ITT:people you used to think where the baddies before you

>>2159951

Sean Connery is great

>>2159960
>>>/reddit/

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Childhood is idolising the Byzantines.
Adulthood is realising the Ottomans made more sense.

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>>2159951

He just fucked up Iran in a different way. But obviously the biggest baddie here is the eternal Anglo.

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>>2159951
Dude, literally did nothing wrong. Fucking Cleopatra and Republic apologists almost brainwashed me against the GOAT figure in human history.

>>2160021
Who is he supposed to be and what is this from?

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>>2159951

>>2160323
Cao Cao from Three Kingdoms.

>>2159992
Eh not really. Two meme empires stabby stabby people for land.

Though I will agree the Ottomans are underrated historically.

>>2160330
Thanks

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>>2159951

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>>2160010
this

RIP lion of the kavkaz

>>2159951
Che Guevara

>>2159992
fucking Turk, you'll get the Third Uprising right NOW!

>>2159951
Serbs

>>2160317
Except manage to find a suitable heir and manage to keep him from getting assassinated.

Claudius was still salty about it.

>>2160317
Not really. Shouldve eased power back into the senate and just tried to lower corruption.

Fascism is fucking worthless if the leader is corrupt as the corporations, which happened in rome 87 times straight.

>>2159951
My uncle and dad fought against Iran in the war, they said they used children in human wave attacks and gave them keys saying those were the keys to heaven. They also used human wave attacks to clear out minefields, and they encouraged Kurds to carry out terrorist stacks against Turkmen and Assyrians and Arabs.

Fuck Iran, fuck Khomeini.

>>2161720
>My uncle and dad fought against Iran in the war

So they were in the wrong anyway.

>>2161720
>they encouraged Kurds to carry out terrorist stacks against Turkmen and Assyrians and Arabs.
>Fuck Iran, fuck Khomeini.

Your Dad & Uncle's spurious and cynical attempt to forestall and excuse the Iraqi gassing of Hallbja and the rest of the Anfal campaign which included Kurds, Assyrians, Turkmen is pathetic.

And yes, the use of kids by Khomeni and Iran for those actions was cruel and cynical.

>>2161720
Yeah and Iraq used Chem weapons on civilians, and also started it. Those in glasses houses, etc.

And fuck you too, Abu Hurairah ibn Mustafa

stalin did nothing wrong
kulaks deserved it

Caesar

>>2161720
Iran-Iraq war?

>>2159992
This

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Our history teacher taught us that he was a villain.

>>2161992
Fucking Devaboos.

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>>2159951
He did some things wrong, but he was still in the right.

>>2161720
My uncle and dad fought against Iraq in the war, they said they used children in human wave attacks and gave them keys saying those were the keys to heaven. They also used human wave attacks to clear out minefields, and they encouraged Arabs to carry out terrorist stacks against Turkmen and Assyrians and kurds.

Fuck Iraq, fuck Saddam.

>>2161996
De-Valera was fucking great anon. A fine politician.

Got nothing on Collins or Lemass, though.

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>>2159951
>Tries to get a man in another nation killed for writing a novel.
> Fundamentally hates free speech if it disagrees with his dogma

Yep, it's a baddy.

>>2162460

My uncle and dad fought against Lindybeige in the war, they said he used children in human wave attacks and gave them keys saying those were the keys to heaven. He also used human wave attacks to clear out minefields, and he encouraged Arabs to carry out terrorist stacks against Turkmen and Assyrians and kurds.

Fuck Lindy, fuck Beige.

>>2162484
You just misunderestimate his tactical genius. Study history more and you will swing to his branch, guaranteed.

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>>2159992
Whatever you think of the Ottomans, you have to admit they really fixed up Constantinople.

>Saddam Hussein
>Papa Assad
>Germany in WWI
>Serbs in 90's
>Pinochet Chile

I was always an edge-lord that liked the Nazis, and Mosley, and I had fully broken free of sphere-of-influence bias by the time Vladimir Putin incurred the ire of the western hegemony, and we started digging our claws in Ukraine / Maidan broke out / Crimea seceded, so I think I dodged alot of bullets that hit even intelligent. educated people, simply because they exist in a very narrow space of information, and anything (we're told) outside of that info monopoly is "wrong", because the information (monopoly), in our sphere, is "free"

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Actually the opposite for me, I was taught he was a hero, until I realized he was just a pragmatic schemer with good PR. Plus ending apartheid ruined South Africa.

>>2164808
You're a retard if you think Mandela is responsible for the mess in SA. He was the one who moderated the impulses of the radicals to completely fuck over the afrikaners. He had every chance to do to them what Mugabe did in Zimbabwe, but he didn't.

