Are they cowards? Should they have joined the British in World

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Gr8 b8 m8 I rate it 8 of 8.

>>2089465
Not baiting, my guy.

Maybe I've been misinformed but aside from one or maybe two just rebellions, they don't seem to accomplished anything beyond "Muh neutrality" which is fancy words for cowardice considering the moral implications of WW2.

De-Valera seems cucked by the catholic church and generally it seems like a failed state. Why'd they even bother fighting the English?

>>2089473
Well how would you like to fight for the people you spent hundreds of years being oppressed by.

>>2089441
No no yes both

>>2089473
You're only viewing their accomplishments in a military, geopolitical sense.

As far as trying to make a functioning country that cares for its' citizens then it's a success.

Their accomplishments include countless Nobel Prize winners and essential contributions to world literature and the arts.

It just sounds like you're trying to do some shit talking.

>>2089441
>fight for the country that has brutalized and raped your land and culture for centuries
>defend them from another country doing the same shit to them that they did to you

Ireland: lol no

It's proof that they aren't cucks. Good work Ireland.

>>2089441
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?

Possibly, but I can well understand why they didn't. After the USA joined the war would have been the time for them to join, but really they are a tiny country with little or no warmaking ability so it doesn't really matter either way.
>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
Eh, yes and no. It's not like they threw in jail.
>Were the IRA of the 60s freedom fighters or memeraiders?
They began as freedom fighters, but after the Home Rule act and the subsequent independence of Eire, they lost their mandate and became simple terrorists,

>>2089441
>Are they cowards?

all terrorists are cowards

Did the Nazis have any long term plans re: Ireland? Did they see them as a "degenerate race" or whatever?

>>2089659
>all terrorists are cowards

How do you figure?

>>2089638
>Fighting against Nazis = being subservient to Britain

Ah yes

>>2089724
>Murdering innocent civilians to try and further your cause

When you target civilians by putting bombs in bins you cease to have any sort of paramilitary moral high ground. I think the troubles wouldn't have been nearly so troublesome if it was a purely "military" affair

>>2089638
Calm down comrade

>>2089441
No
No
Depends
Both

>>2089772
essentially, at least for us
Churchill was even contemplating invading us to stop Hitler using Ireland as a spring-board for a land war in Britain as loads of other Continental powers had tried to do in the past
why would we fight the Nazis anyway?

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>>2089647
>but after the Home Rule act and the subsequent independence of Eire, they lost their mandate and became simple terrorists,
how about no

>>2089863
>loyalists killing loyalists
>IRA killing IRA
The fuck is this

>>2089870
it makes perfect sense lad, feuding was always common in the militant Republican movement as did the Loyalists but for different reasons normally

>>2089857
I know that 4chan is edgy and everything, but most people consider Hitlers murderous regime to be quite evil and worth fighting against. But whatever, Ireland wasn't being invaded so why bother right?

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>>2089911
>But whatever, Ireland wasn't being invaded so why bother right?
pretty much yeah, Dev even gave his regards to the German ambassador when Hitler died

if you think people joined the Allies to oppose Hitler because he was a super evil baddie you've not read past primary school history textbooks

>>2089791
>When you target civilians by putting bombs in bins you cease to have any sort of paramilitary moral high ground.

I don't disagree, but that's not what I asked. How does that make them "cowards?"

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>>2089911
I'd consider the British regime quite evil and worth fighting against

it's all perspective though, I'm a butthurt Irishman and you're a butthurt Jew

The biggest mystery is why they still speak English. Israel revived a dead language and alphabet, why cant Eire go back to their own language?

>>2090608

Everyone in Ireland already spoke English, while the various Jewish people who reached Israel lacked a unficied language.
And other reasons too, but thats for starters.

>>2090608
One thing you have to realise about Ireland is it doesn't really have a pre-British identity. It truly is a country entirely shaped by its relationship to England.

Hence why they do stupid things like hand their country over to the Catholic church on a plate and use the Euro currency. They are desperate to do anything that breaks that connection to Mother England.

Ireland is British and belongs in the UK. Northern Ireland is an artificial state that should be reunited within the UK.

God bless you Ireland. One day you will wake up from this foolishness, my beautiful son.

>>2090655
*caitheann sliotar ar thú*
póg mo thóin, sasanach

>>2089636
>countless

>>2089441
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
From a pragmatic POV, yes. They would've gotten development and money pouring in. It would've made the Battle of the Atlantic easier for the Allies.

