Was Rhodesia the greatest nation ever to arise in subsaharan

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>>2206720
No, Lesotho is

No, Ethiopia was

Absolutely.

>inb4 /lit/ sjws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJFRTJgPbU

>>2206739
>Ethiopia

Name a major Ethiopian accomplishment

>>2206730
This
One of the greatest moments in /sp/ history

>>2206720
No.

Extremely bullheaded, stubborn lot that could've saved everyone a ton of bloodshed and prevented the current disaster if they'd voluntarily adopted something like the Lancaster House Agreement from the get-go.

Instead, Ian Smith & co doubled down on an unsustainable system and made some really stupid moves like criminalizing most black African political parties that favored an end to minority rule, then arresting their leadership. They then decided it would be a great idea to imprison all said leaders in a remote camp where they freely mingled, had to cooperate in order to survive, and were basically unsupervised so they could spend their days debating and brainstorming new strategies.

The Rhodesian government then capped this colossal fuckup by releasing said prisoners without putting a bullet in their head first, after they'd had ages to make plans together. Look at the leadership of ZANU, ZAPU, and the other anti-government forces of the Bush War; tons of them met by being locked up together.

yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZLP8Ie5e2g

>>2206720
No but it was one of the better ones.

>>2206800
They literally were so primitive with little idea on how to build up, that they build huge churches by digging them into the ground. Also they were one of the first empires and hold biblical significance.

>>2206808
>could've saved everyone a ton of bloodshed and prevented the current disaster if they'd voluntarily adopted something like the Lancaster House Agreement
>could have prevented it
>if only they'd hve surrendered sooner
Tell me how giving ZANU the country in 1965 would have been any better than giving them it in 1980?

>>2206800

The Kingdom of Axum.

They're also the only African country that defeated 19th c. European colonization efforts and waged war against European armies and won.

>>2206720
No, there are actually countries in Africa that can win wars.

>>2206859
Wouldn't have been Mugabe in charge, in addition it would help avoid violence.

>>2206800
Tankie on Tankie violence

>>2206885
Yeah, they tried that, you cunt. The international community refused to recognise a government not composed of terrorists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Settlement

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>>2206911
fucking UN aaaaaaaaagh

>>2206800
Their civilization is old enough to appear in old testament.

>>2206720
Yes
t. RISE, O VOICES OF RHODESIA

>>2206720
Do we have to have a Rhodesia thread every day

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>>2206862
Axum can get the ax
RHODESIA FTW

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>>2206994
>>2206994
Do we have to have a communist/christ/marx/pol/why do arabs suck so much thread every day?

>>2207015
No we don't but my question was about Rhodesia

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>>2207019
The answer is yes you goober.

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>>2207044
The answer is no. There's no reason we need to obsessively discuss this country other than memes.

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>>2206808
wrong.

>>2206864
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dingo

hue

>>2206720
Rwanda is.
>fought basically everyone south of them at once
>blew the fuck out of the DRC in a crazy 250-man airborne raid to the other side of the DRC only stopped by Angola rolling tanks over the border and some of the motherfuckers even made it back alive
>blew the fuck out of Fireforce, ruining what remained of the Rhodesian military in Zimbabwe
>got concessions in the DRC out of the whole thing

>>2207105
Wiki page pls

>>2207078
>instead of responding to anon posts a macro, which itself does not respond to anything anon said
another mouthbreathing tripfag to filter

>>2207105

If you want good info you'll have to look for stuff focusing on the conflict, nobody big cares about wars between African countries where white people aren't involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War
>In a bold move, Rwandan soldiers under the command of James Kabarebe hijacked three planes and flew them to the government base of Kitona on the Atlantic coast.[17] The planes landed in the middle of the Kitona base, but the motley collection of troops there (ex-FAZ, but also Angolan UNITA elements and former Lissouba militiamen from Brazzaville) were in poor condition and in no condition to fight unless given food and weapons.[18] They were quickly won over to the Rwandan side. More towns in the east and around Kitona fell in rapid succession as the combined RCD, Rwandan and rebel soldiers overwhelmed government forces amid a flurry of ineffectual diplomatic efforts by various African nations. By 13 August, less than two weeks after the revolt began, rebels held the Inga hydroelectric station that provided power to Kinshasa as well as the port of Matadi through which most of Kinshasa's food passed. The diamond center of Kisangani fell into rebel hands on 23 August and forces advancing from the east had begun to threaten Kinshasa by late August.
>several paragraphs about unrelated bits
>A multisided war thus began. In September 1998 Zimbabwean forces flown into Kinshasa held off a rebel advance that reached the outskirts of the capital, while Angolan units attacked northward from its borders and eastward from the Angolan territory of Cabinda, against the besieging rebel forces. This intervention by various nations saved the Kabila government and pushed the rebel front lines away from the capital. However, it was unable to defeat the rebel forces, and the advance threatened to escalate into direct conflict with the national armies of Uganda and Rwanda that formed part of the rebel movement.

