Well? What's so special about Jesus suffering when

>>2125578
Is that guy being whipped and than crucified? If not, he should get a dose of reality.

Jesus could have been up in heaven smoking weed and banging bitches, but he chose not to. You dont have that choice.

>I don't like the guy willing to suffer on my behalf because my life is less than perfect

Atheists are fucking children, holy shit.

>muh sins

lol he died for nothing.

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>I'm a fat autist who's mad girls don't like him, I suffer so much, Jesus

You know, I think a big reason why Xtianity is dying is because people don't know what it's like to actually suffer. People in the Middle Ages knew what it was to suffer, to have hard times, and how hard it would be to suffer willingly for someone.

>Jesus gets off easy, with god taking him and not letting him suffer for days. He does it for the sake of whole of humanity, therefore the reward/cost ratio is gigantic. He also knows he would be back from the dead and that 3 days of hell is just a speck compared to infinity.

>Priest Makymilian Kolbe spent 16 days starving to death in KL Auschwitz just to save one man's life with no certainity whatsoever regarding his afterlife and whatnot.

Whose sacrifice was greater?

>>2125604
There are far worse fates in this world than to be whipped and crucified

>>2125604
neither have you.

>>2125845

Suffering is not quantifiable.

You can say suffering for ten years is greater than suffering for three days, but the brother of suffering is infinity, for all suffering as experience along with pain seems endless at the time it is inflicted.

In the context of Jesus, his sacrifice is that he takes up all of the sins of mankind, past, present and future. It is God himself who suffers by doing this, and if according to the NT bible, God if infinitely loving and merciful, forgiving all of those sins seems all the more painful.

>>2125872


>>Religious nuts believe this.

Top KEK

I don't think it's ever been said about Jesus that he suffered more than anyone else. It was brutal, sure, but the main point is that God, for humanity, became incarnate and allowed himself to suffer and die.

>>2125895

I am not religious.

But in Christianity what sets Jesus apart is his forgiveness of all sin and taking them all upon himself.

Pain and suffering itself is not quantifiable in the way John Stuart Mill describes it to be.

>>2125872
I like your post. Is there a good book on this subject?

>>2125926
The Bible, I imagine.

We deserve to suffer and go to hell. Jesus is the only man ever to not deserve it.

Inb4 slave morality

>>2125937
I mean, for this : "Suffering is not quantifiable.

You can say suffering for ten years is greater than suffering for three days, but the brother of suffering is infinity, for all suffering as experience along with pain seems endless at the time it is inflicted."

1. Your dad isn't God
2. He suffered and died for your sins. You Dior not.

While it is true that Jesus suffered much more that most of people, there are people who suffered even more. How many criminals were crucified in roman empire alone and how many of them lived a harder life than Jesus? Don't forget that Jesus ignored the hardest past of a suffer. He choose to ignore death and that isn't a choice that any other person could realistically made in his situation. Another point is that suffering of the one man can't equal to pain of the entire humanity. Did Jesus suffered more than all people who died in World War II? No person is able to even suffer that much. Divine being, or not.

>>2125965
So... Why Jesus can die for my sins and my dad can't? Is it because Jesus is God and he can just cancel our sins? Than suffering was pointless, as he just used his divine god powers achieve result. Did I miss something?

>>2125872
>if according to the NT bible, God if infinitely loving and merciful, forgiving all of those sins seems all the more painful.

>forgiving someone breaking laws set by yourself is painful
>even more so if you are infinitely merciful

I do not get it.

>>2125989
>as he just used his divine god powers achieve result.

Why would God break his own laws?

>>2126005
How using his divine powers is breaking the law? It wasn't first and only miracle that was done by God and it isn't some kind of a sin to erase people sins.

>>2125989
Yes, you missed the entire gospel.

Jesus did not cancel your sins, he took them upon himself. He who knew no sin became sin. The Spirit fled; the Father turned his back; the Son was forsaken.

The Son bore the wrath of the Father for all of the sins committed by mankind. And survived.

Then the Son died, paying the ultimate death penalty for all of mankind's sins, in full.

God's holiness, justice and righteousness thus satisfied, out of his grace and mercy he offered mankind a new covenant with all who believe in Jesus: eternal life with him, and the recovery of the Holy Spirit of life within our bodies.

Jesus' physical suffering was not nothing, but compared to the psychic and emotional and spiritual suffering, it was literally more than the collective suffering of all mankind combined.

He suffered more than you ever could, because as God he has an infinite capacity to suffer, whereas you would go into shock and die.

Jesus was already God, in heaven. He did not have to manifest in the flesh to save us. He did not have to leave home to die for you. That he did is testament to how much he loves you; that he would rather die than live without you. So he did.

>>2125989
>my dad can't?

Your dad cannot pay for his own sins, as he is a sinner and cannot be a pure sacrifice.

Jesus was the pure sacrifice, the sinless man, the Son of God, uniquely positioned to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the earth.

