I know fuck all about history but I was wondering, did the soviets

>>2238508
Only with asian troops

>>2238508

If you're defining "Zerg rush" as charging forward, trusting into numerical superiority at the expense of any sensible tactics, attaining victory despite high cost in your own forces, then yes, the Soviets did that.

Principally in the summer of 1941. It worked out very badly, which is why they stopped doing it, and by the time they were winning the war, were using very modern tactics.

>>2238519
Well that answered my question, thanks anon.

Enemy on the Gates triggered me so fucking much just because of that scene. Suicide charges against heavy fortified strongpoints in urban warfare is something not even the craziest of commissars would order, especially not in the open square of all places.

I understand the need to depict le epic soviet zerg rush but Stalingrad is just out of place.

>>2240221
Consider that Stalin was willing to send as many people as possible to their death for victory. Also, consider that he killed his best generals because he didn't want any people usurping him. This is the primary reason the invasion of Finland was so embarrassing for them.

Also, Stalin just sent wave after wave because aint nobody have time for tactics beside make the enemy run out of bullets.

>>2238519
>expense of any sensible tactics
They tried this when the invasion started and it didn't work out until they got their shit together.

>>2238508
Yes and no. They employed this tactic from '39 to mid '41 which is why they got rekt so heavily in Finland and during the initial stages of Barbarossa. Turns out zerg rushing is actually a pretty shit tactic when facing technologically advanced enemies.

In late '41 / early '42 however they stopped doing this shit, the general staff was revamped and they slowly started marching towards victory with non-retard tactics.

>>2240397
If they used suicide charges in Stalingrad the Germans would've won easily by just setting up MG42s in the buildings and gunning down Russians. Obviously that's not what happened.

Stalingrad is pretty much the pinnacle of urban combat, it's what happens when every single building, or what's left of it, is turned into a fortress that must be captured. The fighting was much, much more complex than just pushing soldiers blindly into combat.

>>2238508

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_operation

This is basically what the Soviets did.

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>>2238508
Zhukov personally said that battlefield success is measured in the amount of frontoviki cut down by german machine gun fire.

>>2238508
I'd just like to interject for a moment comrades. What you're referring to as Human wave tactics, is in fact, Deep Battle and Human Wave tactics,
or as I've recently taken to calling it, masterstrategy and tactishits. Human wave is not a strategy unto itself, but merely a tactic made useful by based Deep Battle,
a vital strategy thanks to which Russia exists.

Many /his/ users mistake Deep Battle for Human wave tactics every day, without realizing it.
Through a peculiar turn of events, the Deep Battle strategy is often called "Human wave tactics", and many of /his/terics are not aware that it is basically
the Deep Battle, a Russian masterstrategy

There really are Human wave tactics, but Deep Battle is no part of it. Deep Battle is different, much more civilized and stuff.
This is essential for you to realize. Human wave tactics often include Deep Battle, but basically it's Human wave tactics with Deep Battle added.
All the so called "Massed assault" are really Deep Battle.

t. Georgy Zhukov

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>>2238508
>did the soviets really zerg rush the germans?
Yes.

>>2240460
Deep battle does not involve human waves. Tukhachevsky himself is not known to have used them, dude pulled back when he knew he was fucked.

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>>2240603

>Estonians fighting Estonians

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>>2240824
>Not playing with your toy Estonians

>>2240732
Tukan did not saw war since 1921, though. And I doubt Russians utilized the deep battle against Poles.

>>2240444
Were can I read about this?

>>2240397
>Tuchachevsky
>best general

He is relevant only because he supported motorization of Red army and tank warfare, he sucked in practical warfare.

>>2240512
*citation needed*

>>2241086
"I hate Germans who try to invade me but I hate Russians even more" - Georgy Zhukov

Source: Lurk moar

>>2241082
he was a great strategist, mediocre tactician
kinda like Rommel, but the opposite

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>>2240603
>did the germans really zerg rush the soviets?¨
yes

>>2240603
>casualties higher than the number of troops
how?

>>2241090
loosing most of your army thanks to the shit supply lines is literally opposite of being great strategist. He was too rash.

>>2241108
Reinforcements

>>2241109
>but the opposite
You are not very good at the whole reading thing, are you?

>>2241108
Soviets counted literally everyone who got wounded by anything as casualty, as well as tank with broken machinegun was considered destroyed.

