Why does the Gospel of John simultaneously deny and affirm the

>>2289094
What verses deny the trinity?

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>>2290066
>VERSES THAT DENIED TRINITY(1/2)

Jesus HIMSELF said:

John 14:48 :
...My Father is greater than I

John 10:29:
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all...

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing....

Johh 5:30 clearly implies Jesus does not possess the quality of God. God can do everything.

Matthew 24:36:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This verse is talking about doomsday. This clearly state that Jesus(Son) doesn't know when is doomsday. God know everything, but Jesus doesn't know everything.

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>>2290245
>>2290066
>VERSES THAT DENIED TRINITY(2/2)

Mark 10:18
"And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

Jesus, according to him, are not even worthy to be called good. Much less a god.

Mark 12:29
"Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.

The Trinity concept is refuted by Jesus.

John 5:31
"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.

If Jesus is god, then how come he CANNOT testify his own testimony?

Isaiah 11:2-3

2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the FEAR OF THE LORD
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD....

'God'(Jesus) fearing another God(Father)? Nonsense.

ACCORDING TO YOU CHRISTIANS, Jesus was begotten by God, which literally means he has a beginning. Thus he is not God, for God has no beginning.

Well, this is an interesting thread

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>>2290066
John 20:17
Jesus said, "....my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Jesus's Father and our Father? Are we the Son of God?

JESUS SAID "MY GOD". Which is totally NOT equal with the Father.

>>2290245
>>2290254
wtf I love Nestorianism now.

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>>2290066
>"WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT JESUS SAID? IT DOESNT MATTER! IT'S WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAID ABOUT HIM THAT MATTER, NOT JESUS"

Jesus said:

John 15:20
Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.'...

>>2290261
Anon, pls do read or maybe join in the discussion.

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>>2290245
>>2290254
>>2290269
expert cherrypicking, here's a (you)

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>>2290269
>>2290066
"WHO CARES ABOUT WHAT JESUS SAID!!!"

Fine, don't listen to Jesus. Listen to Peter, THE LEADER OF THE DISCIPLES, THE ROCK.

Peter said:

Acts 2:22
"Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a """""""MAN"""""""" accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

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>>2290278
This is all Jesus said. Not my words. Listen to him, he is your master.

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>>2290282
>he doesn't understand the concept of being fully divine while being fully human

>>2290282
Sometimes Jesus speaks as a man, sometimes he speaks as God. What now, muhammad?

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>>2290287
Yes exactly:

1 Corinthians 14:33
33 For God is not the author of confusion...

Which means that anything from is the majority can understand it. Which is certainly not the case.

Thus cannot be from God.

>>2290298
A equal refers to another equal as "My God"? (>>2290263)

>>2290287
Even if he is divine he still says over and again he's inferior to God.

>>2290301
When he is speaking as man, yes. Remember that Jesus was sent to be an example for men. He had to show them how to act, you can't do that if you act as Gods equal because you are. Jesus behaved as a man for your benefit, so you could learn and follow in his footsteps

>>2290298
Isn't he always speaking as a man and a god?

>>2290299
>>2290287
*anything from God

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>>2290299
>As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
aka be quiet you butt slut

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>it's a '/his/ argues poorly about theology and everyone is shamed' episode
& Humanities was a mistake

>>2290313
This weeb comes into every Christian thread and tries to argue Jesus was not divine.

>>2290309
>>2290306
>>2290314
As I thought, you anons can't even understand clear-cut straightfoward simple language, even a baby can understand.

What even more ironic, this is all from Jesus OWN mouth.

>>2290330
The problem is that the Bible is from Gods own mouth so trying to argue that any part is more authoritative than another is going to fail from the get go

>>2290331
What about the 7 books that is thrown out from the Roman Catholic Bible?

Those books are all from the Holy Spirit, thus from God. But why did Christians take it out?

>>2290338
Because Protestants are retarded

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>>2290340
Oh a Catholic? Nice. Then listen to Peter. You claim to have an unbroken chain of faith from Peter himself, and I respect that. Then listen to the Rock. (>>2290279)

Anon, if you look carefully, in Church teaching, you'll see that all the verse that says Jesus is divine are NOT JESUS WORDS, but instead the Epistles.

21 books out of 27 DOESNT have Jesus words in it. And Paul write more than half of the NT.

Don't you think it strange? Don't you think that all of these verse >>2290245, >>2290254, >>2290263, contradicts the Church very own teachings?

Jesus straight-out saying he is NOT god. Don't you think it's strange?

I say this again, who are you following? Your master? Or the Epistles?

>>2290299
>For God is not the author of confusion
Does this mean God didn't bury dinosaur bones and coordinate universal expansion just to confuse us and test our faith? Because if the universe seemed to look like the product of certain fundamental relationships and it was actually the product of a concious being, that would be pretty confusing.

>>2290409
2 Peter 1:1 “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”


John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,


John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.


John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

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>>2290417
No, what that verse implies is anything that is revealed to mankind. By no means it is implied to the universe. Jesus said:

John 14:24
...These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

So, it is clear what Jesus is NOT confusing, nor ambiguous.