Without Jesus, every human being since Adam and Eve would just live their lives and go to hell for an eternity. With Jesus, we have hope.

>>2126048

Let me get this straight

>>god creates garden of eden
>>creates adam and eve
>>creates the snake who offers the apple of sin to adam
>>adam and eve sin EVEN though it was god who set all this up
>>fast forward
>>god sends jesus (who is basically an extension of god) to earth
>>jesus dies to supposedly show us he loves us despite our sins

Why didnt god just have jesus die when adam ate the apple? He could have prevented all of this nonsense before it got too big

>>Christianity everyone

>>2126086

If Jesus had sacrificed himself for Adam, Eve and Abel, Jesus would have created the universe to have two brothers and a sister.

As it is, Jesus will have a billion or more brothers and sisters.

While your timeline is technically correct, the absolutely beautiful head of the angels turned himself into the devil, an enchanter/serpent, and mankind, also created "good" to God's standards and immortal, ruined their nature by sinning and becoming mortal and spiritually dead.

God is cleaning up the mess men and angels made. You can choose to be cleaned up, or you can choose to have nothing to do with God. Either way, he's already made eternal provisions for you and will honor your choice.

>>2126086
>Christianity everyone

Yes. The knowledge that Jesus is God, paid the sin debt of humanity, and rose from the dead.

That is Christianity.

>>2125964
Books.
Go to your local library and pick out some books from their philosophy section. After a few years of doing this you will be well read.

>>2126052

If you believe in Jesus, you are believing in an idol god.

>>2126101

This makes no sense whatsoever. Youre just making things up to suite your agenda.

>>2126108
The words "an idol" do not belong in that sentence.

>>2126048
>Jesus was already God, in heaven
That sounds awfully close to monophysite heresy.

>>2126117
No, I'm not Paul the Apostle.

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

>>2126139

Jesus created the universe.

Jesus is God.

That is not close to any "heresy" that exists in Christendom.

>>2126139
1 John 4

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

If you deny Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh, you operate under the spirit of antichrist.

Jesus was as fully man as though not God, and as fully God as though not man. He is the Son of Man, and the Son of God. He exists as a hypostatic union within the trinity.

>>2125604
>Is that guy being whipped and than crucified?
Jesus died at 30, I'd say going through the living hell that is middle/old age combines to be a worse experience.

>>2126144
>Jesus is God.
No, thats saying jesus has one wholly divine nature.
>>2126152
>Jesus was as fully man as though not God, and as fully God as though not man
This is fine.

"my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

What did God mean by this?

>>2126165

The difference between you and Jesus is that Jesus is eternal and came down from heaven to manifest in the flesh, and become the Son of Man via Mary's birth canal.

You literally did not exist until your dad's sperm penetrated your mom's egg.

Other than that, Jesus was as human as you are; tempted at all points as you are; suffered all things as you do; and yet did not sin. Ever. Did not break any of God's laws, even once. Not ever.

To do that, he also had to be the Son of God, as he had to not inherit any sin from his father, God. And he could not be Joseph's heir and take the throne, because Joseph descended from Jeconiah, and his line was cursed to never take the throne.

The more you look into the things of the bible, the more you see. The more there is. Until you realize it's infinite.

>>2126167
I explained above. When Jesus became sin by taking your sins onto himself, the Holy Spirit fled him, the Father turned his back on him, the sun went dark and the earth quaked.

When Jesus' work was finished on the cross, by him saying "it is finished" or more accurately "paid in full", he committed his spirit into his father's hands. Father again, not God.

And because Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to heaven, we know his sacrifice was accepted by the father as propitiation for the sins of mankind.

>>2126181
So Jesus didn't have faith that God was on his side when he took the sins?

>>2125578
>special about Jesus suffering
Because it gives all suffering meaning

>>2126106
I will die soon but it seems like you cannot help me

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How is Jesus' death a "sacrifice" when, all things considered, there was no sacrifice? He knew he would be resurrected, and that his death would be nullified. So already, his death has no real emotional weight. When humans die, they don't come back. But Jesus did, and it really makes his death on the cross feel cheap.

Also, I'm sure that - considering Jesus died on the very same day he was crucified - his death was not particularly painful, especially when compared to the number of humans who have undergone grisly and painfully torturous ways of dying.

Ironically, I'm sure your average heretic being "interrogated" by the Inquisition went through much more physical pain than Jesus.

>>2126193

The night before, Jesus begged for another way, for this cup to pass him by. There was no other way. So Jesus was faithful to the father, even unto death, even the cursed death on the cross.

The Son and Father made a covenant before the creation of the universe, if you can talk about a "before" in a timeless arena. The Son told the Father he would die for humanity if the Father would forgive us, and the Father said he would forgive humanity if the Son died for us.

And God never breaks his covenants.

That didn't stop Jesus from sweating blood the night before though, knowing what was about to happen. And yet he went as the Lamb of God to the slaughter, and performed flawlessly, as usual.

