>Modern Humans have been around for 100k years >Oldest

>>2122495
>Oldest records 3500 years old.

>Oldest verified known object 4600 year old tree.

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>>2122495
We have no archaeological evidence, nor written accounts.

>>2122523

absence of evidence=/=evidence of absence

>>2122523
we do have archaeological evidence from cave dwellings though

>climate was total dogshit up until 12,000 years ago or so
>agriculture starts when climate stops being dogshit

it is a mystery

>>2122562

So your explanation is the climate was "dogshit" across the entire world up until 12k years ago. Weow, so this is the power of a BA in history.

>>2122530

Well you can fill the absence with whatever fairytale you like, but if you can't prove it it's still a fucking fairytale.

>>2122575

>Weow, so this is the power of a BA in history.

So what's your educated rebuttal?

>>2122575
Ever heard of that thing called the Iceage?

>>2122495

Yes? What else would they be doing? The first humans didn't spawn with a town centre, 3 peasants and a basic tech tree. Humanity has spent most of its existence naked and grubbing around in the dirt for scraps. Which makes the progress through all ages of history even more remarkable.

>humans for 100k years
What was before us?

check out the theory of the bicameral mind

People didn't become truly self aware until about 1000 bc

>>2122593

>Took 90 thousand years to build some houses and plant food

Nice meme

>>2122515
That's just not even true, Anon. Come on.

>>2122593
>not playing nomad start
Baka desu

>>2122495
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if very small proto-civilizations sprung up but were for one reason or another dashed before they could really get started early on. Sudden climate shifts, natural disasters, or so on might have totally erased them. I think it's just as likely that it took 90,000 years of arduous technological advances before things really kicked off, but like I said it wouldn't surprise me if some really rudimentary stuff had gotten going earlier.

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>2122530

You might get a kick out of this book if you like the idea of filling in gaps in the historical record with supposition.

I didn't buy into it but he does raise some neat points about early civilization. The supposition isn't totally unfounded but it's a leap of faith I wasn't willing to take.

>>2122623

Fuck. Was quoting >>2122530

>>2122606

Yeah, because no fucker knew what a house was or which crops to plant and which ones to avoid because they make you die shitting your lungs out.

>>2122575
Yeah, basically.

Also, behaviorally modern humans are only 50,000 years old.

>>2122623

Looks a bit out there but pretty interesting, thanks anon.

>>2122638

>Looks a bit out there

It is, read with caution. It's still an interesting read, though.

Humans got lucky one day. What's wrong with that? If it weren't for Lady Luck, we'd still be running deer to death.

>>2122583

That it is fucking insane to say 9,000 generations achievements can be summed up as "lol cave paintings" because there was "dogshit climate" over, according to you, the entire fucking planet.

>>2123322

*900

>>2123322
It was pretty shitty, though. There wasn't really a particularly good spot for agriculture where the population could boom.

>>2123322
You also fail to realize there were probably no more than 50k to 60k individuals up until the end of the ice age, the populations ranged all over eurasia and africa so sparse as fuck, and that most of the evidence we are finding shows that they were migratory at the time.

So yeah theres not a whole lot to go on.

>>2123347
50k to 60k individuals at any one time*

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>>2122575
What the fuck are you talking about. Where do you live at where they don't mention something about the fucking iceage?

They even made a series of movies with the same name.

>>2122583
MA (Shitposting) from Neet State

>>2123322

Wow anon, I guess you're right. We need to tell all those researchers to fuck off, because a random /his/ anon has seen through your bullshit using amazing logic and reasoning such as "nu uh!"

>>2122515
Nigga there are bows from 9k years ago, and trees alive even longer.

Theres a foredt in ohio where the ntire fucking forest is actually just one tree, basically a megaweed hivemind.

>>2122495

Anon, perhaps this can explain it to you in the context of a fun little game.


http://www.kongregate.com/games/clarusvictoria/pre-civilization-stone-age

>>2122562
What about temperature areas during the Iceage? Not everything was covered with ice

It's baffling.

Why did every human population develop to within a few thousand years of each other, when they had been developing for tens of thousands of years mostly independently?

Why were there NO environments that humans were able to exploit, excluding local, temporary setbacks?