However, why should the Irish citizen give a rat's ass about fighting in WW2? It wasn't their war and 6 counties were separated from the rest of the island.

The Irish were treated as rent mules and cannon fodder by the British for centuries. They already fought in the Great War, why jump ship with them and doom another generation of young men?

>>2090608
>why cant Eire go back to their own language?
Sadly, they lack the motivation to do so since everyone speaks English anyway.

>>2091365
I see you also have Google translator.

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>the immediate loyalist asshurt in this thread

Well OP, TIME FOR A HISTORY LESSON ON THE TROUBLES IN NI

A BRIEF HISTORY:

>Civil Rights Movement (CVM) in Ulster trying to get equal housing, employment and voting rights for irish catholics
>Paisley sets up the UCDC, a group dedicated to stopping the CVM
>UVF carry out 3 attackes in Belfast, one attempted firebombing of a catholic pub, two people shot as they walked home and three more shot as they left a pub
>First Civil Rights march happens in August 1968
>In October, they tried to march in Derry but the loyalists wanted to march in the same place at the same time, so the CV march got banned. They defied the ban, and were indiscriminately beaten by the RUC (the police of the time)
>A student-driven protest against this violence later that week was blocked by Paisley and other Loyalists as they marched to city hall
>A march by this student-driven group in early 1969 is repeatedly attacked by loyalists and off-duty RUC officers, using bricks, bars and whatever other loose weapons they had
>A few months later, the loyalists bombed several buildings and blamed the IRA in an attempt to tear apart the UUP (Ulster Unionist Party) who were sympathetic to the CVM
>British soldiers deployed to guard several areas
>RUC raid a house during clashes with CV marchers and beat a man to death and his daughter unconscious .
>The UVF plant a bomb in the ROI in late 1969
>During a riot which was started when nationalists stoned an Orange Hall, RUC officers beat Franic McCloskey to death. THIS IS CONSIDERED THE FIRST DEATH OF THE TROUBLES.
>years of memeraiding
>Good Friday Agreement

Loyalists are africa-tier bushpirates and cannot be trusted.
The troubles were started by Loyalists, the unrest in NI was brought about by loyalists (Charles Haughley literally told them to stop faffing about or it'll kick off) and the most atrocities in the Troubles were committed by Loyalists and Brits.

Don't let the Orange """men""" fool you.

>>2091717
this desu senpai

>>2091717
>Loyalists are africa-tier bushpirates and cannot be trusted.

Actually it's more you guys and there's actually nothing wrong with that.

>>2091717

Note that the first death isn't the start of the Troubles, but just noted as the first death as a result of the period named the Troubles.

As you did list, deaths happened prior to this.

I have no idea whatsoever why people blame the troubles on the fenians considering they did sweet fuck all for a very long time while unionists consistently battered, bombed and shot irish people left right and center.

Then suddenly they put up a fight and it's "TERRORISTS!!! MUH PEACE PROCESS!!! GET THEM OUT !!! NO SURRENDER !!!"

Bogniggers are annoying but by christ the British-flavoured ones are even worse.

>>2089473
Considering the moral implications, were British soldiers cowards for not fighting to overthrow the empire?

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>>2091717
>Somebody posts actual facts and information
>The loyalists flee the thread

Beautiful.

>>2089441
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
Yes, they should have helped their eternal enemy.

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>>2089441
If there's one thing the Irish aren't, it's cowards.
But they're also chronically depressed about their shitty, rainy homeland (FUCK Ireland, I don't think I had dry clothes EVER), and they really need to chill with this whole Catholic business because muh Presbyterian master race.

English treatment of Irish was somewhat similar to Hitler's actions and plans. Why would they support English? They didn't support Hitler either.

>>2089441
>Are they cowards?
yes
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
yes
>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
yes, possibly mistreating them because their courage and conscience shamed the irish government
>Were the IRA of the 60s freedom fighters or memeraiders?
they thought they were freedom fighters, but pretty much acted like terrorists, ironically they actually did more harm than good to their own cause and probably delayed a settlement by 20-30 years, years they spent in petty murder and internecine strife

>>2091365
and you can kiss my ass boghopper.

>>2091717
you left out the part where the IRA started shooting the troops from the mainland sent to protect the catholics and escalated matters from a local disturbance likely to be settled soonish (there was no desire to keep oppressing catholics in westminster and loyalist bullshit gave them a wedge to reform) but once the republicans started shooting no real progress could be made until they stopped.

