>Degree in philosophy Why is this a thing? Why do people actually

>>2141299

Education for education's sake you utter pleb.

>>2141308
>You have to be educated in a school in order to properly philosophize
kek

>>2141308

>McDonald's fry cook calling anyone a pleb

I was able to major in philosophy because I got a job at my Dad's business. I'm a lucky shit.

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>We want a history and humanities board.
>It won't be /pol/ with dates, we promise.
>There is literally a thread asking why people get degrees in philosophy mixed in with endless discussions about WWII.

>>2141343
>He doesn't answer the op

>>2141316
Attempts to do so without a degree usually end poorly.

On a material level, you're right. You could feasibly learn just as much on your own. But people who really care about the subject tend to pursue a degree anyway.

>>2141317
Philosophy is not anywhere close to being a worthless BA. Going by statistics you're in a worse position having studied finance, IT, and even some sciences like Biology.

>tfw you recently graduated with a BA in philosophy and dunno what career to pursue

>>2141299
So that they can transition between certain jobs and/or careers, dumb dumb

>>2141299
>"Son you HAVE to go to college"
>"but I dont wanna"
>"YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE"
>"Alright... I'll do philosophy/sociology/insert any other humanities degree that has no use in the job market"

>>2141523
Mommy can't force an 18 year old adult into tertiary education like she can force an 8 year old to go to Sunday school, anon. You're a big boy and mommy can't force you to take a BA in philosophy if you don't want to.

>>2141523
>university is vocational training

You're just horrible

>>2141523
>>2141537
>>2141542
Not wrong though. Humanitites are for middle age people who are doing well in life and want to learn for the sake of knowledge, they arent for people in their early 20s who are trying to get their shit together, otherwise they'll end up flipping burgers for life. Be like Soren Kierkegaard.

>>2141647
>Be like Soren Kierkegaard.

What do you mean by this? Kierkegaard was a philosophy PHD while in his 20's.

>>2141647
>otherwise they'll end up flipping burgers for life

This is a meme. Mid-career earnings for a philosophy major is around 80k.

http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/majors-that-pay-you-back/bachelors?page=23

Granted, if you want a big payday you go STEM. But claiming that it's either passion or poverty is a false dichotomy.

>>2141674

What's the unemployment rate for philosophy majors though?

>>2141664
Because he was from a rich family, hence he had the financial security needed to pursue a career in humanities without worrying about ending up as low wage slave.

>>2141708
Close to the average of college degree holders in general. I can't find good sources but scattered reports put it around 5-8%.

Most degrees are going to improve your earning potential no matter the subject matter. Unless it's in something exceptionally bad like Early Childhood Education or just too popular like Psychology.

>>2141719
You don't gauge someone's worth based on how much money they're going to be making.

>>2141386
Source on statistic? IIRC philosophy is at 10% hiring.

>>2141386
Finance has like, 70% more employment than philo.

>>2141299
>not getting a law degree
ABSOLUTELY PLEBEIAN

>>2141757
>>2141766
Liberal Arts is around 8% while Business degrees are around 7%.

When I said worse position I was talking earnings.

http://www.straighterline.com/blog/which-college-majors-have-the-highest-and-lowest-employment-rates/

>>2141299
Most of the philosophy majors I knew went to law school (or were planning on it). A lot of people who get history or philosophy undergrad degrees plan to continue their education. The others usually want to pursue a specific job where they need a degree but the specific type isn't important, such as a commissioned officer in the military or a cop.

>>2141674
>Granted, if you want a big payday you go STEM

This is also a meme. Many STEM degrees like BSes in math and physics are about as useful as BAs in philosophy or history in terms of job potential. It's really only the "vocational" degrees like engineering, comp sci, or chemistry that come close to guaranteeing you a well-paid career right out of school.

Majoring in philosophy with a minor in art history too, what is it about my chosen education that makes so many people asshurt?