cont'd:

>>2206862
>They're also the only African country that defeated 19th c. European colonization efforts

no many African states and nations did resits colonization efforts for respectable periods only succumbing while. Ethiopia just lasted long enough that it survived the scramble but lost just after it (Somali' states lost just before the Scramble ended).

>>2207151
>Mugabe's initial buildup in Kinshasha comprised special forces along with some paratroops, reportedly numbering between 600 and 1,000. By August 1998, two more battalions had been dispatched. They were accompanied by some Soviet-manufactured T-54/55 tanks, Crocodile armoured personnel carriers, and EE-9 Cascavel scout cars flown into the capital on Angolan Air Force planes. The contingent grew to 3,800 around November, and peaked at 12,000 in January 2001. The Zimbabweans began departing in 2002 and had completely withdrawn by the end of the year. Prior to this deployment, Zimbabwe had built up an apparently potent brigade-sized, combined arms, reaction force with efficient air support and professional competence; however the prolonged operations in the Congo are said to have damaged its credibility.[21]

>The Air Force of Zimbabwe made particularly effective use of its air power, blunting rebel and Rwandan offensives on Mbuji-Mayi with repeated strikes by BAE Hawks and Hawker Hunters. It also sustained heavy losses during the conflict, including three of its six Mil Mi-24 Hind helicopters, a transport aircraft, and an unidentified interceptor, probably a Chinese Chengdu J-7.[22] Despite the effectiveness of its highly mobile, big-gunned Eland-90 and Cascavel armoured cars, Zimbabwean ground forces also lost a significant number either captured or destroyed by the rebel coalition.[23]

>however the prolonged operations in the Congo are said to have damaged its credibility.
>It also sustained heavy losses during the conflict, including three of its six Mil Mi-24 Hind helicopters, a transport aircraft, and an unidentified interceptor, probably a Chinese Chengdu J-7.
>Zimbabwean ground forces also lost a significant number either captured or destroyed by the rebel coalition.

Read: Zimbabwe got their heavy gear and aircraft (>bringing an interceptor to a CAS fight) wrecked by a mainly light infantry force in the Rwandans and their allied rebels.

>>2206911
>>2206927

Even though the interference by certain parties was wrong because the voting system was still rigged though.

>>2207180
>Even though the interference by certain parties was wrong because the voting system was still rigged though.
you want to write that again?
in english please.

>>2207180
Why is a rigged voting system a bad thing if most of the population is incapable of running a country?

>>2207247
I dunno, ask pre-election Trump supporters and post-election Hillary supporters.

>>2207453
obviously the people it's being rigged against don't like it

But Africans don't have the ability to run a modern country. Obviously they couldn't be allowed a say.

>>2206730
FPBP

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>>2207164
>but lost just after it
1936 is hardly "just after" the Scramble for Africa.

Aren't you edgy faggots who masturbate to shitty meme countries like Rhodesia because they're so "obscure" and "reviled" just a time bit embarrassed at your complete lack of historical knowledge outside of your autistically narrow niche?

>>2207644
>autistically narrow niche?
lol

Rhodesia was dogshit and the way they set the country up was practically begging the African majority to tear them down.

Rwanda is by far the most impressive African nation. No contest.

>>2207668
See
>>2207078

>>2207678

That stale /pol/ tripe doesn't refute what I said.

>>2207627
Rhodesians don't have the capacity to run a modern county either.

>>2207699
not an argument

>>2207082
And they still fucking lost.

>>2207711

you have yet to pose one single argument

>>2207720
Saying that doesn't make it true.