And it's kind of hard to "ruin" a country when the apartheid regime kept 90% of the country in a perpetual underclass.

>>2163103
>finally have a superior army to defeat them chileans
>get cucked by AT and AP mines
el oh el

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>>2159951

>>2165156
My uncle and dad fought against the Taliban in the war, they said he used children in human wave attacks and gave them keys saying those were the keys to heaven. He also used human wave attacks to clear out minefields, and he encouraged Afghans to carry out terrorist stacks against Persians and Pakistanis and Hazaras.

Fuck Mullah,fuck Omar

>>2164889

>apartheid regime kept 90% of the country in a perpetual underclass

Yeah, now it's 89.99999%
Great success
Also dem murder rates

>>2161720
What the hell is a terrorist stack

>>2161782
khomeini was threatening iraq saying he wanted to create an islamic regime (like ISIS now) months before the war started, not to mention he carried out terrorist bombings in mustansiriyah university killing students

>>2161894
anfal campaign was in response to kurds chimping out for the umpteenth time and blowing stuff up. They carried out wholesale massacres of turkmen, they weren't innocent. they deserved what happened to them.

>>2161907
not on civilians, just on invading iranian troops. its no worse than what america did in hiroshima.

>>2161977
yes
>>2165212
*terrorist attacks

>>2165221
>not on civilians, just on invading iranian troops. its no worse than what america did in hiroshima.

t. Saddam Hussein's bastard son

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_chemical_attacks_against_Iran
>Iraq chemical attacks against Iran is referred to chemical attacks targeted by Iraqi army and Ba’ath party against Iranian combatants and non-combatants.

>>2165231
>wikipedia

t. schlomo

>>2165248
Okay: http://www.history.com/topics/iran-iraq-war

You can ctrl+F the parts about chem weapons. Hell, if this isn't sufficient you can always google it yourself instead of taking your family as a reliable account of a war, in which they were the aggressors to begin with.

>>2165257
>aggressors
it was a pre-emptive strike. Iran had been for months threatening Iraq, calling for an islamic revolution, and had carried out a terrorist attack in mustansiriyah university.

>>2165262
Iran didn't carry out a terrorist attack, it was the Shi'a that were treated like second-class citizens in 'your' country that did it.

Saddam wanted Shatt al-Arab, like he too wanted Kuwait's oil, and to quell the upstart Shi'a. Saddam was not a good boy who dindu nuffin--Khomeini wasn't either. But quit being an apologist faggot, it's annoying.

>>2161685
>Ottomans
>Turk
Please, by the 15th century those niggers were more Byzantine than the Byzantines.

>>2165212
A Tanukhid army in Attila TW.

>>2165212
halal pancakes

>>2165275
it was carried out by pro-iranian groups that were trained, supported and funded by iran, so it was for all intents and purposes, it was carried out by iran. And they weren't second class citizens, you're so fucking retarded, you know nothing, I bet you've never even been to iraq and know nothing except what you've read in american magazines.

>>2165366
I've been to Karbala twice. Irrelevant to pre-Iran/Iraq War Iraq anyways.

Second, they were trained and funded by the one-year old Islamic Republic? Trained at what, strapping a bomb to your chest? Why the fuck would an Iraqi need training from an Iranian for that?

Just read a goddamn book instead of taking my word for it, you imbecile. There are loads of articles and evidence that proves Saddam was the aggressor, just like he was in Kuwait, he committed war crimes against Iran, crimes against humanity against the Kurds and Shia, and if there is a hell he is certainly burning in it, and hopefully he, you and your uncle and dad are reunited there one day.

>>2165375
>crimes against humanity
>crimes against the Kurds and Shia
pick one

>>2165382
>Sunni Iraqi
>calling anyone else non human
O I am laffin

>>2159951

fuck this guy

my uncle was jailed for 10 years under his rule

still better than the iraqis doe

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>>2161977
No, the anglo-zanzibar war of 1896

>>2160317
best leader to ever live

>>2165375
Yes the dawa party was being supported and funded by Iran. Secondly Khomeini had been saying for ages he would bring down Saddam and establish Islamic theocracy in Iraq. How is that a declaration of war?

Fuck off. Iranians are not humans, they're animals. That's why we felt nothing when we gunned down their child soldier human wave attacks like the animals they are. They choke good on mustard gas too. The only thing Saddam did wrong was he didn't kill more Persian beasts.

I've seen the way you guys flog yourselves on ashura, you're brains are more like pigs than people. You have no problem sending your kids into machine gun fire and minefields because that's what you Persians are, animals.

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Best day of my life. Fuck Iran.