>PHILOSOPHY MAJORS ARE RUINING AMERICA BECAUSE THEY JUST WANT TO BE LAZY AND SMOKE WEED AND THINK ABOUT DUMB STUFF

Marco Rubio said something similar to that in a Republican presidential debate in 2015. In reality majoring in philosophy from my perspective means majoring in critical thinking and rhetoric. The reason for any kind of liberal arts degree is not usually to draw on exactly what you learned on, like a history major teaching history, but rather to teach you how to think. By majoring in something like literature you aren't taking those classes to learn as much as you can about books, you're taking them because there are many difficult, complex concepts at play in most great novels and by forcing yourself to wrestle with them you are training to grapple with any kind of really difficult problem that requires critical thinking. These critical thinking skills really do prove invaluable in leadership roles which is why a degree in philosophy leads to being well compensated if used properly. In College Cunts (Million Dollar Extreme 2012) Charles compares a liberal arts’ major’s mind to a swiss army knife. He means it as a joke but it really is true that majoring in a humanities field gives you a better ability to adapt to an infinite array of situations.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html

As you can see from this chart by mid-career philosophy majors can actually expect to earn more than accounting, biology, political science, marketing, geology, chemistry, international relations and various other majors. The reality is that philosophy majors do pretty well for themselves in general. I honestly don’t know why so many people dislike the concept of a philosophy major, but I assume it’s because they know nothing about it.

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>>2141299
>>2142087

I just googled it and what he actually said was "We need more welders and fewer philosophers because welders make more money than philosophers, which is completely not true:http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/11/marco-rubio/marco-rubio-welders-more-money-philosophers/

A lot of people seem to have this mentality though that college is a waste of money and time and that if you want to have money you should go to vocational training. There's some truth that vocational training basically guarantees you a job, but if you want to make 6 figures you really do need to go to college. I think it's a blend of anti-intellectualism and anti-elitism that makes people so angry at the concept of some hippy faggot thinking he can just think lofty thoughts and skate through life instead of doing hard, manual labor like welding.

>>2141299
>hey dad im doing good here in college
>there is no need to cut off my credit card access

most philosophy and lit majors end up going to law school

>>2142124
Read The Bell Curve.

College degree is only associated with making money because smart people go to college. I went to college. It's a total waste of time and money relative to what I could have been doing.

Apprentice for free for 4 years and you'll be debt free and a million miles ahead of college grads. Odds are you'll get paid by the time 6 months is up.

The free market is already eating uni's lunch.

https://discoverpraxis.com/ Apprenticeship is the best way to learn anything for both employers and employees.

>>2141741
Degrees don't improve earning potential. Your brains (which you have pre degree) that are sufficient to get that degree is what improves your earning ability.

Cause and effect is not a strong point in the general population. At this point anyone with a brain goes to college and those that don't, don't.

The degree isn't doing shit. It's the ability of the people earning the degree.

>>2141299
The only application I see for humanities degrees is that dystopian diversity officer role which every company will have in the future (if the nationalists loses) due to government rules

& Humanities was a mistake, and I doubt history/philosophy / other fields which isn't feminist studies is still taught & studies by the same type of brainlets

it has to be de-cuntified and perhaps then it could return to being worthy of public funding

>>2142269

maybe you shouldn't have gone to college if you couldn't afford it without taking on tremendous debt? Also, the elite have had their children educated since the concept of education existed, maybe it's because education actually helps people.

Minoring in it. Planning on bbecoming a lawyer

>>2141299
so people can work towards a philosophy phd then become philosophy professors to keep the discipline alive. the fuck you think its for

that being said, most of todays philosophy departments have their heads shoved up so far up their own asses. all this anti-history, heavy use of jargon, use of fashionable thinkers, and inclination towards thinking about things that nobody cares about isolates the discipline and thus kills it. true philosophy happens in the marketplace and not the academy

>>2142279
>pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for left-wing indoctrination or else you'r not smart

ok smart guy

>>2141308
>Education for education's sake
>spend a shitton of money for a piece of paper, yknow, for "education's sake"
>rather than doing your own study


You only get a degree when you want a job in it. That's the whole thing about a degree: it's basically proof you know shit.

>>2141386
The difference is that most philosophy majors don't work in philosophy and when most of them are unemployed the ones that are can expect to make some money but that is around 10% of them kek.

