Why didn't we listen? Why did the world choose that abomination

What would the life of an average wagecuck look like today if De Maistre had been the dominating political theorist of the past two centuries?

>>2124432
>average wagecuck

Would wagecucks even exist?

>>2124513
I'm not sure, I think the majority of those who were not aristocrats, or self-employed would probably belong to guilds. Even if they were traditional wage slaves their life would have meaning, so they wouldn't just hate life and work and then drown their sorrows in hedonistic pleasure during their time off.

"Voltaire, who spoke for decades on every subject without once penetrating the surface of any"

"Voltaire does not err here in the way anyone is apt to. He errs shamefully, in a total eclipse of common sense. Everything which springs from an abuse is an abuse!"

"Dante said to Vergil, honoring him a bit too much, one must admit: Maestro di color che sanno. Parini, although he had his head completely turned, has, however, had the courage to say to Voltaire, parodying Dante: Sei Maestro ... di coloro che credon che sanno - an apt remark"

" If venality be considered only as a means of inheritance, every fair-minded person is struck by this point of view, the true one. This is not the place to discuss the matter at length? but it is already demonstrated that Voltaire was completely unaware of it."

"Man is forbidden to give great names to works of his which he considers mighty. But if be has proceeded legitimately, the common names for the work will be ennobled by it and become great. I recall no famous epithet of Voltaire - perhaps this is merely due to forgetfulness on my part."

How can one man get so BTFO?

>What was novel in Maistre's writings was not his enthusiastic defense of monarchical and religious authority per se, but rather his arguments concerning the practical need for ultimate authority to lie with an individual capable of decisive action, as well as his analysis of the social foundations of that authority's legitimacy. [government must be based on compelling but non-rational grounds, which its subjects must not be allowed to question]

How is this novel? Didn't Plato suggest the same golden myth for the masses.

As a side note, I also recall Richard Rorty going on about the opposite of this doctrine. That the Latin-American countries were no longer able to use a divine justification to form new constitutions, they would need an ethnic justification.

>>2124422
Probably because the divine right of kings is a stupid idea and a republic in which all are equal in the eyes of the law isn't.

>>2124535
That is so incredibly misinformed its hard to know where to begin.

perhaps I will just point out guilds were as exploitative as any corporation, and they relied on cheap temporary labor to get things done.

>>2124566
>he thinks rationality works

Experience proves it wrong again and again.

With respect to population, commerce, prohibitory legislation, and a thousand other important subjects, the most plausible theory is almost always found contradicted and brought to nothing by experience. Let us cite a few examples.

What method must be used to make a state strong? "It is necessary first to encourage population by every possible means." On the contrary, every law tending directly to favor population without regard to other considerations is bad. It is even necessary to endeavor to establish in the state a certain moral force which tends to diminish the number of marriages and to make them less hasty. A gain of births over deaths as shown by tables usually shows only the number of the destitute, etc., etc. French economists outlined the demonstration of these truths, and the excellent work of MALTHUS has completed it.

How shall food shortages and famine be prevented? "Nothing is more simple. It is necessary to prohibit the export of grains." On the contrary, a premium must be granted those who export them. The authoritative example of England has forced us to swallow this paradox.

>>2124570
>perhaps I will just point out guilds were as exploitative as any corporation, and they relied on cheap temporary labor to get things done.

T.reads wikipedia

>>2124422
We sure wouldn't suffer through the idiotic abominations known as nationalism and communism that ruined Christian Europe forever.

>>2124570
Just give up, you can't reason with the reactionary catholic larpers around here.

>>2124583
Christian Europe never existed. Rodney stark proved this in his argument against secularization.

>>2124583
Christianity is >>2124584
Jewish nationalist communism at its core though

>>2124584
> you can't reason with the reactionary catholic larpers around here

>trying to reason with people
>maistre thread

We don't worship rationality like a false god.

>>2124588
>Rodney stark
Literally who?

>>2124590
Fantastic meme. That's why the Jews like Moses Mendelssohn pushed the secularization meme the hardest I guess?

>>2124575
Yeeeaaaahhhhh no.

The french monarchy was worthless garbage and the world is better off for it's destruction.

>>2124602
>Literally who?

One of the most accomplished contemporary researches in the field of religious studies. Notable for being one of the few in the field who aren't completely retarded anti-theists who just attack religion with reductionist nonsense.

>>2124575
Of course we know that Malthus was wrong that standards of living have risen despite population growth.