>most atrocities in the Troubles were committed by Loyalists and Brits.
no by almost all atrocities were commited by the irish, either republican or loyalist, the british bloody sunday aside (and that was a fuck up not a planned action) tried to avoid civilian death, the principal problem being the need to reform the RUC and the impossibility of doing so while the troubles were flaring.

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>>2089441
>why didn't a neutral island nowhere near the war join the war
gee I fucking wonder why
never mind the fact that industrialisation was just starting, or that anti-British sentiment was still high because most adult men still remember the Anglo-Irish war
nah it's because we were cowards
>t. taig

>>2089706
I'm also interested in this
would Uncle Adolf have oven'd us?

>>2089791
I hope you apply the same principle to loyalist paras and the British Army, otherwise you're full of shit

>>2089870
Not entirely unheard of lad
One of the most vehemently anti-Catholic serial killers, leader of the Shankhill butchers, was sold out by the loyalists he supported

>>2092233
More civilians died at the hands of the UDA than by all the Irish Catholic "official" and "unofficial" attackers.

Unionists hunted irish, IRA hunted Brits and then started hunting UDA members.

Of course they "fought like terrorists" they were fighting a guerilla war in an urban area against:

>A police force infamous for abusing them
>A huge paramilitary supported by this police force
>British soldiers who showed up and supported both of the above

The idea that they could have done fuck all without civilian casulties is naive.

They had fuck all reason to join the allies, and you sound like a buttmad brit that can't accept that SOMEHOW despite being OVERWHELMINGLY more powerful The British couldn't keep hold of a fucking bog.

Absolutely every official and unofficial armed presence in Ulster was set against the IRA. The Troubles were brought about by how Loyalists treated catholic irish people, despite warnings from both the Republic and from Unionist figures that shit was about to pop off.

>>2092293
Actually some people wanted some sort of friendly nature based on the krauts trying to help the Irish with the 1916 rising.

In general though, attitude was "We've only just finished fighting the fucking British, how about we spend a few years where our sons don't die for a change."


I don't think that they SHOULDN'T have joined the allies but I don't really see a reason that they should have. Very easy to dictate a nation's actions when you're decades ahead in the future, not so easy to do it when you've been put in charge of a nation that you yourself fought in a war to create.

Ireland isn't much. But in terms of how hard they had it and how little they had to work with, they pulled off in my opinion one of the larger slaps to the face of the British.

I remember seeing somewhere that Michael Collins was voted a bigger enemy of Britain than Napoleon, and I believe that something so huge happening right in the UK's back garden was crazy.

>>2091717
You forgot the part where both nationalists and loyalists were relieved to see the British Army, thinking it would end the violence, only for the BA to turn into another loyalist paramilitary

>>2092293
Ireland-german relations were weird, but De Valera was a smart dude.

He was the only (I think) world leader to tell Germany "Yo sorry Adolf died hope ur ok bb" and he was slammed for this, but a lot of people understand that Ireland as a fledgeling nation didn't want to go stepping on does or waving a political penis it just didn't have.

Sentiment based on the 1916 rising that >>2092321 mentioned died out pretty quickly, Hitler then just saw Ireland as another neutral country.
He'd probably have been madder if he was aware of how much Ireland helped the allies, I'm pretty sure they were as helpful as possible while retaining their "neutral" status.

I think there was once a theoretical plan for an invasion of Ireland as a backdoor to England, but it was never regarded as something that'd actually have been used.

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>>2092321
Interesting side note on the friendly nature with the germs bit
The Krauts made a movie trying to get the Irish to want tot join the Axis, but it had the opposite effect of seeing the Nazis as the oppressors
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Life_for_Ireland

>>2092367
>de valera was a smart dude

He was shit. He was a shit fighter and and even shittier politician.

>>2092389
He got us locked out of the EU for 30 years, so I give him points for keeping us out of that shitshow

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You know what I know little about Ireland and don't feel strongly either way but can we all agree that the 12 Apostles Gunmen under Michael Collins is probably the tightest shit in semi-modern history?