>>2141381
Prove to me that internet philosophers are better once they get a degree in it.

>>2141537
Yes she can.
Most faggots who are 18 live with their parents.
>GO TO COLLEGE OR ELSE YOU WONT GET FREE HOUSING AND FOOD
>Well I never worked a day in my life so I will go philosophy

>>2142477
Retarded blogger "philosophers" never attain a degree. If you want to run a stupid podcast like Sam Harris you don't need a degree, if you want to make original contributions to philosophy you're probably pursuing a degree anyway.

>>2142473
10% of philosophy majors are employed? Where are you pulling this shit.

>>2142483
>not communications

You don't know shit about the low-effort college applicant.

Philosophy majors don't use what they learn. It's pretty much the same as getting a liberal arts degree. You learned fuck all but you got a degree that you can use to get a job in a completely unrelated field.

>>2142496
This largely true, it's about marketing your skillset. During the course of your philosophy program you probably learned a good deal about analyzing texts, critical thinking, and writing in a clear and concise way. You won't spend working hours interpreting Schopenhauer.

>>2141386
That is only because most people who get a degree in biology don't stop at a 2 or 4 year degree. Most switch to med or get something higher.

>>2141490
Ok, but why is philosophy a major? Since you don't get a job in philosophy and since anyone can be a philosopher why does it exist?

>>2141316
>You have to be educated in a school in order to properly philosophize
Isn't your average /his/ thread poof enough of this?

>>2141767
>Being a jew

>>2142488
From his ass.

>>2142087
>Majoring in critical thinking
Then why are philosophy majors so dumb and pretentious?

>>2142269
Managers with degrees > Managers with no degree.
When a man gets older, he is more useful as a manager, as he will find his job to be tiresome.

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>>2142528
You probably don't understand them.

>>2141299


I have explained this many times to plebs, and it seems, there is an endless wave of ignorance here, as it pertains to academic philosophy, who goes through that pipeline, and what they do after schooling.

Let's address what a 'liberal arts degree' is first. A liberal arts is named such after the word 'liberty', as the term comes from studies that free citizens in antiquity would practice. The higher society who had the time for math, astronomy, philosophy, ect.

Let's address what philosophy degrees rally are. Not what is philosphy, but what the pipeline and degree is. It's a piece of paper that says you took four years to study concepts.

As, philosophy is in process simply thinking, and the study of philosophy looks at notable thinkers through history who revolutionized the way we think about things. Philosophy is about the study of concepts.

What do philosopher do after schooling?

A very small percent have a PH.D in philosophy, because very few people becomes head of organizations or pursue professorship.

Most philosophy majors get the degree in conjunction with something else, to be better at the concepts that stem into their field, or psychology is common, because philosophy of mind is very popular as a philosophical new 'wild west'. It also makes much better practitioners of therapy.

MOST PEOPLE, who just get a philosophy degree, do so, because they are wanting to become lawyers.

This is why there are so many jobs in the past for philosophy majors, and a diminishing prevalence of jobs in the field of law because of automation and technology changes - which will be drastic in the future. Ever take the LSAT?


That brings me to the obvious, which should be obvious to anyone who studied how to think:

"Why does everyone earn a PH.D when they learn beyond what a master might have"? What does the PH.D mean? It means 'philosophy doctor in 'x'. you're a doctor in philosophy because you are a master of the concepts pertaining to the field.

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>>2141299
I got mine to teach it.

Though I did get some more "practical" degrees as well.

...Oddly I've never used the practical ones for employment, despite sinking 2000 hours of internship to complete certification one of them. All that did is tell me that I didn't want to work in that field. (Fuck psychology and working in mental hospitals.) But I never regretted "wasting time" learning the finer details of philosophy.

Philosophers these days, as well as for the past two or three centuries, rarely specialize exclusively in philosophy. Instead, they use it to augment some other field, which, all in all, is the intended purpose, and why "Ph.D." used to mean something. In order to be fully versed in most fields (with some obvious exceptions), you should also be versed in the philosophy they are built upon.