>>2124606
>unironically supporting the french revolution

>>2124615
wealth=/=standards of living

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>>2124606
It's only fitting that modern France, a child of the barbaric revolution, devalued their spirituality and tradition so hard they're now being conquered by a group of people who did not.

>>2124616
The french revolution failed because it was done without the institutions and cultural framework to carry out the transition. Not because monarchy is a good form of government.

>>2124612
>In their 1987 book A Theory of Religion, Stark and Bainbridge describe themselves as "personally incapable of religious faith".
I do not concern myself with the ramblings of the depraved.

>>2124630
he claims to be agnostic, possibly because it helps him publish things. This is a field where being religious is considered being impossible to be unbias and go where the evidence leads, even though the opposite is true.

>>2124602
Because Christians applied Jewish theorems to themselves. INstead of it being Jews having a free pass to kill anyone non Jewish for the greater good it was now Christians, and Jews didn't like that because they aren't Christians

>>2124629
The french revolution failed and continues to fail because it was satanic state sponsored usury and sodomy.

>>2124639
Not to mention Jewry.

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>>2124640
>jewry

jewry is just usury+superkinship. Sodomy too for non-orthodox jews. Non-Orthodox jews truly are "two legged animals"

>>2124639
liberalism has produced for us the fruits of industry, state stability, and individual rights.

Of all the ancient regimes, the only one who could compete with the modern liberal state was Germany, but even it was a break from the classical monarchy,and it brought war on the liberal states and was destroyed.

>>2124651
>Germany
>ancient regime
Literally a modernist abomination spawned by the Napoleonic nationalist meme.

>liberalism
>STATE STABILITY
Oh wow.

>>2124651
> fruits of industry
usury

>state stability
lol

> individual rights.
sodomy

>>2124659
>Sodomy
What's so wrong with pleasuring the male g-spot?

>>2124665
Other than going to hell for it?

>>2124667
Why would God send anyone to hell for pleasuring a part he himself created?
Why else would there be a g-spot there if it wasn't intended for ass fucking?

>>2124665
Ask commonfilth better yet ask God.

We've degenerated and gone back to the old understanding of freedom, which is really just slavery to ones vices.

>>2124672
>why would evil be tempting

it really makes you think

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>>2124675
>>2124667
>all these nonexistent boogeymen Christcucks use as an internet tough guy cop out "m-muh god will beat you up faggots!"

>tfw too smart for Christcuckery

voltaire's not such a bad dude

>>2124672
Why would God create the hangman's noose if not for degenerates like you? Stop asking stupid questions.

>>2124678
>>2124683
Why is shitposting on le 4chens so tempting?

You're going to burn like the rest of us, hypocrite scum.

>>2124675
I'd like commonfilth more if not for all the muslim shillery. I'm starting to think he's a muslim himself and only uses a christian framework because it's more relatable for his audience.

>maistre forgotten but all but the few non-degenerate "alt-right"

>meanwhile this is one of the most famous living philosophers on earth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTzANl_BYg0&index=2&list=LLhc6rhznJIxWF0zS1Fj3LSg

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>>2124685
leaked images of commonfilth

I agree he's gone full retard, probably because he takes his audience anecdotes on good faith and watches a little too much pastor manning

>>2124681
>I'm too smart for the truth

Modernism in a nutshell

>>2124685
>>2124690
t. alt-right cucks

>>2124695
At least E.Micheal Jones is still pretty good.

>>2124694
>My opinion is right and urs is wrong!!!!

christcuckery in a nutshell

PS: the local nigger church is more devout than you

>>2124698
There is nothing satanists love more than telling people how to be Christians.

>>2124690
I still like how he's one of the few people who manages to expose both degenerate cuckold leftists and /pol/tards alike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWxppftPUZI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAWAndggiOc

>>2124708
It's pretty incredible how gay and subverted /pol/ got so quickly. It was never anything exceptional but it's fallen even more than any other 4chan board which are all fucking abysmal.

>>2124708
Poison sellers need poison buyers. This leash demeans us both.

>>2124721
As someone who's been here since 2007 I can tell that 4chan has always been faggotized to the core, in /pol/'s case their faggotry just came out on top when they got tired of LARPing as edgy right wingers, which was inevitable.

>>2124730
>2007 fuck off new fag

/pol/ was good when it was /news/ and actually came about from something genuine. Even just a few years ago the worst /pol/ had was the lolbertardians, which while pretty terrible at least aren't full retard--- Sometimes atleast.

