How racist were native africans? I don't mean that in anti-white

>>2224052
Its more of a tribalism thing than a race thing

>>2224052
>what is racism

>>2224052
I feel bad for pigmys desu. They are just small and peaceful people who cheerish life and joy who get rekt constantly by their bigger neighbours. They even made special hiding places in trees only they can access. They even live in the trees for a while.

They are like little wood elves.

>>2224052
Well, there's the Hutu/Tutsi business. But besides that, in the modern day, at least in Uganda, people are more separated by tribe/clan than anything else. It can often be likened to nepotism; someone of clan x can easily find a position in the local police force, or the military, or anything like that if he shares a tribe with a superior.

>>2224052
>Thank gods we advanced beyond these zulu, bushmen and pigmeys.
>we

lighter = better

I'm sure different African cultures felt the same kind of xenophobia towards other cultures that all cultures everywhere tend to feel, but 'racism' doesn't really describe it any more than it would describe rivalry between two Celtic tribes.

What could be described as racism would be stuff like the way pygmies like the Twa were/are treated by Bantus, or the way Habesha Ethiopians treated/treat the tribal people to their south. Racism was strongest though in places like the Sahel, Sudan or the Swahili Coast which were influenced by the Islamic world (which saw the people of the far south and far north as savages) and took part in the slave trade. In these regions there was often an idea that 'blacker' people were natural slaves, though there were also arguments against this by some Muslim scholars.

I haven't actually read this yet but it seems relevant; http://arabicstudies.in.ua/library/general/349.pdf

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No way. Light-skinned Khoisan people were absolutely rekt by the ancient and dark-skinned Bantu invaders.

Robert H.Nassau in his book "Fetishism in West Africa, " points out that coastal tribes found their interior brethren to be less civilized and inferior.

>>2224142
Also the 'Caucasoid' Cushitic pastoralists of Eastern Africa who got replaced by Bantu farmers.

>>2224052
Thank gods we advanced beyond Celts, Gauls and Barbarians. Stuff like that.

>>2224052
Anthropologist know practically every primitives people's words for human involves them and others being subhuman.

>>2224184
>we advanced beyond Celts, Gauls and Barbarians.
To be fair Romans did advance beyond Celts and Gauls in some very racist ways.

They didn't however manage to "advance" the people living in Germany today.

Sub-saharan africans were tribalist, and that's a fluid identity with fluid conflict. Africans from and above the Sahel, on the other hand, were legitimately racist, and still are.

>>2224451
Weren't all people tribalists at some point in history?

>>2224107
They were on the "black=bad" kick long before islam. Even when they got into Islam, effort was put in to keep it from going too far south, because then there'd been legal problems involved with their slaving and raiding.

>>2224052
Those girls look like they need to be WHITED

>>2224191
Well this is correct in the sense that most autonyms are like "true men" "people" "men of men" but that doesn't mean people around them were human, rather it's they believed the way they lived and were was normative and everyone else was either closer or farther from them.
>>2224164
This is ignoring assimilation as being normal amongst pastoralists. Iraqw in Tanzania absorbed many farmers but most cushitics assimilated into farmers or nilotics.
>>2224142
It was cherished but the culture of light skin khoisan was seen as inferior.
>>2224107
Eh I disagree. It was rather an issue of when a people became Muslim and if they could create a ethnomythography aligning to the Prophet or Bilal. The West African nations of Mali were lauded but Zanj not so.

Even that oft quoted piece of Black inferiority in Islam is misquoted. Indeed West African Sahelians were celebrated, the long pagan Zanj were not.
>>2224084
Only in the sense of aesthetic and that's just biological and cultural interpretations of real physical changes
>>2224066
Hutu and Tutsi is simplified.

Administrators of the colonies and later the Protestant and Catholic church pitted the two together. All Tutsi but especially the southern Tutsi absorbed wealthy and powerful Hutu. Poor Tutsi mixed with poor hutu. The lines were not so easily drawn. In fact colonials made all Hutu with ten or more cattle tutsi.

>>2224064
This is a result of the break down in pygmy-Bantu trade relations. Not a dynamic throughout history. Even then Pygmy on average are lighter skinned, indeed their women were sought as wives for their skin but also kin networks of hunters and farm laborers.


>>2224052
Pic shows they are the same people but different mixtures of origins. Most may laud light skin in a partner but again that stems from cultural understandings of fertility. Not outright superiority unless we are talking about Abrahamic Africans.

>>2224464
>They were on the "black=bad" kick long before islam
I don't think that's true. Contact between North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa was very small before Islam and there was no large slave trade. Stereotypes of blacks, like other barbarians, existed in the Greco-Roman world to the north but that hadn't penetrated the Sahara, and even there it wasn't the same as later forms of racism. I think it's also worth noting that the Aksumites willingly adopted the Greek name 'Ethiopians' for themselves, which meant 'blacks' (specifically 'burnt-faced people'), so it hardly seems like they saw blackness as a bad thing.

It was only the penetration of Islam and the rise of the slave trade that made 'racism' a significant thing on the fringes of Africa.

>effort was put in to keep it from going too far south, because then there'd been legal problems involved with their slaving and raiding.
Do you have a source for this? From what I've read, racist attitudes of the time often meant that blacks were enslaved regardless of their religion, despite the disapproval of legal scholars, so there would be no need to hinder it's spread.