Because he is God.

>>2126174

Why didnt jesus choose to show up now? When there are even more sins to be absolved? Why choose a time when NO ONE could accurately keep records and things can be misinterpreted and skewed to fit an agenda? The agenda being Christianity?

The more you believe in the bible, you more tunnel visioned you become, until you realize the abyss is infinite.

>>2126202

With suffering comes perseverance, with perseverance comes character, and with character comes hope, and that hope is Christ Jesus.

Do not die before you meet with Jesus, and reconcile yourself to him.

>>2126216
The Hebrews kept meticulous records and one of their prophets (whom they disdain) named Daniel gave the exact date the Messiah would appear in Jerusalem. That date was Palm Sunday, Nisan 10, 32 AD.

Without the Hebrews receiving the oracles of God, nobody would be looking for a messiah, nobody would be able to identify the messiah, and nobody would know they needed a messiah.

Jesus never rushes anywhere. He's never running. He's never catching up, or altering his plans.

He just walks through them.

>>2126209

Because if wasn't, Christians would have to admit that their movement was a failure based on lies, proved by the fact that the Apocalypse didn't happen, and probably never will

>>2126231

This post has convinced me you are just a delusional religious nut.
Thanks.

>>2126214
So yes, Jesus basically doubted the whole plan (Which he knew about beforehand) because being nailed to a cross was suddenly too hardcore? Sounds pretty human to me.

>>2125578
According to my primary school teacher, when Jesus died on the cross he went to hell and suffered in the place of all future sinners who repented. No idea how correct she was.

>>2126243
It will happen 7 years after the rapture, which has not happened, and 3 1/2 years after the antichrist causes the abomination in the Holy of Holies in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

>>2126246

The things of God do not make sense to the children of satan.

>>2126247

Indeed. He cherished the title "Son of Man".

>>2126278
She was absolutely incorrect.

The afterlife has two compartments, Paradise and Torment. Paradise is also called the Bosom of Abraham. That's where all of the righteous people who died before Jesus were staying, as their savior had not yet arrived.

When Jesus rose from the dead, he took those people out of Paradise and into heaven. Paradise is empty. Torment, the hot side of the afterlife, is full of people awaiting trial prior to being cast into the lake of fire.

Because none of them, and none of you, on trial for your life, will be able to prove to God that you are as he is.

And standing condemned for not believing in Jesus won't change the outcome.

You want nothing to do with God, ever? He's got a place for that, and will accommodate you.

>>2126350

Didn't Catholics account for this problem with Limbo?

Where righteous pagan people go until the day of judgement?

I do not know if there is any scriptural basis for that though.

>>2126001

>forgiving someone breaking laws set by yourself is painful
>even more so if you are infinitely merciful

The main point of the New Testament is this:

Imagine an all powerful,omnipotent, infinite, all benevolent creator God.

God gives a covenant to the Jews to follow his laws.

God then is born into the earth, to take up all of the sins of mankind, thus forming a new covenant, with everyone not just Jews.

Now imagine that God feeling pain, not just physical pain, but the pain of all sins committed at all times by everyone.

For the God of the New Testament who is a God of infinite mercy and love, this essentially as splitting himself. This God feeling the infinite despair mankind has felt and will feel and takes it upon himself to forgive it. God himself has to die for humans to be free, that is for humans to chose sin and evil or to chose the repentance and love Jesus taught them.

I think this is the beautiful message of christianity, it is so humanly universal, that every time we sin God himself suffers with us, and at the same time so sublime in thinking the beautiful and true as this loving God.

>>2126247
He didn't doubt it, but he was understandably not all that enthusiastic about the whole thing.

>>2126536

>God makes everything
>Makes sin
>Makes it so humans can sin
>Has to self-flagellate to forgive humans for sinning which it invented and it gave to humans

Literally what? Explain.

>>2126460
There are many catholic lies. Believe none of them.

There are none good but God, so there are no "righteous pagans" unless they believe in God, and God has imputed righteousness to them.

>>2126562
God did not make sin. Sin is "missing the mark" of being like God, the same way an archer "misses the mark" by completely and utterly failing to hit the target at all.

Sin is not a created thing; evil is not a created thing. They are failures, and shortcomings, and twisted and perverted good things.

God never caused anyone to sin.

>>2125578
As Borges rightfully claimed, Judas was the actual son of God made to suffer by being damned to hell while Jesus was just a man God was in communication with.

Jesus' suffering on the cross was the moment of damnation for Judas.

>>2126702
>Borges

Never heard of him. Still know he's an idiot.

>>2126702
Borges was a philo-semitic zionist weirdo who wrote half-baked sci-fi stories.

>>2126712
It solves most problems of the trinity and the nature of the sacrifice.