>>2124702
back to boogeymen and internet tough guy*ism

what are you even doing for God? Shitposting on 4chan in his name? LOL

>>2124708
SKINNY NIGGA WITH A FRO

>>2124737
>lolbergs
>not full retard

I literally can't think of a more retarded demographic on 4chan, other than the bronies maybe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIHcshm2cn4

I unironically like CF.

>>2124747
>I unironically like CF.
Me too desu.

>>2124743
all of /lgbt/ exists a handful of libertarians are just autistic and love to debate min/maxing economics. They can't understand anything else so they just lazily say everything is permitted using some shallow don't tread on me! principle.

>>2124747
CF hates the people who like his completion videos. Only likes those who watch his shitty 2 hour podcasts.

>>2124575
> and the excellent work of MALTHUS

Topkek.

>>2124765
Malthus was right then and he's right now. Get woke.

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>>2124756
>/lgbt/
>libertarians
You'd be surprised how much overlap there is.

>>2124738
There's quite a chance you are getting rused?

>>2124769
Of course, you can tell what type of "libertarian" they are by what aspect they emphasize. Economics or personal freedoms.

>>2124771
Yes who would dare criticize sodomites in the current year? It must just be funny memes.

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>>2124769
Libertartianism seem to be popular within the fringe groups, not that there's anything wrong in that

>>2124775
>Telling people they will go to hell for homosexuality
>On 4chan

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>>2124776

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>>2124776
I wouldn't even be surprised if that was shot in front of a Trump rally.

>>2124778
>Friendly reminder that this site is for GAYTHEIST'S ONLY ANIME OPTIONAL

>>2124773
>Economics or personal freedoms
>exploitative judeocapitalism or the right to fuck children
They're both the same.

>>2124781
>/pol/tards

>>2124787
usury and sodomy are two sides of the same coin yes

Did you show up late to the thread?

I guess what i'm saying is I don't believe all the usury based libertarians have really internalized their values. I genuinely think they have aspergers or something and just love numbers. I'm probably wrong though, not all wisdom brings joy.

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>English translation of Maistre so eloquent
>you don't speak frog so you will never be able to truly appreciate his prose.

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>>2124422
>Joseph De Maistre
Because he was an cuck who envisioned a monarchical religious utopia on earth. Voltaire may have been an idealist, but he was also rational, willing to question his own beliefs. When you have a nutjob who rejects even the scientific method but understands what it is, that's when you know you've gone full fucking wacko.

"Hi, my name is Maistre and I make a living telling the Pope and King exactly what they want to hear."

You want to see Maistre's work in action? Pic related. You want to see what happens not long after that? Get ready wag your Willy.

>>2124795
Doesn't the bible forbid human sacrifice? Why would he be charged with the slaughter of man with the earth being a vast altar? Did he even read the bible?

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>>2124597
>trying to reason with people
>maistre thread

>We don't worship rationality like a false god.

if you have abandoned reason, then you have abandoned peaceful argument. It is not necessarily a bad thing, peace is a corruptive force on all involved, stagnating and incentivising dishonesty.

I'll give it to you totalitarians. you may be irrational overly emotional likely INFP cucks but its more interesting fighting somebody who is atleast honest about what they are instead of pretending like the socialist left do.

>>2124832
>What is poetic writing

>>2124836
>that pic
>WE WUZ ROMANS


>if you have abandoned reason

Not worshiping reason=/= abandoning reason

>>2124832
>Doesn't the bible forbid human sacrifice?

it's complicated. If you're talking pagan sacrifice to placate/earn the favor of gods than yes, human sacrifice isn't permitted. Even if done for Him it's treating Him like a pagan deity.

Maistre describes the world as it is. And we may not be sacrificing for god but for satan.

>>2124853
But god is fine with us sacrificing other stuff for him, isn't he?

>>2124566

>in which all are equal in the eyes of the law isn't.

So children are the same as adults in the eyes of the law, right?

>>2124855
Sacrifice must not be done as a bribe. You must sacrifice because you want to not because it will save you or earn you any favor. When done as an expression of good faith sacrifice is appreciated, and rewarded

Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, My servant will be as well. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.…

>>2124863
So Nihilisim is the answer?

>>2124853
But he says till evil is extinct and until death is death and end condition which man must bring about through human sacrifice. This contradicts God's word and even in a poetic sense, I find such a work of 'art' heretical.