>>2207729

Then debate.

>>2206864
I frankly wouldn't count it as a loss if you don't lose on the battlefield.

>>2207734
By all means feel free to make a counterargument, and I'll debate you on it.

>>2206720
South Africa was much better than shitty Anglodesia by every single standard.

>>2207738

>Objective: maintain power of Rhodesia
>Result: no longer has power of Rhodesia

That's a loss, anon.

>>2207750
Well they lost the country eventually but they didn't lose the war is what I'm saying.

>>2207753

What was the goal of the war again?

>>2207757
To BTFO the terrorists, which happened. I mean it's like saying you won a football game but on your way back home you got stabbed to death so you didn't really win it. Those two things are not connected.

>>2207763

But the goal of a soccer game isn't to survive a stab attack, it's to win.

The goal of the war was to maintain power of Rhodeisa and they didn't achieve this.

So yes, they are connected.

>>2207771
The goal of the military was to win on the battlefield and they did - everything else is politics and beyond their control. What really ended Rhodesia were western sanctions, all in all Mugabe and the other terrorists haven't really accomplished anything

>>2207750
I bet you think the USA lost vietnam too

>>2207776

And the military belong to whom? Where they a separate entity from the government? Of course not. Everything is politics. Military victories mean diddly squat ultimately. If anything they worked against Rhodesia.

>all in all Mugabe and the other terrorists haven't really accomplished anything

Apart from their main goal of owning Zimbabwe.

Face it. No matter how much mental gymnastics you entertain yourself with, Rhodesia and Ian Smith was defeated.

>>2207779

They did. They failed to achieve their objective.

>>2207785
this is how I know you're trolling

>>2207793

>Can't refute me
>"you're just trolling lol!"

>>2207782
>Apart from their main goal of owning Zimbabwe.
But they didn't do shit, it was literally given to them. It's like counting welfare as salary lol.

>>2207785
The objective was to stop the Northern invasion, sign a peace treaty and fuck off actually. And that was accomplished. Once the North re-engaged, there was no objective for the US anymore.

>>2207797

>they didn't win it fair and square!!!!!

Do you really think this matters?

Also you comparisons are utter nonsense.

>>2207795
You're spooked beyond rational argument. I'm not going to waste my time.

>>2207799

That's a good dose of denial you have there. The US objective was to uphold their Containment Policy towards Communism and to protect the sovereignty of South Vietnam.

They ultimately failed at this. Thus, it is a defeat of American grand strategy.

>>2207803
>didn't win it fair and square
They didn't win it period. It was given to them.

>>2207806

You sound like an SJW who refuses to debate because of "like omg literally i can't deal right now!"

>>2207817
>The US objective was to uphold their Containment Policy towards Communism and to protect the sovereignty of South Vietnam.
Then why didn't they re-engage in '75 if it was their objective?

>>2207823

And yet who sits in Harare?

>>2207826
Because that was no longer a viable option.

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>>2207824
And you're mad as well. Stay that way.

>>2207826

Because they were defeated and could not carry on the war. Everything is politics. Fighting the war and public relations included. The US lost the war at home and the US Government could no longer justify spending enormous amounts of money and losing tens of thousands of lives to its people.

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>>2207835

>I'm mad because someone has no argument

>>2207834
So it wasn't their objective anymore, thanks for confirming what I'm saying.

>>2207837
>they were defeated
How exactly? Almost every NVA and Vietcong operation ended up being a failure.

Why do you care? It's a shithole now.

>>2207846
No, I said involvement was no longer a viable option. Do you think the Iraqis didn't lose the gulf war, or the japanese didn't lose WW2?

>>2207855
Your objective can change. In '75 Americans no longer considered Vietnam to be important enough to go to a war over, so they didn't. If the objective remained the same, they would've re-engaged.

>Iraqis
>Japanese
Those got beaten to hell and back in a war.

>>2207841
>not an argument

>>2207862
No, they're objective merely changed. The emperor himself stated that Japan hadn't lost but had "Developed in a way not necessarily to their advantage." Threy reassed their objectives and decided they no longer wanted to fight the Americans.

Same with the Iraqis. If their objectives remained the same, they would have reengaged, but they never entered kuwait again.

