Could Mongols in their prime beat 18th century French, Prussian

>>2292989
no

Square formation.

>>2292989
Advanced gunpowder artillery made horse archers dead, so no.

>>2292989
>Could Mongols in their prime beat 18th century French, Prussian or British army?

They couldn't even beat the pooinloos in the 14th century, what do you expect.

a single canister volley would sort them out

>>2292989

They couldn't even beat the Polish.

Some mongols, tartars or some shit actually fought a french army during one of Napoleons battles in Russia
They proved absolutely useless

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>>2293154

>this is what husars actually believe

>>2293162

You need to read up on happened in Poland during the Third Invasion senpai, they never returned.

>>2292989
No. Machine guns rendered cavalry obsolete.

Would would win out of the British Navy during the Victoria era teaming up with the Mongols under Genghis versus North Korea today?

>>2293388

depends, which version of civ are you playing?

>>2293380
>machine guns
>18th century

>>2292989
There's a reason why the eternal steppnigger became irrelevant right around the time that gunpowder appeared.

Look at Russia killing the Golden horde.

>>2293394
I missed the 18th century bit. The Mongols could still get stomped since the Europeans have muskets and advanced cannons.

this is a stupid thread because russian gunpowder armies are exactly what defeated the horsefuckers in the first place so obviously the more advanced gunpowder armies would perform even better.

>>2293403
You are a retard, the Song dynasty had gunpowder and the Mongols fielded gunners.

>>2293576
see: Russian conquest of the steppes

>>2293585
Ever notice how the mongolaboos utterly ignore actual history? It's honestly fascinating.

>>2293216

They got smashed by a scouting get party that wasn't even there to fuck shit up.

>>2292989
Napoleon's army had to deal with the tatars while going to Russia. The latter were ridiculously destroyed.

http://in.rbth.com/arts/2014/07/29/how_russias_steppe_warriors_took_on_napoleons_armies_37029

>>2293629
>third
You need to learn to read.

>scouting party meme
Consider suicide.

No, technology is a powerful thing.

>>2293648

>get butt fucked by 10k Mongols during the first invasion
>get butt fucked by 30k Mongols during the second invasion
>finally beat the Mongols who are relying heavily on allies for manpower

>>2293648
>meme

But it's not a meme you dip.

>>2293679
Except for the part where it is.

>>2293761
>small scout force there to scout
>BTFOs everyone in their path
>le it was just a meme XDD

They literally btfo an army in a battle and just moved on, kept scouting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Pyramids

>>2293576
You know who also had gunpowder? The Qing, who absolutely devastated the Mongols.

>>2293766
>scout
No. The mongols were in europe to fucking conquer, and said as much.

>>2293773

They came back indeed, but left because the Khan died.

>>2293002
/thread

>>2293773

That wasn't that specific detachments purpose.....

>>2292989
Yes, but most likely only in a Rorke's Drift or Khartoum scenario.
>implying Mongols wouldn't just pick up guns like the American Indians/Mahdists

>>2293781
That myth has been debunked repeatedly.

>>2293786
>>implying Mongols wouldn't just pick up guns like the American Indians/Mahdists

They did anyway. We call it the Mughal Empire.

>>2293793

How so?

>>2293812
The mongols could not possibly have had word of the khans death in time for that to be the reason for them leaving.

>>2293812
Subutai dicked around in Russia for multiple months before going back

Will the Mongols be better if they had guns?

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>>2292989
NIGGER THE ENTIRE 18TH CENTURY WAS ABOUT CIVILIZED EMPIRES DESTROYING THE STEPPE WAY OF LIFE & MILITARY SUPREMACY FOREVER.

TURNS OUT HIGHLY ORGANIZED STANDING ARMIES WORKING WITH COMBINED ARMS, WITH *FIREARMS* AND *ARTILLERY* BTFO ARROW CHUCKING CUNTS ON PONIES
>Hey Romanov Russia, whatcha doin?
INVADING CENTRAL ASIA AND ELIMINATING THE LAST OF GENGHIZ KHAN'S SUCCESSOR STATES.
>Hey Qing China, whatcha doin?
OH NOTHING, GENOCIDING DZUNGARS AND SUBJUGATING THE MONGOLS WHOLE.
>Hey Safavid Persia, whatcha doin?
THESE UZBEKS ARE BEING CUTE WITH OUR BORDERS SO WE KILLED A FEW THOUSAND OF THEM AND THEY WENT BACK TO THEIR SHITHOLES.