>Collins decides to have a guerilla war
>"But sir there's a metric fuck tonne of british spies"
>Collins tells the spies to fuck off or get killed
>They don't fuck off
>Collins assembles the fucking Spud Avengers
>Sends them out to purge
>What starts off as somewhat informal/inefficient shootings and assassinations became more efficient
>Bloody Sunday comes around
>The Cairo gang, an infamous gang of intelligence officers is yukking it up in Ireland as usual
>14 MI5 officers killed, six wounded in the space of a few hours
>Brits so triggered that they shoot up a stadium

Has there ever been a more based man than Michael Collins?

>>2092452
>has there ever been a man more based than Collins
no
he was our best son

>>2089441
>Cowards at best.

YEAH, oh okay dude. Ok.

>>2092233
signed fucktard britbong

>>2092452
Guy wrote the book on guerilla warfare.

As a true lion hearted englishman i can say with all honesty that the Irish did no more than we brits would have in the same situation. You opress us, you die. Even if were outnumbered and outgunned we still fight. Cant begrudge padddy that

>>2089441
>Are they cowards?
Considering they won their war of independence if they're cowards then Anglos are giga-cowards.
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
No, that would have been a dumb idea. It was a newly independent country that would have been a liability to the war effort if anything. Not to mention they had nothing to gain from joining the allies, and would have been inevitably crushed by the British had they joined the war on the Axis.

>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
Yes.

>Were the IRA of the 60s freedom fighters or memeraiders?
Neither, those are both meme-categorizations. They were rebels. Some of them did have lofty nationalist motiviations, and some of them were just terroristic maniacs.

>>2089706
I think they had plans in the long run but it wouldn't have been worth the hassle after the first year or so

>>2092367
He knew. Devalera and the German ambassador git on well and Devalera has told him that he'd have allow "specific considerations" or something along those lines to Britain. Hitler probably sent bombers to Ireland at least once as a warning.

>>2091694
>trusting GT for a good translation
all from the auld focloir laddie

>>2092233
t.orange monkey

>>2094021
Actually Dublin got bombed quite hard during WW2, although a lot of people say it was "by accident."

It would have been easy for De Valera to say "fuck it" and join the allies, but the lasting affect of a newly formed Ireland suddenly once more sending off young men to die for Britain would have harmed their image and the people's faith in the government in the long run.

There really haven't been very many good Taoiseach's, but the good ones were in my opinion without a doubt some of the greatest politicians-or at least the ones with the most interesting and challenging careers-in the history of the Isles.


>tfw one of Ireland's best leaders was an ex-assassin

Tight as fuck

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>>2089441
Honestly having a hearty "hehehe" @ hun history hour, hombres

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>>2089441

>Unionist education

>>2092452
He was a master organiser in general. Some of his most impressive shit was as finance minister for the basically non-existent republic. He managed to secure a huge loan to fund the war while his ministry was basically just him and some helpers in a safehouse, most of the "treasury" of the republic was in private bank accounts or hidden under floorboards in Dublin. Despite this he managed to organise a loan to the Commies in Russia who couldn't get one from anyone else and they gave some Romanov jewels as collateral, which would also remain hidden in a house until after the civil war. Crazy shit.

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>>2092452
>Brits so triggered that they shoot up a stadium

I know what they did on Bloody Sunday was a terrible thing but this made me kek

>>2089441
Please explain how Ireland could actually fight the Germans and why we should've done it.

Our army was WW1-tier and could've been crushed easily. Only in guerrilla warfare would we have a chance. We were a country of two million. Tell me, what should we have done?
The Germans wanted to be our friend in both world wars. The Brits were not deserving of our help.

>>2089911
>Hitlers murderous regime to be quite evil and worth fighting against

Yeah, that's why every single european country banded up and embarked on a holy crusade to fight the nazis, oh wait, the axis weren't only compromised of germany, japan and italy. The irish had no stake in the war, you might as well fault fucking south american countries for not getting involved. .

>>2094608
>Actually Dublin got bombed quite hard during WW2, although a lot of people say it was "by accident."
Some probably were. If memory serves places further south were bombed too, including a co-op or creamery. Thats why people suspect it was a hint to stop sending as much food and just general help to the allies.

I have to say, I'm not a big DeVelara fanboy but its hard not to fucking respect the cunt

>>2094660
For the sake of my sanity and for whatever fate I have for education on this Island I have to believe thats bait
I mean DEAR FUCKING JESUS, just trying to wrap my head around being that fucking brainwashed and uneducated makes my head hurt

>>2089473
Why the fuck would they have joined the Brits?
If something they should had ally with Germans and invade Ulster. Seriously.

>>2089772
>>2089911
Is this a troll?