>>2124855
Jesus was a human sacrifice, and it can be argued that all punishments of death from the law of moses is a sacrifice. Sacrifice has to come from the right place, though something like blood Penance/atonement

>>2124855
8“I do not reprove you for your sacrifices,
And your burnt offerings are continually before Me.

9“I shall take no young bull out of your house
Nor male goats out of your folds.

10“For every beast of the forest is Mine,
The cattle on a thousand hills.

11“I know every bird of the mountains,
And everything that moves in the field is Mine.

12“If I were hungry I would not tell you,
For the world is Mine, and all it contains.

13“Shall I eat the flesh of bulls
Or drink the blood of male goats?

14“Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving
And pay your vows to the Most High;

>>2124836
You do realize that Maistre was totalitarian don't you?

>>2124869
No

>>2124870
>This contradicts God's word and even in a poetic sense

>what is revelation

It's a very bleak picture but not surprising to find humanity doesn't take the gift of eternal life Christ offers.

>>2124872
No. The punishment of death is not a human sacrifice. It is not an offering to God. Please read the bible before you make such claims...

>>2124880
>Hate your life on this earth for something unwordly
>Not total nihilism

>>2124882
I think your 60IQ has confused Nihilism with Gnosticism

>>2124881
>No. The punishment of death is not a human sacrifice. It is not an offering to God

Please be filled with the holy spirit before you make such claims.

>>2124880
>what is revelation
You need to read the Bible! Revelation does entail the final death of man being made by man directly by man! This is a view that stems from observations made of nature and not the word of God! If you really are a Christian anon, then this man is likely a politician trying to deceive you

>>2124887
The word of God is found in nature.

>>2124884
I'm sorry, but the only way to be filled with the holy spirit is to read the bible. Man cannot make a sacrifice of man onto God. It is forbidden. He may kill in certain circumstances but he may not sacrifice.

>>2124883
>Ha ha, nothing ion this world matters, caring about anything is just stupid
>Not nihilism

>>2124887
And nothing is made directly by man

We are all bound to the throne of the Supreme Being by a flexible chain which restrains without enslaving us. The most wonderful aspect of the universal scheme of things is the action of free beings under divine guidance.


>>2124894
>I'm sorry, but the only way to be filled with the holy spirit is to read the bible

The only way to be filled with the holy spirit is through Christ. Stop worshiping the book like a fucking Sikh worshiping guru grand sahib

>>2124892
The word of God is revealed in the bible and nature is fallible and capable of deceiving through the Devil and his followers.

In Jn.12:31 and 14:30 Jesus calls Satan the “ruler of this world.” Satan rules unbelievers who develop the evil ways of the world based upon the lies of Satan and the desires of the flesh. Every person born into the world has the desires of the flesh in them and grows up in an environment where the flesh is incited and the lies of Satan are heralded.

See http://www.titusinstitute.com/spiritualwarfare/attack.php

>>2124896
There is no "other world" for nihilists so "this world" is redundant. Gnostic's don't claim nothing matters they claim the material world is evil garbage.

And neither is what was being stated or argued. You are reading what you want to read.

>>2124907
>Nihilists don't believe another world matter
False
And it still leads to Nihilism, just look at the now nihilistic west which was the one to adopt the tenants described.

>>2124903
>The word of God is revealed in the bible

The world of God is revealed to the prophets though speech and they are told to teach us.


>nature is fallible and capable of deceiving through the Devil and his followers.

so is all of writing. The written word of God is an imperfection (at least in how the word of god is too be shared and understood) Maistre goes over this here. http://maistre.uni.cx/generative_principle.html

>>2124898
Please see my post here,

>>2124903
The word is revealed through the bible, which reveals Christ and the holy spirit. Please do not make the mistake of believing that Christ is revealed through nature. Many men have been lead astray by this belief, including I believe Maistre, who I believe was a politician.

If you are truly Christian then read the bible. Satan reveals himself to us in nature and there is nothing we can trust but the bible.

>>2124892
Nature is the devil's church.

>>2124911


"Hi i'm a Nihilist btw i'm a philosopher not a sophist and have never read Neitzche"

>>2124921
Only a personal relationship with Christ can you be filled with the holy spirit. Only after being filled with the holy spirit can you understand the word of God.

You've got it backwards. Or at least fail to see how great faith is built holistically.

>>2124924
What is this Gnostic Demiuge shit? Satan is not the creator of the natural world even if he rules it. A good christian must know how to separate the good fish from the bad, his lambs from his goats, when observing Gods creation.