>>2241117
Everyone counts wounded as casualties.

>>2240603

>136,830 troops
>170,000 casualties

Truly the pinnacle of Zhukov doctrine.

>>2238508
Most answers here are Stormfront-tier.
Soviets used 2 squads of 8 men each that cooperated, Rifle one had 1 DP-27, 6 rifles and officer with pistol, rifle or SMG, SMG one had 1 DP-27 and 7 submachineguns. Rifle squad covered SMG squad until SMG Squad reached enemy lines and captured them.

>>2241120
>Zhukov doctrine

>>2241118
No. Germans counted only those that could not fight as wounded.

>>2241137
In contemporary context, such as what would be cited on wikipedia, everyone counts wounded as casualties.

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Imagine being an early war German fighting the Russians.

>Hordes of Russians rushing forward, some of them not even armed with anything beyond a red flag
>Mow them down with your MG in great numbers
>They just keep coming and coming
>You mowed down so many of them you cant see anything beyond the giant pile of corpses that they use to their advantage to surprise you

>>2241151
>Be Khanpasha Nuradilov
>face this in Stalingrad

>>2241151
That's pretty much what it was like being an American on the Pacific Front for the entire war, except they all had weapons.

>>2241140
It cant be cited on WIkipedia when Germans did not recorded that.

>>2241176
>Casualties and losses
>63,345 wounded
Sure looks like they recorded it to me, you illiterate fuck.

>>2241177
I said that that they recorded only those that could not fight you autistic retard.

>>2241186
Proofs?

>>2241188
>No. Germans counted only those that could not fight as wounded.
take your meds please

>>2238508
Happened sometimes, sure. But it wasn't really anything like Enemy At the Gates portrays

>>2238508
It didn't happen, but several Soviet Commanders (especially Zhukov&Stalin) had no regard at all for the lives of their men.

>>2241192
Where is the proofs

>>2241198
having ´´no regard at all for the lives of your men´´ is literally only way how can you actualy win a war
Look at France, Benelux, Danmark, Yugoslavia, Greece
All those operations would look different if soldiers would fight to death instead of surrendering

>>2241202
Are you fucking retarded? I just cited what i said 7 replies above and its not proof for you?

>>2241211
That men will die is inevitable, how many die is something you can take steps to mitigate.

The difference in Leningrad casualty rates from Govorov took over from Zhukov is a good example.

>>2238508
Yeah. The Soviets were dumb animals with sticks for guns ridi horses and that's why they lost to the Germans with impeccable tactics and vastly overpowering equipment.

oh wait...

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>>2241216

>>2241217
So tell me a single reason to loose more men when you can achieve your goals with less casualities.

>>2241231
> So tell me a single reason to loose more men

1: being gay

>>2241151
>some of them not even armed
Where does this meme come from? The Soviet Union was one big weapons factory. They literally had 10x more tanks than Germany when Barbarossa was launched.

>>2241238
Probably a combination of WWI when the Russians really did only have 1 rifle to 10 men in some instances and Enemy at the Gates. The Soviet Union also had supply problems for a lot of the fresh units after the major encirclements of Barbarossa happened which meant some of the fresh units were seriously underequipped.

>>2241238
Enemy at the Gates and from German generals that claim it because loosing to enemy that is just too good is worse then loosing to enemy that uses no tactics and has 1000000x trilion times more soldiers then you.
There is video on YouTube with Paulus where he claims it.

>>2241247
They were underequipped, but it was mostly for artilery and AT-weapons. If someone had no rifle, he had same task as in WW1, he just had task to do something that he dont have to use weapons.

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Soviets utilised their advantage in manpower and territory to allow for fuckups that could have and in some cases did loose the war for other nations, like France and later Germany.
But they won because they used their second chance wisely. Getting steamrolled all the way to Moscow and desperately throwing poorly trained unequiped soldiers to hold the Germans for few more days but at the same time not getting tempted to use the strategic reserve of the highly trained, winter equipped far east front armies untill they were absolutely sure that it's safe with regards to Japan's and that they are going to make a real difference is just one example.

>>2241269
Germany had actualy equal population to SU in winter 1941, and this does not include population of occupied territories under German controll and other axis. Germans just had innefective economy and conscription.

>>2241258
>he had same task as in WW1
The task in WWI was to hold a broom over the parapet and shout BANG. I'm not even shitting you.