>>2162389
dev was grand but his supporters are insufferable arseholes

>>2161710
obvious answer but still criminally underrated post

>>2165775
Thode"animals" controlled your people for centuries and they are doing so yet again at this moment. Actually i cant even say that those people have anything to do with you since you guys got cucked into being complete bedouin arab savages.

>>2161720
This guy is trolling

His post is an almost direct quote from a Sally Field movie.

Faggot.

>>2165775
Sunni Arabs are the weakest race.

>>2161720
>My uncle and dad heard war propaganda told to them to hate the enemy more and continue the war effort
>I'm that much of a dumbass to take their word for it
>ignoring the fact that child soldiers were almost exclusively never on the front lines, but were used in a desperate attempt to keep the country from falling to Saddam's hordes

>>2165221
>khomeini was threatening iraq saying he wanted to create an islamic regime (like ISIS now) months before the war started,
Implying that Khomeini was ISIS tier is absolute retardation. He just wanted to export his Islamic Republican revolution to Iraq, also majority Shia country which was dealing with a Sunni Aemrab supremacist dictator

>not to mention he carried out terrorist bombings in mustansiriyah university killing students
Source? Why would Khomeini bomb Shia university students in Baghdad?

Did you know Saddam used to bomb Iranian cities, targeting civilian targets on a daily basis?

>>2161938
word

You should read Molotov Remembers (conversations with Chuev)

>>2166604
>>2161938
As a grandchild of karelian refugees whose brothers and sister were executed, whose nation was targeted for discrimination and their culture suppressed in their native land (which was also made into a battleground thanks to Molotov-Ribbentrop pact) I find it easy to disagree

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>>2159951

>>2166644
Cute. I'm not interested in playing oppression olympics with you. I lost family in 37. I also lost family in the war. If it weren't for Stalin I wouldn't be alive today. I am willing to discuss it in a more nuanced way though, if you are not just a butthurt. "Stalin did nothing wrong" is just a meme for me, I do agree he made some mistakes. But overall I still support him wholeheartedly.

>>2166798
>If it weren't for Stalin I wouldn't be alive today.
Stalin was a catastrophy confirmed

t. other

>>2166870
kek touché

>>2166798
Ironic, because most of my family would be alive today if he didn't exist. He was a paranoid lunatic responsible for war crimes that make uganda look good.

>>2166884
and yet you still escaped which is proof he didn't go hard enough

Speaking honestly, though, Karelia was necessary to defend Peter. Everyone knew this and the war later proved Stalin correct. There will always be collateral damage.

He did become paranoid in his later years but it was all mostly justified. He was right that there were enemies everywhere, look at Malinovsky, look what happened after his death.

>>2159951
Bad guy
>>2159960
Good guy
>>2159992
Stupid.
>>2159996
Xenophobic Jew who was first made into god, then into a passionless hippie by moderns
>>2160194
Bad guy
>>2160317
Good guy
>>2160381
Bad guy
>>2160396
Bad guy
>>2161710
Bad guy
>>2161938
Bad guy
>>2161969
Good guy
>>2161992
Good guy, even though he violated peace treaties to arm the IRA in Northern Ireland
>>2161996
Bad guy, but top tier troll
>>2162108
Stupid guy
>>2162412
Good guy
>>2166632
Good guy
>>2166670
Just doing their jobs

>>2159951

pros
> freed Iran from American control
> ended Shah's rule, a tyrant

cons
> ended Shah's rule, thousands of years of tradition/culture halted
> imposed religous law
> civil rights, freedom of expression, religous tolerance all brought to a halt
> strained international relations
> ruined economy
> pissed off US, actions led to Iran-Iraq war
> because of international relations nuclear power is heavily restricted, cities drown in smog
> caused massive brain drain, scientists/artists/doctors all emigrated

it is currently 2017 and they are just barely getting back to where they were in 1979

objectively a bad leader by any measure

>>2167091
You raise many good points except for
> civil rights, freedom of expression, religous tolerance all brought to a halt
Other than religious tolerance for Baha'is, the Shah was the same with respect to these things.
> ruined economy
That's expected given the extensive nationalistintentions that everyone wanted. The sanctions and war are foreign imposed.
> because of international relations nuclear power is heavily restricted, cities drown in smog
And due to sanctions Iranians rely on technology from the 1970s or earlier to refine their oil into petroleum. Coupled with shitty car engines and millions of new urban inhabitants you have all this smog.

