Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazi

Because the SU kept things lowkey. The Nazis exploded onto the world stage, with socialism and gunsablazin.

>>2311434
Because Jews. Not even memeing.

Because the things about the Soviet Union are just propaganda
And white by repeating propaganda all day you can get people to believe they're true. You can't demonstrate them because they're fake, so can't be as harsh as with the real thing (nazi crimes)

>>2311659
lel

Who is easier to hate the guy that writes you an email saying he's going to come to your house steal all your stuff and rape your wife and does it a week later or the random junkie looking for a fix who steals shit from your house and rapes your wife as a crime of opportunity?

Because the Soviets didn't attack Western Europe (aka the relevant world at the time) over autistic racial theories, bringing massive death and suffering to millions of people. That plus the systemic genocide of various groups. While the soviets did kill millions, they didn't go out of their way to do so in such a speedy and targeted manner like the nazis did.

That said, I do not like communism.

>>2311434
Why do polacks and the like always do this?

I.e. act as if in the eyes of normies communism is totes fine and people don't instinctly react with "gommunism killed a gorillion people". At best you'll get "good in theory bad in practice ;)".

>>2311434
history is written by the winners :^) (i.e. The Nazis lost)

>>2311434
>in which as many died as in the holocaust
incorrect

>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?
They weren't as much evil from ideological perspective (e.g. didn't called for extermination of whole nations) and they had lower killing intensity (for example Nazis passing through Belarus murdered every 4th person there).

Now go back where you belong

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I wonder...

Germany was a wealthy country and they elected Hitler, the nazis went out of their way to kill Jews and other groups for no reason whereas Stalin purged and famined to cling to power as other tyrants have done for centuries. The nazis represent an outlier in history, an exceptional evil compared to the more mundane everyday evil.

>>2311434

>communists did something bad
>therefore communism is evil

Communism is a shitty idea, but it isn't inherently evil. Bizarre pseudoscience about race is a part of nazism.

>>2311873
>didn't called for extermination of whole nations
You are correct, just large portions like western Prussia.
Or let's not forget that time they imprisoned allied airmen for dropping supplies on Warsaw for the uprising.
Or how they treated the poles in general.
Communism should be remembered like fascism as a dangerous authoritarian system which oppressed it's masses and imprisoned people based on their thoughts and personal beliefs.

>>2311915

Killing people so yon can stay in power is not the same as rounding up specific races and executing them for no reason.

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>>2311434
>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?
it really is a mystery

>>2311927
It is equally reprehensible.

>>2311909
Communism is way more evil in theory than in practice. Engels wrote about the necessity to exterminate entire races in addition to classes.

>>2311927
>no reason
Yeah Hitler hated the Jews "for no reason". You faggot. Hitler hated the bourgeoise for the same things communists hated them, except he also explicitly singled out their ethnicity.

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>read OP and want to seriously answer
>read through thread
I am done with this board

>>2311942
Let's look at the USSR and Germany
Having a "reason" or not is irrelevant, the actions by both states was actively repressing their people for personal power, including killing and imprisoning people based on their ideological and theocratic beliefs, and yes they both hated religion on principle. They are very similar ideologies when you get down to the core of it, with very superficial differences, both hated religion, both had planned economics,both suppressed political opponents, both were gearing for war to retake what they viewed as their rightful lands. They are frighteningly similar, but communism was not stifled in its infancy and still exists, which is why the awful crimes communist nations committed and still commit are largely glazed over.
Both ideologies favor authoritarianism which is bad and will always be bad.

>>2311933
Maybe, but you can't do much about human thuggery while you can convince voters in a free country of the dangers of regimes like the nazis.

>>2311942
Whatever the bourgeoisie are in the wrong about is in a whole different ballpark to what tyrants routinely do.

>he also explicitly singled out their ethnicity
Why? Some eastern European Jewish immigrant is as far from bourgeois as Hitler was in Vienna. So this is still irrational even if I assume bourgeois are the most evil thing in the world ever justifying tyranny.

>>2311936
>Engels wrote about the necessity to exterminate entire races in addition to classes
what

>>2311974
>eastern European jewish immigrant
>immigrant

>>2311977
>Until its complete extermination or loss of national status, this racial trash always becomes the most fanatical bearer there is of counter-revolution, and it remains that. That is because its entire existence is nothing more than a protest against a great historical revolution. … The next world war will cause not only reactionary classes and dynasties, but also entire reactionary peoples, to disappear from the earth. And that too, is progress.

>>2311974
>Maybe, but you can't do much about human thuggery while you can convince voters in a free country of the dangers of regimes like the nazis.
What does this statement have to do with what I said?
I'm failing to see the relevance.

>>2311985
Can I get a source for that?
I want to have it on hand the next time a commutard starts blathering on.

>>2311990
http://marxists.anu.edu.au/archive/marx/works/1849/01/13.htm

>>2311434
because the worldwide propaganda machine was on during a time when the soviets were the good guys.

>>2311995
results 0 out of 0

>>2312009
The quote is two separate parts.

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>>2312013
Cannot even find the words "racial trash" and when I google the whole quote I get Stormfront

>>2311978
not all jews are bourgeois
>>2311987
It is easier to convince voters not to be nazis than it is to convince Mugabe of the errors of his ways.

>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?
So decrying nazism accomplishes more, gram for gram.

>>2312049
>So decrying nazism accomplishes more, gram for gram.
No it doesn't. Nazism and Communism are two sides of the same coin.

>>2311434
Because it is in the worlds best interest to not antagonize eachother and communism is still very much practiced in China going around and decrying their ideology as autocratic thuggery would raise tensions between nations.
Meanwhile Nazism is dead and gone on the world stage.

>>2311915
>Communism
>Authoritarianism
Because those are two different tings you US-American. Their most popular crossover (Stalinism) is pure evil and commonly regarded as so, just as much as National Socialism is.

>>2312076
Show me a non authoritarian government that has ever been communist.
>inb4 No true communist meme.

>>2312080
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory

>>2312076
Classless and hierarchyless society would ve the epitome evil.

>>2312085
Pls explain

>>2312086
It goes against God explicitly.

>>2312084
>Anarchism is a legitimate form of government.

>>2312080
>>2312091
You wanted me to show you a non-authoritarian government that is also communist. Anarchism is as non-authoritarian as it gets. What else do you need? Take a look at present-day Rojava if that isn't enough for you.

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>>2312094
>>2312084
>anarchist
>government

>>2312099
>he doesn't know what anarchism is

>>2312094
Anarchism is not a government, it is the lack there of.
>belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

>>2312094
Rojava has the guarantee of property rights in its fucking constitution it is not communist by its fucking definition.

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>>2312102

>>2311915
Germans in Prussia were repatriated, not exterminated.

>Or let's not forget that time they imprisoned allied airmen for dropping supplies on Warsaw for the uprising
Or when Stalin was stallin' the offensive during Warsaw uprising and let Germans massacre the city. But I don't think Poles will ever forget about Russian crimes against them.

>Communism should be remembered like fascism as a dangerous authoritarian system which oppressed it's masses and imprisoned people based on their thoughts and personal beliefs.
Yup, thats exactely how it is remembered everywhere, maybe except for Russia.

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>>2311434
The Soviets didn't lose the war.

/thread

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>the communist apologists this thread

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>>2311434

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>>2312134
>>2312165
>b-but Russians were just as evil as Germans!
>No, Russians were cunts, but Germans played on another level
>REEEE, commie apologist, REEEE

Go home crybaby

>>2312188
If they are both evil does it truly matter who is more evil?
If I kill a man for being a capitalist am I any more evil for killing the same man on the grounds he is a jew?
The answer should be no.

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>>2312134
>that tattoo

>>2312196
As a person who did not started the thread I am not saying it matters much, as long as it is not the first step in rehabilitation of Hitler.

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>>2311434
Because it's couched in the language of universal compassion and is thus attractive to people who prioritize care and fairness. Killing people for love.

>>2312057
but nazism was elected democratically and it is easier to convince voters than a dictator

OP said specifically
>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?
for practical reasons it makes more sense to decry nazism

Also communists focus on helping the little guy, at least ostensibly, whereas nazism involves antisemitism and other questionable things.

>GULag's
It's an acronym anglos, not a synonym for concentration camps. Russian historians do not use this word in this manner, as a synonym for the camps, because it's just plain wrong.

More Ukrainians were hunger-genocided in 1932-33 than Jews killed by National Socialists. Kiev Cheka-GP had 75% Jewish personnel from the very beginning to the end of the Second World War. In other words, Jewish Chekists killed more Ukrainians than National Socialists killed Jews.