>>2123466
While the whole planet wasn't covered in ice, the "temperate" areas were drier and colder, with a shorter summer. Agriculture would have been limited.

>>2122606
>be an animal that looks like a human
>there aren't books
>you have sharpened sticks
>some shit head in the future expects you to KNOW what a house is even though no dwelling has ever been made in the history of the universe

>>2123519

>Implying you have sharpened sticks


For a lot of human pre-history, judging by the archeological record, you had 3 tools, the chopping rock, the scrapping rock, and the smashing rock.

pointy sticks come way later.

>>2123519

How do you people give so little credit to our ancestors?

>be an animal that looks like a human
Anatomically exact humans were around 100k years ago you fucking retard, as in exactly like us.

>there aren't books
>you have sharpened sticks
>some shit head in the future expects you to KNOW what a house is even though no dwelling has ever been made in the history of the universe

"OH FUCK I SURE AM HUNGRY AND IT SURE IS WET AND COLD OUTSIDE, OH WELL GUESS IL STAND HERE AND JERK OFF CAUSE I DONT HAVE BOOKS."

If uncontacted natives in the amazons and remote regions can figure out how to build a fucking hut, hunt game, and fish I'm sure people that were, once again, exactly like us could figure it out given hundreds of thousands of years. My contention though is reaching that point is not complex at all, it is not something you need advanced knowledge of engineering or agriculture to reach, but why then is it after all the hundreds of thousands of years they lived like this was there no advancement? The only excuse I've seen so far in this thread is "mah ice age" implying that the entire earth was frozen for the entire history of homo sapiens until ten thousand years ago.

>>2123541
We have a record of stone tools stretching from the Australopithicines to modern day.

It seems that behaviorally modern humans are only like 50,000 years old judging based on the kind of tools we've found.

We've found 28,000 year old mammoth bone houses in Ukraine and 24,000 year old cave paintings in France, so it seems like premodern man was busy doing caveman shit by then.

Of course, it doesn't leave much of an archaeological record.

>>2123541

Not that anon, but do you know how much easier it is to imitate rather than to truly innovate? You look at those backwards, largely uncontacted tribes, and yes, they have flint tools, and shelters, and hunting techniques, and as far as can be determined, have kept that way for hundreds, sometimes thousands of years.

You only get the flash of true inspiration, something new and not built on previous advancement, very rarely. You get a long interval of time between such flashes, especially if you're in a pre-agricultural society and population levels are real low.

Then, when it happens, you get people remembering and copying it. And if it's useful, the innovation spreads, sometimes wide enough that a tribe on the other end of the geographic expanse which came up with a different flash of inspiration can use yours and build off of it to get something better still.

But fucking yes, it takes a LONG while for societies to crawl their way up from "I have a rock here" to even the most primitive of agriculture.

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>>2122495
>Do you really expect me to believe humans were doing nothing but killing deer and fucking for 90,000 years?
There are certain groups that are like that even today, you know.

>>2123533

Sticks=wood. Wood decomposes. Nevermind fire.

>>2123322
The beginning of the Last Glacial Period, seems to coincide with the Toba supervolcano eruption, interestingly enough. As a general rule, you should never underestimate nature, the Toba eruption basically killed off Homo Erectus (Who, beforehand was an incredibly successful species) and led to the decline of the Neanderthals. It basically pushed Humanity to the brink of extinction as well, there were something like 10000 breeding pairs around that time (evidenced by a genetic bottleneck). It's more of a personal theory of mines, essentially speculation, but I'll talk about it anyways. I would wager that the primary dividing factor between earlier hominids and homo sapiens is in fact the incredible rate of cultural speciation. The success of Homo Erectus generally coincides with it's advanced Acheulean toolkit, but past it's initial development, they did not innovate much, they used the same hand-axe technology for millions of years without much variation. This is basically the same thing that happened with the Neanderthals. The key innovative trait of Homo Sapiens Sapiens was it's ability to let it's culture be molded by it's environment, it's ability to make up random shit from looking around them. It's rather difficult to explain, but this would also seem to be the origin of religion, basically a form of proto-philosophy, an attempt to explain natural phenomena using human social structures (which too, could also be influenced by the environment). You can kinda see the same cultural evolution happening here on the internet too, in a sense, memes were the reason for our success.