>>2159951
>rallies the people against the shah's totalitarian regime
>people support him, he returns once the shah is deposed
>uses army defectors to consolidate power
>holds """referendum""" to appoint himself supreme ruler
>imposes an even more totalitarian regime than the previous shah's

Intelligent and admirable, can learn a lot from his rise to power. You shouldn't go into history thinking people are good guys or bad guys, everyone just did what they had to do to pursue their own interests.

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One of my heroes, now.

>>2161938
Kulaks deserved worse desu.

But it's true that many innocent people were wrongfully punished for being suspected kulaks. Punishing their family members was also unacceptable.

>>2167002
They weren't bad but they certainly weren't good

>inb4 we dindu nuffin
>R-Rhodesia was a gud boi!

>>2168388
punishing family members was sometimes necessary

but overall there were certaintly excesses

>>2165375
t. Reza the expat

>>2161992
Why anti-treaty people still cannot understand how better would it be if they refrained from their hooliganism back then?

>>2166937
>Caesar
>Lenin
>good guys

Fuck you

>>2161720
Can this be a new copypasta

>>2161720
>and they encouraged Kurds to carry out terrorist stacks against Turkmen and Assyrians and Arabs.
Sounds like a good enough guy to me. Greater Kurdistan when?

>>2166632
My uncle and dad fought against the Bolsheviks in the war, they said he used children in human wave attacks and gave them keys saying those were the keys to the revolution. He also used human wave attacks to clear out minefields, and he encouraged Russians to carry out terrorist stacks against Poles and Turks and Romanovs.

Fuck you,fuck Lenin

>>2159951
>>2159992
The Ottomans were a little too cruel for my taste

>>2165390
This.

>>2166369
Link it.

I thought Lenin was the good guy when I was little. I now realize how wrong I was. Better than Stalin is still not good.

>>2165360
underappreciated

>>2164103
>serbs in the 90's

how the fuck did you fall for this

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>>2164103
T.eenage slavaboo trump supporter

>>2165775
wow this amount of unironic vitriol is unusual even on 4chan.

i guess tensions are high because this war is still being fought right now

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>>2171200
I kek'd.

>>2167091
>ended Shah's rule, thousands of years of tradition/culture halted

that man that called himself "Shah" was a military dictator and a foreign puppet. His "dynasty" consisted of him and his father who was born an illiterate villager. They had nothing in common with the Persian dynasties of old even though they tried to give that impression to the west. They also had very little respect for tradition which is why a revolution by religious traditionalists happened in the first place.
sure, khomeini changed the traditionally quietist role of the ulama to an active role in government but in many ways his faction was more representative of "tradition" than the shah.

>>2166937
>>2166937
>Jesus
>xenophopic
you just went full retard

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>>2159951

>>2161700

That's what makes Augustus great. He was like a Greek tragic hero. All that power, all those accomplishments, everything he did right, and he still couldn't get his stupid family to cooperate for 5 minutes so he could secure the dynasty. Heartbreaking irony.

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>Get told they were terrorists
>They were defending their land from violent foreign invaders that kill the children of their allies and bomb civilians

>>2159969
Quit shilling your homesite, faggot.

>>2161699
Ustasha ili Shiptar?

>>2171164
name 1 (one) bad thing Serbs did during the Bosnian war, except negotiating with scum and eventually losing it

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Dirtbags had it coming

>>2172931
being serbian is generally a pretty bad thing

>>2161720
t. assblasted s*nni

>>2172854
I'm French

>>2172931
>what is widespread ethnic cleansing against Croats and Bosnians

>>2173986
>responding seriously to a shitpost

>>2173986
>ethnic cleansing of Croats
You got that one backwards.

>>2166937
Look you shitdick, this isn't Randy Rates 4chan Murder, we don't need your goddamn opinion on
every fucking historical figure. Do you walk into grocery stores and start rating the produce? Well, shit
this apple's a bit browner than the other, I don't understand this cucumber, that's the best
fucking grapefruit I've ever seen. No, you don't do that. So why the fuck do you think we need
you to analyze every fucking post someone puts up? If I ever see some retard rating asparagus I'm going to walk right up to him and kick him in the dick, because I know with confidence it will be you

>>2173924
>he dindu nuffin

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He didn't know how to run a country, but I gotta admit he was a brilliant guerilla leader

>>2164808
>Plus ending apartheid ruined South Africa.

Apartheid was unsustainable from the beginning. Humans don't like being ruled by ethnic groups that are different from them, so a country where a minority group rules and only views the majority group as cheap labor is inherently unstable.

>>2167002
Rhodesia was also doomed from the beginning.

Colonial imperialists

>>2161710
This nigga

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>>2171164
>how the fuck did you fall for this

Lived long enough for their enemies to reveal their true agenda and put it into practice.