Camps didn't disappear when the Main administration of the camps was disbanded. New administration with the old personnel was formed, in other words: nothing changed, except no longer quota for prisoners sentenced with article 58 was so high as it was during the Father of Nations. At some point in the late 70's, criminals might actually have surprassed politicals in numbers in the Archipelago.
The word 'camp' was no longer used for any concentration and forced labour camps, but all were 'colonies' (just like they are today in Russia, the same acronym ITK is still used).

>Communists were the first aggressors attacking Finland
German-Soviet invasion of Poland started the Second World War, so the war was started by Soviet Union and German in tandem. Attempted invasion of Finland by the USSR came few months later, but was independent conflict from the Soviet invasion of Poland.
Finland as German's ally, used military force only against Soviet Union, but only after it was attacked by the Soviets first (Finland did lay mines to the Gulf of Finland before Soviet military action, but mining is not an military action when done on own territories obviously).

>>2312188
>USSR
>Russians
Nice try.

>>2312392
>USSR
>Not Russians

Yea, sometimes I forget SSSR was actually reptilian...

>>2312043
Although it wouldn't be the first time stormfront has made shit up to suit its agenda, a search also comes up with a PRO communism blog quoting that and trying to debunk it. I'm a bit confused as to why that quote doesn't even show up there.

>>2311669
what the fuck kind of retarded analogy is this

>>2311434
Because the holocaust was a product of nazi ideology and the Soviet problems were products of an authoritarian state trying to centralize power.
Nazi- acted from an ideaology
>soviets- acted to control feedback from an arbitrary political revolution and centralized power.
Literally nothing to do with communism, it's system dynamics.
It's like the difference between arson and a forest fire.

>>2312005
What about the anti-communism propaganda? Mostly made by the USA? Almost every movie in the 80s (or close) had the villains as evil communists.

>>2312453
Y'know, minus the genocide they committed

>>2311434
Because communism is predicated on just assumptions. Fascism is predicated on unjust assumptions.

>>2312575
The Soviet Union never committed any genocide.

>2312625
Well they did

>>2312625

riiiiight

>>2312627
Nah, there's no evidence of any violence or oppression meant to eradicate a certain ethnicity.

However, under Stalin forced deportations absolutely happened. Many Muslim groups were deported to Central Asia so Islamic resistance could be contained. Hardcore tankies will say otherwise, but mass deportation like that is unforgivable.

>>2311671
>systemic genocide of various groups
>>2311873
>didn't called for extermination of whole nations
>>2312625
>never committed any genocide.

Let me tell you about the Holodomor, which is Ukrainian for "death by starvation". You see, in 1932 Ukraine was starting to realize that the whole Soviet Union thing wasn't really all that great. So, there were mutterings of rebellion, of independence. What Stalin did was that he effectively dismantled all Ukrainian infrastructure relating to the production and distribution of food, as well as moving all food out of the country. In addition, all foreign attempts to aid Ukraine was stopped by the Soviet government.

Over the next year, between four and seven million people died of starvation. This puts in the same category as the fucking Holocaust, as far as genocides go. Yet nobody speaks of it. No movies are made about it. No interviews with teary eyed survivors. Russia still denies it ever happened.

It's not that the Soviet Union never committed genocide - it's that they were a lot better at it. Hitler killed overtly, with the intent to send a message. Stalin committed genocide covertly.

>>2312669
Soviets did not tried to eradicate nations ala nazis, but they've broken and assimilated Nations. Which still qualifies for a genocide.

Even that Jew who coined the term "genocide" would call Holodomor, the most famous example, a genocide.

>>2312672
>This puts in the same category as the fucking Holocaust, as far as genocides go.
No not really. No gas chambers, no final solutions, no saturation of anti-Ukrainian hatred, no Einzatsgruppen.

>Yet nobody speaks of it. No movies are made about it.
There are, just not in USA. Since 19th century was west (starting with Austria) inciting Ukrainian nationalism in order to weaken Russian empire and later its red iteration. We just don't view it as a priority.

>Russia still denies it ever happened.
First they deny it was a genocide using the fact that there was Russia-wide famine and Ukrainians were not a special case. Second Russian nationalistic historiography is laughed throughout academia.

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>>2312615

>it's a just assumption to assume that a peasant who employs another peasant to help harvest his fields come harvest time is an evil exploiter of said peasant and should be liquidated

I HATE THIS FUCKING BOARD

>>2312713
Why are gas chambers worse than actively starving people to death? And of course there was no anti-Ukranian hatred, as that would imply the existence of internal strife in the Soviet Union, something Stalin obviously wanted to avoid having to publically admidt.

>>2311669
What the fuck are you on about? You high? Need help? What's going on over there Anon?

>>2312426
It was as much Russian as Congo Free State was Congolese, retard.

>>2311901
>kill Jews and other groups for no reason
I'm not a Nazi apologist but that's just wrong, the Nazi ideology is about purity of race, that and centuries of hate for Jews and gypsies, right or wrong, justified the Holocaust in the eyes of the intelligentsia

>>2312747
I don't know why starving people to death is better than actively killing them, but it seems to be the case.
I mean, we can expand this to the British empire or Indonesia with east Timor. They starved folks out, but folks don't give any shits.
We can even talk about forms of direct killing. Gassing and going house to house is bad, but letting artillery shells do their work instead of soldiers, in the case of hafez al-assad and Homs, gets less flak in the press.

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>>2312625
>The Soviet Union never committed any genocide.

>>2312747
>Why are gas chambers worse than actively starving people to death?
Dehumanization of victims, "industriality" and the fact it was final solution. During holodomor Ukies were "just broken down" accepted that they are actually Russians and lived happily ever after, until little green men appeared.

>internal strife in the Soviet Union, something Stalin obviously wanted to avoid having to publically admidt
You mean the Stalin who had his second in command exiled and killed? He didn't have problems with admitting anything, you are just grasping at straws here.

>>2312765
>Claims SSSR was reptilian
>Calls others retards
you might as well be insulting a mirror

>>2312298
>hunger-genocided
this isn't a thing you IRA Fenian cunt

>>2312776
Yes, nobody ever criticised colonialism.

>>2312784
>reptilian
That's just a strawman you used. It was created by Jews and ended up getting ruled by a Georgian. Russians were just occupied people in the USSR.

>>2312812
Sure thing buddy.

>>2312826
Not an argument, retard.

>Lenin
Jew-Kalmyk

>Trotsky
Jew

>Stalin
Georgian

>Beria
Georgian

>Krushchev
Ukrainian

>Brezhnev
Ukrainian

>Andropov
Jew

>Chernenko
Ukrainian

>Gorbachov
Ukrainian

Nice (((Russians))) you got there faggot.

>>2312847
Chernenko was a Jew.

>>2312793
They have, but not necessarily on account of starvation, unless one is part of the starved group.

>>2312847
wow so woke XD and totally not incorrect

>>2312847
Lenin was about as Jewish as Marx. jesus christ russians are retarded

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>>2312784
There's a distinct difference between "this individual is a traitor in our ranks" and "a significant region in our union, consisting of millions of people, is questioning the core of our ideology".

>He didn't have problems with admitting anything
Of course. It's not like the he had a long history of 1984-style revisionism of historical facts, complete with make people unpersons whenever they fell out of favor with him.

>>2312882
>Kalmyk father
>Jewish/Swedish mother
The only Russian thing about him was that he spoke Russian, probably not even as his first language. According to Maxim Gorky he also basically said Russians are subhumans unless they carry Jewish blood.

>>2312891
>"this individual is a traitor in our ranks"
>Individual, not large portion of party

>Of course. It's not like the he had a long history of 1984-style revisionism of historical facts, complete with make people unpersons whenever they fell out of favor with him.
You are correct, I guess, still there was no orchestrated hatred against Ukrainians as a nation.

>>2311434
For same reason that no one remembers gypsies, slavs, gays, and retards that nazis gassed.

>>2312932
That doesn't make sense. Why would Americans try not to paint SSSR horns?

>>2312881
Still not an argument, Moishe.

>>2311901
>evil
>exceptional evil
>an outlier in history

Good fucking God just fuck off

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Two things:

1) USSR wasn't the "real enemy" of the Allies in WW2, they just bullied the shit out of smaller countries with little fucks given. Nazi Germany however, really took the credit and limelight and has left a longstanding bad impression.

2) Communism is decried here in the US though, people call each other communists as a derogatory term. Simple non-radical ideas are labeled "communist" and everyone jerks their hand away like it was a hot stove.

But really, schools don't cover how bad(ass) Stalin's reign was. I didn't know what a gulag was til college, nor of his total kill score or pre-photoshop shenanigans.