>>2124629
t.Burke the cuck

>>2124918
>The world of God is revealed to the prophets though speech and they are told to teach us.

No, this is why we read the bible for ourselves. We do not simply have it told to us. The bible reveals the word of God and you will know it is revealed when you are filled with the holy spirit. It is the only thing that is infallible to in the nature, because it is beyond nature.

It is true that you cannot trust any of this writing. You must read the bible. You know Maistre must be wrong if he contradicts this and is nothing but a politician trying to lead the lamb astray to worldly kings.

I know you seriously want to be a Christian anon, because you wouldn't be replying to me otherwise. I know my word isn't perfect, because it seems to be compelling you away from God and towards Maistre and I know this make me imperfect before the Lord, but please read the bible.

It is the only truth we have in the world and once we read it for ourselves and are filled with the holy spirit, we KNOW what must be false in nature. There are times of uncertainty, but the truth is there.

>>2124949
It's quite telling how frequently Burke is featured in low level university courses where as Maistre is no where to be found.

>>2124947
>everybody who isn't a nature worshipper is a gnostic!
>also do more sacrifices pls god demands blood so the world keeps turning

Maistre wasn't even Christian, he was a fucking wannabe Aztec.

>>2124942
Anon, I am not saying that it isn't built holistically!

I am saying that it must first be revealed through God's word first. God's word is not of the world!

1 Jn.2:15-17

“Do not love the world nor the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.”

Yes, the literal bible or the paper is of the world, but not the word itself!

>>2124950
>We do not simply have it told to us

God has literally told it to us, and it is best revealed though actual verbal discourse with other Christians. A rejection of this is a rejection of your fellow christian, it limits the ability of all to effectively go and teach.

. Reading the bible is good but it isn't ideal and it isn't how you become filled with the holy spirit. Doctrine was only written down because the doctrine became under attack. This problem with the written word is it does not respond to objections, it's all to easy to rationalize one way or the other and misunderstand teaching. God knows his word is best received though proper verbal discourse. We are to gather with other Christians and discuss the lords teachings, isolate ourselves and read alone.

>>2124811
>You can apply the scientific method to politics
Oh boy here comes the autistic Marxist

>>2124947
No! Please, see this

Jn.2:15-17

“Do not love the world nor the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.”

In Jn.12:31 and 14:30 Jesus calls Satan the “ruler of this world.” Satan rules unbelievers who develop the evil ways of the world based upon the lies of Satan and the desires of the flesh. Every person born into the world has the desires of the flesh in them and grows up in an environment where the flesh is incited and the lies of Satan are heralded.

You cannot believe anything in nature. Anything in nature could be the work of the devil. Only the word of God is infallible and beyond nature and the devil's hand. Once you read the bible and God's word is revealed, you know that it is revealed because you are filled with the holy spirit.

Yes, the literal bible is of nature, as in the paper, but not the word. Maistre is tempting you into sin!

>>2124959
You misunderstand what is being said about loving the world. You are not to be materialistic, but to deny the beauty of Gods creation and the truth revealed though it isn't right. Appreciating Gods creation isn't the same as worshiping nature or its pleasures.

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>>2124929
>Neitzche
>Philosopher

>>2124981
He's a sophist. The idea of something thinking a nihilist could be a philosopher and believe in an ideal world apart from what the world is De facto is ridiculous.

>>2124951
Because Burke was a whig and his ideas apply to conservatoves still. De Maistre was a totalitarian and borderline theocratic which has no representation in the west. Despite the latter being right abñut everything and have a way more powerful prose

>>2124986
He is not even a sophist. He is a false prophet. If you put all his works in bible format you would get a religious book

>>2124966
Please tell me where in the bible it says this. Is this from that Maistre fellow? Other christian are uncertain or haven't been filled with the Holy spirit if they need verbal discourse to resolve 'objections' they have with the bible. There can be no objections if you accept the bible of infallible.

You sound like you are advocating applying the Socratic or scientific method to the bible itself! And this is not a way of revealing truth in nature. Do you know this or are you lost, because I have never heard it said in the bible that you need other people who profess to be Christian to work through your objections.

I can understand if they are pointing you back to the bible, but it must always come from the bible first and it must always go back to the bible! Everything else is a product of nature not God's word.

Please point out in the bible where you need the teachings of others to work through 'objections.'