>>2207897
I'm not talking about the Japanese. They were in no position to physically wage the war anymore, they were conquered. America was not and they opted not to re-engage.

>>2207912
>they were in no position to wage war anymore
So it wasn't their objective anymore. Thanks for confirming what I said.

>>2207918
I'm saying you're comparing apples and oranges.

>country that got conquered and isn't able to fight anymore
vs
>country that is fully able to fight but decides not to help their allies

>>2207922
Why can't apples and oranges be compared?

>we won vietnam, we just chose to leave on a flimsy peace deal with our objectives unfulfilled and chose not do anything when the south got rolled by the north
why do americans do this?

>>2207938
>wanting to degrade the debate into intellectual masturbation
Fuck off retard.

>>2207942
If you mean me, I'm not American, but at least I'm fucking educated on the matter.

>>2207942
>why do americans do this?
I've met maybe one person who said we won the Vietnam war in my 21 years of living in America.

>>2207922
Neither country was conquered though. Iraq maintained it's sovereignty and Japan peacefully renogotiated it's position. Ending the war was a political decision.

The Japanese Home Army was undefeated on the battlefield, so you can't say that they lost.

>>2207846
>French booted out of Vietnam
>ARVN and South Vietnamese government defeated and overthrown
>all of Vietnam united under one banner
>Saigon is now Ho Chi Minh City
>defeated PRC annexation attempt
>avoided being made a Soviet puppet

Sounds like victory for the North Vietnamese to me.

Honestly, the fact that the US even went to war in Vietnam was a massive clusterfuck and strategic defeat on their part; the Vietnamese were natural US allies in the region. Spent years fighting the Japanese alongside US troops, hated China's guts, Ho Chi Minh's personal hero was Thomas Jefferson, and they even originally planned to model their post-independence constitution on that of the US.

Literally all the US had to do was sit back while the Vietnamese overthrew their doomed frog colonial overlords, and they would've gained a friendly power acting as a check on PRC ambitions in SE Asia.

>>2207944
Just because you can't answer the question doesn't mean you have to have an autistic meltdown. Also,

>implying the debate could be degraded any more

>>2207952
Ho Chi Minh was an unironic commie though.
There was simply no realistic way for the US to support someone like him publically.

>>2207105
Rwanda was actually one of the few African nations to have a decent military
Until it got btfo by the Tutsis and they all fled to the Congo

>>2207799
>fight someone to a draw
>leave
>they then take over anyway
>somehow not a loss
delusion isn't just a river in Egypt

>>2207990

The Rwandan Army is even MORE powerful under the Tutsi. Their operations doing the Congo Wars and even their insurgency against the Hutu is by far the greatest seen by a native African army.

>>2207846

>Wars are solely won by military operations

You are naive.

>>2208041
>seen by a native African army
it's because of Rhodesia that you have to say "native" in front of that

And yet people still deny Rhodesia's greatness

>>2208045

No, I mean compared to a colonial army actually from Europe. Don't get triggered my /pol/ish friend.

>>2207743
Retard

>>2207247
there was nothing rigged about it, atleast not towards the europeans

1/3 of the seats were guaranteed to go to nogs before there were any nogs, and every nog had the same rights as the civilized man

>>2208050
Nice """argument"""

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Did Rhodhies ever do something wrong?

>>2208807
literally never

>>2208807

yes. Trusted the eternal anglo

HERE'S THE STORY OF RHODESIA

>>2209990
A LAND BOTH FAIR AND GREAT

>>2209166
They were Anglos themselves (OK, some were Slavs and Americans and shit) and they didn't trust the UK which is why they declared their independence unilaterally.

>>2210002
ON THE 11TH OF NOVEMBER

>>2210042
>and shit
Jews and Greeks and Arabs and Chinese and Indians and...

>>2210042
>>2210202
Also blacks. The various black ethnicities were Rhodesians too

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>>2206720
>Was

>>2210079
AN INDEPENDENT STATE

>>2210639
THIS WAS MUCH AGAINST THE WISHES

>>2210294
yes, he should have said "is"
RHODIES NEVER DIE

>>2206800
I am thankful to Ethiopia for the domestication of the coffee bean.

>>2211924
OF CERTAIN GOVERMENTS

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Rhodesia is a respected tradition of this board, and one of its' first. Denying the people Rhodesia is like denying bread for the starved.