>>2240418
>zerg rushing is actually a pretty shit tactic when facing technologically advanced enemies


I feel like American natives did this a lot but I know nothing John sneew

>>2241288
They didn't. Native Americans generally used skirmish tactics because they were almost always outnumbered and outgunned.

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>>2238508
Like in the movie? No, they didn't do banzai suicide charges.
Over power the nazi with superior numbers? Yes.

>>2241277
Where did yoy get those numbers? Germany had 80 mil and Soviets 170 mil according to 1939 censuses.

>>2241238
There was one unit at the Mamaev Kurgan that supposedly didn't get armed but had to attack anyway.

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>>2238508
Do you really think real life and war is some motherfucking game and it can be summarized by some vg meme?
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8_%D0%B2_%D0%92%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%9E%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B5
But this is simple. Soviet military losses due to combat actions total at 6.3mil.
German and its allies losses - 3.6 and 0.6 mil.
6.3 / (3.6+0.6) = about 1.4 ratio.
And don't forget - attacking army needs to have 1:3 ratio in general for succesful action (1:7 in urban area) and experience more casualties in process. Soviets managed to lead on offensive till the very Berlin, and capture it.
Not the Moscow got captured, but Berlin. You really don't have to wonder why soviets have more casualties.

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>>2241136
>Zhukov doctrine
>"I must unite the Russian people under one graveyard."

>>2240418
funny thing is the Soviets were outnumbered by a million men at the start of the war and they still decided to constantly counterattack

>>2240221
Who are you going to complain to for poor strategy? Your superior in command? Stalin?

>>2241508
That's according to Russian wiki. Eng wiki states between 8-14 mil according to mainstream Russian sources (Ministry of Defence and Ministry of Defence Archive). Not even the theories about much larger numbers. There was litteraly no family without several dead. In my family who were living in SU at that time from the 3 men that were drafted only one - my grandpa returned. And he got badly injured as well. 6 mil seems very low.

>>2241093
>Germans

Are you retarded anon? Or just pretending you don't see the flag?

>>2241269
>Soviets utilised their advantage in manpower

Soviets barely had 120 million to Germany's 80 million, and that's counting all the ethnicity who wanted nothing to do with the country, and people who were just hard to reach and enlist.

During the course of the war until the very last year they were losing far more men than that population difference, and dealing with considerable food shortages on top of that.

I have no idea how they kept drafting more men while Germany was outnumbered 10 to 1 in the last battles, that doesn't make much sense to me.

>>2238508
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I98P1AxQRUM&t=1017s

/his -> no knowledge

>>2242019
Its >>2241343 170/80 which is more than 1:2. Perhaps soviet population was!also younger (a guess didn't check it) and soviers were much more hardcore at using women and children both in war economy and even in the army. Also Germans fought on several fronts.

>>2242104
Soviets lost territories with a lot of population very quickly: Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and the west of Russia. It's at least 30% of all their people. Germans used them as slaves.

>>2242295
Guess what, men from the lost territories (like my family in Moldova) were already in the army by the time they were captured. And many have evacuated. The people under occupation were mostly women, children and old people. Young guys that somehow got stuck there were either involved with the partisan movment, joined the occupation as polizai or were part of national militias that fought both sides. But all weee somehow involved and armed.

>>2242098
The more I've learned about ww2 after high school the more I realize the Germans could never have won. There is literally nothing they could have done so that they would have won.

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>>2242487
This is the best opinion I have read in a while. Winning WW2 was impossible for Germany. Whoever thinks otherwise has been playing way too much vidya or watching way too much Chinese cartoons.

>>2238508
Yes. It resulted in embarrassingly high casualties as well.

>>2242487
Yes it was a real longshot. Still, what if Japan joined in preventing reinforcements and Germans were properly equiped for winter in Moscow?
Or did you mean they couldn't have controlled the huge territory even if barbarosa was successful?
I think they could by establishing smaller free but influenced ethnic states inside USSR. Including in Russia proper by bringing in pre communist elites from immigration. But they couldn't think like that because of their nazi ideology and alienate the locals instead. On the other hand they wouldn't have invaded if they weren't nazis.
But I do think that SU was rotten and could have been toppled but Hitlers autism and barbarity made it into a zero sum game for most soviets. Better be opressed by your own kind than by genocidal foreigners.

