible admixture candidates).

>>2358252
>Berbers are vandals senpai.
what the literal fuck?

>>2358521

aDNA means DNA that is ancient = not from living people.
It's completely unknown what the genetic structure and global genetic affinities of ancient Egyptians were.

Continuity, however likely it may seem to you is not some guaranteed fact.

>>2358589
>Continuity, however likely it may seem to you is not some guaranteed fact.

Why are you making this about me? All I have to go on are published studies, and they all seem consistent to the point of certainty.

I simply have no single reason to doubt the population continuity theory, neither did you present one. So, what are we arguing?

>>2358673

aDNA is millions if not trillions of times more conclusive than guesstimates based on low resolution data.

>>2358704
Well, until someone manages to get more accurate data, this is as close as we ever got to a scientific fact, otherwise you just sound like a creationist trying to argue for the "missing link".

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>>2351620

>>2351632
Stop talking out your ass, you fucking moron.

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>>2351510
>but whites in charge?
Not really.