>>2212617
WHOSE LEADERS TRIED TO BREAK US DOWN

>>2212654
AND MAKE US ALL REPENT

>>2213003
BUT WE'RE

ALL RHODESIANS

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>>2206740
describes the entire colonization period perfectly

>>2213215
AND WE'LL FIGHT THROUGH THICK AND THIN

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>>2206862
Italians are a fucking joke

>>2213700
KEEP OUR

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>>2213743
LAND A FREE LAND

>>2213802
OF THE ENEMIES COMING IN

>>2213823
*stop

>>2213823
WE'LL KEEP THEM NORTH OF THE ZAMBEZI

>>2208053
The 1979 elections government structure was a joke though read up on how the votes aligned with seats brah.

>>2213857
TIL' THAT RIVER'S RUNNING DRY

>>2214012
THIS MIGHTY LAND WILL PROSPER

Can anyone name a single Rhodesian philosopher, inventor, or artist of note?

>>2214179
>artist of note
clem tholet

>>2206720
It is
Fuck lefty shits in this thread

The fact is everyone here would rather live in Rhodesia then Shitbabwe

>>2214252
no one is denying that but implying that Rhodesia itself was good is a joke considering South Africa was better in every sense of the word.

>>2214358
South Africa was better for everyone under apartheid

>>2214179
John Edmond

>>2213858
>the new Zimbabwe Rhodesia House of Assembly was to consist of 100 members. 20 were to be elected on the old roll with property, income and education qualifications, which most black citizens didn't meet, and which was previously used to elect the majority of the Rhodesia House of Assembly. 72 seats were elected by the "Common Roll" which every adult in the country had a vote. Owing to the lack of an electoral roll, voters were instead marked with ink on their fingers to stop multiple voting. Once the 92 members had been elected, they assembled to vote for eight White non-constituency members. All the candidates for these posts were members of the Rhodesian Front.

So being white basically got you 8 seats to represent you no matter what, 20 common roll seats you could vote in that defacto was for whites and 72 seats you can also vote in as well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dingo

They were operator as fuck

Just can't beat millions of retarded skinnies and no international support

>>2214378
How did it for anyone who wasn't white?

>>2214413
But who wants filthy commies in power?

And if they couldn't meet literacy and basic maths standards then why's should they be able to run?

>>2214420
>who wasn't white?
Who cares? Whites built the nation
Blacks could have built there own shit, but whitey had to and drag them along with them
Just More unthanked white mans burden

>>2214431
SA needed Black and colored labor to compete in the global economy as well as their cheap labour. The reason why hardcore separation was never a thing was because Whites didn't want to lose their house servants and cheap pool of workers for their businesses.

>>2214422
Those elections weren't fair or equal and that's what my post meant. Also having control of the education system where the quality and investment by the government in it's two sets of population is drastically day and night is also tied to the voting requirements (in regards to income and education requirements) it's obvious that investing in Black education be a super low priority past the bare minimum to secure power.

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>>2214431

>>2214431

>live in slum with little education, low wages, not allowed to move around your own country, worse healthcare standards

t-thanks white man!

>>2214085
FOR RHODESIANS NEVER DIE

>>2214634
>your own country
It wasn't theirs, they didn't found it.

>>2215238
>their own country
Perhaps you should look into the history of South Africa and migration, libtard

>>2215473
1. The blacks never founded their own state, after several millenia of living there
2. The area the Dutch landed in was unpopulated.
3. The native Khoisans largely got blown the fuck out by Bantu invadere, meaning that the Bantus who now rule the country, under your own logic, have no right to the land.

>>2215536
>1. The blacks never founded their own state, after several millenia of living there
>Who are the Zulus?
Granted they didn't rule the entire territory, but they did have a state

Wow I'm so tired of seeing this thread everyday.

This board is going to shit. Where are the mods?

>>2216677
Have you been here for a month or something? Rhodie threads are teh backbone of /his/

>>2216677
Mods are non-existant.
It's known that the 4chan staff is heavily undermanned according to a fired mod.

>>2206800
The hominin branch of great apes, particularly the genus Australopithecus and Homo (especially Homo sapiens).

>>2207918
kek

>>2207779
>