>>2242570
Not the WW2 that unfolded but there surely are alternatives that could have happened.

I think the Nazis could have made lasting peace in the west if they would have been ready to immediately release all the conquered territory in West except Alsac-Lorraine. In the east they maybe could have annexed the old territories that the second reich had while granting the poles (limited) self represantation.

After that who knows how history would have unfolded.

>>2242684
>Still, what if Japan joined in preventing reinforcements


Then the Soviets lose out on the all of ONE division transferred from the Far East military district after the non-aggression pact was signed.

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/the-siberian-divisions-and-the-battle-for-moscow-in-1941-42/

>Germans were properly equiped for winter in Moscow?

If you want to bring up winter equipment, how much in the way of food and fuel and ammo are you leaving behind? Your capacity to transport stuff to the front is quite limited.


Not the guy you're responding to.

>>2242570
If they actually recruited 'liberated' Eastern Europeans instead of using them for slavery it could have been significantly more difficult for the Soviets.
At least i recall seeing a documentary where the Ukrainians initially welcomed them as heroes

>>2242949
>If they actually recruited 'liberated' Eastern Europeans instead of using them for slavery it could have been significantly more difficult for the Soviets.


Not him, but they did get several hundred thousand Hiwis. They probably could have gotten more by a lighter step, but given the poor performance of the ones that did fight, I doubt they would have been something that could have tilted the balance of the war.

>>2242949
>At least i recall seeing a documentary where the Ukrainians initially welcomed them as heroes
People had good memories about Germans from WW1. When Fritz passed there second time he was roflstomping red army by the speed of lightning so he could happily disregarded Ukies as subhumans.

>>2238519
Pretty much this.

Sometimes I wonder what the war would be like if it weren't for the officer purge. I still think the Soviets would have shit the bed at the beginning, but I also wonder if there would have been less loyalty.

>>2242684
All of the what-ifs only serve to prolong the defeat. The only scenarios where Germany wins are all ridiculous like Germany getting nukes and leveling cities.

>>2243007
Could Germany have survived if it hadn't invaded the USSR? Was fascism sustainable sandwiched between liberalism and communism

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>>2240460

Although I commend you for going beyond the whole "lololoblitzkriegepiccc" deal, Deep Operation was not feasible with the post-purge STAVKA until sufficient experience had been gained after disprorportionate cost to the USSR through loss of men, materials, and time.

Considering geographic location of Germany, their limitations of resources compared to the Soviet Union, and overall geopolitical situation not favoring Germany globally, one could argue that one of the greatest defenses Germany had against Russia was its dictatorship.

>>2243083

Looking at Franco's Spain I would argue yes, Fascism is absolutely compatible with a peacetime state.

>>2243083

Unlikely; sooner or later, the British are going to drag the U.S. into the war, and even if they can't land on the European mainland, you're going to see nukes on Berlin come August 1945.

>>2243090

To be fair, Deep Operation also needed quite a bit of work from where Tuchashevsky left it off; the multi-axial attack idea is neat in theory, but in practice requires a truly ridiculous amount of buildup to be able to at least threaten to breakthrough along a frontline that can stretch almost 2,000 km long.

Even if you have no purges, you'd probably need to salt the theory with wartime practicality, which will take some time.

>>2242959
They had poor performances because they barley have them equipment and treated them even worse than the Romanians. Hiwis were actuall essential in the later stages of Stalingrad, and when actually given equipment and mixed into German units they performed quite well.

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>>2240603
>Contemporary estimates
>Tactical victory
Gee, I wonder who could be behind this article.

>>2243097
not that anon, but the way Germany was being run at the time, what with all of the jobs essentially in the Arms industry I'm certain the economy would've gutted itself if they didn't start invading shit.