>>2124978
I should note that the Christian of great faith is SAVED and keeps their robes clean even in the presence of filth. This is why we can expose ourselves to sinners in an attempt to save them. Once you have been filled with the holy spirit and have a personal relationship with christ satan's temptations will always fail. The material world threatens only those who do not know god. It is good to keep children, cretins, those given over to a reprobate state of mind away from it's influence, but a christian can sort out the good from the bad.

>>2124998
I'm going to be harsh here. The word of God is infallible. The Bible is not. The word of God exists independent of the Bible and was not recorded in writing until later. It was spread through word of mouth.

>>2124978
That's not what I'm saying! Of course we can appreciate God's creation but the point is that what we see in nature that which is fallible, that which is the work of the devil who might lead us into temptation. For all you know, everything you see could just be an illusion by the devil.>>2124974

I have shown you the word. You must find these words in the bible yourself, because only the Bible can tell you what is right and wrong, what is God's will and what is the devil's will. You must read the bible first and from the Bible everything revealed, thus you can use the Bible as a basis to understand and navigate nature. This is why many christian scientists have a hard time reconciling the 'fossil record' with the timeline in the bible. Anything that contradicts the bible cannot be real. You must agree with this right?

>>2125011
I warn you to put your faith in Christ. Not in Churches, Not in the Bible.

>>2125019
This worship of the bible is a comparatively recent protestant phenomenon. It is foolish to believe the bible is infallible, just the various translations can skew the message, and there is evidence of roman tampering. I'm not saying the word of God isn't there, just that it can be quite murky. The word of God is truly known when it is given to us by Christ, internalized within us when we are filled with the holy spirit. You have to live your faith.

>>2125019
>Not in Churches
Not him, but you're claiming to be a biblical Christian while denouncing the concept of churches? Have you even read the New Testament where Paul explicitly lays out how a CHURCH should be organized?

>>2125011
I'm sorry, but if the Bible is not real and is fallible. If it is not the absolute truth, then how can you derive the truth from nature. This is nonsense! The word of mouth is fallible. Man is fallible. Nature is fallible! But the word of God as revealed by the bible is a rock that cannot be eroded by changing current of the word of mouth. It is absolute and everything we know comes from it and not the realm of nature. When starting from the Bible, all in that is right and wrong in nature, good and evil, is revealed. You cannot start from the words of your fellow christian or nonchristians for that matter. You cannot listen to Joel Olsteen and understand the world and the bible.

You must read the Bible and then look upon the world and your fellow Christian. Does this make sense?

>>2125034
I'm not denouncing churches i'm denouncing anyone who claims to be catholic, Lutheran, Calvinist etc etc instead of identifying as merely christian. Some put their faith in the church organization and not in Jesus Christ.

>>2125036
>The word of mouth is fallible.
Protip: Jesus has never written a single page of his teachings. They were all passed orally until the Apostles wrote them down much later.

>>2125036
>The word of mouth is fallible. Man is fallible. Nature is fallible
spoken like a true hedonists. nature does not fail you, it is you who choose to live through your fantasies, your ideas, your concepts, your emotions and then whine when you do not get what you expected. kill your self for a start

>>2125045
He's having a hard time separating the word of God from the written Bible. The Bible may have all of the word of God but it can be very difficult to interpret it properly through it, or it could contain elements that are not the word of God that must be separated from the truth.

>The word of mouth is fallible. Man is fallible. Nature is fallible!

We are talking about Christians who are filled with the holy spirit going to teach and inspire other Christians. You're suggesting no one can be saved and no one can go out and teach the word of God, we can only hand out bibles for people to read on their own.

>>2125030
No it is not,

Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Joshua 1:8

This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

Psalm 19:7-11

The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; the precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.

Please read and understand these words! Read them in the bible itself. It is there and these words are written. I am definitely not saying that it is wrong to go to church and I am not saying that Christians shouldn't teach other Christians, but what they teach MUST stem from the Bible. It must come from the Bible first. You cannot reconcile the bible with nature. Only the written word is infallible and everything else fallible.

Christians have a role in teaching one another, but not making stuff up and nitpicking the bible to justify it, nor can they make observations in nature and alter the bible to reconcile their observations with it. The Bible is infallible and ultimately you must accept it as the infallible word of God. It is the source of all truth not nature or other christians.

>>2125061
It's (((Enlightenment))) era thinking really. It's skeptical of Christians and treats them like "benevolent masters" who really just lie to manipulate and control us. If you want to learn you must learn by yourself, because everyone is smart and rational enough to learn on their own. And we can trust no one to teach us.

>>2125067
>Only the written word is infallible and everything else fallible.


