Can we all agree he was the greatest strategist, head of state,

>>2205776
Nope, manlet

>>2205776
No.

>>2205776
>greatest strategist
In short-term goals, yes. He also had an intuitive sense of naval matters and finance/commerce, but lacked the tools to fully utilize them.

>head of state
Not really. Giving your siblings and in-laws kingdoms isn't really that effective.

>general
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Say what you want about Napoleon, but even his biggest critics recognize his abilities as a military commander.

>the most charismatic, influential and based human being ever
Ditto. Even his enemies admitted how much of a whirlwind personality he was. A whole era and series of wars was named after him; nobody else can claim that.

>>2205776
75% right. he was an above average head of State. Everything else is pretty spot on.

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>>2205776
yeah, that sums it pretty well...
it has been 200 years since he was ultimately defeated at waterloo and still no one as toppled this guy in any of those aspects you've just mentioned

which says a lot about something: we are getting shittier by the day or this guy was a fucking prodigy

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>>2205776
>greatest strategist
>lost a battle

>>2205776 No, Alexander Suvorov was better

>>2206153
literally who

>>2206153
Alexander as in the Alexander was better.

>>2206153
Did Suvorov conquer Europe?

>>2205776

You forgot the space before your question mark Pierre.

Anyway, Suvorov was better.

>>2206167
Did Napoleon?

>>2206173
Yeah. He just lost it.

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>>2206178
yeah... all of europe... looks just like the roman empire basically... woah...

>>2205815
>nobody else can claim that

lots of people have had wars and 'eras' named after them nigguh

>>2205776

It's either him or Alexander. Shame the story ends in a tragedy.

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>>2205791

>>2206183
>all of europe
>couldn't even take sardinia or poortugal

>>2206183
Well it depends on what your parameters of Europe were. I mean he had the Caucuses to go, and Britain, but some would only consider the continental Europe.

>>2206183
>take on the entire continent that later conquers the whole word
>win but decide it's impossible and unrealistic to annex everything so only make modest demands
>people later claim you were both a ruthless tyrant who made excessive demands and others dismiss your achievements because it doesn't look grosse on a map
ebin

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>>2206212
He took Portugal (well, not personally as it wasnt worth it) in 11 days

>Napoleon ordered Junot to commence the invasion, with the cooperation of three divisions from the Kingdom of Spain.

>Paralyzed by fear and indecision, the Portuguese authorities offered no resistance. Junot occupied Lisbon on 30 November 1807 to find that John and many of the leading families had left for Brazil aboard the Portuguese fleet.

>The French quickly occupied the entire country and appropriated or disbanded the Portuguese army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Portugal_(1807)

>>2206211
Manlet compensating.

>martial arts
>not fucking useless

Learn how to use a gun.

>>2206225
>quickly bogged down in guerilla warfare that drains the French army's manpower harder than 1812 before being driven out
>conquest

spotted the french!

>>2206217
>take on the entire continent that later conquers the whole world

sophistry

>>2206230
>quickly
A year of occupation

>Muh guerilla
Spotted the Portugayse
Guerilla was irrelevant, Brits liberated pussy ass Portuguese

>>2206255
>a year is a vast amount of time

the butthurt frenchy is real

200 years later, you still mad about the war YOU LOST

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>>2206217
>take on the entire continent

AND LOST

L O L !

>>2206268
not at all
he won
and won
and won
and won
then lost

so far no one has been as close to winning as he was

>>2206272

But he lost twice. Shit record.

>>2206272
>Hitler won, and won, and won, and won and then lost

>THAT MEANS HITLER WAS THE GREATEST GUYS

the butthurt frenchy is real

>>2206278
Hitler didn't lead shit.

>>2206281
nice goalpost shift


YOU LOST

DEAL WITH IT

Continue trying to "refute me" in English, Frenchy. :)

>>2206263
I'm not French, but if I was I'd be mad at Russians and Brits, not at moortuguese

>>2206208

As in Alexander the Great, not Suvorov

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>>2206268
They once won a war against the entire civilized world
What other general can claim that?