>>2312977
Dunno, treating occupied European countries like they treated their colonials subjects was pretty uniquely German.

>>2312909
>still there was no orchestrated hatred against Ukrainians as a nation

Because such a thing would have been detrimental to the coherence of the Soviet Union. Hitler had no problems orchestrating hatred against the Jews because the Jews were demonstratively The Others; whereas the Ukrainians were still presented as an integral part of the union. Hitler needed to unite Germany against a common enemy, and the Jews were a suitable candidate. Stalin and communism already had plenty of external enemies to chose from, and as such had no need to create further division among themselves.

My argument is that Stalin didn't orchestrate hatred towards Ukrainians because there was nothing to gain for him politically from doing so - but this does not mean that the mass genocide of Ukrainians was less evil than the mass genocide of Jews. A covert genocide is still a genocide.

Let's be honest - there are three real factors as to why Hitler and nazism is seen as more evil.

1) He lost the war. Hitler was The Great Enemy in what was possibly the last war that made America feel unambiguously good about itself.
2) Stalin had a history of holding things under wraps, meaning that his crimes were not nearly as widely publicized.
3) Entertainment industry jews.

Perhaps, if Hollywood had been staffed by Ukrainian expats instead, things would have been different.

>>2312986
>Simple non-radical ideas are labeled "communist" and everyone jerks their hand away like it was a hot stove

Not nearly as hard as they jerk it away if it's labeled "nazi". You will find many American academics espousing the virtues of communism. You will not find nearly as many singing the praises of national socialism.

>>2312672
The Holodomor wasn't a genocide. The famine was caused by negligence, not malice, and affected people throughout the southwestern USSR.

Saying that Stalin dissembled food infrastructure is patently false. He did nothing to worse the conditions of the Ukrainians once famine struck, but also did nothing to better their conditions. Stalin was so insistent on industrialization that he did not limit grain quotas even as production dropped.

>>2313012
>My argument is that Stalin didn't orchestrate hatred towards Ukrainians because there was nothing to gain for him politically from doing so - but this does not mean that the mass genocide of Ukrainians was less evil than the mass genocide of Jews. A covert genocide is still a genocide.
Correct, but as you just admitted holocaust was not as bad. Ukrainians were meant to be broken, not exterminated. That was my point, why Holocaust is on another level. Look, half of Ukraine has positive opinion of Russia, but Jews having positive view of 3rd Reich could only be found in asylums.

>Let's be honest - there are three real factors as to why Hitler and nazism is seen as more evil.
These are correct but irrelevant, the key one was that in the cold war Slavs were enemies of the West. Here in Eastern Europe the holocaust was ignored as much as genocides against Slavs were ignored on the other side since Jews were "Cosmopolitans without roots" and our supposed enemies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

>the loss of life has been compared to the Holocaust for which it is anti-Semitic to even compare, as nobody on this earth has suffered more than the Chosen People of God, his holy and only Jewish people

Which one of you silly bastards did this

>>2311434
>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?
Perhaps because communism in theory is not racist or imperialistic.
>>2312298
>More Ukrainians were hunger-genocided in 1932-33 than Jews killed by National Socialists.
What do you base such claim on? The figures attributed for both genocides vary a lot depending on the source.

>>2311434

Communism wasn't created by the people that gave it a bad name.

Nazism was created and destroyed by the same guy. Not to mention to a lot of people Hitler was a joke.

It's not often in History that we see guys claim their are god and not actually be god only to be dead a few years later after saying they're basically immortal. Oh wait we do, and you know what we laugh at them all!

>>2311434

because communism isnt about something stalin or pol pot did in its name, its a notion of how a society could function and how a economic and political set up could be set up

same as democracy isnt about how many people the french slaughtered from 1789 onwards or what democratic gowerments in both americas did with whole populations of humans

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>>2311434
>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?

We got to see what the Soviet Union was doing behind the scenes on 1991, but all that it proved was that guys like Conquest and Rummel were just making shit up.

>>2311434
Because it pertains to stupid human apes innate urge to be lazy and get free stuff without working so to humans communism is seen as FREEDOM HURR ITS GOOD.

>>2312733
If you're hiring somebody reliant on your wages, you're exploiting them.

Wage laborers are held hostage by capitalists. Because they lack the means to make money independently, they sell their labor. Capitalists invariably skim the wages of their employees. This is how profit is created in production.

>>2312747
"Actively starving people to death" never happened. The Ukrainian famine was man-made due to willful negligence, not active malice.

Even profoundly anti-communist historians like Martin Malia, Richard Pipes, and Robert Service admit this.

>>2313161
Yup, because work under communism was totally not mandatory and people got a ton of stuff for doing absolutely nothing.

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>>2313184

Because there's nothing evil about communism as an ideology.
You don't even need to be a communist to understand this. For example, Popper, a rabid anti communist, writes:
>It is tempting to dwell upon the similarities between Marxism, the Hegelian left-wing, and its fascist counterpart. Yet it would be utterly unfair to overlook the difference between them. Although their intellectual origin is nearly identical, there can be no doubt of the humanitarian impulse of Marxism.
And he later calls it "the only vigorous movement with humanitarian ends".

You should be asking why isn't leninism/stalinism decried as evil instead. Except it generally is.

>>2312847

>Andropov Jew

no he wasnt! he was a full blooded Russian. stop lying Ivan

>>2311434
Literally and unironically Jews. Also it wouldn't work to say the worst events in history come from our erstwhile ally in the Soviet Union. Also nationalism for white people needed to be demonised by both the USA and Soviet Union, so it was convenient for both sides, and the Anglo, and the French, and leftists within the West, and the Jews. Also Hollywood is Jewish.

>>2313141
I will never forgive liberals for Robespierre.

>>2312672
t. butthurt hohol

>>2311974
>refuse assimilation
>sit comfy while other groups fight the war then start communist revolution when the country is down
>get involved in the vice industry
>lie constantly about growing nationalism
What's the Goyim's problem?

>>2311936
Are you seriously implying that is a bad thing?

>>2314174
He's right to be upset though, the soviets were monsters and they really don't get enough shit for it.

>>2314164
For killing him, you mean

>>2311659
If you believe that then you're unironically brainwashed.

>>2314367
For supporting him. The liberal is a sly snake. He'll use any tool in his freedom promotion. Whether it be Stalin then or Antifa now, Mugabe or the Taliban. The eternal liberal is behind all plots. Behind every Jew there is a Swede.

>>2312756
Fascists and Nazis were honest in their intentions of conquest and genocide, Soviet Communist atrocities just kind of happened along the way, is it really that difficult to understand the analogy?

>>2314428
Stalin was anything but a liberal


The Taliban was all-but created by the American right

>>2314507
My point is not that these people are liberals but that liberals in the sense of people who support liberalism use these groups and people as cats paws and then go "oh that's terrible we need more liberalism" when they're outlived their usefulness.
The liberal ruins your country and then cries democratisation.

>>2314507

>The Taliban was all-but created by the American right

If you ignore the part where they came out of Pakistani madrassas then yes.

>>2313111
Why does racism count for 'evil points'?

>>2315562
Because people should be judged by the merit of their actions, not by the color of their skin, what they think, or what they believe.

>>2315562
I don't think racism per se is evil, I think carrying a genocide in the name of a racist ideology is though. Since the question was why one ideology is decried as more evil than the other, I figured the answer is on something these ideologies differ on. And while both ideologies have in common that they resulted in genocides in the name of them, they differ in that one of them is not racist.

>>2315562
Hating people based on immutable characteristics is repugnant

>>2311659
>nazi crimes
>real thing
Pick one.

>>2311434
Cuz they won WW2

>>2311823
If communism isn't "totes fine" in the eyes of normies why can I walk down the street wearing a hammer and sickle t-shirt with no one batting an eye, but a swastika t-shirt would swiftly cause an angry mob to form around me?

>>2313342
>Because there's nothing evil about communism as an ideology.
>there's nothing evil about an ideology that's predicated upon mass robbery and execution of all who resist
Fuck off Red.

>>2315594
>Because people should be judged by the merit of their actions, not by the color of their skin, what they think, or what they believe.
Unless those people are filthy bourgeoisie who think they should be allowed to own their own property, then it's off to the killing fields, amirite comrade?

>>2317037
>they differ in that one of them is not racist.
No it's just classist and built upon the idea of hating those that have more than you.

>>2317241
>>2317250
>>2317258
>execution
>killing fields
>hating
False.

>>2317265
>false
wew lad

>>2317213
A hammer and sickle can be no more offensive than many national flags. Also communists are classist not racist. The former is tolerated by society more.

