What do you guys think about HEMA (Historical European Martial

Just sounds like a load of LARPing for /pol/acks and Sabaton fans

>>2271998
Yea that's what I thought too at first but i see people break their noses and fingers all the time, so it's bit unlike LARPing

>>2271944
Pretty fucking based.

Physical swordfighting outside with other people is less autistic than swordfighting alone in your room or arguing about history and shit online.

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>>2271944
>relatively few rules
>fulfills my need to beat the shit out of autists

You sound like one of the many alpha-nerd mouthbreathers that over estimates themselves and gets a great lesson in humility.

Have you even read the rules? Have you attended a practice and actually seen whats involved? Do you have the money or sponsors to supply your harness, insurance and travel? Where are you located?

Literal edgelord katana tier

Except your part about beat up chan autists

>>2272019
I am, but many of those autists are my friemds and we make up afterwards and eat and train together

Yes I have
I practice weekly and train bi weekly (3 workouts a week)
I have the money as for sponsors, no
NY

>>2272019
OP here
I didn't see the pic but cool shit
Thinking of getting a mace but the weight requirements on axes are so much more favorable unfortunately :(

>>2271944
HEMA is cool. HMB is hideous.

>>2272040
>>2272048
You literally sound like the fucking retards we have to constantly deal with in the sport. Don't be the edgy autist, and just enjoy the sport and do your best as an athlete and historian to legitimize the practice.

>Thinking of getting a mace but the weight requirements on axes are so much more favorable

People who haven't been hit with a proper but legal mace all say that. Its all about a good haft and proper head design.

Post a pic of your bucket.

>HMB
>Historical

Pick one and only one. It's an entirely modern rule set, which ensures that it's combatants fight in an entirely modern way.

You could replace the armour with biker leathers, the ""falchions"" with crowbars and call it "Post apocalyptic battle" and it would be identical.

>>2272117
Won't argue there isn't some problems, but we are working on it all the time, aiming to be more in line with a Pas-de-armes foot-melee rather than the Russian BotN free-for all.

ALC rules are focusing more and more on skill and historic accuracy.

>>2272089
Thanks for the first clarification, honestly I'm not being condescending or an ass I didn't really realize I was coming accross as aggressive to be honest sorry about that friendo :(

The axe thing was most of the people I train with have been telling me and I've seen a few people just go for the gaps in armor with an axe to great effect. My instructor uses a mace though and he's on the American national team (or at least was)
Bucket haven't bought yet :'(

>>2272152
>My instructor uses a mace though and he's on the American national team (or at least was)

Andre?

>>2272159
No
His names Damian (don't know if it's o or a)

>>2272176
Where do you live?
Then From there just check out any local ACL leagues

>>2272019
How would one get involved in this sport?

The BotN website is dogshit and I can't figure out anything from it.

>>2272184
Check >>2272178

>>2272150

Glad to hear it. I cringe everything I see a video if two guys in tin cans hugging each other while flailing around, posted as an example of what a "real medieval battle would be like".

>>2272189
What's ACL stand for?

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>>2272173
Damion, if you're in New York.

>>2272176
>>2272184
As >>2272178 says. You start out of armour, and work on technique and conditioning. I don't say this to sound tough, but its really not for everyone.

>BotN
Is an event. You want the ACL (Armoured Combat League) or HMB (Historic Medieval Battle International).

>>2272192
>I cringe everything I see a video if two guys in tin cans hugging each other while flailing around, posted as an example of what a "real medieval battle would be like".

You're right. They would be on the ground, hugging each other and trying to stab each other with daggers.

>>2272203
Armoured Combat League

>>2272206
Yea that's the guy

>>2272206
Where are you located btw

>>2272227
Virginia, in the Historic Triangle. Trying to get a local team started so I don't have to drive three hours each way to a practice.

>>2272206

Exactly. All modern reconstructions inevitably fall down due to the combatants aren't REALLY trying to murder each other, so fighting style is adjusted accordingly, but you can at least get some idea. HMB just seems to be held up as some ultra realistic example though for some reason. Maybe because it's "full contact" whatever that means.

>>2272236
Nice, thankfully my place is only a 30 minute train ride away.
Are you planning on starting a whole new chapter or just having a nearby place to train?

>>2271944
Former sport fencer here, you'll find the bigger autists here. HEMA autists are the kind that drink beer out of steins and like steampunk

>>2272267
"Full Contact" is the worst, most cancerous meme description to exist in historic martial arts, larp, fencing etc.

>>2272273
I'd like to have more than one other ACL fighter and a handful of open-minded SCA/HEMA folk to play with regularly, but getting a full chapter and team is a goal.

>>2272276
>Steampunk
Kill it with greek fire.

>>2272288
Best of luck to you, buddy!
Shouldn't be too hard I'd imagine. Don't you have a town hall where you could advertise or people who go the same club as you who live at a similar distance?

>>2272288

Wasn't the term dreamed up by Brian R. "cheat and steal money from suppliers and clients while simultaneously running a school on chivalry" Price?