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>>2089441
How is it cowardice? Are the Swiss cowards too?
Germany dindu nuffin to the Irish. Ireland had no obligations to protect Poland. England had been shit ting on Ireland for roughly 800 years. A nation looks out for its citizens. Too many paddies have died for John Bull's wars, why should more?
>based Irish let practically any Nazis live openly in Ireland just to give the fingers to the UK.

>>2089473
1. because Irish people were sick of fighting other peoples wars
2. At the beginning of the war Germany wasn't seen as all that bad
3. Germany had treated Ireland better than Britain had, or at least the republicans
4. Ireland had basically no army
5. "Muh neutrality" was the best way to say fuck you to Britain and to show the world we werent the UKs cucks anymore
That being said youre right about the church bit. Completely wrong with the failed state bit

>>2089911
Ya, germany hadn't invaded us, more than we can say about the brit
>I know that comes off as salty but fuck it

>>2095302
It's probably a mixture, but I don't think OP was baiting.

In the North Unionists are nip-tier revisionists when it comes to this sort of thing. There are murals all over of "examples" of how Ulster has always been not as irish as the rest of Ireland.

They'll tell you that the Troubles started because some random catholics decided to start killing protestants.

I only found out about the actual history/death tolls/bakground of the Troubles because I looked it up in my spare time, and I'm often scolded by family if I bring it up.

t. Ulster fag in a protestant family

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ROI is one of those weird little countries with some radical history tidbits.

>One of their most loved Taoiseach's was once a member of a group of master assassins who hunted anglo spies
>He's widely regarded as a masterful economist, politician and also a bretty good assassin

It's all the best parts of African politics without the third-world shit

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>>2091717
>Loyalists are africa-tier bushpirates

Loyalists sell drugs to the communities that they claim to protect
They are not bushpirates, they are Drug Dealing Scum and gangsters

Take a walk up the Nationalist Falls Rd, it's vibrant
Take a walk up the loyalist Shankhill Rd
It's a drab shit hole with more boarded up shops than ones that are actually open

>why is that?

It's because of the protection money that loyalist gangsters DEMAND from the shop keepers

They claim that their only crime is loyalty
I disagree

THEIR ONLY LOYALTY ... IS CRIME

pic related
johnny adair, former Loyalist gangster and murderer, now exiled and living in Scotland, FUCKING BASTARD

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>>2095523
>DeValera
>masterful economist

>>2095611
>Dev
>beloved

>>2095359
This.

>>2095570
> Loyalists sell drugs to the communities that they claim to protect
If you're trying to imply nationalists don't do this you're a retard. I live in South Armagh, we have serious meth problems and literally everyone smokes weed. If you don't think the IRA are in on this every dealer around will tell you otherwise

Not to mention there's nice streets in East Belfast as well.

>>2095640
Those pricks are connected the the cartels in Dublin and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Republican movement

Sure, there's nice places in East Belfast but my comparison between the Falls and the Shankill was to demonstrate how two roads that practically run parallel have drastically different levels of business and prosperity due the cancer of gangsterism

>>2092309
british army didn't commit any crimes.

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>>2095770

>>2095611
I wasn't talking about him.

Lemass a best

>>2089870
Not only that, but they both killed more of themselves than of the other.

>>2095770
They were as bad as the UDA desu

>>2095703
>o with the Republican movement
If you don't think nationalist gangsters have anything to do with the republican movement, you should also acknowledge that loyalist gangsters aren't motivated by their expressed philosophy either. They are both simply motivated by lust for profit.

>>2095703
Every single paramilitary organisation in Northern Ireland, on either side of the divide, is driven by money and nigger-tier bloodlust.

The IRA of the Troubles fought for a cause, then splintered and splintered until it became about killing Brits willy nilly.

The UDA/UVF/RUC were all about just killing irish people.

One side was significantly more of a dick to civilians, but people don't seem to count irish catholics as civilians because "they might have been in the IRA."

They're all scum today, but the attitude that the enemy of innocents in Ulster is the irish is literal revisionism since the RUC and UDA were beating and bombing innocents way before the IRA let off a single bullet in the Troubles.