>>2312942
Because American historians didn't get access to Ruskie records until after the collapse of the USSR in the 90s

Holomordor falls under revisionist history , which contrary to whatever hug shitbox you came from is not an evil school of thought.

>>2317213
In America you'll probably get punched or yelled at by angry right-wingers

>>2317241
Property is theft inherently. If you own a mine, you are witholding capital from that mine's workers and stealing their wages.

Redistribution isn't theft of the bourgeoisie, but the correction of theft of the proletariat

>>2311434

>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?

It is.

>>2312298
Stupid fuck slav kill yourself, Finland wasn't allied (and only a co-belligerent during Continuation War) with Germany during Winter War, stop acting like Molotov–Ribbentrop didn't happen.

>>2317312
>a hammer and sickle is no more offensive than any other national flag
Yes that's my point.
The national flag of the Soviet Union is tolerated but the national flag of Germany from 1933 to 1945 isn't.

>>2317390
I've never encountered an "angry right winger" in my life but I've seen plenty of militant communists walking the streets.

>>2317395
Yes and Jews are a rootless international clique of nation wreckers therefore it is perfectly acceptable and morally correct to put them into camps.

>>2311434
>Why isnt Communism decried as pure evil the same way as Nazism?

Because Frankefurt school of thinking

Google "cultural marxism" for more info

>>2317421
If that's the case why are Marxist professors tolerated in academia but not Nazi professors?

>>2314507
Retard.

>>2317469
Well they did loose the war.

>>2317544
So did the Soviets.

>>2317549
A real war not some ideological campaign, at the end of the day the country is still a permanent member of the U.N. and all its satellite states lost their status.
See >>2317258

>>2317568
>the country is still a permanent member of the U.N
The Soviet Union is still part of the UN?
That's news to me.

>>2317576
Retard

>>2317579
Just because your argument is illogical doesn't make me a retard for pointing it out.

>>2317668
More like you can't apprehend the logic of simple name changes or where power is located.

>>2317474
Haha what the fuck

Do you live in the Philippines or some shit?

>>2317390
Im America it's the commies who go around punching people, not the right wingers.

>>2317713
True, the right prefers murder. White supremacists regularly shoot up people for being black or Muslim. Only two weeks ago a man was shot just because he disagreed with Milo.

>>2317932
He was shot because he was violent, by an Asian.

>murders
I can't recall tge last time there were right wingers murdering someone. The 90s perhaps?

>>2311434
Soviet Union ≠ Communism. Rage, but it's true. Communism is a ideology that has been interpreted and practiced myriad ways. Stalin was such a nutjob that even Lenin (himself a blood-thirsty prick) did not want him to be his successor. Castro's Cuba might have been more chill if it weren't for the extreme hostility of the US and the whole backdrop of the Cold War. Are its decades of being a police state really communism?

It's the same way that predatory defaulted mortgage repossessions, bringing freedom by bomb and humvee, militarized untouchable police forces, or for-profit prison systems are all not a feature of capitalism per se, but of American society and its interpretation of capitalism. Australia, Finland, and Argentina are all capitalist countries too, but are not like the USA.

Personally, I do think Communism a shit ideology though (a bold thing to say in 2017, I know). Namely it is too open to corruption, which I think all highly centralizing forms of government ultimately are. Planned/regulated associations are one thing, but absolute power corrupts absolutely...

>>2318082
Literally the other day in Quebec. Breivik, Dylan Roof etc.

>>2318082
Islamists are radical right wingers, just from a different right wing

Most hate crimes in America are committed by good ol white supremacists

>>2318136
USSR was better than communism.

>>2317193
>two genocide deniers arguing which genocide was more fake

I SMELL A SITCOM

>>2317699
Are you claiming Bolsheviks still hold political power in modern Russia?

>>2317707
New York CIty.

>>2318136
>Soviet Union ≠ Communism.
Nazi Germany does not represent the totality of right-wing populism either but that doesn't stop people from treating it as if it is. It's arguable Nazi Germany isn't even representative of National Socialism as Hitler deviated from the founding principles of his party and did his own thing, as demostrated by the historical divide between Hitlerism and Strasserism.

By the way, Communism isn't a shit ideology because "it's too open to corruption" or "it's too highly centralized". Communism is a shit ideology because it's literally banditry masquerading as a political ethos.

>>2318456
Islamists are not "right wing" they are totally outside the frame of reference of Western political theories. If Islamists were "right-wing" Leftists wouldn't be fighting so hard to import them into our countries by the millions.

>>2318751
Are you claiming that modern Russia is not a direct continuation of SSSR? They just swapped socialism for capitalism and christianity.

>>2318771
So then logically does that make Germany a direct continuation of the Nazis? They just swapped national socialism for representative democracy after all.

>>2318792
Incorrect, there was forced change of gov.; Nazi symbolism is banned and people from former NSDAP were driven out from positions of power.

In Russia the change was internal and almost without violence, SSSR is seen as legitimate, Soviet symbolism is part of Russian symbolism, former communists still hold power (even Vova himself is ex-NKVD).

>>2312672
t. kulak

Because of cultural marxism that infiltrated the west.

>>2318765
Left wingers just like everyone who isn't liked by the FUCKING WHITE MALEs of their society.

>>2318146
He got expelled by one of the dudes at the mosque.

>>2311985
>The next world war will cause...
>The next world war
>Friedrich Engels died August 5, 1895

That quote is made up and very clumsily so.

>>2318765
Islam is all about enforcing hierarchy and inequality. That, by definition, is right-wing.

And leftists aren't trying to "import Islamists by the millions." That's an absurd and disingenuous way to frame the issue. Liberal politicians want to buff their labor pool with cheap workers, and bringing in refugees from war-torn countries scores first world nations some humanitarian brownie points.

The fact that refugees are Muslim is of no serious concern to first world governments. Their inability to recognize that religion could be important is why there is such backlash against refugee acceptance today.

>>2319761
https://marxists.catbull.com/archive/marx/works/1849/01/13.htm

Last paragraph.

>>2311659
t. Jason Unruhe

>>2317395
>property is theft
nice meme

If I own the mine, I'm not stealing the wages of the workers; I hired them to work my property, which they agreed to do so voluntarily, so I can generate capital from the investment I made. The miners whom I employ didn't come up with the idea to establish the mining enterprise nor did they take any financial risk in doing so.

>>2312043
>>2319761
It's a legitimate quote you cucks. As for racial trash:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Friedrich_Engels

>"The Magyar Struggle" in Neue Rheinische Zeitung (13 January 1849). Völkerabfälle has been variously translated as "ethnic trash" or "racial trash."
"Ethnic trash" is pretty much a literal translation of völkerabfälle if you know German.

>>2312443
>doesn't even show up there
Because it's a different translation, apparently. The article linked translates it as "residual fragments of people" (top lel) while as I said in >>2320142 "ethnic trash" is a much better translation. If you just use ctrl+f like a peasant instead of actually reading the fucking article then no wonder you can't find it.

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>>2319763
>And leftists aren't trying to "import Islamists by the millions

>>2313034
It was at first a combination of stupid Socialist economy and famine at first, but then the government did deliberately withhold the grain distribution portions for the Ukrainians.

>>2320123
> which they agreed to do so voluntarily
Because people are free to choose whatever job they want.

>So I can generate capital from the investment I made.
How did you get yourself in a position to make an investment and not the other guy working the mine?

>The miners whom I employ didn't come up with the idea to establish the mining enterprise
An enterprise requires more than coming up with an idea. More often than not it requires education, skills, network and wealth. Not everyone have equal access to these things.

>nor did they take any financial risk in doing so.
Most people cannot afford to take the kind of financial risk required to start a mining enterprise.

>>2311823
Considering Trudeau and a bunch of others actively praised Castro despite what he'd done shows this isn't true

>>2318762
>Communism is a shit ideology because it's literally banditry masquerading as a political ethos.
It may also be that, but in my opinion (and that of many others) it IS rife for corruption. And, since the Third International, has been most often run as a highly centralized, 'top down' command structure. A dictatorship "of" the people (really "for" the people).

>>2319763

>And leftists aren't trying to "import Islamists by the millions."

lol

>>2311434
Because of jews still pushing it through postmodern tricks

>>2318762
Best post ITT

>>2311434
As the Nazis said, they're two sides to the same "international, Jewish" coin.

Hello.

>>2320641

Hi

Because in its core, Communism doesn't have bad intentions.

Nazis had them in their core belief that they're superior to others and that they have the right to exterminate them.

>>2320123
>"work for me for 50 years or starve to death"
>"durrr wage labor is voluntary"

>>2321058

>Work for me or work for someone else or work for the government
>DUDE SLAVERY LMAO

>>2318807
>almost without violence
There was literally an attempted coup to reinstate the communists, your claim that Russia is the legitimate heir of the Soviets but Germany is not the heir if the Nazis is arbitrary and ridiculous.