>>2272304
Its a hard sell. It require a lot more time, money and dedication than the average HEMA practitioner or historic recreationist (SCA, Markland, Adrian Empire etc) is willing to put in.

>>2272317
You mean Brian R "Edits his wikipedia article to remove anything negative" Price?

Thats a name I haven't heard in some time....

>>2272288
Whats wrong with the term full contact? People use it to describe other types of sports.

>>2272217
>>2272206
Seems like the ACL doesn't have a Europe chapter, according to their website.

And I can't find a website for the HMBI, only gives me the BotN website.

>>2272337
Because it has no agreed defined meaning. A boffer larp can call itself "full contact" when its rule disallow head shots and you can't touch them with anything but a weapon. Full contact football has a definite meaning, compared to touch, flag etc.

Its like "organic" as a description for food. There is no regulation or agreed definition of the word, and people use it to sound "cooler" or "better"

>>2272339
Try HMB Also:

>a Europe chapter
Because Europe isn't a country. Try searching your specific country.

>>2272329

Ditto. I had quite forgotten him until I mentoned """"""full contact""""""". His wiki page is surprisingly glowing.

>Recently he has spoken at the UK Ministry of Defence

Fucking hell...

>>2271944

>HEMA

worse than SCA desu

>HMB

solid, but fights seem to devolve pretty quickly

nobody keeps formation

>>2271944
Is it mostly 1v1 fights or do people actually fight in formations?

>>2272377
Both
5v5 is super popular
Also heard of 16v16 royales (without cheese) and those become a brawl fairly quick

Question, what do you think of Buhurt? I was in Poland while ago and saw a tournament of this and was interested on how it plays on the historical accuracy part, way I understood its more slavs getting armored and smacky

>>2272339
http://www.armoredfighting.com/fighting.php
This looks pretty useful desu

>>2272377
All of the above. Max is 32 v 32, o3 8v8v8v8v8v8

>>2272398
ACL is bohurt.

>>2272393
>>2272402
What type of formations can you do with so few?

>>2272408
Triads, hammer and anvils, two-man division....

>>2272432
>....

>>2272447
Look at rugby and hockey defense or beatdown plays. There is tons of stuff.

New to HMB
Where's the best place to get armor
>>2272019
Specifically talking to this guy if he's still around
Also I want to go for a crusader look, are great helms good protection? I hate bascinets and everyone at my place wear em
(I want to stand out)

>>2271944
HEMA is historical, and teaches you good swordsmanship, which you will never ever need.
HMB and friends is ahistorical full contact fun in knights dress up.
Both is good fun, slight advantage for HEMA because way more stuff and historic research and less concussions.
As long as you don't join SCA you should be alright.

>>2272364
>t. desperate SCA fag

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>>2271944
>your face when you practice an art for warriors rather than a sport for mass consumption

>>2272511
What sport is that?

>>2272364
>>2272496
>>2272499
what the fuck is SCA

>>2272531
We don't talk about it
(SCA is HMB but "lighter" it's cheaper and instead of using full on hits or until someone gets thrown into the ground you use an honesty system on wether or not the hit would have killed you. Also they use rattan instead of steel)

>>2272531
Larp with weapons. While in some ways it was a precursor to hema its rules are stricter and training isn't based on historical models.

>>2272531
Full day larp with kings and queens and fancy names and dress up and renaissance fair, oh and some stick fighting too.

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>>2272479
Which Crusade? Because the early crusades are right out as they would never be legal in the armour requirements. The blunt reason you see Bascinets is because they work really well in combat. If you want to stand out, do a later period like 15th or 16thC.

>>2272496
>As long as you don't join SCA you should be alright.
Get fucked. 90% of the North American fighters are SCA.

>>2272511
The Japs get their shit wrecked in HMB. The best ones fight in Euro armour, or are American/Ausie Expats.

>>2272531
Historic recreation (note the difference between reenactment and recreation) that is as >>2272543 says. Allows much larger numbers, archery and siege weapons.

>>2272544
>>2272552
As an SCAer, larper, HEMA practitioner and ACL fighter, you should really do some research before to run your mouths. More so, there is a ton of cross practice. The titles are a hold over from our origins as a backyard party, for our local presidents and leaders, and we study both material culture and social culture aspects of history, along side fighting.

>>2272544
>training isn't based on historical models.
Thats changed in the bast decade, with the better availability of steel weapons (which we also do) and historic combat resources.

Get gud.

>>2272565
>The Japs get their shit wrecked in HMB. The best ones fight in Euro armour, or are American/Ausie Expats.

And I doubt those doing it have much training in any legit school of kenjutsu.

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>>2272578
Actually, their national team started as all national Kenjutsu, jujitsu and kendo champs. The old JABL captain was actually apparently the son of some major school.

WAS the captain. Jay Noyes is an American expat who has since replaced him.

>>2272627
>>2272627

There are no kenjutsu champs and tradtional jujutsu schools dont have tournaments. If you said kendo or judo I might believe you.