So no, I don't recommend training exclusively in philosophy, but if you're well off enough to take some time out for enrichment, as well as practical education, even if only marginally so, take some. A lot of these professions should require at least entry level philosophy, and a lot of the suffering in these fields is caused by the fact that it is no longer a requirement.

>>2142527
How many people actually get jobs as philosophers?

>>2142528

They went to university.

>>2142635
That's not the point. The statistics are compiled from people who have a degree in philosophy. Whether or not the job directly involved philosophy is irrelevant.

>>2142650
So then why is there a degree in it? Why get a degree in it other than that it is easy?

>>2142659
University departments typically don't exist to train you for jobs. Why do people get a degree in it? I imagine that's a difficult question to answer without undertaking a survey. Were I to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because they were interested in philosophy.

>>2142670
88% of people go to college to get a job anon
http://heri.ucla.edu/pr-display.php?prQry=111

>>2142659


Clearly, a troll.

Easy?

Easy is multiple choice questions, and reading a text book. ever been in a math/biology lab?

It's easy shit. You get grades for just showing up in other degrees.

In philosphy, youll expect, per semseter, to read whole books or portions of, form about fifteen different books. Then, instead of tests you can guess on, you have to submit well structured essays spanning more than ten pages, usually.

I say this, as, most people get degrees and only write one or two essays spanning more than ten pages their entire career.

That does not fly when your expected to write a thirty page paper for a guy that studied under the person your writting about. OR, a fifteen page explination of a concept, to the person who is president of a socioty revolving aorund that professor.

You're not just placating a metric and listening to some instructor who knows just as much as the next. You working in a small field, where most philosophers have a VC to show how much they contribute to the field over their career. They cant just 'teach', most of the time.

As such, you're not just hoping to get the right answer, your working with the right answer to expand the field or concept. The worst is when you're forced to use predicate calc as a map to an argument.

What other fields do you have to provide a proof in form to follow in unison with your essay?

>easy

Troll. If you don't know something, don't pretend as if you do. that's what made the people of athen's a bunch of dipshits compared to Socrates.

>>2141767
>not getting a dual mba/jd

>>2142687
Sure, and they can do that with a lot of degrees, those departments aren't focused first and foremost on training you for one though. Universities aren't going to shut down the classical studies department because companies aren't seeking them out.

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>>2142690
I didn't have the energy to touch on why calling philosophy easy is so stupid so thank you my man.

>>2142670
it's because they want to become lawyers or go into law, and know the LSAT is nothing but what you learned in getting a BA.

Every class, there would be a survey into what people are planning to do with their degree. All but three to four people per course would study for some other goal than law. That other most common being psychology, as they want to implement philosophy into therapy.

The next common rarity was the math major. But its obvious why.

>>2142692

>not getting a dual mba/jd

This.

>>2142690
>>2142709

>Science is easy
>Philosophy is hard
Is /his/ filled with idiots or are you both baiting?

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>>2142690
>You can guess on a math or biology test
Was the last time you took a stem class middle school?

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>>2142747
If philosophy is easy, how come high-tier scientists are absolutely shit at philosophy (yet can't stop doing it)?

>>2142753
>He doesn't subscribe to my philosophy
>He is shit at it!
Kek. Teenagers on the way to school pretty much think at the same level as the average philosophy major.
Notice how philosophy hasn't done anything in the last 50 years/

>>2142753
How can someone be "good" at philosophy?
Can someone be good at women's studies too?

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why do people try to get a fancy hat, a trophy or title in sports, a nice car, membership in mensa, an elephant tusk, a gold watch etc etc

it demonstrates to others that you possess something that is difficult to obtain. not everyone gives a flying fuck about money, and people who get degrees in philosophy in particular aren't going to be spooked up by shit like ideas of inherent "purpose", "value", "functionality", "utility" or other subjective/relative bullshit that people follow like a religion.

also, having one can give you a serious edge in art/design. it makes you look impressive and sophisticated to people with more money than you.

