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>hur hur western culture is so masculine and straight
>mfw people actually believe this
>Given its breadth, the ramifications of male sodomitical practices touched all Florentines in one way or another. So famous was the city on the Arno for promoting it, that in Germany, homosexual sex was described by the verb florenzen, and in France its was called "the Florentine vice."...
>In a phrase destined to become one of the more renowned in Renaissance studies, Rocke describes the omnipresence of sodomy in fifteenth-century Florentine culture: "In the later fifteenth century, the majority of local males at least once during their lifetimes were officially incriminated for engaging in homosexual relations." In this simple and carefully worded statement lies the basis for a radical reappraisal of sexuality in early Renaissance Florence. Sodomy, rather than representing a dusty and esoteric corner of historical analysis, moves to center stage. No longer can modern binaries emphasizing heterosexual relations be taken as an unquestioned given. We must realign our sights on the past, taking into account the cultural norm produced by homosexual relations in early modernity. Another of Rocke's conclusions follows from this . Male-male sexual relations were not eccentric, but they were in fact important constituent elements in the production of Renaissance masculinity and therefore contributed fundamentally to the shape of public life in a broad sense. For the condemnation of homosexual relations did more than yield interest for dowries and build communal brothels, it also structured social relations, and most importantly, relations between men.
When did you realize that artistic cultures are always fantastically fucking gay?
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>>2226186
The same moment I noticed that the most homophobic people/countries are the gayest
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>>2226239
OP is a faggot, q.e.d.
/thread
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>hur hur western culture is so masculine and straight
Just cause its not straight doesnt make it not masculine.
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>>2226239
In turkey you actually need to have sex with a guy before being a faggot.
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>>2226186
>EVERYONE WAS A FAG
This is literally the gay WE WUZ KANGZ
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>The Greeks
>China
>Romans
>Japan
Truly great civilizations are really fucking gay.
Also warrior classes are really into pederasty just look at the Spartans and Samurai.
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>>2226186
>(((Rocke)))
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>>2226643
I didn't know Samurai did that as well.
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>>2226697
yeah same here, until i fell down a wiki rabbit hole.
Turns out the practice was nearly identical, as soon as the younger partner was seen as a grown man you were no longer allowed to fuck him.
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>>2226697
i think it was pretty common in edo period
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>>2226618
have you actually read the study?
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>>2226186
Masculinity ≠ sexual relations. Those Greek boy lovers weren't close to the effeminate weirdos who make up modern homosexuality.
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>>2226186
Shit supposedly happening in once city doesn't prove anything.
Also, there's tons of faggot historians (as in literal fags) who are big on historical revisionism and are desperately trying to portray everything and anything in history as being homosexual, from Alexander to King David to Christian marriage and apparently, the whole Western culture now, as well.
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>>2227835
>Shit supposedly happening in once city doesn't prove anything.
>the greatest artistic period in western history being fucking gay doesn't prove anything
>""supposedly""
kek, i like how you posture as if right-wing revisionism doesn't happen.
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>>2226186
>>hur hur western culture is so masculine and straight
And who said that exactly
Also, just because there's a a trend of homosexuality in a fairly limited location, for a limited period of time, doesn't mean all of Europe is made of raging faggots.
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>>2227855
>being fucking gay
Not only does this fail to understand cultural relativism, it fails to understand differnces existing between Italy and the Anglosphere to this day.
In Italy two men Kiss when they meet each other. Same in Russia. They aren't "homosexual" for doing this. Only by barbaric American protestant standards.
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>>2227863
>fucking someone in the ass isn't gay
Kk buddy
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>>2227863
half of the men in florence were charged with fucking a dude in the ass you retard
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>>2226643
>Japan
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>>2226186
>starting your hypothetical opposing argument with hur hur
stopped reading right there
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>>2227863
>It's not sodomy, you're just not understanding cultural relativism you stupid cishet !!!
l-mao
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>>2227863
>fucking dudes in the butt and kissing them on the cheek is the same thing
Okay buddy.
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Hi, first time on /his/. I thought this board was for real historians for the purpose to discuss accurate storical facts.
Turns out it isn't, so I'll leave, but before I do:
homosexuality was never tollerated in ancient europe, or western civilization in general. It's notorious that pederastry is common for people in position of power (look at pizzagate) and it's one of the many reasons they were heavily criticized. Read Tacitus.
>inb4 tacitus only said those things because he hated le romans and he had to le lie
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>>2228161
I'm not talking about sodomy. I'm talking about the statues and the interest in the male physique. As for rampant sodomy in Florence, it may have been the case but the idea that Florentines were a bunch of gay pride deviants like the modern homosexual "movement" is laughably bad.
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>>2226618
Agreed. As gay myself it makes me feel embarrassed for these faggot wewuzers.
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>>2228192
They fucked each other in the ass. They were faggots.
Fucking cry harder over it, Italaboo.
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>>2228184
>Rome
>western civilization
Fuck off.
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>>2228184
>pizzagate
>a real thing
fucking disregarded
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>Michelangelo was a devout Catholic whose faith deepened at the end of his life.[56] He was abstemious in his personal life, and once told his apprentice, Ascanio Condivi: "However rich I may have been, I have always lived like a poor man."[57] Condivi said he was indifferent to food and drink, eating "more out of necessity than of pleasure"[57] and that he "often slept in his clothes and ... boots."[57] His biographer Paolo Giovio says, "His nature was so rough and uncouth that his domestic habits were incredibly squalid, and deprived posterity of any pupils who might have followed him."[58] He may not have minded, since he was by nature a solitary and melancholy person, bizzarro e fantastico, a man who "withdrew himself from the company of men."[59]
>It is impossible to know for certain whether Michelangelo had physical relationships (Condivi ascribed to him a "monk-like chastity"),[60] but the nature of his sexuality is made apparent in his poetry.[61] He wrote over three hundred sonnets and madrigals. The longest sequence displaying a great romantic friendship, was written to Tommaso dei Cavalieri (c. 1509–1587), who was 23 years old when Michelangelo met him in 1532, at the age of 57. These make up the first large sequence of poems in any modern tongue addressed by one man to another, predating Shakespeare's sonnets to the fair youth by fifty years:
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>>2228328
There's literally no point to sharing what you just shared, it doesn't affect anything anyone said at all.
>reactionaries
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>Beyond friendship, Leonardo kept his private life secret. His sexuality has been the subject of satire, analysis, and speculation. This trend began in the mid-16th century and was revived in the 19th and 20th centuries, most notably by Sigmund Freud.[66] Leonardo's most intimate relationships were perhaps with his pupils Salai and Melzi. Melzi, writing to inform Leonardo's brothers of his death, described Leonardo's feelings for his pupils as both loving and passionate. It has been claimed since the 16th century that these relationships were of a sexual or erotic nature. Court records of 1476, when he was aged twenty-four, show that Leonardo and three other young men were charged with sodomy in an incident involving a well-known male prostitute. The charges were dismissed for lack of evidence, and there is speculation that since one of the accused, Lionardo de Tornabuoni, was related to Lorenzo de' Medici, the family exerted its influence to secure the dismissal.[67] Since that date much has been written about his presumed homosexuality and its role in his art, particularly in the androgyny and eroticism manifested in John the Baptist and Bacchus and more explicitly in a number of erotic drawings.[68]
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>>2228311
t. pedophile
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>>2228367
>(((Siegmund Freud)))
Thread posts: 36
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Thread images: 7