Fact is many koryu would expel a student for participating in something like that

>>2272578
>And I doubt those doing it have much training in any legit school of kenjutsu.
Why? Katas aren't particularly good at preparing people for combat. Unless you include some realistic sparring in your training, which kenjutsu isn't really known for (you even state above that koryu schools would expel people for competing), your training isn't going to be very effective.

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>>2272645
I did include kendo, and I am just passing on the info I was told. I dont speak moonrunes and can't read their page.

Not that I particularly care either. Just go cry over your grorrious Nihon failing against the Koreans and Chinese teams.

>>2272565
Sorry Gropey, but SCA is LARP. It might be good fun and everything, but it is LARP. It's like Disney Land for adults, with castles and knights and fair maidens and foam weapon fights.

>>2272670
As a larper, its not. No story line, not characters, no goal. Its more of a social club.
The whole name thing is only for people some people as part of the historic education aspect when they choose a period. Robert of Rome sounds weird when you're doing an educational demo at a school.

There is nothing wrong with larping, but it just shows you have a fundamental lack of knowledge of both the SCA and larping

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>>2272678
>not LARPing

>>2272686
Nope. Costumed historic social club. If it had a plot, like a reenactment, it would be a larp.

Also: fucking sunglasse in front! Reeee!

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>>2272697
>totally historic

>>2272565
Last Crusade or maybe even Reconquista

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>>2272654

For the sake of brevity I will only address the state of things in those schools that haven't devolved into preservation societies.

First Kata were an are an effective way to train people in swords, polearms and other such weapons. They were used to prepare men for duels, and no holds bar matches with wooden weapons which occurred in Japan at least up through the 60's. When done properly two man koryu kata can be terrifying, because any strike can result in serious injuries. They can be performed rigidly or fluidly with variations depending on the art and the experience of those doing them.

Many of the surviving schools do have sparring in an official capacity, and others have a long history with kendo or judo and draw their practitioners from those arts.

Even in those that do not officially spar there are members who ex members who cross swords in a freestyle manner either with or sometimes without sanctions. Things happen behind closed doors that if your not a member you are likely to only hear about in passing or not at all. They are not my stories to tell but some of them are pretty eye opening.

>>2272665
Give me the link, my moon isnt that good but I am curious so I would like to give it a go.

>>2272700
>Social club
About as historic as HEMA in motorcross kit, or Not allowing stabbing in ACL/HMB.

What kind of point are you trying to make, aside that you are an autist? Its a costumed historic recreation social club. We're not here to discus the culture or the costumes, but the fact that the baton combat has helped bring HMB to North America.

I am done with you now, you may go.

>>2272702
The reconquista is over 700 years of history, and the last crusade is early 1200s, and thus not legal armour for safety reasons.

Basically, you NEED at least 14thC or something else with a majority of plate and padding.

>>2272705
Most of it was info in english passed on via forums and facebook. But maybe you can try their website? I would enjoy some first hand www.armoredbattle.com/info.

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>>2272726

Sorry Gropey, I admitted a few posts back that it is good fun, but no one will take you seriously, neither from the historic point of view nor from the swordsmanship nor for full contact fun.
Deal with it.

>>2272742
Gropey is established with credentials. Why would people care about you?

>>2272742
Whatever gets you to half mast bro.

I would be happy to talk about in person, should you be close. I have actually met and had some good sparring sessions with anons from 4chan.

>>2272742
I agree with gropey
It's certainly historic as that armor has to be period based
Also it for sure fucking is full contact fun (whatever that means),
SCA and HMB is like airsoft to paintball
Except that HMB hurts more
The whole honor system used in SCA is pants on head retarded imho

>>2271944
HEMA is a question of availability, if you happen to have a good club nearby, good for you, then your training will look something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0xl_Z4B3Ug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4r28Udlon8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEJnChfLTs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nHxhY6brDk

If you don't have a good club in your vincinity don't even bother with HEMA, because bad HEMA is awful.

>>2272768
>Except that HMB hurts more
Water is wet: News at 11

>The whole honor system used in SCA is pants on head retarded imho
Well, like HEMA sparing, its not about breaking your friends. Its a hobby in the end.

As far as medieval combat hobbies go, ACL/HMB is a very far extreme, with the goal of actively incapacitating, knowing down, or forcing the opponent to yield. Its much less inclusive based on this. On the bright side, it keeps out a lot of assholes.

>>2272786
>If you don't have a good club in your vincinity don't even bother with HEMA, because bad HEMA is awful.

This can go for anything in the spectrum of the hobby. When its good, its great. When its bad, its horrific.

>>2272665
>>2272726

Certainly couldn't find anything about their kenjutsu/kendo/jujutsu credentials there. Thinking about looking at their japanese weapons videos to see if its kenjutsu-like or chambara like

>>2272726
Shit I should probably go for a bascinet then anyway :(
Sallet helms seem way to expensive and I fear that you could really fuck up your neck of you get hit in the bevor in the right angle
Also the armor that's contemporary with Sallet helms seems really expensive

>>2272766
>I would be happy to talk about in person, should you be close. I have actually met and had some good sparring sessions with anons from 4chan.
Happy to oblige, but I'm Europe based, can't see me traveling to the states in the near future, but if you come to the old continent we can discuss this and do some sparring.