>>2320515
You missed the point. Everything you said was true but to call those things the most objectionable aspects of Communism is the equivalent of claiming the most objectionable thing about Jeffrey Dahmer was his alcoholism.

>>2311434
Communist deaths were starvation.

Proto alt right aka fascist deaths were a happy success.

>>2321069
>There was literally an attempted coup to reinstate the communists
If you had a bit of reading comprehension then you'll be aware I know that. Key word: almost. Doesn't change the fact that there was no sharp change of govermnent and no division of core Russian territory.

>arbitrary and ridiculous.
As is everything in such discussions, this is not science. Thing is that RF consider SSSR something to be proud of and claims it, while BRD would like to erase third Reich from history.

>the legitimate heir of the Soviets
Direct continuation, not heir we did not spoken about heirs. This is major difference, since both are cases of nations inheriting history of their predecesors.

>>2320896
>Nazis had bad intentions because they wanted to help their people by stealing from their neighbors, and liberating the world from the tyranny of corrupt Jewish bankers.
>Communists had good intentions because they wanted to help their people by stealing from their neighbors, and liberating the world from corrupt bourgeoisie bankers.

I think the problem is people honestly don't know what Nazism or Communism stands for, beyond a handful of memes they learned from Hollywood.

>>2321115
>Thing is that RF consider SSSR something to be proud of and claims it, while BRD would like to erase third Reich from history.
Which is utterly meaningless at the end of the day as it's a reflection of governmental policy set by political parties that can be changed at the stroke of a pen. Not every Russian considers their Soviet history glorious and not every German considers their history shameful.

>>2321167
Not every Russian considers globe round and not every German considers himself a human...

Important is official historiography, people in position of power and the dynamics of change of state. Hell, Yelcin fully claimed Soviet legacy, he even kept Soviet seat in the UN. Only thing that transfered from Reich to Germany were the reparations.

>>2317932
lol. he was shot because a leftist thought he was a nazi. its funny that the example you offer to prove your point instantly disproved it and instead proved that which you were offering the point against.

>>2321090
I think the worst horrors of communism (as it has actually existed) are sort of common knowledge. I am talking about communism 'on paper' -- even there, from its inception, it's already prone to corruption and absolutism. It only went downhill once actual communist governments tried to form. I would argue in many cases they were just garden variety authoritarians who found communism a convenient flag.

>>2321262
If you want to show people that you aren't a fascist, murdering those who disagree is a terrible way to go about it.

You people are fucking wild

>>2312847
>Andropov was Jewish
Wrong.

>>2313023
>You will find many American academics praising communism
lol

>>2321198
>people in position of power and the dynamics of change of state

and guess what?
Nazis remained in power during the transition to the new German government. There's no logical way to claim that the Soviet Union lives on through Russia but Nazi Germany magically vanished in a puff of smoke, even though Germany is made up of the exact same Germans that made up Nazi Germany.

>>2317213
In the USA you might get shot at for doing that. In crowds of younger Eastern Europeans you might get hit too.

>>2321290
Communism "on paper", from the very beginning is founded upon the idea that it is not only morally correct for "workers" to rob and murder their employers, but morally necessary to do so. It's indefensible from the very beginning, and the only reason more people don't realize this is because they assume that they won't be the ones being robbed, driven from their homes and murdered for the "crime" of owning things.

>>2321534
>In the USA you might get shot at for doing that.
Bull fucking shit.
What fantasy land are posting from?

>>2314254
>civilian population should be punished for the attrocities their government put on them
That retarded logic never ceases to astonish me.

>>2321552
>Communism "on paper", from the very beginning is founded upon the idea that it is not only morally correct for "workers" to rob and murder their employers, but morally necessary to do so.
Wrong.

>>2320123
>nice meme
mice neme
>le capitalism is le voluntary even if you le die if you dont le work for le shitty wages
le XDD!!

>>2318082
Last October there were three nutjob "Crusader" LARPers planning to blow up an apartment complex because it housed refugees.

>>2317528
They are hardly tolerated AFAIK.

>>2320197
>Because people are free to choose whatever job they want.
Yes they are. Nobody is forcing workers to sell their labor to a Capitalist. If you can provide a good or service that's marketable or have some sort of talent that people are willing to give you the time of day for, you can produce your own wealth. Alternatively, just work for the gov't or become a NEET. If you're a talentless dumbass then you have no right to complain.

>How did you get yourself in a position to make an investment and not the other guy working the mine?
I could've worked my way up to that position. There are countless examples of people starting from next to nothing to becoming entrepreneurs. It takes a certain type of person with certain innate skills, but that's why not everybody and their mother owns a business. Humans are inherently unequal.

>More often than not it requires education, skills, network and wealth. Not everyone have equal access to these things.
In most countries, you're provided public education free of charge from the government. More entrepreneurs in America came from public education than private schools or otherwise. Some people possess the innate skills to become entrepreneurs and most don't. But as I said before, Humans are inherently unequal.

>Most people cannot afford to take the kind of financial risk required to start a mining enterprise.
Nobody can "afford" to take a financial risk. That's why it's called a risk. More often than not, people lose literally everything they have when trying to start a business of their own; and even if they manage to start an enterprise, most businesses fail within the first few years of their creation. The people who end up immensely wealthy were smart and resourceful enough to not only start a business and have it survive the Darwinist nature of the market, but grew it to the point that it thrived.

>>2321614
This may come as a shock red, but it turns out that dying if you don't expend energy to gather resources to sustain yourself is actually just a part of life and not "oppression".

>>2312575
Did they commit genocide because of supremacy autism that is inherent to the communist ideaology(like the nazis)
Or for political reasons.
Yeah, communists have committed genocide, but genocide isn't inherent to communism like in the case of the nazis. It was an authoritarian state seeking to accomplish communism by arbitrary control, fuck off with this shallow interpretation of yours.
Arson is an intentional goal
forest fires happen because of probability and environmental conditions.
Both have the same result

>>2321058
>>2321614
If you can offer a good or service to the market that will generate wealth, then you don't need to sell your labor for a wage. It's really not that hard to comprehend.

>>2321625
>three nutjob "Crusader" LARPers planning to blow up an apartment complex
and did they do it?
No.
Why?
because they were LARPers.
Do you know what LARPing is?

>>2321664
>but genocide isn't inherent to communism like in the case of the nazis.
If genocide isn't inherent to communism it sure as shit isn't inherent to Nazism. Do you even know what the goals of Nazism were?

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>>2311434
>Putin: Soviet Government Was Mostly Jewish 80-85%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIeYoF1VhHc

>Winston Churchill exposes forces behind Communism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNcERXGcpEY

The Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party:

Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian
Ulyanov (Lenin) JEW
Bronstein (Trotsky) JEW
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) JEW
Lourie (Larine) JEW
Ouritski JEW
Volodarski JEW
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) JEW
Smidovitch JEW
Sverdlof (Yankel) JEW
Nakhamkes (Steklof) JEW

The Council of the People’s Commissars:

Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Ulyanov (Lenin) JEW
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) JEW
Food Schlichter JEW
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) JEW
State Control Lander JEW
State Lands Kauffman JEW
Works V. Schmidt JEW
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) JEWess
Religions Spitzberg JEW
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) JEW
Hygiene Anvelt JEW
Finance Isidore Goukovski JEW
Press Volodarski JEW
Elections Ouritski JEW
Justice I. Steinberg JEW
Refugees Fenigstein JEW
Refugees (assist.) Savitch JEW
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski JEW

>>2321667
They didn't do it because they got caught.

>>2321262
It's not okay to murder somebody because they call you a Nazi

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>>2321755
>Churchill's War by David Irving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLloM6ufVgk

>Churchill was financed during the "wilderness years" between 1930 and 1939 by a slush fund emanating from a secret pressure group known as the Focus. The Focus was financed by a slush fund set up by some of London's wealthiest businessmen -- principally, businessmen organized by the Board of Jewish Deputies in England, whose chairman was a man called Sir Bernard Waley Cohen. Further details of Churchill's financing by the Czechs, as well as the facts of Churchill's financial rescue by a wealthy banker of Austro-Jewish origins, Sir Henry Strakosch, who emerged out of the woodwork of the City of London. When Churchill was bankrupted overnight in the American stock market crash of 1937-1938, it was Strakosch who was instrumental in setting up the central banks of South Africa and India, who bought up all Churchill's debts. When Strakosch died in 1943, the details of his will, published in the London Times, included a bequest of £20,000 to the then Prime Minister, eliminating the entire debt.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p498_okeefe.html

>From 1800 to 1947, the House of (((Sassoon))) controlled most of the trade within India: banking, trading, shipping, insurance etc., from their Mumbai headquarters... But the House of (((Sassoon)))’s handled the trading in opium and other goods in India. House of (((Openheimers)))/Rhodes handled the gold and diamond mining business. The American operations were handled by the House of Rockefellers, (((Seagrams))), (((Sassoons))), (((Japhets))), Jardine – Mathesons etc. The Houses of (((Rothschilds))) and (((Warburgs))) coordinated the banking aspect of this trade.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12909-rothschild

>>2321673
Yeah facism with racial supremacy interpreted from social Darwinism.
Exterminating the the inferiors came directly from that, the holocaust was motivated by nazi ideology.
Soviet genocides were motivated by political control.