>>2224052
Tribalism=/=Racism

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>>2224481

Basically white people are the only racists and are the worst

>>2224497
>It was rather an issue of when a people became Muslim and if they could create a ethnomythography aligning to the Prophet or Bilal. The West African nations of Mali were lauded but Zanj not so.
That's oversimplifying. The likes of Mali or Ghana might have been respected by merchants and scholars, but attitudes towards a specific kingdom doesn't reflect prevailing attitudes towards blacks in general (and I do mean 'blacks', since your average Arab or Berber didn't differentiate much between specific sub-Saharan cultures). The enslavement of West Africans was often justified on purely racial grounds, as blacks were seen by many as natural slaves descended from Ham (scholars like Ibn Khaldun and Ahmad Baba opposed this myth, but the average Muslim still believed in it).

You should read the article 'Ahmad Baba al Timbukti and his Islamic critique of racial slavery in the Maghrib' if you can find it
>Despite the diversity of urban West Africa, slavery and slave trading in the region were often justified by reference to ethnic and racial identities. The earliest North African texts that referred to West Africa described it as the Bilad al-Sudan (‘the land of the Blacks’), often associating Black racial identity with slavery. Although West African Islamic scholarship was already centuries old when Ahmad Baba was born, many North Africans still perceived the region as a land of unbelief. Slave traders used these negative stereotypes to justify both the trans-Saharan slave trade and a form of racial slavery practised in North Africa. These stereotypes may have also facilitated the aggressive foreign policy of Mulay Ahmad al-Mansur, the sultan of Morocco, who invaded Timbuktu in 1591 as part of his conquest of the Songhay Kingdom.

Even the East African 'Zanj' weren't always differentiated from West African 'Sudan', for example the 'Zanj Rebellion' seems to have mostly involved black slaves from the Sudan, not East Africa.

>>2224458
Yeah, I attached no moral judgement to the term. Tribalism isn't so bad, since usually it doesn't make much distinction beyond be the culture and speak the language, meaning that pathways existed towards integration into a tribe as opposed to simple subjugation and maybe extermination.

>>2224555
You're simplifying IMO

Chouki El Hamel, Black Morocco: A History of Slavery, Race, and Islam.

Speaks on this extensively, yes North Africans sought to simplify notions of blackness for their own material gain but in the broader islamic world their was in fact a recognition of different kinds of Black Muslims. They circumvented the "Muslims can't enslave Muslims" by trying to either erase Muslim histories or as Sahelians did by enslaving those whose lands they conquered.

The history of even Moroccan conquerers is complex. Ismail Ibn Sharif was the child of an African concubine and was noted as such by Songhai and others. When he formed the Black Guard he did so by declaring his bloodline to them and commanded that they protect their kin. El Hamel sources and translated this and speaks about it in his book.

>>2224635
I'm not really disagreeing with any of that. I'm just saying that popular attitudes, at least in North Africa, tended to stereotype blacks and treat them as natural slaves, even if they were Muslims.

Book sounds interesting, I'll try to find a copy.

>>2224164
>Nilotic people
>Caucasoid

>>2224458

they still are. we call modern tribal federations "nation states".

>>2224052
Let me put it this way.

Most Bantu creation stories go

>In the beginning there were no humans
>Only animals, plants, and the khoisan

>>2224052
I don't know much about Africans but I doubt they are any exception to the general rule that all ethnicites have hated each other, even other people of the same ethnicity just because they lived in a different village

>>2225281
>and the Khoisan

Meanwhile, the Khoisan don't consider white or black people to be human in their language, but call Asians human. Especially Vietnamese people apparently.

>>2225727
I kek'd heartily when I learned about that. Apparently they refer to asian tourists as their own kindred.

>>2225763
I can see why they would think that. Besides the hair, like for half of them, and asses, Khoisan do look like dark skinned Asian people.

>>2224160

Isn't that generally true of all humans?

>>2224052
Africans from the Bantu language groups habitually eat pygmies.

I think that's all you need to know about intra-African racism.

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>>2224142
>>2226080

this

prior to bantu expansion africa was populated by veddoids/australoids, capoids, ethiopids, nilotes, mechtoids..

The Bantu expanded from Cameroon and culturally enriched the Pygmies & Khoisan, veddoids/australoids, capoids, ethiopids, nilotes, mechtoids..

the bantus are west african origin. the bushmenoids populated most of savanah africa from ethiopia to south africa.
the bantus expanded from west africa and genocided the original bushmens of east, central, and south africa.

pic related is not tolerated in the bantu jungle

>>2227118
bantus, hans, and albert edward the seventh

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>>2227118
>prior to bantu expansion africa was populated by veddoids/australoids, capoids, ethiopids, nilotes, mechtoids..
>Mechtoids
Jesus Christ, how horrifying

>>2224201
Nor the ones in the british isles and all it's subsequent little tumors.

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>>2227140

>>2225226
Not accurate, most modern countries are actually multi-national.

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>>2227118
>tfw I'm Bantu

I'm pretty sure Congolese men treat the pygmies as food lol

>>2227118
The Bantu came from Southern Nigeria actually. West Africa is predominantly not Bantu anon, and I really hope you don't think we are.

And by we, I mean anyone descended from West Africans.

>>2227182
Multi-ethnic and muti-racial, yes. Multi-national is a meaningless term in a world where the soil makes up the nation (as opposed to the race/ethnicity/culture).

>>2225200
>Cushitic pastoralists
>Nilotic
fucking retard

>>2224080
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