>>2272765
Someone that is qualified to discuss with Gropey about fencing matters.

>>2272742
HEMA/SCAfag. Im solid with clownfags explanation. You're just a cuck.

>>2272798
This was like, two years ago when they first formed.

The youtube vids are awful and they fight like ass. Be warned.

>>2272791
But it is rather extreme with HEMA, you can have a serious sports club, with proper physical training, methodics, and personal, or you can have a garage club consisting of two fat neckbeards, a blue haired girl and a tranny.

>>2272802
Where in Europe? Depending on a few factors, I may be in France for business.

>>2272019

Gropey, jog my memory.

Aren't you black? I only recently started coming here but I distinctly remember a black dude on /k/ and /tg/ who used to do HEMA.

>>2272823
Close enough, I got leisure time till May, but I'll be be traveling myself, likely away till first week of March.
Rest of March to May is looking good. Any chance that fits your schedule.

>>2272831
>Aren't you black?
Not as far as I have noticed.

>>2272846
Depending on how things go with work, and what horrors Emperor Trump unleashes, I may be in France to look at some French colonial texts in the fall.

>>2272860
Yes, just drop me a line on the HEMA general when you know the details. Would that be Paris based?

>>2272882
There's a HEMA general?

>>2272886
>>>/asp/2178960

>>2272882
No freaking clue yet. I was just told I might go to France for a week. Now I am told that the state Museums near us might shut down. Things are crazy.

>>2272899
Are you legitimate historian?

>>2272952
Shocking, eh? I've worked at a couple of museums, both historic interpretation and glove-work.

>>2272894
oh god there's still legit martial arts discussion in that hell hole?

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>>2272980
They like spandex, we like spandex, we'll be fine.
A good sword or historic martial arts thread on /his/ is nice, but the HEMA general does belong on the alternative sports board. But yes /asp/ is pretty fucked. Thanks Hiro

>>2272980
Sometimes, but its like /his/, in that it sucks at its actual purpose 99% of the time with the same 5 threads ad nauseum.

>>2272995
It's a shame really. Some of the best talks I've had on 4chan were on that board in it's early days. Now it's just an endless string of 2-3 post long threads left to die.

>>2273010
>Now it's just an endless string of 2-3 post long threads left to die.
It seems ADHD is common amongst rassling fans.

>>2272974
I mean it's to be expected

>>2273006
Gropey you posted your bucket earlier
Do you have a full set?

>>2273095
Set of armor*

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>>2273095
Nothing recent within the last year, as I have been mostly working a and doing practices rather than events.

Old pic is old, and is missing my maille, greaves, and gloves (the gaunt fingers were attached to the gloves rather than the meta carpel plate).

Updates have been made as such:

*Replaced the maille shirt with brigandine breast and back. Still wearing the placard
*Due to this, also added a seperate maille skirt
*New gauntlets, Milanese clamshells with vambraces

>>2273121
That's a pig faced bascinet, am I right?
Looks pretty good mate
The hardest part of imagine is keeping the armor contemporary with a time period. How do you go about researching and what not?

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>>2273006
People tend to romanticize pre-wwe /asp/ Like many boards on 4chan views outside the board norm were not welcome. Try discussing CMA, even the historical aspects. It was nearly impossible without trolls piling on about CMA's admittedly bad record in limited rules competition.

On the other hand it was one of the more active martial arts boards on the internet and it could be alot of fun. Had some good discussions on occasion

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>>2273189
Bellows face close sallet.

>The hardest part of imagine is keeping the armor contemporary with a time period. How do you go about researching and what not?

By reading books and comparing dates. I do late 15thC Southern Italian.

>>2273224
I am actually very recent to /asp/. I just call it as I see it.

>>2273232
>By reading books and comparing dates. I do late 15thC Southern Italian.
Fuck
I guess I'll visit the Met in Manhattan or one of the many arms and armor museums around NY state

>>2273251
Why "fuck"? You'd still have to cross reference the info in a book anyways, as having worked in museums, I don't trust museum documentation.

>>2273292
Fuck was because I realized that most of the books on this sort of topic are:
Rare
In a foreign language

>>2273344
I have PDFs of several if continental 15th-16thC is your interest. Some even in English.

And now if a great time to pick up French or Italian.

>>2273358
Link pls?
Half my family speaks Italian and know of my interests, they could help me out

>>2273364
got gmail?