>>2206278
Hitler didnt lead anything and lost the first coalition war he fought
Hitler's domination on Europe lasted 4 years, Napoleon's lasted for two decades

>>2206325
Hitler didn't exist you moron

>>2206268
The only thing that did him in was invading and fighting the Russian winter. And that was because he did it first, and yet Hitler didn't learn from napoleon.

>>2206278
hitler never won a war against all the european powers
Napoleon did

why do people draw comparisons? is it because anglos are uneducated?

>>2206153
You're the 1st person I've seen here mention Suvorov. He's criminally overlooked amongst historical commanders. He's probably the best that Russia ever produced.

>>2206310
It wasn't just Napoleon, but Desaix, Kleber, and other commanders.

Still it is impressive that Revolutionary France was able to thwart off the might of the European powers.

>>2205978
he literally changed revolutionary France from trash to the most affluent place in europe

>>2206370
A revolutionary. When i think head of state, i think of a Statesman and an Administrator. While he was good, like I said, he isn't really known for it, for good reason. he did issue a great set of laws, though.

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> most influential
Let's be objective here.

>>2205776
It's a tie between Napoleons mentor Dumas and Suvorov.

Napoleon comes in 3rd or 4th honestly, he had one tactic and kept using it for 15 years.

>>2206376
>for good reasons
Name better heads of state
He created most french institutes, universities, a code of law that became the one of most of europe, loved and promoted greatly arts and archeology. It was an actual golden age for sciences.

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>>2206291
Please tell me what you call the entrance hall of a home, cuck island.

>>2206377
> he confuses Muhammad with Ali

triggers me every time

>>2206390
>>2206358
If anything Suvorov is overrated here.
>do one good campaign against turks
>destroy a terrible polish revolution, with barely armed soldiers
>destroy the russian army in Italy
Not a terrific record desu

>>2206414
How would you rate Eugene of Savoy?

>>2206440
Georgy "I hate Germans but I hate Russians more" Zhukov

>>2206445
Highly. Better than Suvorov, though he did less theorical work

>>2205776
Yes

>>2206346
False. He was massively mentally prepared for the russian winter.

>>2205776
Yes, he was the best person that humanity ever had to offer.

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>>2206263
Yeah but it took six wars of united countries to wear him down. As great and the UK was, they never had a legendary battle like Leipzig or Austerlitz. Waterloo and Trafalger are still kind of their big famous battles even though Napoleon won much larger battles against much worse odds.

>>2206227
It's an expression of physical coordination and discipline. A fucking 120 lb woman can pull a gun out of her purse and shoot you, owning a gun instead of knowing how to fight is not the masculine choice.

The ideal is both though.

>>2205791
5`7 was average at that time.

>>2206151
It was never his fault that he lost a battle.

>>2206390
>Napoleons mentor Dumas
do you mean barras because dumas was not his mentor by any stretch of the imagination

>>2205791
neck yourself
>>2208299
average man was short

>>2205776
Yes
I mean who else falls asleep for 15 minutes in the middle of battle and still wins the battle.
Who else was the first European power to invande egypt and win a huge battle (Battle of the Pyramids)
Who else got defeated ONLY by the russian winter. There was not a single significant battle that he lost before he lost his half-a-million-army to the Russian Climate.

>>2206183
nigga that's a fuckload of shit

>>2206390
>he had one tactic
I think you confuse Tactic's with strategy. From a full on frontal assault at Borodino to turning the enemy flank at Wagram etc etc.

I could go on that's just two battles.

>>2208317
>average man was short
The average man was average

>>2208321
I quite agree about Napoleon being the greatest. But he had allready lost more then a third of his army come October 1812.

>>2208344
then why did tons of french people call napoleon short

there are so many sources for the average man being short throughout history so idk what you're trying to prove

>>2208354
>>2208355
>>2208357
But he did conquer most of the world and then it was The End (of Napoleon).

>>2208321
Not just Russian winter. The British trade blockade had hurt not just the traditional French territories but fostered a lot of resentment for Napoleon in his vassals and tributaries.