AND GUESS WHAT? THE MONGOL WAY OF WAR- THE STEPPE WAY OF WAR- WAS STILL IN IT'S PRIME. AND IT DIDNT DO JACKSHIT AS KHANATES FELL ONE BY ONE AND SURVIVORS HAD TO KISS EITHER THE TSAR OR THE HUANGDI'S ASS.

NIGGA THEY DONT EVEN NEED THE EUROPEAN POWERS OF THE DAY: THEY WERE BEING BLOWN THE FUCK OUT BY "OLD EMPIRES."

>>2292989
Not a fucking chance

>>2294830
>being this much of an autist

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>>2294739
THEY DID. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DID WITH IT?
>HEHEHEHE IS JUST LIKE COMPOSITE BOW WE USE ON HORSEBACK. LET US USE IT ON HORSEBACK TOO
>*wiped out by infantry with muskets.*

>>2294830
based anon btfo'ing m*ngolaboos

>>2294830
an army of mounted archers of the 13th century could have defeated those armies

>>2294949
AN ARMY OF HORSE ARCHERS FROM THE 13TH CENTURY WAS EXACTLY THE ONE A RUSSIAN COSSACK/CHINESE BANNERMAN/SAFAVID TURKMAN HAD TO FIGHT. They barely changed: except this time some of them slung matchlocks.

>>2293216
They say rhe same shit about the 2nd invasion of Hungary, apparently 200k Mongols are a "scouting party" lmao. Mongols were just shit when facing white people other than Russians, who got skullfucked because of open terrain.

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>>2293154
But Poles have always been great warriors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmTdE29N5jI

>>2292989
Could Mordor in their prime beat 18 century French, Prussian or British army?

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>>2295010

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>>2293162
Winged hussars have the the best K/D ratio of any cavalry type in history

>>2292989
The Mongols had already trouble when people came up with proper armour, crossbows and fortifications.

ITT: retards

Mongols at PRIME
vs
18th century French, Prussian or British Army.

Not Mongols at their weakest.

Lets give some figures, France near the start of 18th century could potentially put around 400,000 men on field during war time. About 70K cavalry and 330K infantry.

British army in early 18th century had was composed of nearly 140K domestic soldiers and about 150K foreign soldiers.

Prussia in the early 18th century had roughly 40K soldiers. This slowly expanded to about 190K near end of 18th century.


Lets compare that to Mongols of the peak power. They controlled China, Middle East, all of central Asia, encroaching on to poland/hungary/russia/etc.

IF the mongol might is at peak, then they would be able to transfer resources between the key locations, in which case, Prussia being the closest would fall initially to Mongols. French might fall after Prussian. British would be the hardest given its long reach and naval superiority.

The mongol of the prime would have nearly limitless(relatively) amount of soldiers, resources, knowledge to take.

If mongols are to modernize fast enough, then they will take the cake.

>lmao lets just give horses and bows to thousands of random chinks turks and mongols across asia and throw 'em at muskets xdxD

>>2295113
>implying they could do anything against firearms and artillery

>>2295113
Kys stupid Mongol shill
One side has guns and cannons, the other is made up of bow legged yellow monkey men that fuck horses and use bows

>>2295125
>>2295123
Who do you think introduced the guns and cannons to the Europe?

Mongols of the prime would have guns, grenades, cannons, land lines, etc.

The main difference is stream lining of the technology between the two time lines.

>>2295135
land mines*

>>2295135
>Who do you think introduced the guns and cannons to the Europe?
Pretty much all relevant technology in that regard was invented by Europe. The firearms and artillery the mongols had was primitive in comparison with what people had in the 18th century - not to mention the tactics, drill, etc.
It shouldn't come as a surprise that people from the 12th - 13th century wouldn't do all that well against people from the future, with superior weaponry.

>>2293119
> couldn't even beat
Are you serious? The Mughals came from the Mongols and took over the Delhi Sultanate which was Muslim on the first place

>>2295154
Mongols were light years ahead of Europe in tactics, drills, etc.

Napoleon in late 18th century was the key person in introducing advanced tactics to Europe. Meanwhile Mongols had Subutai, and others operating OODA loop before it was a thing in the west by almost a millennia. Clausewitz the genius wouldn't be born until late 18th century.