>>2290477
*what Jesus said

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>>2290420
>2 Peter 1:1
Yes, I believe Jesus is the Savior. BY NO MEANS A SAVIOR IS A GOD.

>John 1:1
Not the words of Jesus

>John 5:23
Yes, I honor Jesus. Does me honoring someone means that I'm worshipping that someone as a God? No.

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>>2290420
>I AM
Now that "I am" in John 8:58 is "ego eimi". This 'ego eimi' is NOTHING SPECIAL. Because John the Baptist used the EXACT SAME greek in John 3:28:

"You yourselves testify that I said, '"""""""""""I am"""""""""""" not the Christ,' but, 'I have been sent before him.'"

and multiple place in the bible:

http://biblehub.com/greek/eimi_1510.htm

In Exodus, the greek word 'I AM WHO I AM' is not known. BUT you must agree that it's special right?

IF it's that special, then how come the EXACT SAME greek is used in both verse(John 8:58, 3:28)? And multiple times in the Bible?

So the "I am" in John 8:58 is nothing special.

Agree?

>>2290409
Paul literally never talked about what we know about Trinity on his epistles

>>2290561
All the more reason why Trinity is a fabrication.

>>2290498
>Yes, I believe Jesus is the Savior. BY NO MEANS A SAVIOR IS A GOD.
Read it again buddy.

2 Peter 1:1 “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

God AND Savior.

>Not the words of Jesus
No, it's the words of God himself as the Holy Spirit directed. You presume to contradict God?

>>2290526
2 Timothy 3:16
>All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

ALL SCRIPTURE IS BREATHED OUT BY GOD

All of it. Every single word of the Bible, breathed out by God himself. Quit your bullshit. Y

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>>2290663
>2 peter 1:1
Not the words of Jesus

>Holy Spirit
See >>2290338. Remember, the Holy Spirit help them to write the 7 books. But why did Christians thrown it out?

>>2290675
>Not the words of Jesus
No. The words of God. As is the entire Bible.

>>2290669
>>2290669
No please, let's civilized as long as possible.

See >>2290675.

This is not grammatical errors, it's about writing 7 fake Bible books.

>>2290245
He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity.

>>2290689
Did Jesus said that? No. Other people says that.

Jesus says the EXACT OPPOSITE.

>>2290694
Then do you accept those 7 books that is thrown out from the Roman Catholic Bible?

>>2290477
So God is not the author of the universe?

>>2290689
Not that anon, but Jesus pray to the Father:

Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father...

>>2290751
Author, not Creator. What is revealed to mankind is straightforward, unambiguous and clear-cut, even a baby can understand.

Universe is, dare I say it, a universe.

>>2290754
>>2290689
Forgot to add, you say that he is equal divine with the Father.

Does a divines worship each other? Nonsense.

>>2290759
Ah, so God is the "creator" of the universe, but all the confusion humans have over the universe's mechanics is presumably authored by Satan?

>>2290770
By author I mean what is revealed to mankind, which is books to Moses and Jesus, and writtings(Psalm) to David.

>>2290782
So, for example, let's imagine an uncontacted Amazonia tribesman emerging after the nuclear war. He and his offspring encounter both a bible and the universe, and what happens?

>>2290790
I never said that the universe aren't confusing.

I just said what is revealed to mankind by God through his prophets are simple and easy to understand.

That verse doesn't apply to the universe.

>>2290824
Okay, so what is the difference between Postapocalypse "Amazon" McBushman encountering the Bible and encountering the entire universe?

>>2290829
By not confusing I mean the majority can understand.

>>2290842
So understanding is temporally limited? The folks in the post apocalypse are out of luck, but those in the pre-apocalypse are granted understsnding? If it is temporally limited, why not move the boundary to NY times and have the doctrine understood/accepted and later generations /exceptions more limited, same way as it was limited in our situation?

>>2290858
I blame Paul for causing the apocalypse.

Imagine, a man who never met Jesus has the audacity to oppose Peter? The Leader of Disciples? The Rock? Who Jesus entrusted his sheeps ti?

And human cowardness are also to blame. They want someone to take the blame for their sins. They want someone to go to hell for their sins.

So yeah.

>>2290880
*sheeps to

>>2290880
A better thing than someone going to hell for one's sins is nobody being subject to such an insane dynamic.

>Imagine, a man who never met Jesus has the audacity to oppose Peter
Yes, given that evil within the Catholic approved Bible Peter is frequently shown to be incorrect (on subjects involving faith and morals) and the incident at Antioch, then yeah, our McBushman is entirely justified in his questioning. Especially if he had access to non-Catholic early Church documents.

>>2290904
>insane dynamic
What do you mean? If you do good, Heaven is a place for you. If you do evil, Hell is a place for you.

Sounds fair to me.

>evil Catholic
I never said that Peter "successor"s was right. They too stray from Peter's teachings, just like you've said.

Peter is RIGHT, because Jesus will never picks the wrong man for his job.

Paul, on the other hands, oppose this righteous man.

>McBushman
1 John 4:2
"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,"

>>2290965
>>2290904
1 John 4
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.

6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

>>2290764
prayer is not worship (^: