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There are, classically and historically, several different religious traditions that have fallen under the label of Islam. And I don't simply mean the legal schools or the Sunni-Shi'a divide, but subcultures. You have the aforementioned legal tradition, itself split into the imperialist and the antinomian schools of thought. You have the aristocracy, the upper class of Islamic societies throughout the ages whose practice of religion differed substantially from the commoners, the masses made up of the lower classes of Islamic society. And you have the border culture, those who live on the theoretical edge of Islamdom and find meaning and purpose in raids and conflict with everyone around them.
The debate between whether Islam is a religion of peace or not seems to me a modern battle between followers (and their non-Muslim supporters/detractors) of two of the above traditions over which is the 'true' Islam. In times past these conflicts were subdued thanks to segregation, both natural and man-made, but today the rise of the modern state, communications, and travel has forced them all together. Thus for those who faithfully profess they are Muslim and their faith is a religion of peace, if they're not just signaling for whatever reason, they mean to say that they themselves are a nonviolent person who comes from an Islamic background of some kind, and are attempting to define their belief as the right and correct, and maybe only, Islam. Meanwhile those who believe they are Muslim and are violent are much the same, only theirs is a tradition of expansionism, imperialism, and so on, and they push their own views as the one true form of Islam.
The difference is less religious and more cultural. Like the difference between an American liberal from a bustling city and an American conservative from a small town.
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>mfw I thought this was uncharacteristically level headed for a /his/ post, but then recognize it's my own from a while back.
Didn't think anyone would save it. Thanks OP.
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what difference does it make Islam or no there are an awful lot of mean spirited low IQ brown people out there stuck in the stone age aggressively expanding and being funded by rich Saudis
nexxxxxt
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>>2296789
I found it in my /his/ folder, totally forgot I saved it even, but though it was relevant to discuss now. I'm just interested in hearing people debate, and my field isn't in the humanities so I wouldn't exactly be able to craft a good argument about the topic.
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>>2296862
*thought
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>>2296675
Does this then imply, that saying islam is a religion of peace is implicitly defining it, therefore restricting the religious freedom of those that have other interpretations?
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>>2296675
Okay, so heres the thing.
When it comes to the current conflict between the West and Islam, it IS cultural. Not religious. Liberals often point to the fact that some Muslim terrorist drank beer therefore isn't a "true muslim." The problem is that it isn't about being a 100% practicing muslim all the time, its about being Muslim in character. Pic related.
The Western world is culturally secular, while nominally Christian. This really took in the 1960s, before then the West was a mix of being culturally Christian and secular.
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Wasn't it George Bush who came up with that 'religion of peace' line?
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>>2297038
If it is, more proof liberals are blind fools.
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>>2296675
>it's less religious and more cultural
That's how I've been looking at it for some time now, ever since I took an intercultural communication class 3 years ago (studying linguistics at uni). While cultures can cross borders, people from the same nation will be culturally more similar than 2 people from different nations.
Some of the interviews and articles I've seen regarding the refugee crisis have only reinforced this. There was one in particular, shortly after the Cologne happening. A refugee from some mountain village was asked his opinion, and explained that he understood entirely why something like this might happen. He himself had never seen a woman's uncovered head before coming to Europe. It's a complete shock for some of them.
In the West we're often raised with this idea that all cultures, all people are essentially the same, that throwing them together can only cause good things. However, this severely underestimates how deeply ingrained some aspects of culture are.
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>>2298414
That's just a part of it, and usually has little to do with the jihadist angle of the problem. For those that expressly hate the West and are on a mission from God to attack it, it's more psychological than either cultural or religious, which in turn pushes them into a pastiche ideology combining culture and religion in a unique way distinct from either as is traditionally seen in the Middle East.
The cultural divide I was referring to is mostly between Muslims themselves rather than Muslims and non-Muslims.
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