>>2125578
>mocking someone who got fucking crucified
the west sinks to a new low

>>2126589
God made people that are capable of "missing the mark". God is omniscient and knew that people would "miss the mark". God could have created humans not capable of "missing the mark" or just humans that could in some possible world but never do in the actual one.
>God never cause anyone to sin
doesn't follow

>>2126702
This. To be eternally condemned by humanity is a worse fate than to be crucified. To redeem humanity the son of god would have to chose the worst fate.

>>2126725
Not if it includes "Judas" in any way, shape or form it doesn't.

>>2126965
God made people to house the Holy Spirit, and they did.

He gave them free access to as much of anything that they wanted in the entire world, and forbid them from only one thing.

They did not start out as sinners, no. The disbelieved God, believed the devil, ate the fruit, spiritually died, later physically died, and all of their children were stillborn.

While it is true God knows the end from the beginning, you're not even scratching the surface of why this universe was created.

>>2126965

There are three sources of sin.

1. This fallen and evil world we live in;
2. Our own flesh; and
3. The devil and his demons.

God is not on that list.

We sin in God's permissive will, that we might come to know him and choose to love him and be adopted by him into his family, but that is not God's express will that we sin. We are fortunate in that where sin abounds, grace abounds even more.

>>2126722
>The curious inversion of mainstream Christian concepts of redemption in the latter story is characteristic of Borges's approach to theology in his literature.

I think I'll pass.

>Argentinian fantasy writer.

Pass.

This christposting fad really needs to die.

>>2126990
Billions of people are in hell, not just Judas.

And none of them will be remembered.

>>2127042
Yea

>>2125578

Jesus is a clever way to make you feel guilty for your sins. You see, a man died. A man fucking DIED. Because YOU sin. He not only died, he was tortured first. And he wouldn't have done that if you'd kept your sodomite dick out of someone's sodomite ass! So, feel guilty for the rest of your fucking life OR disavow your religion and face our stone-age consequences for heresy!

Jesus is fucking handy!

>>2127045
But Judas will, in the worst possible way. That is His sacrifice.

>>2127062
You are one triggered faggot.

>>2127066
Then he didn't really accomplish anything.

>>2127045
Then, I've got to ask, how can you say that billions are there? You literally claimed that hell has no census, yet you're quoting statistics like Al Gore. You can't have it both ways, Christian.

>>2127072
He accomplished exactly what He wanted: to save us.

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>>2127042

>>2127077
If he's just in hell, who did he set free. He didn't conquer death or damnation.

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>>2127077
From... what? Monsanto? The Military Industrial Complex? Oh, no I've got it - drones! He saved us from drones!

Well, Mission Accomplished motherfucker! lol

>>2127080
He did conquer damnation, as he is damned by humanity for eternity. That is his sacrifice. To limit the sacrifice to the agony of one afternoon on the cross is blasphemous.

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>>2127028
I would like to start an exhibition on just what "God's permissive will" is

I would like to showcase the terrible depths of sin's abundance, and thereby showcase that even-more-abundant grace which permits it.

Each image in the series can be accompanied with the simple caption,"And God was cool with this, too."

Let's start here.

>>2125895
This is such a fucking useless post. Why is there zero moderation?

>>2127104
>heathens getting punished terribly for visiting horrific crimes onto Christians

not seeing a problem here

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>>2127104

"And God was cool with it"

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>>2127096
>damnation, as he is damned

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>>2127117

"And God was cool with it"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffBEdy9pvUE

>>2127066
Nah, he just hung himself, rotted, and tumbled dead down an incline, his guts splattering on the ground, to be buried in the same potter's field the pharisees purchased with the money Judas tried to return to them.

Nobody in a pitch black lake of fire cares who you are when they bump into you, or you into them. It's just all weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, screaming endlessly throughout eternity that you neglected the only hope for mankind, belief in the risen Christ Jesus.

>>2127074
Because Jesus said narrow is the path that leads to life, and few find it; many are on the broad road that leads to destruction.

There are over 7 billion people alive now, and likely 7 billion before that, so taking "most" out of that number is easily billions.

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>>2127114

"And God was cool with it"

>>2127132
And how is that not the perfect sacrifice? God became a man completely, a man to the point of infamy, a man to the point of being reprehensible - all the way to the abyss. In order to save us, He could have chosen any of the destinies which together weave the uncertain web of history; He could have been Alexander, or Pythagoras, or Rurik, or Jesus; He chose an infamous destiny: He was Judas.

>>2127104
Yes, you would include within that exhibit every single sin mankind has ever committed, every atrocity, every murder, every adultery, every rape, every infanticide. All of those sins would be in your museum, which would have to be as large as the planet.

And Jesus took every single one of those sins onto himself; he experienced every single one of those atrocities himself, and then bore the wrath of God upon them all, and survived.

This world will bear the brunt of the wrath of God in the coming years, and it will not survive.

Jesus surviving on the cross is yet another divine miracle proving he is God.

>>2127140
Bruh, in Christian theology, animals are there for the sole purpose of serving man.

They don't have souls.