>>2142087
>Marco Rubio said something similar to that in a Republican presidential debate in 2015
You already outed yourself as a moron. It was a presidential primary debate, there's a difference. Philosophy retard.

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>>2142753
Except many of the best philosophers were scientists or mathematicians you retard.
Philosophy is the side hobby except to retards who think their subjective opinion is somehow worth shit if they aren't learned in other parts of the world.

>>2142764
Except a philosophy degree is one of the easier degrees to obtain.

>>2142771
I see, so Kant was actually a brainlet retard who was just jealous he couldn't be a scienceman. Thanks /sci/.

>>2142775
Would you please provide proof for your claim?

>>2142782
No, because sources require science and math. I will philosophy you the reason.

>>2142528
? why do you care

>>2142087
You should be able to learn how to think critically through your education of a discipline.

You shouldn't have to spend 4 years simply learning how to think, that's a waste of time. You should study at field (stem or humanities or whatever) and learn and apply critical thinking to your studies. Are you getting your philosophy degree then studying neuroscience? No. But the guy who studied neuroscience graduated learning his field and how to be successful in it using critical thinking and logic.

>>2142768
you didn't make that post seriously did you? wow nitpicking semantics really showed him :^)

>>2142283
ebin

>>2142786
So you will provide an argument? I will wait.

>>2142753
So? Philosophers are complete morons when it comes to math or science.

>>2142775
no, it actually isn't. the only degree that requires a more expansive linguistic and vocabulary base is linguistics itself. there's a reason phil majors have among the highest IQs among degree holders. you have to have a grasp on what language is and how to use it far, far exceeding that of other majors.

>>2142779
Kant and any man in academia back then was trained in geometry at least.

>>2142505
>During the course of your philosophy program you probably learned a good deal about analyzing texts, critical thinking, and writing in a clear and concise way.
This is literally every degree. Like I said here >>2142793


Getting a philosophy degree is stupid because you learn all of those skills in history or political science or biology or geography but you also learn specifics on things you can apply later.

>>2142782
> the five most difficult college majors were chemistry (2.78 average GPA), math (2.9), economics (2.95), psychology (2.98) and biology (3.02).
Of course STEM would be harder retard.

>>2142779
I was just reading Lewis Carroll's book on Euclid and he uses Kant's Critique to make a judgment on the synthetical nature of Legendre's treatment of parallel lines.

>>2142827
You see, the claim I was responding to posited that Philosophy was "one of the easiest". That it might be easier than other degrees was not what I objected to. I would hope he would have some proof that philosophy is noticeably easier than the majority of degrees.

>>2142814
Kek. Look at this brainlet.
>Never took a high level math or science
>Thinks that is hard

>MY DICK IS BIGGER THEN YOURS
>NU UH MINES IS!!!!!!

>>2142837
Considering it's a humanities and humanities on average have a much higher GPA average per class it's a safe assumption that it is no different/

>>2142824
I think you are making a major stretch. Kant really ever only published on or wrote about philosophy. The idea that he maybe studied geometry at some point is irrelevant to the fact that clearly he, an extremely intelligent man, didn't see philosophy as a side hobby.

>>2142861
Too bad Philosophy has been useless for 200 years.
Now that philosophy has been replaced the smartest people on earth concern themselves with other things.

>>2142896
Fuck off Krauss I'm not going to buy your book.

>>2142839
I majored in chemical engineering. I'm just being neutral and objective about what a philosophy degree is and how difficult it is to obtain compared to other degrees. you can look up statistics all you want, they will all reinforce what I'm saying. I'm not going to sit here and spoonfeed you an education, though. educate yourself.

>>2142860
I'm skeptical of judging philosophy specifically by the academic standards of the humanities as a whole, which is a ridiculously broad categorization.

At least one thing singles it out in particular and that's the high IQ of your average philosophy major. It's usually bunched right along with Mathematics and Physics at the very top. If the idea that keeps being parroted in this thread is true, that philosophy is a refuge degree for morons, you wouldn't expect that to be the result.

>>2142914
Why not post that evidence then?

>>2142861
He didn't separate the two, like some autistic sperg retards would.

