How do you deal with fanatics? I was arguing with a Muslim and

Its basically impossible unless you get them to deconstruct their own emotional and mental blocks.

>hurrr how I argue with irrational people that already made up their minds and have perfected mental gymnastics

this is a shit thread op

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>>2143893
>taking it out of context
And here it is, the main reason quranists all over the world sit perplexed under live candles, shunned by their tribe so they end up becoming poetic hermits.

Shit is like the enigma machine and it doesn't matter if you are a native Arabic speaker or not, since everyone has their own opinion on how to interpret it, with our without hadifh refrences.

>>2143908

People change their minds. There are former Muslims who convert to other faiths or stop believing. Same for other faiths. So, clearly it's possible somehow. I was just thrown for a loop when they started denying Muslim sources and getting mad about it. I've never seen that kind of denial. It made me think they were trolling at first.

>>2143893
I think the Socratic method works well. If you attack their viewpoints, they go into auto-defense mode. If they themselves reveal their own contradictory beliefs, you can make a crack in their wall.

>>2143918

The weird thing is they were not a Quranist. They listened to hadith, but "ignored ones that clearly went against the morals in the Quran". So, they didn't care about sahih or other classifications by scholars and just picked out what they presumably felt was right.

>>2143925
well at least the silver lining is that most people are ignorant about what their religion is even supposed to be about and tend towards a "live and let live" approach

Let's face it people cherry picking when it comes to books written thousands of years ago can only be a good thing

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>>2143893
Just sit in front of the computer and discuss with them. Google those hadiths. Everyone trust google. Most Muslim are ignorant, the same can be said to Christians.

Now OP, if I may ask, what are your goals talking with the Muslim?

>>2143949

Well, they have since blocked me when I used a tafsir from Ibn Kathir to prove a point. My purpose, though, was to explain what Islam really preaches and advocates for. The original roots of it and as it was/is practiced all over the world. And a "religion of peace" is not it.

>>2143893
Am I reading this correctly?
>How do I deal with fundamentalists? I tried telling some muslims that they shouldn't make friends and should fight unbelievers but they didn't want to go along with me!
Sounds like you are actually arguing for fundamentalism.

>>2143977
why doesn't Aisha want to kill the kuffar with me this Hadith clearly instructs her to instead she wants to marry Mahmoud he doesn't even go to mosque

Reeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>2143977

Because I brought it up when they claimed they followed the Quran the right way and I said "why are you friends with unbelievers when your faith says it's immoral?" She said I was wrong and I attempted to prove my point. I was arguing it to show that Islam isn't this hippie religion she makes it out to be and is actually very strict. I figured if I could convince her on that minor point she'd see the other issues it has. All they did was basically get mad and block me once they started running out of ways to try to defend it.

>>2143991
they were probably sick of being harangued by a fedoralord desperate to get them to admit he's right and blow themselves up at a train station

>>2143893
>said I was wrong and taking it out of context

It's interest since the Quran is meant to be perfectly clear according to the Quran itself and that Muhammad is the 'beautiful' pattern of conduct. Christian Prince an Islamic polemist who is an Arab Christian born in an Arab country, has said that this is normal since Muslims play games to divert the attention away from Islam and onto the person arguing against them.

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>>2143957
Well, those Muslim got no balls. If they're really Muslim, then they should at least reply to you later when they can think of something, instead of blocking you.

Bait them out. Tell them that they're cowards for not defending their own religion. Now, if they finally want to talk to you, reason with them.

Now, regarding your goals, here's FAQ about Islam:

https://ing.org/top-100-frequently-asked-questions-about-muslims-and-their-faith/

Is it about the harsh punishment? Remember there's also harsh punishment in the Bible, example John 8:1-12. For Jesus comes to fulfill the Law of the prophets, not to destroy them.

>>2143957
>tafsir from Ibn Kathir

so apparently the greatest muslim scholar just ain't good enough for them.

>>2143893
That's just what most people of faith do, it's really the opposite of a fanatic. There's plenty of fucked up stuff in the Bible that people ignore. But to answer your question, if they can live with the cognitive dissonance then there's not much you can do, just let it go.

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>>2144001

>use their own religious scriptures and scholars to prove a point about their religion and what it says

>is equivalent to wearing a fedora and being enlightened by my own intelligence

>>2143991
Regarding your question about 'moral of hanging with unbelievers'.

It means that doing bad things with 'unbelievers' (drinking, drug, smoking) is immoral.

But, if it was just about discussing simple matters, then it's ok.

>>2143925
They're debating your interpretation of said sources. Sectarians within major religions disagree on key points of dogma despite sharing similar texts. It's even more absurd for someone outside of a religion altogether to argue with someone within it how to correctly interpret their religion.

>>2144043
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You were haranguing somebody with a benign interpretation of their religion, presumably with a snifter of Laphroaig in hand, online. For what? With the hope that they join your merry band of IRC fedora tippers instead of the more likely response of feeling under siege and becoming overly defensive which is far more likely you fucking autist. How about you chase after hard targets instead of furiously tipping at moderates?

>>2143893
>How do you reason with fundamentalists? Apparently using their own sources doesn't even work.

You are clearly reasoning with a moderate as if they are a fundamentalist, and have nobody to blame but yourself.

>>2143893
Islamic fundamentalists are so terrible because the vast majority of Islam does not condemn them.

To take the Qu'ran literally must become as ridiculous as taking the Bible literally. Those who take fundamentalist views must be deemed heretical by mainstream Islam.

The verse regarding taking "Christians and Jews as friends" is thusly:

>O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliya' of each other. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).
5:51

This was a command to Muslims to not seek refuge in the houses of Christians and Jews whilst at war with the pagans of Mecca, so as not to burden them with their problems.

The verses of the sword, are referring to the aforementioned war, which was defensive, and those commands were to allow for fighting in defense of oneself, as the Muslims were taking the turn thy cheek approach up until the hijra.

There are naturally different interpretations of these verses and their applicability to certain scenarios, but those were the circumstances that surrounded them. How a scholar interprets them, or a believer interprets them, is subjective, and there is few things in regards to theological consensus that all Muslim scholars agree on, except that God is one.

>>2143897
this
fpbp

>>2143893
This >>2143897 for your question and this>>2144257 for what you are doing.

>>2143893
It's like Islam permits lying to non muslims or something.

>>2143939
That's Socratic irony ya dweeb

>>2143893
"Let me tell you what you believe" doesn't work, ever.