The British were hounding Napoleon with what was essentially pre-modern state sponsored terrorism too.

>>2208349
>average man being short throughout history so idk what you're trying to prove
The average man is by definition average you dumb shit.

>>2208399
educate yourself retard

>>2208404
>Doesn't understand the meaning of the word average
>Thinks I should educate myself

Right back at ya

>>2208440
average height as a concept didn't exist back then

there were three heights; short, middle and tall; people who met napoleon called him short

i'm done talking to you anyway since you can't be bothered to do your own research

>>2208476
Right average height wasn't a thing back then. That's why we have lists of Grenadiers and Chasseurs and Voltigeurs talking about their average height.

The first recorded time that the arithmetic mean was extended from 2 to n cases for the use of estimation was in the sixteenth century. From the late sixteenth century onwards, it gradually became a common method to use for reducing errors of measurement in various areas.

>>2208476
There were a lot more terms for length than short middle and tall you dumb fuck. People have been measured in feet since fucking 1100.

>>2208494
>That's why we have lists of Grenadiers and Chasseurs and Voltigeurs talking about their average height.
there was no such thing as THE average height

why are you arguing with me about the fact that napoleon was short when everyone who met him called him short
>>2208504
napoleon was short and the average man was short

look it the fuck up, read primary sources for fuck's sake

>>2208515
France, adult man, 1800 - 1820, 164.1 cm average
From: Steckel, Richard H. and Roderick Floud (eds.)Health and Welfare during Industrialization Chicago : University of Chicago, 1997.

Napoopan, 168-170 cm, above average according to my source.

>>2208515
>everyone who met him
Anglo's, all of them

>there was no such thing as THE average height
If there are more than 2 people to measure there can always be an average height.

>>2208528
then why did his friends and contemporaries call him short
>>2208534
no many of his french friends called him short

the average height in the united kingdom was 5' 7" in the 1900s and yet 5' 7" people were still called short

churchill was average height and yet he was short like these are facts that you should know

>>2208541
>then why did his friends and contemporaries call him short
Where do they do this? I read Laura Junot's letters and I can't remember her calling him short.

>the average height in the united kingdom was 5' 7" in the 1900s and yet 5' 7" people were still called short
By you right?

>these are facts that you should know
The fact is that Napoopan was 4 centimeters longer than average making him longer than average making him longer than most of French population. Go back to /fit/ please.
>You should know
Why the fuck does somebodies length interest you this much that you think everybody should know about it. Are you indoctrinated by /fit/?

>>2208551
>Where do they do this? I read Laura Junot's letters and I can't remember her calling him short.
barras
stael
bourienne
>By you right?
by everyone

we all know that churchill was considered short yet he was of average height why are you fighting me on this
>The fact is that Napoopan was 4 centimeters longer than average making him longer than average making him longer than most of French population. Go back to /fit/ please.
and still short

>>2208563
>barras
>stael
>bourienne
>Friends

Every single one of those guys had a bone to pick with the man. Stael even hated him so much she fled france the moment he returned for the 100 days.

>>2208578
well so did permon

random people thought he was short, betsy balcombe thought he was

>>2208584
Ah, an anglo

So far you have only managed to name three of his personal enemies, and an Englishwomen.

Without citations anywhere.

I am truly impressed with your level of scholarship.

>>2208600
yeah that's right betsy balcombe, a fucking child, had it in for napoleon that's why she said he was short

>>2208606
Nice research buddy. Betsy wrote her memoires in articles in 1843 and then in a book in 1844.

>>2208606
>>2208608
Nice citation btw

>>2208608
>>2208610
she was remembering what she thought as a child
>Napoleon’s position on horseback, by adding height to his figure, supplied all that was wanting to make me think him the most majestic person I had ever seen. His dress was green and covered with orders, and his saddle and housings were crimson velvet richly embroidered with gold. He alighted at our house and we all moved to the entrance to receive him.
>On a nearer approach, Napoleon, contrasting, as his shorter figure did, with the noble height and aristocratic bearing of Sir George Cockburn, lost something of the dignity which had so much struck me on first seeing him.