>>2127141
Nah. Judas is the son of perdition, possessed by satan himself, who betrayed the Son of God to men for money. Judas was a liar, and a thief, and a murderer who was never saved, and even though Judas witnessed Jesus' ministry, never believed Jesus was God.

Just rabbi, teacher.

>>2127136

So... what, 90% of us just aren't good enough, and rather than accept us the way we are, God will punish us in the most excruciating ways possible for not being among the 10%?

God sounds like a fucking terrorist. If the above narrative is a suitable match to your religion, then, I hate your stupid religion.

Now turn the other cheek so I can slap that, too.

>>2127150
>He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

>>2127149

Therefore, God was cool with it. Duh.

>>2127153

Nobody's good enough. Just Jesus.

So if you want to be "good enough", you have to have God impute Jesus' goodness into you.

Which is what we call being born again, or becoming a Christian.

God is not a terrorist, but he is fearsome in his wrath. I suggest not being here when his wrath is unleashed on the universe.

The universe will not survive it.

>>2125604
Civilians in war zones undergo far worst than jesus.

>>2127166
>god is cool with bad things happening to inanimate objects

I'm an atheist, but you gotta step it up.

>>2127165
That's describing Jesus.

Judas is just like his father the devil; a liar, thief and murderer.

Jesus said "Have I not hand picked all of you, and one of you is a devil?"

I don't know where this surge of "Judas" thinking comes from, but keep at it and maybe you'll bump into him one day.

>>2127136

Brothers and Sisters!

I bring news of a God who is responsible for putting 90% of your ancestors into a place of terrible torments, and who will approve of very few of you to have a quality afterlife!

Shall we (A) Fight Against, or (B) Serve this God?

All Gods go to the God graveyard eventually. This particular patriarchal asshole could be in the ground in a few years if we all agree his reign of terror has gone far enough! Church attendance is at all-time lows and dropping, people. Now's the time to get this shitmonkey off our backs once and for all... Atheists unite and believe something together, believe this judeo-christian God to be a tyrant, a despot, an ancient monster we put under our childrens' beds for too long!

>>2127184
Nobody has ever undergone anything worse than Jesus, not all of us collectively.

You're free to rebel against God and believe whatever you want, but you're not free from the consequences thereof.

>>2127190
>All Gods go to the God graveyard eventually.

This is yet another lie.

You can fight the almighty with the devil, if you'd like.

His coup in heaven lasted less than one heartbeat.

>>2125578
Jesus is a kike and therefore his suffering is 6 millions times worse than a goy's

>>2125689

You're worshipping a sterner version of Santa Claus.

Maybe don't judge, eh?

Anyway, its a fair point. Lots of suffering happens on earth to lots of people. Perhaps if Jesus suffered in some unique way, but he didn't. Lots of people were crucified. And lots of those people had to actually wait it out, they didn't have Longinus the Roman-bro to grant them mercy (hey god, remember mercy? Its that thing you didn't have in the Old Testament - weird how an timeless omnipowerful creator deity's personality changes after only a paltry couple thousand years).

Hell, lots of people were killed in far worse ways. Crucifixion is definitely not a nice way to die in any manner - starvation, dehydration and slow choking to death - but there's still a lot worse. Its a 3/10 on the 'how pleasant was my death'-scale at worst. And since we're assuming for the purposes of this argument that he actually IS the son of god, he had the added benefit of 'knowing' 100% that heaven is real and that he's gonna be absolutely fucking fine.

No other human has ever had factual knowledge of the afterlife. He arguably HAS gotten off kind of easy.

>>2127187
Is Jesus despised and rejected by mankind? Is Jesus not an attractive personality? Is Jesus held in low esteem?
Certainly not. The text is a prophecy for Judas destiny.

>>2127185

Wow. Okay. Well, God, being a smart guy, realizes that mankind is supported by an eco-system.

Now, being an old-fashioned hard-core judeo-christian; God views all components of that eco-system to be in-animate objects, just as his followers view their hands and feet and arms and legs as inanimate objects attached to their body.

So, when man shoots himself in the foot (or, shoots himself in the ecosystem as the case may be) one would expect God not to be cool with it.

But God was cool with it.

>>2127194

What's a lie? That God sends most people to hell? HERESY! My pastor said so himself!!! You, sir, are serving the devil with your lies! You need to find Jesus!!

>>2127197
>Perhaps if Jesus suffered in some unique way, but he didn't.

He did, actually.

He was God in heaven, and he let that go to become a human being. Unique.

He is a member of the trinity, and lost fellowship with the other members for a matter of hours. Again, unique.

He took all of the sins of all mankind onto himself and experienced all of them. Unique.

And he suffered the wrath of God and survived. Unique.

His capacity for suffering is more than the collective capacity for mankind's suffering; it's infinite as he is infinite.

And now you're forcing him to suffer yet again by demanding a trial whereby you will show Jesus that you are God. He'll have to destroy you, where he died to save you.

Again, unique.

Crucifixion was so horrific that they had to coin a new word to describe just how painful it is. Excruciating.