So before the dramatic changes in military tactics, strategies, Europe would still be barely better than it was roughly few hundred years ago, interms of military strategy and tactics.

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>>2295113
Dude, the Mongol Military system was perfectly retained by successors and the rest of Central Asian peoples who meme the fuck out of this accomplishments and wants to be the next Great Khan. As it stood in the 1700s, they all had the shit that made Genghiz Khan gr8, and there WAS a great nomadic Khanate still in existence: the Dzungar Khanate, which was a subgroup of the Mongols.

Problem is: the world changed around them. And they got BTFO.

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Baron Marbot’s Encounter with Mounted Archers at Dresden and Liepzig, 1813
https://bowvsmusket.com/2015/02/27/baron-marbots-encounter-with-mounted-archers-at-dresden-and-liepzig-1813/

>I have never understood with what aim the Russian government brought from so far and at such great expense these masses of irregular cavalry, who having neither sabres nor lances nor any kind of firearm, were unable to stand up against trained soldiers, and served only to strip the countryside and starve the regular forces, which alone were capable of resisting a European enemy. Our soldiers were not in the least alarmed at the sight of these semi-barbarous Asiatics, whom they nick-named cupids, because of their bows and arrows.

It was a clever method of ethnic cleansing and reducing causalities among the regular army. They used poorly equipped men recruited from undesirable ethnic groups so that they will be annihilated in battle.

>>2295291
huh... maybe Germany will import more muslims and then draft them or something, sounds relatively smart

>>2295263
>all the scattered nomadic tribes of central asia had the resources and power of genghis khan
wut

The Dzungar Khanate fell mainly due to diseases, internal faction rivalry and finally the Qingz.

A subgroup cannot be by definition greater than the whole group.

>>2295291
19th century

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>>2295188
>The Mughals came from the Mongols and took over the Delhi Sultanate which was Muslim on the first place
Wrong. They came from the guys following Babur around. They came from multiple races but were mostly Turkics & Persinate cunts who were feudal liegemen of Babur back when he still had land in Transoxania. His army was multicultural, but united more under feudal loyalty and Islamic-Persianate mores and culture.

That said, Baburs despised the Mongols. This was the 1500s and basically everyone Muslim thought Mongs were the heathen barbarians who rekd Islam all those centuries ago. In addition, back when he still had land some of the raiders of his fief wouldve been Mongol. Furthermore Babur Identified as Timurid & a Muslim aristocrat, and disdained any connection with the Mongols.
>"Even if the Mongols were a race of angels, they would still be abominations. If their names were written in Gold it would be a filthy name."
>"Beware lest you pluck an ear from a Mongol field. For whatever is sown with Mongol seed has an odious yield."
From his fucking autobiography: the Baburnama.

>>2295311
But then you had the Four Oirats before that, which the Ming repeatedly threw back.

>>2295317
It's early 19th century. The jump in technology wasn't that huge between 1780 and 1810, so it's still an indicator of how a late 18th century army could have dealt with them. The point is 18th century European armies had lo0ts of guns. Asian Horde armies had lots of bows and few guns.

>>2292989
If the mongols had Napoleonic era technology and were in alliance with Napoleon could they have conquered Eurasia?

>>2295331
Technological jumps were increasingly becoming more common. The tech differences between 18th and 19th century would be lot more than 17 and 18th.

Trains, telephones, telegraphs, iron ships, electricity were a thing of the 19th century.

Warfare was fundamentally changed from early 18th century to early 19th century.

quick answer is no

>>2295350
>Warfare was fundamentally changed from early 18th century to early 19th century.
Hence why I compared late 18th to 19th century.

>>2295371
First this isn't late 18th century to early 19th century vs mongol prime

Its 18th century vs mongol prime

So your post is irrelevant regardless.

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>>2295113
Numbers don't matter, senpai
Pic related, 4,000 Frenchmen (well, actually only 1,500 for most of the day) managed to defeat 35,000 Turkish (and therefore Mongoloid) horsemen
Infantry square was a hell of a tactic

>>2295420
Should I have said there's only 1 single mongol and trillion armies of the europe of past future and present combined?

Would numbers matter then?

>>2293119

pooinloos != sikhs

Might want to study that for a minute.

>>2295470
Sikhs didnt exist in 14th century. Sikh founder wasn't even born until late 15th century.

You might want to read up on that.

>>2295420
>Anatolian Turks
>Mongoloid
Pick one