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>>2241910
Mate, can you read? I wrote about military casualties DUE TO COMBAT ACTION. Direct casualties. Not counting MIAs, POWs, and indirect casualties.
But fuck it, alright, let's do it your way.
8-14 mil of casualties on Soviet side? Ok, where are your numbers for Axis then? Ohhh, it's based on your subjective perseption and a story about your relatives, I see now... We don't need numbers then, yes?
But let's give it a try, why not?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union
Here's an english wiki for ya, good? We have:
11 mil operational losses (includes POWs, MIAs and Indirect casualties)
8 mil irrecoverable losses (with returned POWs and MIAs)
6.3 mil casualties of direct combat actions. Oh fuck mate, whaddayaknow? Russian wiki did not lie??? Who would have guessed?!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II
Gonna cite Overman, cos he's numbers are closest to Soviet, so why woudn't I?
5 mil irrecoverable losses
8 mil operation losses (irrecoverable + alive 3 mil POWs held by USSR)

And I'm too lazy to find eastern front losses beside Germany, so I'm gonna cite the same Krivosheev's data:
.7 mil direct casualties + 0.1 mil inderect + 0.6 mil live POWs = 1.4 mil operational

What do we get?
Operational: 11 / ( 8 + 1.4 ) = 1.2 to 1 ratio
Irrecoverable: 8 / ( 5 + .8 ) = 1.3 to 1 ratio
Shit, son, I still see no zerg rush. How so???
Let's even take the wildest reestimates of Soviet losses, that are pulled out of modern russian liberal's arses (14 mil)
14 / 8 = 1.75 to 1. Modafukker, still no zerg rush!!!1111

But it's amazing how people in this thread continue to discuss it without refering to any actual numbers. Case can be solved in like one minute.

>>2245640
Are you upset? You sound upset

>>2242487
>There is literally nothing they could have done so that they would have won.
You are completely and utterly wrong. Kill yourself.

>>2246049
Kewl comment, mate. Pls contribute more. I like your arguments!

>>2241113
Looks like you could use some improvement yourself

>>2246121
You still sound pretty upset and using cringeworthy words like "kewl" won't help it lad. Do you have anger issues? Want to talk about it?

>>2240397
wow this comment is retarded

>>2240562
This makes no sense

>>2241407
>When the battle ended, the soil on the hill had been so thoroughly churned by shellfire and mixed with metal fragments that it contained between 500 and 1,250 splinters of metal per square meter. The earth on the hill had remained black in the winter, as the snow kept melting in the many fires and explosions. In the following spring the hill would still remain black, as no grass grew on its scorched soil. The hill's formerly steep slopes had become flattened in months of intense shelling and bombardment. Even today, it is possible to find fragments of bone and metal still buried deep throughout the hill.

>>2242104
>>2242476
>>2242295

I just don't get why Germany didn't draft more men from France, Belgium and so on.

Or why they didn't go full war machine like the Soviets did.

>>2244024
>Tactical victory
Not a strategic victory because German/Estonian forces were forced to withdraw from the position later due to the general German retreat. Not because soviets forced them out from that specific defense line.

>>2242487
The only way for Germany to "win" WW2 was for Hitler to sign a peace treaty immediately after the fall of France.

>>2241676
Only the immediate force the soviets had along the border was outnumbered. There were large contingents of red army troops stationed deeper within the USSR.

>>2249521
Even then, Stalin would probably just pound the Germans in the ass a few years later.

>>2249557

You mean "reservists called up". They weren't active forces before the war.

>>2240962
He did not. But it's a bit much to suppose a guy who was among the few generals of not wasting manpower frivolously except by folly, as in the case of Warsaw, of coming up with his ideas with the actions of the other civil war commanders in mind.

>>2241238
Penal battalions, actually. They actually did receive guns, but because they were penal battalions soldiers rarely had a gun each.

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>>2250159
Sorry mate, but this is another bullshit propaganda meme.
http://oper.ru/video/view.php?t=1869
Here's a very good interview on ShtrafBat from a live commanding officer and veteran of ww2. Name's Alexander Pyltsin. It's hard to find any info on him in english, but you can use any means of computer translation to read or watch the interview by link above.
He basically states, that penal battalions mostly consisted of army officers, well trained and valued, that for some mishaps were sentenced to serve a few month in penalbats (for few notable battles). Why the hell would you use highly SKILLED and TRAINED officers as dead meat? Do you think Soviets were stupid?
Shtrafbat was supplied with best weapons, had higher wage (yes, there was salary for soldiers in times of war, who would have guessed?) and always recieved more provision compared to usual army parts. For example, Pyltsin states, that his Shtrafbat platoons were supplied with newly developed SG-43 machine gun well ahead of regular army, that still relied on Maxim MG.
Again, just use common sense - there is no reason to send your officers, that you have spend on many resources in military academies, to sure death. It's that simple.