But you keep on mocking my Lord. I happen to know he's quite the note keeper.

>>2127198
>Is Jesus despised and rejected by mankind?
Yes, by billions and by the men who conspired to murder him. He was their messiah, and they despised and rejected him.

>Is Jesus not an attractive personality?
You're adding "personality" to Isaiah's description. Nor would I say Judas, a liar, thief and murderer, and betrayer, had an "attractive personality".

>Is Jesus held in low esteem?
Yes. Anything that does not hold Jesus as God, as YHWH, as the Creator of the universe, holds Jesus in low esteem. When he was here, he was of such low esteem that he was crucified between two criminals, and slated to be buried in a pauper's grave.

Follow Judas, end up in hell. That's how this works.

>>2127209

That God is not eternal.

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>>2127190

>>2127212

Is that a threat to include me in some anticipated future form of ethnic cleansing? I can't imagine what your lord would use those notes for, given his heavenly family's judgmental and temperamental track record.

Are you guys planning future genocides, or, giving it a rest for now? Maybe an inquisition? Depending on political factors, perhaps?

lol. Christian wanker.

>>2127220
>Yes, by billions
>Yes. Anything that does not hold Jesus as God, as YHWH, as the Creator of the universe, holds Jesus in low esteem.
Billions despise jesus? That is false. Jesus is loved by christians and muslims, and is respected as a historical figure by other religions and most atheists. The only person rejected by mankind is Judas.

>Nor would I say Judas, a liar, thief and murderer, and betrayer, had an "attractive personality".
So you agree with me. "He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him" describes Judas much better than Jesus.

>>2127212

> But you keep on mocking my Lord. I happen to know he's quite the note keeper.

Has he kept any notes on the hundreds - possibly thousands - of gods that predate any mention of him? That were all, like him, eventually forgotten?

Any notes on Zeus up there buddy? Hows he doing so far?

You're a literal retard. A casual walk through the asylum demonstrates that faith proves nothing.

I wouldn't mind, but nothing else you said made even a lick of sense. Imaginary suffering isn't suffering, and even then the suffering you thought up isn't suffering anyway.

Oh no! God seperated himself from himself! What an issue! Then he suffered the wrath of himself and magically survived... himself. How terrible for him, not to die like all those other humans god apparently fucked over for his own shits and giggles!

Then he died in a way that a lot of humans have also died in, except he got saved and others didnt.

And i like your logic. 'A word was based on this, so it must have been the very, very worst thing'.

There are worse ways to die kid. And yeah, im calling you kid. Because there is no way in hell you're over the mental age of twelve.

Just because you're religious doesn't mean you are allowed to use it as an excuse to be this stupid. Plenty of religious people are really *really* fucking smart. Maybe try to be one of those. I like those guys - they're actually fun to talk to.

>>2127241
Nothing gets clean in hell, and to say I am threatening you is absurd.

I'm telling you what God will do to you if you do not repent and get saved.

I'm talking about the eternal afterlife.

>>2127242
No, I agree with none of your lies, and wonder why you persist in telling them.

>>2127271
There's only one god, and no, the angels have no books kept on them.

You do though.

>>2127191
>Nobody has ever undergone anything worse than Jesus, not all of us collectively.

What about all the other people the Romans also crucified?

>>2127288
>In the world he was, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not

>>2127209

>god sends

Not a Christian, but the idea isn't that God sends people to Hell so much as people, by their own foolish free will, go there themselves by distancing themselves from God (IE acting sinfully).

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>>2127191
>Nobody has ever undergone anything worse than Jesus, not all of us collectively.

Cheer up, Jesus, you know what they say!

>>2126536
>For the God of the New Testament who is a God of infinite mercy and love

That doesnt make sense, the god of the old testament is petty, vengeful, agressive and destructive, you cant just go all "lol, hes all benevolent guys, trust me" on a whim, at least not while claiming hes the same god who did/told his people to do all those terrible things.

>>2127321

I think Augustine tried to explain this by arguing that the old testament was basically given to people who weren't 'ready' for the new testament. They needed more straightforward cause/effect reward/punishment for the buy-in.

>>2127040
>not reading the best literature of the last century

>>2127303
One of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life...

>both getting and completely missing the point

Ecce homo

>>2127291

Okay, so what makes your faith so different to the rock solid faith humans had for their other gods? The ones that predate any mention or worship of your own by thousands of years. Who would have all insisted their own god(s) are the one true god(s)?

They all had their own stories, sects, believers and miracles. Now only historians and other scholars care about them. Because they lived in their worshippers heads, like yours does.

And in a thousand years (or hopefully a lot less) your own god will fade into obscurity and no one will care about him either. They'll all be having arguments over whether to believe in the Almighty Prince or the Animal-Headed God Mickey Mouse instead.

How is your religion different? How is your faith different? 'Cos my god is real'?

C'mon. There's a little germ of logic in your head somewhere, underfed though it is. You must know that argument makes no sense.

> You do though.

I mostly have sci-fi, some classics and philosophy. Not so much on the ancient history.

>>2127342

I thought so too until I read your shitty vapid response to it.

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How did atheism become such a huge, self-sustaining meme, particularly in the past 10 years?

t. used to be an edgy atheist

>>2127342
Then why are you making this dumb choice, to be thrown into hellfire forever?

>>2127184
No, because Jesus was the only sinless one. Our suffering is inconsequential when compared to Jesus because we were all born sinners.
Please go read the bible before you shitpost something you don't know anything about.

>>2127293
They experienced some of the same physical pains.

Had you bothered to read the thread, those were noted as the least of Jesus' sufferings.

>>2127294
Men prefer darkness over light.

>>2127385
What a retard

>>2127384

Atheism has always existed. Hell, technically its been around longer than theism. If only because there must have been a time before man thought up gods.

Its becoming more and more common as people become better educated and the most fervent believers die off.

>>2127330
The Old Covenant was made to demonstrate to people that God's standards were beyond them.

Mankind followed the devil in the Garden of Eden; Eat the fruit, know good and evil, and thus be like God.

Jesus showed them what they had to do in order to "be like God", and they miserably failed. All humans miserably fail to "be like God".

God has a plan to turn spiritually dead people into eternally living new creations in Christ Jesus.

You're either in or you're out.

>>2127351

Faith is not the important part.

The object of that faith is the important part.

A man can have the strongest faith in satan and go to hell, while another man can have the weakest faith in the risen Christ Jesus and go to heaven.

This is not a meritocracy. We all deserve to go to hell.

>>2127393

There will be retards making better choices than "throw me into a lake of fire forever".

>>2127384
The internet desu. You never used to hear the philosophical opinions of those who never read (in particularly philosophy) in their life. Now you have armchair philosophers spouting what they heard on some youtube video/read on wikipedia without any form of critical thinking in order to appear intelligent.

Also the school system teaching that empirical sciences are the end all be all of philosophy when it is just another form.

>>2127395
It's a small subset of awful people who don't procreate.

>>2127404
Only a retard would believe in bullshit without any evidence

>>2127391
False. Most people consider the religion they follow to be good.

>>2127284
"What God will do to you"

Not a threat? I know your God. He's a monster. I know what he does to people he keeps notes on. I've seen it in your scriptures, YOUR holy book!

To insinuate that was not a threat is what is absurd. We all stand accountable before God, do we not? Your use of terror to convert me, while classically Christian, is in this 21st century no less than terrorism. And you can look up your average American definition for the word "terrorist" and you'll find them making religious connections. Well, look at the rafter in YOUR eye, sir!

>>2127400

I hope one day you get better, and find an aspect of your personality that isn't totally insane. But failing that i hope you don't cause to much of an inconvenience for other less mad people, before you die.

>>2127506
>I know your God. He's a monster.

Way to refute yourself in 7 words.

>>2127506
>We all stand accountable before God, do we not?

The saved for rewards once forever housed in heaven, the lost for condemnation and hellfire.

Do those two experiences seem similar to you?

>>2127512

I'll die, and see Jesus.

So will you.

>>2127409
Everyone believes i stuff without evidence, you believe its going to end Y but you domt have any evidence its going to end up like Y, you can only assume, eg believe.
Take communism for instance

>>2127320
Top-tier kek. Top-shelf kek. Name-brand kek. Triple kek. Classic. Kek.

>>2127555
Laughing at Jesus. That's like sipping fine scotch in a posh dive bar with the Most Interesting Man in the World, a chimpanzee, and a couple blondes.

Best kek. Grey Goose of kek. The church will burn you at the stake, but damn you'll burn fast with all that scotch in you. lol The church is a terrorist and we are either its victims or its perpetrators, bystanders are complicit.

Like Nuremberg taught us, bystanders are complicit.

So we heckle Jesus and that's fucking grand, but his followers still want us dead, and that's kinda fucked up if you think about it. It's like ... jihad or something. Jesus "making lists" and "keeping notes" like some intergalactic Santa Claus? His followers saying,"You know what my God did, right? Well he's watching you..."

Tantamount to threats, and for a threat from a screeching mouse I respond the only way I can, I laugh! I riot in my mind and I laugh with millions who are similarly disillusioned.

Jesus still thinks he's lord, because millions who are still under illusion pray in his name. But what if that illusion vanished, without a trace, the way certain movies seem to?

See: http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2016/12/movie-doesn-t-exist-and-redditors-who-think-it-does

What is the illusion we would need to "disappear" if we were to render Christianity powerless overnight?

The illusion of authority, of course.

Would that be so difficult a task to undertake, if we were united in that task the way we were united in the Apollo program?

If Christianity woke up tomorrow morning with no authority, like, the people built themselves an A.I. cyber-pope which represented their will at a mass collective scale, and ceded all church authority to Robo-pope...