>>2318762
>but that doesn't stop people from treating it as if it is
now this is just persecution complex
right wing populism is present and fairly popular in every country, more so than communism atm

>>2321755
Lenin was 1/4 Jewish and probably didn't know it

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>>2321797
Soviet genocides absolutely were motivated by ethnic hatred.

Karl Marx was a Jew and surrounded himself with jews. 80% of the Soviet government were Jews, 90% of the gulag commandants. 90% of German communists were Jews. Everywhere from Eastern Europe to the USA communism has been a Jewish conspiracy beyond any reasonable proportion. It was invented by Jews and benefits no one but Jews, which is why it's almost exclusively a Jewish conspiracy. It is designed to impose equality for Jews by killing national elites and the nation state, asset stripping the economy, and replace national culture, especially Christianity, with Marxism. It is the ideological expression of Jewish consciousness, a reflex of the Jewish survival instinct and the ultimate revenge for 2,000 years of persecution, ghettoisation, expulsions and pogroms by white Christians.

Do you think when the Jew Yarov Yurovsky butchered the Tsar's little girls he did it out of a sense of revolutionary fervour? Socialistic justice? Political expediency? Or 2,000 years of pure pent-up racial hatred? When he heard the sigh of their last little girl breaths with their little girl blood spattered over his Jewish beard, do you think he felt a sense of vengeance for all the persecution, ghettoisation, expulsions and pogroms of his people at the hands of white Christians?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Yurovsky

>>2321673

>Do you even know what the goals of Nazism were?

Do you?

>>2321835
so unless you subscribe to the "dude communism is a giant jew conspiracy" theory this whole discussion is pointless?
ok

>>2321607
So how does wealth get redistributed then?
Magic?
What exactly do you think a communist revolution entails dipshit?

>>2321762
The leftie assaulted him because he -mistakenly- thought HE was a Nazi when he wasn't, and was shot when the other defended himself.

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>>2321841
Are you claiming that communism wasn't a Jewish conspiracy? When it was invented by a Jew and his Jew friends? When the first Soviet government was 80% Jews? When the leaders of the German communist revolution were 90% Jews? The entire leadership of the original communists were almost exclusively Jews. Why should we call it anything other than a Jewish conspiracy?

>>2321797
>Yeah facism with racial supremacy interpreted from social Darwinism.
None of that equals mandating genocide.
>Nazi genocides committed to maintain political control were directly motivated by Nazi ideology
>Communist genocides committed to maintain political control weren't though somehow
Protip: any actions you take to maintain "poltical control" are by necessity ideologically driven as politics is ideology in action.

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>>2321794

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>>2321884

>>2321839
Yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

>>2321868
I'm claiming I have no interest in discussing the place of nazism and communism in the public eye with a literal nazi propagandist

>>2321893
Yet you'll turn a blind eye to all the literal communist propagandists in this thread.

>>2321899
actually you don't know that bb

>>2321911
I highly doubt you get as agitated by the communists you see in real life as you do at the idea of Nazis hypothetically existing somewhere..

>>2321888

You're implying that Hitler's actions perfectly lined up with the platform that he ran for office with, and that's blatantly not the case.

>>2321927
doubt all you want
I'm not surprised your idea of what forming an opinion consists of is throwing around unsubstantiated claims.

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>>2311434
This is why OP.
>>2321755
>>2321794
>>2321884
>>2321887
Forget about Poland, British imperialist interests, petty French revanchism. WW2 was about Jews. You will never understand the Western WW2 narrative until you start thinking about it from a Jewish perspective.

Why do you think all you ever hear about is the Holocaust? Why is Hitler "the most evil man in history" when, even if you take what is alleged of the Nazis at face value, even his contemporaries Stalin and Mao were objectively worse criminals? When for all the war crimes imputed of the Nazis, the Allies collectively committed far greater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUt-yxJODxI&t=4330s

>>2321936
Well if you honestly do congratulations on seeing the world for what it is I guess.
I've followed a weird path of hating Nazis>realizing Communists are just as bad as Nazis and should be hated too>realizing that Communists are literally EVERYWHERE>hating Nazis less than Communists because Nazis effectively don't exist while Communists operate without challenge in modern society

>>2321525
>Even though Germany is made up of the exact same Germans that made up Nazi Germany.
That's irrelevant, though. We are talking about continuity of states, not nations.

>Nazis remained in power during the transition to the new German government.
If they had, it would have been out of pragmatic reasons and it would be muffled.

>Back in 1991 Russia had 2 options: Reestablish historical continuity with 1917 Russian Empire or become legal succesor of the USSR. Remarkably Boris Yeltsin had understood the possible implications of such choices. In his memoirs, having explained the reasons for an actual choice made by Russian leadership, he then mused what would happen had the Russian state chosen to continue legacy of Imperial Russia, Yeltsin suggested it would be an entirely different country, living according to a different set of laws that would give power to the personality, not the state. And he added tellingly: "The outside world would have treated us differently too"
"After the Sovier empire: Legacies and Pathways" by Sven Eliaeson

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>>2321951

>When for all the war crimes imputed of the Nazis, the Allies collectively committed far greater.

Objectively wrong.

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>>2321893
>RAYCIS NAZI DAS RAYCIS
I'm not a Nazi and that's not an argument. All I am interested in is truth. What have I said that's untrue?

>>2321930
So in other words National Socialism has never been tried before, and we shouldn't let the actions of a few bad actors ruin a perfectly legitimate ideology.
:3

>>2321961
>believing Soviet statistics, when we know full well from records after the fall of communism that they killed tens of millions of there own people without it appearing in population statistics at the time

>>2321962
Someone who would call Uljanov a jew in capital letters is interested in anything but truth, so fuck of with your zhidposting and return to the cesspit you crawled from.

>>2321957
Irrelevant as Putin has clearly attempted to model his state as a successor to the Russian Empire.

>>2321966

You could cut down the Soviet civilian deaths to 1/3 the reported number and it would still be greater than the civilian deaths for all the Axis nations combined.

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>>2321965
What was Scandinavia before mass immigration if it wasn't national socialist? They share the same fate as Germany incidentally, just by different means.

>Norway is the best place to live in the world, according to the UN
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-best-places-to-live-in-the-world-is-norway-according-to-the-un-s-human-development-report-a6773891.html

>Top three best countries to live in 2016: Norway, Sweden, Denmark
https://lifestyle9.org/worlds-best-country-to-live-in-2013/3/

>>2321972
Yes, they claim both Russian Empire and SSSR as they consider them episodes of "Historical Russia".

Also sauce

>>2321981
>What was Scandinavia before mass immigration if it wasn't national socialist?
Republics and monarchies with social democracy as the leading ideology?

>>2321954
People defending soviet atrocities as "not ideological" ITT are braindead pinkos. Of course they were permitted by ideology. You can allow yourself the worst when you see yourself as a simple cog of a necessary historical process.

But the whole premise of the thread is itself retarded. What the fuck sort of country do you live in that somehow sovietism isn't shown as a murderous regime in popular culture?

Soljenitsyne was 43 years ago. It take a special kind of persecution complex to imagine that somehow Soviet Russia or the Khmer Rouges are shown with a positive light in our culture. So yeah, anybody making that claim is probably a nazi sympathizer in the first place, the whole "neutrality" angle is pure hypocrisy.

>>2321962
>nazi propaganda
>picture of Marx with a yellow star
>"I'm not a nazi though :^)"

>>2321984
So in other words you think Russia should have it's cake and eat it too, but Nazi Germany magically is not an "episode of Historic Germany".

>>2321997
Russia has two (a bit rotten) cakes on display to show how great they are and is eating another cake with corpus of the second cake and frosting of the first

Germany has a spoopy scary skellington cake hidden in a closet, that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the cake they are eating now

>>2321980
Think about it like this. The Nazis killed less than a million Western Allies in all theatres throughout the entire war. Is it reasonable to believe that they killed anywhere remotely near 25 million Soviets?

Consider that we found out AFTER the fall of communism from the Soviets' own archives that they killed (let's call it) tens of millions of their own people that never appeared in their censuses at the time. Just to illustrate my point, this is the first result from google for "soviet deaths."

>In his book, “Unnatural Deaths in the U.S.S.R.: 1928-1954,” I.G. Dyadkin estimated that the USSR suffered 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" during that period, with 34 to 49 million directly linked to Stalin.

>In “Europe A History,” British historian Norman Davies counted 50 million killed between 1924-53, excluding wartime casualties.

>Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev, a Soviet politician and historian, estimated 35 million deaths.

>In his acclaimed book “The Great Terror: Stalin’s Purge of the Thirties,” Anglo-American historian Robert Conquest said: “We get a figure of 20 million dead [under Stalin], which is almost certainly too low and might require an increase of 50 percent or so.”

How easy would it have been to blame these deaths on the Nazis for a regime that were notorious propagandists, fraudsters and liars with no respect for historical or any other kind of truth? And known to make up population statistics to hide their own crimes?

>>2321835
There were no Soviet genocides. If the Soviet Union was just a ploy to kill Russians, they did a horrible job of it.

>>2321992
Still not a single argument. I'm not a Nazi. There isn't even a remotely Nazi-like party in my country. I have absolutely nothing to gain from these posts except amusement.

Was or was not Karl Marx a Jew? Were 80% of the Soviet government and 90% of gulag commandants not Jews? Were 90% of the German communists not Jews?

Do you think none of this is relevant to questions of ethnic Jewish politics, just like Nazism is relevant to ethnic German politics? What is communism but Jewish national socialism, except instead of Jews being the victims, it was white Christians in their own country?

What is it exactly that you are disputing?

>>2322017

>Is it reasonable to believe that they killed anywhere remotely near 25 million Soviets?

Yes. It's completely reasonable. Like I said, you could cut down the reported soviet numbers to 1/3 the reported figure and it would still dwarf the numbers for all the Axis countries combined.

>>2322017
>The Nazis killed less than a million Western Allies in all theatres throughout the entire war. Is it reasonable to believe that they killed anywhere remotely near 25 million Soviets?
You forgot Poland!
Don't forget Poland!
pls

>>2322017
Sorry, forgot link.

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kill-1111789

>>2322034
>Were 80% of the Soviet government and 90% of gulag commandants not Jews? Were 90% of the German communists not Jews?
No, where did you've got that?

>>2322034
Gee, I wonder why an oppressed people would be more likely to embrace a liberating ideology that abolishes religious and national hierarchies

>>2321992
>What the fuck sort of country do you live in that somehow sovietism isn't shown as a murderous regime in popular culture?
Ah but that's the rub.
You're doing exactly what I'm complaining about. You acknowledge that the Soviet Union and the Khmer Rouge were monstrous but somehow you treat that monstrousness as if it's completely unrelated to the fact that they were Marxists, and less fanatical variants of Marxist derived dogma should be given a pass and treated as harmless. All of right-wing populist politics gets rolled up into a big ball called Nazis and blamed for the Holocaust amd anybody who even SLIGHTLY adheres to similar politics is the next Hitler, but Bernie Sanders is "just a social democrat".

Can you imagine the internet lighting up in support with #punchacommie hashtags if some red neck rushed on stage and punched Bernie Sanders in the face? Of course not.
Why?
because we let Communists operate unimpeded in our countries and have allowed them to practically seize control of the social narrative.

>>2322051
Bernie Sanders IS just a social democrat

He calls himself a socialist to seem new and unique but doesn't give a shit about worker ownership of industry

>>2322051
Richard Spencer advocates genocide regularly. That isn't remotely comparable to Bernie Sanders, and you know it.

>>2322035
No it's not. There are three points.

1) We now know that the Soviets killed far more than 25 million of their own people during this time.

2) These deaths did not appear on Soviet population statistics at the time.

3) The Soviets, already caught lying about population statistics in 2), accused the Germans of killing 2,500% more Russians than British, French and Americans combined.

Give me one good reason why I should believe the Soviets' reported number considering all this and not simply conclude that they blamed their own crimes on the Nazis. It is the most rational thing to do.

>>2322050
Exactly. Communism is Jewish and that is precisely their motive.

>>2322061

And you're still ignoring the fact that even if the Soviets literally TRIPLED the numbers, you'd still have a much higher number of civilian deaths for Allied nations and than Axis Nations. Hell, you could completely remove the Soviets from the chart and the Allies would still have far more civilian deaths.

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>>2322061
>they blamed their own crimes on the Nazis
We have an extremely famous example as precedent of this related by Pat Buchanan, President Reagan's chief advisor.

>For it was Polish defiance of Adolf Hitler's demand to negotiate the return of Danzig, a German town put under Polish control after World War I, that gave birth to the Hitler-Stalin Pact, which led to Katyn.

>After the German invasion on Sept. 1, 1939, ignited the war, Joseph Stalin attacked Poland from the east on Sept. 17, capturing much of the Polish officer corps.

>In April 1940, on Stalin's order, the Soviet Secret Police, the NKVD, murdered virtually the entire leadership of the nation, including 8,000 officers and near twice that number of intellectuals and civilian leaders. Some 4,000 were shot with their hands tied behind their backs in Katyn Forest.

>The Germans unearthed the bodies in 1943 and invited the Red Cross in to examine the site. Through newspapers found on the corpses, the date of the atrocity was fixed as more than a year before the German Army invaded the Soviet Union.

>When Polish patriots, whose sons had flown with the Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, went to Winston Churchill to demand that he get answers from Stalin about the atrocity, he brushed them off.

>"There is no sense prowling around the three-year-old graves of Smolensk," said the Great Man.

>At Stalin's request, Churchill bullied the Poles into acceding to Soviet annexation of all the Polish land Stalin had been awarded for signing his pact with Hitler.

>At the Nuremberg trials, the Russian delegation, led by Andrei Vishinsky, the prosecutor who did Stalin's dirty work in the purge trials, charged the Germans with the massacre.

>This presented a problem for the Americans and British who knew the truth. They finessed the issue by leaving the charge unresolved.

>Katyn and 'The Good War' by Pat Buchanan
http://m.townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2010/04/13/katyn_and_the_good_war

>>2322014
>nothing to do with the cake they are eating now
I disagree.
I think it's the same cake just with most of the scary skeleton decorations clumsily scraped off and hidden under a napkin.

"Hey Dieter why does your cake have a bunch of smooshed skulls on it?"
"They are not skulls they are marzipan! There are no skulls here anymore!"
"but the cake is in the shape of a sku"
"NEIN"

>>2322059
>Richard Spencer advocates genocide regularly.
Where?

>>2322073
They didn't just triple it my friend. Tens of millions is already 20 million+. The Jews had as much as three times that number of Russian Orthodox corpses to hide.

>>2322057
"Social Democrats" are pinkos and just a baby step towards normalizing socialism and eventually communism.

>>2322078
>Vergangenheitsbewältigung
>Nuremberg trials

But I am not really interested in 3R to BRD/DDR transition tbhef.

>>2322083

Even if you completely removed the Soviet Union from the chart, you'd still have far more civilian deaths in Allied nations.

>>2322077
What does it have to do wth the Buchanan guy?

>>2321868
Explain why Marx wrote against Jews "On the Jewish Question"

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>>2322091
Take a look at this chart of the reported death counts from the alleged death camp of Majdanek. Note what happened after the collapse of communism. The number got revised downwards to exactly 1/25th that of the number the Soviets originally reported at their first museum of Nazi atrocity propaganda. 1/25. 25 million. Coincidence?

>>2322117
To create plausible deniabilty and allow people like you a fig-leaf to hide the Jewish nature of Communism.
:^)

>>2322124

You're deliberately ignoring the fact that even if you completely removed the Soviet Union from the chart, you'd still have far more civilian deaths in Allied nations.

>>2322085
As a communist, I wish that was true

Social democrats are just capitalists who think the government should do nice things

>>2322124
>Evading facts by posting unrelated bs.

Shameful display

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>>2322117
Did atheism stop him being ethnically Jewish? Did it stop him from noticing that, when he came up with his theory of history, for the previous 2,000 years his ethnicity had been persecuted, ghettoised, expelled and pogromed by white Christians? Did this have no effect on his consciousness or ideology?

>>2322067
No, communism is for everyone. Its popularity among Jews, African Americans, indigenous Mexicans, and Kurds should be totally unsurprising.