>>2273368
Si señor
[email protected]

>>2273403
Will send in a bit

>>2272806
There fighting that I can tell looks like bad hema, though none of the vidoes I saw of HMB looked particularly impressive

>>2271944
>ask about HEMA
>post some image of SCA/BotN retards

OP you have failed me for the last time

>>2273495
>What do you guys think about HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) or its more physical cousin HMB (Historical Medieval Battles)?
>HMB
It's right there

>>2273495
>Asks about HMB
>Posts HMB

You're a special kind of stupid

>>2272011
>but i see people break their noses and fingers all the time, so it's bit unlike LARPing
Larper here. I've suffered broken noses and feet*, and have broken opponents hands and fingers.

We also had a guy break his leg, but falling off of a bridge will do that.

HMB is just hardcore larping.


*foot

>>2273595
Don't be that guy.

Everything is larping. Happy now?

>>2271944
A lot of people talking about danger and injuries as being important. But there is a difference between training hard, training smart and effectiveness.

You could get some terrible injuries fighting your friends with sticks in the back yard. You might actually get half-decent at stick fighting that way, but in terms of building historically accurate sword skills its actually counter productive. The moment our backyard stick fighter steps into a sword or weapons class he will be taken apart by the instructor and have to unlearn lots of bad habits

>>2273601
>Everything is larping. Happy now?
Thats what i've been saying

>>2273610
>A lot of people talking about danger and injuries as being important

One person. Who also "wants to beat up autists". Ignore it. Injuries (other than situational like ankle/knee etc for falling) only happen when armour fails. If your armour fails, its your fault, simple as that.

>>2273601
If it's role play and live action, yes.

I'd actually accept labeling HMB a sport, but SCA is a larp, and gropey is full of shit on the matter.

The moment you have people holding fake court with their fake names to talk about their deeds of arms, it's a fucking larp. It's live action, you're role playing, and it's not educational.

>>2273626
forgot my trip.

>>2273610
On the other hand, fighting with ultralight Popsicle sticks WILL teach you body mechanics. You need them to deal with stupid cunts who won't take light hits.

I've never accidentally broken a finger or concussed someone. Certainly not with a few ounces of bamboo.

>>2273629
Don't you have AIDS to die from?

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>>2273629
You're derailing the thread with your pathetic vendetta. You have been dismissed and told you are not wanted, and are not even contributing.

You must lead a sad life.

>>2273629
I like You lad, keep posting :)

>>2273634
Shinai can certainly do those things with a hard enough hit. I imagine a bamboo stick would be similar.

They can teach good body mechanics if someone is teaching you or you are being systematic about it. If your just having fun and pretending you're some sort of badass it will probably make your body mechanics worse, at least for real fighting

>>2273637
>samfagging this hard

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>>2273638
Here is your >(you)

>>2273661
What the fuck did He mean by this?????

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>>2273646
Meant to tag you here >>2273661

Oh well. More pics .

>>2273638
I'm not the person you were arguing with. SCA is a larp. You adopt a persona and then play that role over the course of a live action event while taking part in a game. Which is EXACTLY what a larp is. Larps don't require a centralized plot. That's you moving goalposts.


You put on armor. You pick up fake swords, you fight, and then baron mchugegut of atlantalia praises newguy longarm of the east for his work in hooking peoples shields for him. In court. Still pretending. It's no less of a larp than AMTGARD. SCA is just pretentious and unwilling to accept that they're the shiny toys larp.

>>2273649
Shinai are 10-20 times the weight of ultralights. They suffer from being too light to hurt anything.

>>2273668
He's butthurt and fucking up his posts.

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>>2273668
New phone. Tapped the wrong post.

Pic is not specifically bohurt, but proof no one has an excuse.

>>2273673
Sod off samefag

>>2273673
Samefags gonna samefag

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>>2273670

>>2273673
You're roleplaying the role of an anon not samefagging. Noice larp m8.

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>>2273688
Whatever helps you sleep son. I've seen better trolls in my decade here.

Speaking of sleep, don't you have school today?

>>2273688
You edit like shit

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>>2273700
>>2273704
Nope. Gropey is just full of shit.

>>2273706
He's 12. Give him a break.

>>2273704
>this isn't larp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT1TTMg9xg

Do you know what the difference is between this and the larp courts i've been in?
They're working harder to stay in character.

It's a fucking larp.

>>2273121
How thick is your joupon and whats it made out of? Where did you get it?

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>>2273759
Its actually a burgundian arming jack, and its about a dense 1/4" of cotton/wool blend sheet tow, quilted between canvass weight linen. Its a home made piece using a Reconstructing History repro pattern. Pic related.

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>>2273704
>>2273706
Kill yourselves

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>>2273784
You first.

>>2273771
So you made it yourself? How long did it take?

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How far back does SCA let you go? I just found out about them 3 days ago. I would love to gear up in this and smack the shit out of people and talk about history

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>>2273797
>So you made it yourself?
Fuck no! It would look like a tragic farming accident if I tried! It was a joint Christmas gift from my girlfriend and my mom (a former seamstress) about a year ago.

>>2273798
As long as you can safely meet the armour requirements (which for some periods need to be anachronistic for the sake of safety), then you could go all the way to antiquity. Pic related. He's from a Roman subgroup, and made an safe eagle standard for a capture the flag scenario.

>>2273358
Gropey, do you have any pdfs in english regarding 15th century burgundian armour?

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>>2273902
I have continental armour, torunament armour, german specific and Italian specific, but no Burgundy specific.

That also said, I seem to have mostly fechtbuch uploaded right now, except for "Heroic Armor of the Italian Renaissance-Filippo Negroli and his Contemporaries" which is all about in-modo-antiquo harnesses in the 15th-16thC

Drop me an email at [email protected], and i'll link you some shit.

When will people accept that it's all LARP. SCA, Reenactment, HMB. It's all dressing up and pretending to be a character that you aren't in real life.

The level of authenticity of kit doesn't change that. You're not actually a 14th century archer in the Black Princes army. You're an accountant called Keith.

>>2272019
>>2272089
Come down out of your own arse, snobby cunt

>>2274024

>actually explaining the reality to some guy who openly wants to beat up autists is snobbery

>>2273681
...does that guy have a fucking peg-leg?

Hardcore

>>2274024
He's telling OP how it is. OP was being an edgelord. Gropey laid down info and told him to stop being edgy. Lrn2read

>>2272860
LOL what a cuck

>>2274001
Except in HMBs case it's not
Because in HMB you aren't pretending to be anyone, you're just putting on armor and fighting.
It'd be like calling boxing and MMA role playing because the adherents are role playing fighters

>>2273673
>Shinai are 10-20 times the weight of ultralights. They suffer from being too light to hurt anything.

Shinai weight about a fourth to a third of a real sword and while they rarely leave serious injuries they can.

>>2274858


>you're not pretending to be anyone
>apart from a knight from a specific time period and location.

Face it, it's LARP. Just because you don't give yourself a backstory and speak like an extra in a Shakespeare play, doesn't mean you aren't playing a role. As said earlier, if you wanted you could make it fully modern with bike leathers and crowbars. But people prefer to play as a knight. It's LARP.

>>2275063
According to your metric than every single Occupation and sport is roleplaying.
>Just because you put on gloves and box people in a ring means you're just roleplaying a boxer!
>just because you wear shorts and play soccer with the FIFA rules means you're just roleplaying a soccer player!
>just because you put in a suit and go to a fancy business firm means you're just roleplaying a accountant
P.S
Knights weren't the only people who wore armor
Also full armor has been worn peridiocally after the knight class has died out.

>>2275094

Nowhere near the same as those are all modern activities, done by people with modern equipment and materials.

If you started doing accounts dressed in a toga and using an abacus, you'd be LARPing a Roman accountant. If you put on hose and a doublet and started chasing a pigs bladder between 2 villages with 30 of your mates, you'd be LARPing a medieval football match.

So if you put on medieval armour and fight against other people in medieval armour, using medieval weapons, you are???

>>2275116
A Steel fighter
Also here's the definition of roleplaying:
>the acting out of the part of a particular person or character, for example as a technique in training or psychotherapy.
None of the people who do these things are acting as a particular person or character
Also the thing you mentioned aren't roleplaying, it's just wearing clothes and using material that past people have used

>>2275156

And in this case"the part" is that of a medieval knight.

The whole thing could be done in a modern boxing arena, with modern plastic armour and weapons that would make things 100× easier and safer. But they don't. They set up wooden arenas outside castles and hit each other with swords. Why? Because they're role playing as a HISTORIC MEDIEVAL fighter.

Wearing clothes and using material used by past people is like 95% of LARPing.

>>2275182
No ones playing as a medieval knight.
People DO fight indoors in modern arenas, people DO wear modern protection such as mouthguards and cups. People wear titanium and aluminum armors just done in a medieval "look", there ARE rules where people can't kick each other in the knees and hit people in the head when they're bent over.
I'm starting to think you're a troll desu :\

are there any of these based on ancient warfare instead of medieval?

something like phalanx fights with blunt spears that have hard rubber balls at the tips

>>2275250

>a medieval look
>medieval

That word keeps coming up, over and over...

So they're not playing as a medieval knight, they're just going to extraordinary lengths and compromising safety, to make sure they look just like a medieval knight? Not only a medieval knight, but a fairly specific medieval knight?

If they aren't playing as a medieval knight, why bother with the expensive, dangerous medieval theme at all?

>>2275278
Unfortunately no as it would require lots of people
BUT
There's SCA which came up a few times but they amuse rattan instead of metal spears

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>>2275307
>Unfortunately no as it would require lots of people

honestly the only actual thing that keeps these games from being somewhat authentic is that they really are a disorderly brawl without military organization.

the 2014 Ukrainian riots were amazing to see though because they were real life, large scale melee warfare.

>>2275279
/sigh
1) Not everyone wearing armor and fighting during medieval times was a knight
2) the armor you could wear stretches from 13th century to 17th century, the medieval period started in the 5th century and ended in the beginning of the 16th century.
The reason those periods are chosen is because the armor made then is the most protective for this sort of sport. The 16th and 17th centuries are renaissance to age of exploration. People who wear these armor aren't knights they're more akin to men at arms or cuirassiers who wore similar armors. It can't be LARPing because the only historical tidbit is that YOU wear armor that matches the period you're representing.
It's a sport.
Just like HEMA, they're both in the same family of sports that Olympic fencing is in. Would you consider Olympic fencing roleplaying? They're getting suited up wearing clothes used in fencing bouts since the 19th century.

>>2275349

Thanks for the autistic history lesson noone asked for.

Do you not have to tie to your kit down to a specific country and a 50 year time frame?

>>2275359
Country specific- no thankfully
Time frame is century give or take 50 years

>thanks for that autistic history lesson no one asked for
Nigga
NIGGA
you're on a history discussion board, were discussing history. You said we're medieval knights, all I said it stretches to other points of time were it doesn't cover medieval history and armor was still used.

>>2275552

So, you have to pick a specific type of armour, from a specific point in history, thereby portraying a specific kind of historical fighter?

Sounds like you're picking a character to me.

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>>2275349
>Just like HEMA, they're both in the same family of sports that Olympic fencing is in

>>2275582

This is what LARPers in denial actually believe.

>>2275596
>behold SCA swordsmanship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5JaQq2Dakg

>>2275599
Oh y'all are thinking I'm talking about SCA
Yea SCA is LARP
HEMA is what I thought you fags we're talking about

>>2275608
HEMA normally doesn't dress up as knights or whatever.

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>>2275619

>litterally the first thing in Google images for historical european martial arts

who cares if sca is larp or not
it looks fun

>>2275686

>who cares

People who think their flavour of grown up fancy dress is better than some other flavour of grown up fancy dress, apparently.

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>>2275674
Thats Harnischfechten, a rare subtype of hema about armored combat. At least they are using correct techniques instead of bashing at each others.
>my first google image is pic related

>>2275708
Well, as said, HEMA is without dressup. You got fencing kit.

incredible amounts of autism, cant read past 3 posts... the cringe

>>2276008
It's 4chan what did you expect?

>>2276008
lol le cringe u watch leafy 2 bro XDDDD lol nerds

>>2271944
>HEMA
Not very historical.
>HMB
Not very historical.

If you want to wear some tin and hit each other, then have fun. If you want to do something related to history, then I'd advise ignoring both of these and just doing regular reenactment.

>>2276149
>Not very historical.
Save for the period sources of course...

>>2276158
Neither of the two are historical. HEMA uses believed historical fighting styles, yet that's dubious at best and doesn't take into account other aspects of historical combat. HMB is just boxing with tin. Even those who participate in HMB state it's not meant to be historical.

>>2276187

And yet it has Historical in the name...

>>2276195
That doesn't mean shit.

>>2276203

It's the name they chose for themselves.

>>2276195
The DPRK has democratic in its name. What's your point?

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>>2276187
>HEMA uses believed historical fighting styles,
HEMA uses written historical sources, which are quite detailed and then works with a process of peer review. Working with primary sources is where the H in HEMA comes from.
cross influence come from surviving European martial arts like Jogo do Pao stick fighting.

>>2276220
Once again, that doesn't mean shit.

>>2276260
Yes, everybody knows this. However not all fighting styles are recorded and the accuracy of the currently used fighting styles is dubious. Also, it doesn't take into account other aspects of medieval fighting, such as armour. Most reenactment training is 'HEMA', but with other aspects included.

>>2276284
>Also, it doesn't take into account other aspects of medieval fighting, such as armour.
Lolwut? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S_Q3CGqZmg
Hey, HEMA has found, transcribed, translated and tested hundreds of old fencing manuscripts, that alone justifies the Historic. They are the first ones to admit that they do not know everything, but some styles like German longsword or Italian sidesword have been thoroughly researched and several publications have resulted from this.
HEMA is not a sport entirely, research work has a high priority.

>>2276224
>>2276284


>Hi, this is Teds Tire Shop. We sell knitting supplies and the guy in charge is called Bob

You don't see anything wierd about this? They named their organisation "Historical" but then apparently don't do anything historical? What was the point?

>>2276301
Because it's based on historical fighting, like HMB and reenactment; like Mount and Blade is a game with historical basis. Doesn't meant it's historically accurate.

>>2276308
Weird shit that they often publish papers on 14th-19th century stuff, wonder if this could account for the historical? Or maybe it is that they study and train historic European martial arts?

>>2276309

>based on historical

>>2276187

>not meant to be historical

Well, which is it guys?

>>2276324

HMB publishes papers now?

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>>2276337
>he talks about HMB
>everybody else talks about HEMA

>>2276353

Read the reply chain dude.

Start here
>>2276187
>Even those who participate in HMB state it's not meant to be historical.

Followed by
>>2276195
>And yet it has Historical in the name...

>>2276333
If you read it again, you'll notice I said HEMA is based on some historical manuscripts and that HMB participants state that it's not entirely historical. Two different activities, two different comments. Actually read what people say if you're going to quote them.