This doesn't make any sense. The written word came from the spoken word.

>>2125061
That is not what I said. It is you who is having a hard time understanding. The word of god is revealed by Bible, a written work. That revelation is the UNDERSTANDING of the written word. I'm not arguing that it literal bible doesn't exist in nature.

I'm also not arguing that other Christians don't have a role to play in teaching the word and helping to organize other Christians, but see >>2125067 this. The only certainty, the only absolute truth is revealed through the written word. Everything we know must stem from the bible and to be certain if stems from the bible we must read it, that doesn't mean that we can't have other Christians help us understand, but we must always refer to the Bible and read it on our own to be certain.

Please, show me where in the Bible it says that the word of god can be revealed equally by man and equally by the bible itself. It must always come from the Bible!

Give proof!

>>2125075
>Please, show me where in the Bible it says that the word of god can be revealed equally by man and equally by the bible itself. It must always come from the Bible!


Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


This is before the Bible was written.

>>2125070
That's why the spoken word was written down! It was revealed to man and written in the scripture and thereby made absolute and unchanging for all the world to see! It is almost like the US constitution, which I don't mean to say was divinely inspired.

Even the apostles could have forgotten things at some point. That's why their word was written into the scripture! It is not like a statue that can be eroded sands of time. Word of mouth can not erode the bible over the generations. It is absolute.

>>2125083
the spoken word was written down because it was being attacked. And this was a folly. If you want to read more about why the written word has its weaknesses (and why written constitutions don't work and are in fact a result of human hubris you can do so here http://maistre.uni.cx/generative_principle.html)

>>2125082
This is written into bible, yes, and it was made scripture. All that Jesus commanded on his disciples was made into scripture, for others to follow. What is you point, that you can teach the Bible without scripture? Did Jesus reveal his teachings directly to you or has he ascended into heaven?

>>2125093
>show me in the bible where it says you can teach without the bible!

>Here, this was said before the bible was written to go out and teach. Clearly the word of God could be known and taught to others before the bible

>HA but it's in the BIBLE NOW isn't it? Checkmate


Are you fucking kidding me? This is the worst gotcha i've ever seen.

>>2125090
You keep mentioning Maistre, but you do not mention scripture! You do not directly quote the Bible and thus you mind has been captured by a man and his musings on nature and not of the Bible. He is either misguided or an agent of the devil, sure in himself and not of the Bible alone, and generating all manor of fantasy to lead you away from the truth!

If the Bible is not your anchor, then the ship sails where it pleases and where it pleases is leads to places like Sodom and Gomorrah. You have not qouted any scripture, only rambled about Maistre.

How can you find you way to God without the Bible to guide you and then anchor you once you found him? And how can your fellow Christians help steer the ship, if they too don't have the Bible to guide them and anchor them?

Without the Bible, there is no absolute certainty and pure skepticism allows man to be bound by the devil in nature. Uncertain if he is lead by good or evil. He is rudderless.

Please read the Bible before it is too late and then Judge this Maistre you idolize.

>>2125109
But it doesn't say not to teach what isn't in the Bible. It was the word of God yes, but was then written into the scripture. We may teach the scripture, but it must be the scripture and nothing more. What are you trying to argue, that Jesus has, since the time that was said, revealed himself directly to others and it hasn't been written into the bible?

>>2125112
I've decided to follow your advice, I won't look at anything you write unless it's just spam from bible hub.

>>2125122
Are you claiming that biblehub is not a reputable source? The words are there and you are free to contradict them with scripture. You are free to read the Bible FOR YOUSELF and not take my word for it.

>>2125136
I don't see quotation marks around that post anon. I'm afraid I'm not allowed to read it.

>>2125141
I didn't say you weren't allowed to read it nor did I say you weren't allowed to be guided by others, so long as you took that guidance with a grain of salt and read the bible for yourself. Now go read the Bible and stop relying of the Maistre fellow. I haven't given up on you yet!

>>2124422
Because Voltaire was a charismatic individual who appealed to the masses.

>>2125285
That's true. Maistre was also a charismatic individual but he only appealed to the Popes and minor Kings, with his reactionary rhetoric. It's hard for people to take you seriously when you claim that the root of all modern evil after the devil is Francis Bacon.

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The fact that reactionaries try to endlessly reconcile their elitism and disgust for the poor and downtrodden masses with Christianity amuses me with no end.