We know robo-pope's first intentions, right? We can guess, I don't even have to write them, but we have images trickling to mind already of what "Robo-pope" would mean for this world.

>>2127559

>Dear Antichrist, please come soon and ruin everything.

>t. Triggered Anon

>>2127559
>ceded all church authority to Robo-pope

Oh, like what the bible says will happen from over 1900 years ago.

kek

>>2127585

Bystanders are complicit. Nuremberg. Are you blaming me for not being a bystander? There are other ways of living other than Christianity. Any good idea that requires this much violence and desolation and genocide is not such a good idea. Obviously.

But that's something where, if you come out and say it, you're automatically lumped among the pagan heathen savages which is that convenient "genocide bucket" Christians cultivate.

If they lump you in that bucket, kiss your ass goodbye, because the God of Abraham is sending his hit men soon enough.

Manifest destiny? Wagon train after wagon train of pilgrims... mainly bystanders to the Indian genocides, complicit by convention.

Christianity is indeed walking on water, like how Wile E. Coyote before he realizes he's gone awry of the laws of physics.

This, if anything, proves the power of faith.

It has kept you racist, complicit, and making excuses since 1776.

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>>2127528

Or i can say with as much confidence ill see you in Sovngarde. Or Hades. Or Duat, the Underworld, Yomi, Irkalla or Davey Jones Fucking Locker.

All those people of all those religions, who knew with the same certainty you have exactly where they'd end up.

But you're different to those guys, aren't you? You chose right. Obviously. Your religion is the correct one. Your god is the correct one.

What an irony, that one of the christian sins is meant to be Pride.

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>>2127829
Ha! Davey jones' fucking locker! Classic. *wiping tear*

>>2127524
Okay. He does not condemn the monstrous actions of his followers. It's like he's letting his followers run the show. Manifest Destiny. His pastors were telling their congregations that Savages don't count in the whole "murder" dept. Can't change that, but, Christians don't even want to. That's their sin.

>>2127077
You're right.
That's exactly what THEY teached me; thus, I should teach it to you.

>>2127096
Jesus suffered one day, and died. While Judas is still suffering today and will never know the liberation through death. That is the greatest sacrifice, that is the son of God.

>>2127106
the nazis wanted to supress thought too

>>2125867
I wouldn't say far worse. You'd have to start getting specific and complicated. Of course there is death of 1000 cuts and blood eagle but Jesus also had thorns on his head as well as one of his best friends betraying him. I don't think many things feel worse than betrayal.

>>2127182
God is the universe.

>>2125689
have an upvote.

>>2127209
Alleluia brother

>>2127388
clean your mouth young boi! jesus wouldn't say "shitpost" !!

>>2125578
Most people suffer, this is true. Most people aren't also literally God, capable of stopping said suffering any time that they want to.

Jesus CHOSE to suffer, for a high cause.

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>>2127114
>heathens
Nagasaki was Japan's Christian epicenter.

Keyword, was

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>>2127045
>Billions of people are in hell, not just Judas.
>And none of them will be remembered.

It's an "Anon finds an easy and comfortable way to justify his hatred for people who he would hate anyway" episode.

P.S.: I thought God is love (1 John 4:8).

>>2125708
People in the middle ages were also uneducated bums who would believe anything the clerge would spout.

>>2125911
Pain and suffering itself is not quantifiable

Things such as Schmidt sting pain index and the Scoville scale beg to differ.

>>2125975
>Hardest part of suffering is death.

Tell that to the countless millions who have begged for death for one reason or another.

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>>2126157

It's an allegory, a story, a fable, a narrative, a myth. Anyone who says differently is trolling, whether they know it or not.

>>2128349
he knew judas was going to betray him though

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>>2127191
>Nobody has ever undergone anything worse than Jesus, not all of us collectively.
>christfags will actually claim this

>>2131487
He knew someone was going to, but it he probably just knew like in a small distance of time so he never really had the feeling of acceptance.

>>2125578
I thought he died for our sins. I remember being told it had something to do with animal sacrifices, Jesus gave the ultimate sacrifice, so we don't have to sacrifice, we just have to ask forgiveness.

Isaiah 53:2-6 New International Version (NIV)

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

>>2125578
The point wasn't that he was suffering a lot, a man may suffer horribly for all his life and never become holy for it.

The point was that he was suffering for our sins, to save us from ourselves, the suffering on the cross is just a small testimony of his love for us. If he hadn't suffered, his claim of unbounded love would seem hollow, he could have suffered longer, but I'm not sure what that would add.

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>this thread

Its almost like if you forget the part where he's the son of god, jesus is just like everybody else

Wow, we got a real BIG ONE folks

>>2127191
Lol wake the fuck up kid. You have no idea about the horrors of war; you're so fucking ignorant. "not all of us collectively" what the fuck does that even mean?

>>2127226
What is this fucking guy talking about? Zoroastrians still exist.

>>2126335
Well it's sure taking its fucking time