>>2276425

You're working from the assumption that I was talking about HEMA in >>2276308 (edited and reported from >>2276301). Follow the quotes and it's obviously about HMB apparently not being meant to be historical, while having historical in the name.

>>2276452
I was talking about both HEMA and HMB, considering they both have 'historical' in their names... Be more precise in the future.

>>2276464

And only one of them you said isn't actually meant to be historical.

>>2276473
It's only your previous post that referred to HMB. I said the same statement about both activities. My sixth sense hasn't evolved yet. Apologies.

And yes, that's what those I know that participate in HMB have said, based on armour, fighting styles, etc.

>>2276484

>one of these isn't meant to be historical
>but it has Historical in the name

Do you really need a sixth sense for this?

>>2276498
The sixth sense statement was referring to you presuming I should know that you were referring to HMB alone and not HEMA.

I don't know where you're going with this so I'll explain it as simple as I can for you. It's called historical because the average tard will watch it and go "huh knights, it's history". If you actually know you're shit about historical arms, fighting or HMB, you would know it's not very accurate. This is why most people I know have participated in both activities but have settled for normal reenactment, preferring the fighting and accuracy.

>>2271944
Historical medieval battles doesn't look any different from Battle of nations, not something worth doing.

Hema on the other hand appears to be systematic and at least derived from historical material. I'm a koryu guy but I respect what HEMA is doing. I do wish living lieges like koryu bujutsu would get a bit more love around there though. In terms of historical swordsmanship that is the gold standard.

>>2277561

BotN is a final boss level of HMB. They're the same thing.

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>>2277897
Ah that makes sense

>>2276187
>>2276284
Do you think that HEMA somehow research "wrong" fencing manuals. But then we have left texts by recorded Royal fencing masters, some fencing authors certainly had dubious fame, but many we know were official and renowned masters (Fabris, Cavalcabo, Meyer, Labat, Angelo for instance).

Is it bad because it doesn't do anything that was historical fighting? But even living lineage can't do that. Just because you study a fraction of what was historical fighting doesn't mean it isn't worthy of the historical title.

>>2279100
Where do HEMA practitioners find these manuals?

>>2279723
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.middleages.hu/english/martialarts/treatise_database.php

>>2279723
Online obviously, and originally either in private or public collections, it's not impossible to find examples (ie some copies of the originals) of them today.
Modern facsimile of famous manuals (Marozzo's Opera Nova or Fiore's Fior di Battaglia) were out there since in the 19th century.

>>2279770
Hmm
Thanks I def start to practice these

>American Euroboos
Disgusting.

>>2273442
know Im late but, can you send me too
[email protected]

>>2281056
Maybe, do some research about the actual styles, weapons and most importantly, the club that are in your area first... just saying.
Besides, it's not because a treatise is popular or well-known that it's everyone's gig. Popularity now have nothing to do with popularity then.

>>2276284
Many medieval duels were not fought in armour, but there are many sources for fighting in armour as well.
HEMA also covers periods where people didn't wear armour at all, e.g. Victorian era sabre

>>2272087
HMB is where you test out what you've learned in HEMA doofus

>>2281747
>really like middle ages
>at that time my ancestors were European
????
What am I supposed to do, study native savages who have nothing in common with me?

>>2282379
Why not testing in HEMA what you've learned in HEMA...?
Gear doesn't seem to look the same, many many HEMA styles don't transfer well to HMB (in fact, like the vast majority of them aren't about armored melee). HEMA is already doing its own thing.
Those two aren't the same, there's no progression from either to the other. At best they complement each other.

>>2282499
But surely there have been techniques in HEMA adjusted for HMB right?

>>2272012
incorrect

doing any of this shit out in public is much worse than doing it in private and secret home online

>>2272150
you do realise this is the the equivalent of being a furry of larping MLP in public?

There is a group at my uni who do this shit (un of manc uk) and they are the worst mouthbreathing losers in the entire city

the fact that they roleplay as heroic knights is cringingly obvious that they were bullied or victimised at some point

>>2282379

Lolno

HMB is about blindsiding and pummelling your opponent in the head until they fall over. Trying to do any of the techniques and maneuvers from HEMA will likely result in you snapping your arm when 4 Russian ogres leap on you.

>>2282514
What do I know? HEMA is its own thing, I doubt many people are doing it to transition to HMB. Do HMB people look into HEMA techniques, maybe, I don't know, but thinking the logical way is HEMA -> HMB is silly, it's rather HEMA -> more HEMA, that's all.

Besides, you don't "adjust" techniques, you use what is useful in the proper context. How do you "adjust" a rapier thrust from quarta into HMB? You don't! You just look at armored fencing. Now of course this is just ranting at words...

>>2282538

Do you know who you're talking to and what they do?

>>2273805
>that pic, that eagle
This isn't a you cringe you lose thread.

>>2282514
No, HMB is a modern thing with no real ties to historic fencing. In fact, most of the historic techniques requested by old manuals for fights in armor are forbidden in HMB. Hence they use sword like objects to club each others until one drops.