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>>2250706
>there is no reason to send your officers, that you have spend on many resources in military academies, to sure death.

>>2250800
xD

>>2243000
It would have been bad at start, but Soviets would have fared better by having officers that would have prepared army for the Barbarossa and Germans wouldn't had ended up at the gates of Moscow.

>>2250800
Thank you for posting the greatest leader ever, who took a feeble agrarian nation, that lost disgracefuly in russo-japanese war and ww1, and turned it into the pinnacle of human civilization, that could endure the casualties of civil war and ww2, and come out strong with nuclear shield and first ever man in space. Not even talking about human rights advancements. How's that murica of great depression doing? Still not over racism and sexism? No free higher education, free accommodation, free healthcare for everyone?..

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I fucking love when /his/ starts talking about Zhukov, it never fails to bring a smile to my face.

>>2242959
It's not about soldiers. A population that doesn't hate you is willing to go on working in their fields and give a portion of their produce to the occupying power, rather than heading for the hills and becoming partisans.

>>2241534
Georgy "make them cannon fodder before they get older" Zhukov
Georgy "mines were made for walking" Zhukov
Georgy "Shoot em' before they can recruit em" Zhukov
Georgy "Clear that minefield with your heel" Zhukov
Georgy "I eat deserters for dessert" Zhukov
Georgy "Killed more Russians than Ghenghis" Zhukov
Georgy "Cunt-punt of the western front" Zhukov
Georgy "We shall dine in the shade of dead Russians" Zhukov
Georgy "One man killing orgy" Zhukov
Georgy "Killed more reds than the feds" Zhukov
Georgy "8 million more" Zhukov
Georgy "use the minefields as launchpads" Zhukov
Georgy "The Russian Remover" Zhukov
Georgy "Remove Vodka" Zhukov
Georgy "Make the germs squirm" Zhukov
Georgy "One-man-Holodomor" Zhukov
Georgy "The holodomor was a mercy" Zhukov

>>2250886
"Individual marksmanship is never stressed in the red army, the frontovik's objective is to simply exhaust the ammunition of the heavy machine gun emplacements, so that his still living comrades can engage in bayonet combat." - Georgy Zhukov

what the fuck guys are you memeing the greatest military commander of ww2 because hes the greatest or because you are are so stupid
im not sure

>>2250706
>>2250159
>>2250800


Of fucking course, you absolute mongrels. Penal BATTALIONS where only staffed with officers. The enlisted men who fucked up where sent to Penal COMPANIES. Jebus get the basic rights. This entire thread is just like the rest of /his/ a pile of garbage

>>2250998
>Implying I'm not aware of that
How does this change anything? And why would I listen to you, when I can listen to a veteran of Shtrafbat?

>>2250962
I'm not sure of this entire thread being srs.
It's almost like /propaganda_memes/, not /history/

>>2240397
Finnish invasion wasnt going bad because of a lack of competent commanders, the inital plans they had for it were the ones that actually ended up being effective at the end. The problem is that Stalin wanted to show off that they can pull off a blitzkrieg as well so he wanted Finland taken over in 2 weeks. Competent commanders told him it couldnt be done, so he replaced their initial plans to one of his incompetent ones who claimed they could do it. When the invasion turned into months Stalin replaced the incompetent commander with a competent one again who changed the invasion plan back to the one that ended up ending the war.

>>2250854
>No free higher education, free accommodation, free healthcare for everyone
>free
If it was such a pinnacle, why did it collapse?

>>2251037
the biggest lesson of WW2 is that the leaders of Germany and the Soviet Union did everything in their power to go completely against their best interests at every turn, and neither of them had anything to do with anything that went right.

>>2243097
Lol no
T.spanish

>>2238519
This and btw. it wasnt exactly russian troops.
Imagine chinks, hordes of chinks with the first waves.
My grandma still told me until the day she died "those russians arent a problem, its the chinese, the yellow menace"

>>2241997
No I think you are retarded.

>>2238508
No, it was the other way around. Germany zerg rushed everyone and at one point it stopped working.
Kinda funny, that they are making fun of Russians using human wave tactics, when it was their doctrine in WWI, to throw so many man at France, again and again till they will be depleted of manpower.

Googling "Zerg rush" is weird.

>>2241132
This shit is fascinating. Is there an Osprey book or something where I can learn about this?