>>2322127
>>2322135
Not from German actions you don't. What the Allies did to Germany was no better than what Germany was accused of, and in my opinion far worse with longer lasting consequences. There were no good guys in WW2. Certainly not us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUt-yxJODxI&t=4330s

>>2322136
>Did atheism stop him being ethnically Jewish?
Kind of

>Did this have no effect on his consciousness or ideology?
No

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>>2322146
Maybe those people should try their little social experiment in their own countries first. Civilisation was doing just fine without them.

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>>2322153

>>2322130
See that's the thing.
You're a Communist, so counter-intuitively you're the last person who should be asked about what is and is not communism. To a Communist nothing that is not his specific brand of Communist thought is actually Communism.

To an outsider though it's obvious that Social Democrats are just the gate-way drug tothe normalization of anti-capitalist rhetoric and harder forms of leftism. A Social Democrat will feel obligated to speak out against "fascism" and "no platform" right-wing thought, but will have no problem with rabid revolutionary communists teaching in universities.

>>2322107
He's a respected authoritative source. One that you could hardly call a "nazi propagandist." Pat Buchanan is a very nice man. :^)

>>2322152
>What the Allies did to Germany was no better than what Germany was accused of, and in my opinion far worse with longer lasting consequences.

>1/4 Belarus murdered
>6M Jews murdered
>5M murdered Poles
>500K murdered Yugos
>170K murdered Greeks

Oh well, sometimes I forget that Slavic and Jewish lifes don't matter.

>>2322051
comparing social democrats to soviets is like comparing reactionary right wingers to nazis. Socialism existed before Marx.
Actual communist parties are dead and buried in most of the first world. They WERE accused of being in cahoot with the soviets and it killed them. The Stalin-card calling you want to see did exist, it's just that it was played out 40-30 years ago, with great success. The remainder of the left did large efforts to distance themselves from the soviets. Even the remaining commies are probably the ones making the larger volume of critique of ideology toward soviet communism.

Reactionary right wings are doing fairly well however. Nazis obviously aren't, but they did nothing to distance themselves from the 3rd Reich.

>>2322179
>believing these numbers when you have every reason itt to doubt them
History is written by the victors.

>>2322183
>Literal footage of Nazis bulldozing mounds of emaciated bodies
>lol Holohoax didn't happen

Neo-Nazis everyone.

>>2322179

Your full of shit. Nobody here buys the 6MillionTM Jews killed. Also what about the 7million Ukrainians starved or shot to death by Communists? What about the Soviet rapes of German women? What about the fact that Communists killed their civilians and attributed their deaths to ww2 casualties?

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>>2322166
The world has always been absolutely terrible for the vast majority of people. Chinese life expectancy was only 40 in 1950. By the end of Mao's life, it had risen to the middle 60s.

20th century abortive socialisms offered the only framework for development not predicated on the exploitation of the third world. Even though socialism in China and Russia regressed to capitalism, socialism enormously improved the standard of living and ability to project power of these countries.

>>2322183
its one thing to know somethings where fudged and taking the numbers with a grain of salt, its entirely another for their to be literally mountains of evidence supporting them, with video footage to i witness accounts.

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>>2322181
You think all those marxists just disappeared? Look at American universities. All the BLMs, women's marches and anti-Milo riots. Look at all those (((neocons))). All Jewish ex-Trots. Look who is funding the Democrats.

>Hedge fund billionaire George Soros is the biggest spender among donors on the index, giving almost $11.9 million to Clinton’s cause.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-26/billionaire-donors-led-by-soros-simons-favor-clinton-over-trump

>>2322205
so the numbers are wrong when they dont help push your agenda?

>>2322205

>Soviet crimes instantly absolve Nazi Germany of all guilt

>>2322211
Yeah. Because he murdered 45 million of his own people, so there were more hospital beds.

>>2322215
George Soros was a literal Nazi collaborator who sold out his fellow Jews than collected their valuables. It's how he started his initial wealth.

I highly doubt a billionaire and Nazi collaborator is a Marxist.

>>2322183
I walk everyday by the plaques honoring of innocents mudered by Nazis
I walk everyday by relics of Jewish people yet I see no Jews
On my shelf I have dozens of novels written of authors murdered by Nazis
I can see my Gramps throwing a fit when someone mentiones WW2 and Germans in TV
When talking with old people about WW2 I hear about Nazis murdering people everytime

You can push this shite to an American, but not to a Slav.

>>2322181
>comparing social democrats to soviets is like comparing reactionary right wingers to nazis

My point is that's exactly what Social Democrats do though while expressing umbrage when people call them communists. Hence how much fuss is raised about taking a stand against the normalization of "white supremacy", while no one bats an eye at the normalization of anticapitalist rhetoric in pop culture.

I'm sorry but as long as right wing ideologues are treated as if they have made no effort to distance themselves from Hitler I refuse to pretend that Leftists are somehow deserving of being treated with greater nuance for distancing themselves from Pol Pot. Especially when they're marching in the streets demanding the overthrow of my nation and culture and assaulting anyone that opposes them. If a conservative is a fascist and therefore an evil Nazi, then a liberal is a socialist and therefore a barbaric Red.

>>2322195
Except there are no photos of that. There are photos of the Allies bulldozing starved and typhus-diseased prisoners at camps on the margins of a country that had spent the previous year undergoing total societal collapse. And by the way, thousands of autopsies were performed on those corpses. No evidence of genocide was ever found. Only typhus and starvation.

>As part of a US War Crimes Investigation Team, Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German camps, examining on some days more than 100 corpses. After his grim work at Dachau, he was questioned for three days by US Army prosecutors.
>Dr. Larson’s findings? In a 1980 newspaper interview he said: “What we’ve heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax.” And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he “was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theatre” of Allied military operations, confirmed that “never was a case of poison gas uncovered.”
https://20thcenturytruth.wordpress.com/allied-forensic-autopsies-confirm-disease-not-gas/

>>2322230
He's an anti-white Jew. That's literally all Marxism quintessentially is.

>>2322215
Soros? The guy who gave millions to anti-communist resistance?

>>2322195
>Nazis bulldozing bodies
This is bait.

>>2322216
>>2322217

Nazi Germany wasnt even close to as bad as Soviet Union was. Yes there was war atrocities committed by them but the fact remains that Commie scum killed alot more people but you dont see hollywood movies depicting them as bad and when all we hear is Auschwitz! Gas chambers! overs! when in reality those didnt exist at all.

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>>2322233
Wherever we push this shite and free speech still lives, we win the debate my friend. Soon, when the war generation is dead, emotive arguments won't cut it in public anymore.

>>2322211
>socialisms offera the illusion of framework for development not predicated on the exploitation of the third world.
ftfy
There aren't enough resources on earth to raise the entire world up to first world levels.

>>2322258
>Wherever we push this shite and free speech still lives, we win the debate my friend.

This is /his/, your kind always loses here.

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>>2322268
>your kind always loses
I'm sure that seems very real in your mind.

>>2322268

/his/ isnt one person. most of /his/ agrees that Communism was just as evil if not more then Nazism. Antifa and the sort are the real Nazis of today.

>>2322287
>/his/ isnt one person. most of /his/ agrees that Communism was just as evil if not more then Nazism
lolno

>>2322258
Yes "shower" rooms where the pipes to shower heads were for gas and there is scratch marks on the walls.

>>2322238
Stop insulting Dr. Larson, faggot.

His findings were that "relatively low number of examine victims were killed in such manner (gassed)"

>>2322302

did you look at the thread? literally everyone on /his/ hates communism

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>>2322303
How long does it take a Soviet soldier to put scratch marks in a wall?

1:06:22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDsJtB2F9i8

Longer than it takes to reconstruct an air raid shelter to look like a gas chamber?

23:16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQjNs-Ght8s&t=122s

You might be interested in what David Cole has to say. His interview on Red Ice with Lana Lokteff is one of the best summaries of holocaust revisionist arguments I've see. He's Jewish and from California btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxAvpvz_4wQ&t=125s

>>2322315
>literally everyone on /his/ hates communism
So do I, yet the consensus is that Nazism was the bigger evil. This thread is about challenging the consensus.

/his/torically correct stance, though would be that measure evil in history is pointless and such disscusions will only lead to increased diffusion of /pol/ and /int, thus lowering boards quality even lower.

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>>2322313
>“What we’ve heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax.”
>“never was a case of poison gas uncovered.” >>2322238
>t. Dr Larson
It's not an insult. Dr Larson was an American professional who respected truth. The Soviet hoax is the insult. An insult to the memory of the Jews who suffered during WW2. Their true story is buried under mountains of lies by propagandists and opportunists.