You could say that the French revolution possessed the same fanaticism as de Maistre had for Monarchism, but that would be ignoring the historical and material necessities for the bourgeois revolution in France, and how the royalist system and its noble class was decadent, useless, and inefficient beyond belief. If I remember correctly France had experienced a big famine just before teh revolution broke out, just like with the October revolution.

>>2124624
Does the Uk fit in what you say as well? Sweden? U.S with it's Mexicans?

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>>2125359
No. No. You look at that gracious and noble sovereign. You look at him and you don't even think about questioning him. So noble and beautiful and divinely ordained! And don't let the Christian bible allow you to come to your own conclusions. It can only be read in Latin, by agents of the Pope, God's emissary or something, that rules...with the king or jointly with the king? Or advises the king...what does he do again? Wait, we're in the Holy Roman empire and there's electors for a monarch of monarchs who are all divinely ordained? Who has the ultimate authority again....aw fuck it.

>>2125391
Mexican=/=Muslims

>>2124563
>just shut down your brain

>>2125436
That not a female human being. That's a Hapsburg.

>>2124767
I can think of over 6 billion reasons why Malthus was wrong.

>>2124656
>Oh wow.
He is right, though. Constitutional democratic republics just aren't as vulnerable to succession crisis as absolute hereditary monarchies.

>>2124811
>"Hi, my name is Maistre and I make a living telling the Pope and King exactly what they want to hear."

Except for the part where he reminds them that the French Revolution is a punishment from God because they weren't fulfilling their end of the bargain.

>>2125521
So their end of the bargain was just to be unwavering in command and not to question their own beliefs or have their subjects question them based on the advice and intrigues of certain intellectuals? Wew, lad that's quite a spanking. I'm so mad...

>>2125535
*based on the advice of enlightenment intellectuals I mean

>>2125535
Yes, but not quite, a lot of nobles really hated him because he would say that things can't really just be immediately put back to the way they were and that a lot of the nobility was garbage and deserved exactly what they got.

>>2125521
Frederick the Great, y-you were talking to Voltaire again weren't you. Remember what I-I tells you. You are bad sovereign, you need more power and unwavering faith in yourself!

>>2125572
Yeah, ok. Let's see some quotes to the nobles he said that too. Did he also turn around and say someone else should be the nobles, or did he just spout his anti-enlightenment beliefs, telling the nobles they should rule harder, which is what most of them who would give him an audience would want to hear anyway? I don't think he was offending anyone in Sardinia-Piedmont before and after he fled.

>>2125600
I think Isaiah Berlin's lecture on him has some stuff about Nobles being a little freaked out/offended by him. Especially in Sardina-Piedmont, as that place was trying to liberalize moderately.

>>2125612
>Nobles being a little freaked out/offended by him
we wuz contrarian

>>2125359
We don't hate the poor. You're thinking of capitalists, your revolutionary buddies.

>We're currently in the most peaceful, most prosperous era of human history.
>Gaiz, we should go back to the system that we bucked off to allow this current era of human history because I'm a socially maladjusted cretin driven by a overwhelming sense of anomie.

I fucking hate reactionaries. I honestly hate them more than fascists and Marxist-Leninists, because at least those two have honest, and fundamentally material reasons for preferring their particular brands of barbarism.

You know what the world would look like if we listened to him? It would be a completely war-torn shit-hole, as Europe under monarchy was.

>>2126049
>muh peace

>>2126109
>

>>2126109
>if I put muh in front of it, it's not a big deal

Reactionaries will always be the fringe of the fringe. Lazy historical reenactors incapable of appreciating the irony of enacting a mass-movement to implement a monarch that's supposed to resist the whims of the masses.

>>2126125
We did it in the 1930s Spain, we can do it again.

>>2126143
Yeah, real impressive. The army (receiving extensive materiel support from Germany) managed a coup against a divided fighting force of civilian militias that were only minimally supported by the USSR and fighting amongst themselves as much as they were against the Francoists.

Setting aside the ridiculous "you" part of that scenario, Franco basically managed to get into power through blind fucking luck, and got the benefit of post-war recovery starting up early by maintaining neutrality which you fucks now like to tout as some fucking miracle when basically any place that manages wartime recovery experiences an economic boom.

>>2124422
Because Voltaire is the meme master, and everybody love memes

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>>2126163
>being this mad

>>2126269
Is "meme master" the epithet of Voltaire Maistre forgot about?

>>2124549

>>2127367
>Maistre forgot the only epithet that truly mattered in the end.

Someone needs to make a picture of Voltaire as a smug pepe in front of a crying Wojak Maistre.