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>>2160021

The thing about being honorable is that it can get you killed.

The thing about being dishonorable is that it can get you killed.

>>2175720
Looking at that photo and the accompanying quote, it almost seems that you're trying to propagate the notion that the muslims started it first and that no fault lies with the balkan slavs, which of course would make you delusional.

>>2171890
Underrated

Literally everything post Rome proved him right.

>>2160194
agreed. Most underrated leader of the 20th Century

>>2175771
>muslims started it first
They did.

>The KLA, formed in 1991, initiated its first campaign in 1995 when it launched attacks targeting Serbian law enforcement in Kosovo, and in June 1996 the group claimed responsibility for acts of sabotage targeting Kosovo police stations. In 1997, the organisation acquired a large amount of arms through weapons smuggling from Albania, following a rebellion which saw large numbers of weapons looted from the country's police and army posts.

>>2161938
>>2168388
kys

>>2177115

and they formed for no reson because before 1991 nothing bad ever happened

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>>2159951
>used to think hitler was some evil crazy person who just killed millions of jews for the hell of it
>start reading about history, realise all the horrible crimes perpetrated by jews across europe and asia against millions of orthodox christians
>"okay well hmm that still doesn't justify killing them all"
>try to realise how hitler worked to negotiate a better solution at every angle
>how he didnt want war but it was forced upon him
>go through a phase where i deny the holocaust completely
>read more about the history of the jews up to and including world war 2, as well as afterwards
>realise that he probably did kill probably around a million jews but it was completely justified given the context and he really had no other choice

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>>2159951
>nationalised oil
>secular nationalist society with freedom of religion
>womens rights
>built roads, schools, hospitals
>national healthcare system
>deported filthy islamist scum and kurdroaches

His only mistake was he underestimated american military strength when he tried to reclaim kuwait (which is legit iraqi clay)

but he was a true nationalist and a patriot who loved his country, i doubt there are many leaders nowadays who you can say for certain love their country.

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>>2159951

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>>2159951
mfw netanyajew thinks this guy is single handedly responsible for the holococks

>>2161720
How's life in Germany, Ahmed?

>>2166937
KYS

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>>2161720
Great post my man.

>>2178583
My uncle and dad fought against Libya in the war, they said they used children in human wave attacks and gave them keys saying those were the keys to heaven. They also used human wave attacks to clear out minefields, and they encouraged Dutch to carry out terrorist stacks against Bavarians and Frisians and Prussians.

Fuck Libya, fuck Gaddafi.

>>2178583
he wanted to introduce a gold dinar to trade oil, that's why they took him out. Libya was a paradise under him, wealthiest state in africa, same standard of living as europeans. now its a failed state thanks to Nato jews.

>>2178585
t. Chad

>>2178605
exactly why i voted trump to stop all the undermining of African counties to cause more refugees

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>>2166937

>>2166937
fucking hate when people do this

we dont want your opinion on every single image you fucking aspie cunt, only comment if you have something interesting to add

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He made a lot of dumb mistakes but I honestly feel bad for this guy
>born with deformed hand
>family fucks you up trying to "fix" it
>mummy is nice to you but the rest of your family is rather cold
>want to be friends with anglo cousins
>all you want is for them to accept you
>but all you get is indifference from them at best; antipathy at worst
>dad and brother die, you become emperor
>your upbringing and life up until this point has given you an inferiority complex and warped your worldview
>trying to be friends with the anglos didn't work so you say "fuck this, fuck them anyway"
>start taking over random shitty parts of africa, building up your navy and just generally dickwaving on the world stage to stick it to the anglo bullies
>archduke gets shot, shit hits the fan and through no real fault of your own, your country ends up in the largest and most devastating war hitherto known to mankind
>cousins in england and russia get sick of your shit and team up with frogs to fuck you over
>you end up as by far the strongest partner in a shitty meme alliance with fucking austria-hungary & the ottomans
>your troops almost take paris but the war grinds into attrition in the west and millions of your people die in trenches
>your powers are slowly taken away by your generals and your country becomes de facto run by a junta
>try to help your enemies' enemies in ireland, india and mexico and it backfires spectacularly
>nevertheless, your armies somehow win in russia and africa
>almost take paris again but get steamrolled by americans
>your own (((people))) overthrow you and your country gets severely fucked in the ensuing "peace" treaty
>everyone blames you for the war
>have to watch from exile as some racist dickhead takes over your country and starts burning books and genociding people
>at least you die peacefully before it completely goes to shit

>>2166798
Stalin and Communists deserve death

>>2178704
Did you miss the part where he was a warmongering asshole who led his country to its doom?

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>>2178756
>>2178704