It took a level of extremely high deductive and inductive philosophical reasoning for Archimedes to come up with his conception of the universe in The Sand-Reckoner, for instance. And that is a highly mathematical text.

>>2142989
That's right most of the people in this thread, including those two morons, are imbeciles.

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>Philosophy is harder than science
Philosophy and Law aren't Women's studies tier but does /his/ actually believe this shit?

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>>2142899

>>2142827
GPA doesn't prove anything. You're not taking into account all the reasons to why people will choose a specific major and the fact that there's personality differences between people in different areas of study.

>>2141299
Look up what PhD stands for and your mind will be blown.

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Philosophy major reporting in.

I usually tend to spend around 15-30/hrs a week doing homework.

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Alright OP i'll bite.

Critical thinking, constructice argumentation, analytic capabilities. Those are (IMO) the 3 major components that sell not only philosphy, but L.A. studies in general as some users pointed out.

But philosophy brings this to the next level, especially the first 2 points, critical thinking and constructive argumentation. Why is this important? Because almost every single job in the western world requires exactly that and a philosophy degree is your proof of having those skillsets. Sure, some jobs require some more knowledge, but that's why there is something called evening school (don't know if it's called that in english, i'm referring to studying besides work). Wanna be a stock broker? A philosophical skill and mindset combined with economic knowledge will make you one of the best. Wanna be a manager? Philosophy combined with good social/logistic/marketing knowledge(skill?) will make you excell as one. Wanna be a politician? Philosophy is the right basis for you. Wanna be an investigator of some kind? Critical thinking given by philosophy is your friend. Wanna be a lawyer? You guessed it, philosophy is just right for you. Even STEM lords can learn a lot from philosophy. A lot of my dearest friends are some of brightest people i know when it comes to maths, theoretical mathematics/physics(this group is kind of an exception i often find), physics, structural engineering and biology, but they can't see past their noses when it comes to anything besides STEM and i still am fully convinced that they will benefit greatly in their livee both personal and work related if they took a semester or 2 in philosophy.

So yeah, summed up: a philosophy degree on its own might not always be enough, but it creates one of the best basics you can have for the job market. And like always: you have to play your cards right.

>>2143595
That literally determines how hard a class is for the average person

>>2143681
Does this count attempted or completed?
There are a ton of people who go into engineering, computer science, ect and flop while at the same time there are a bunch of jews (who have the highest IQ on average) who go into philosophy just to become lawyers.
So no, people who go into philosophy aren't actually that smart.

>>2141343
both of those things are related to history and humanities
quit being pretentious
not all of us are professional university lecture robots, i just browse this every once in a while for fun
seriously, quit being a nigger.

>>2143832
All these mental gymnastics, jesus man.

>>2142753
>If philosophy is easy, how come high-tier scientists are absolutely shit at philosophy
Because they're busy doing science shit and care fuck-all about it.

>(yet can't stop doing it)
[citation needed]

>>2143688
>and a philosophy degree is your proof of having those skillsets
Most degrees would function as proof of having those.

You're right on all your other points, but this meme about critical thinking needs to die already.

http://parvumlyceum.tumblr.com/post/70370676758/what-is-the-university-for

everyone who posted in this thread MUST read this. i have not found any critique of higher education (and especially the humanities) this powerful. read the sparse other posts in the archive as well

t. just graduated

>>2141647
Do you really think that anyone who has the drive to get a "worthless" degree is going to be someone who can stomach flipping burgers for any lengthy period of time? You lack imagination.

>>2142507
This. If you stop with a Bachelor's in Biology you're either retarded or content with being a lab tech for 15 bucks an hour for a long time before you start managing the firm's lab.

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>>2145069
>.tumblr.com

>>2145069
This was a really good read, thanks anon.
Sums up a lot of problems pretty well.

>>2146615
kill yourself

>>2145069
kill yourself too

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Anti-intellectualism is a meme.
Stop it.

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>Major In Philosophy
>Be an ROTC Cadet

Job Security AND i get to do what i love.

>>2146302
>>2146617
clearly did not read the post or doesn't even study. nice!!!