>>2096237
>The IRA of the Troubles fought for a cause, then splintered and splintered until it became about killing Brits willy nilly.
bit inconsistent

>>2089441
We didn't want to fight with Britain in WW2 as we where right in the middle of our long and hard struggle for political independence at that time and being neutral in the war would be an excellent assertion of this emerging independence. We where not totally neutral and where more on Britains side, when RAF pilots crashed we sent them over the border but with Germans they where arrested, we sent firefighters over the border to help with bombing in Northern Ireland. Germany punished us for this by bombing Dublin.
It would have been the easy move to fight with them, but we took the move requiring genuine bravery and maintained our own independence. I don't think any other country has fought so relentlessly for freedom and no people has such a reputation for fighting. Not cowards certainly.

>>2095770
TOMMY WUZ A GOOD BOY

HE DINNU DO NUFFIN

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>>2096201
>>2096237

Say hello to Dee Stitt, UDA gunman, convicted Terrorist and Gangster.

He and many other "Community Workers" in the loyalist areas are, and this is the Chief Constable's own words

>Community Workers at day, paramilitaries by night

But here's the thing, Dee is special
Dee is SOOO special that the government gave him nearly £1 million for his "community program" for the loyalist area

'Some would say that's paying off the playground bully to behave
Others would say that's extortion of the Tax payers
Some people, particularly in Clandeboye, are outraged
Especially when Dee was behind the attack of a man who decided to STAND UP to the loyalist gangsters infiltrating the area to sell drugs

Dee is using loyalism and those communities to line his own pockets, and there are many more like him

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>>2089441
>Are they cowards?
no
>Should they have joined the British in World War 2?
provided secret aid to British and barely qualified as neutral
>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
Some did, some didn't. Personally I think it was bad.
>Were the IRA of the 60s freedom fighters or memeraiders?
freedom fighters to become memeraiders
>Everything in Ireland's history points to them being petty scrappers and cowards at best.
t.eternal anglo

>>2096423
also the Irish had about 4 anti air guns during ww2 started so they wouldn't have been much help outside of allowing allies to use treaty ports

>>2094999
Yeah county Wexford saw abit of the bombing due to being coastal.My little village got bombed because they taught it was Manchester.

>>2096509
kek

>>2089441
Irishfag here.
We should've stayed with the Empire.
The only people who were oppressed and gave a fuck were Catholic, so if you didn't give a fuck about either sides of Christianity, there's no reason to hate the British.
Catholic rule in Ireland fucked us over.
It also made our flag ugly as fuck.

>All these plastic paddies who are 1/4th Irish defending memeraiders

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The thing about Ireland, OP, particularly the ROI, is that their existence through the mid to late 1900s was an absolute minefield.

They aren't some little mainland European country where borders shift constantly throughout history; they are right in England-arguably one of history's biggest players-back door.

They managed to fight arguably one of the greatest guerrilla campaigns in history against an Empire with its centre just across the channel. When they gained their freedom, they almost fucked it all up with the Irish Civil war.

The politicians still left standing afterwards did an incredible job of shepherding the nation into the future, when it really didn't have much to stand on.

Cosgrave kept things afloat during the civil war having barely escaped execution.
De Valera brought legitimacy and even prestige to a country that didn't fight in WW2, giving a great goddamned speech against Churchill's attitude of "we should have just invaded them and made them fight."

Then you have Sean Lemass-Ireland's own sneaky version of Eisenhower.

Say what you like about bogniggers, but the ROI could have gone a hell of a lot worse.

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>>2097601
To expand on De Valera's speech-something which is really the best argument against OP's accusation of "cowardice" in World War 2:

"Mr. Churchill is proud of Britain’s stand alone, after France had fallen and before America entered the War. Could he not find in his heart the generosity to acknowledge that there is a small nation that stood alone not for one year or two, but for several hundred years against aggression; that endured spoliations, famines, massacres in endless succession; that was clubbed many times into insensibility, but that each time on returning consciousness took up the fight anew; a small nation that could never be got to accept defeat and has never surrendered her soul?"

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>The Anglos arbitrary draws a border including many Catholic-majority counties between the Republic of Ireland and "Ulster"
>Anglos later get free hands to persecute those Catholics
>Germany don't
>The UK somehow better for Ireland than Germany

>>2097707
>>Anglos later get free hands to persecute those Catholics

And yet they didn't, despite having free reign to do so. Makes you think.

>>2097738
>What's the Northern Ireland's civil rights movement?

>>2097634
Dev speeches are all fine and dandy but he turned the State over to the Vatican
A power that nearly 100 yrs later is finally being shaken off

>>2089772
What did Ireland have to fear from Nazis? What could the Nazis have done that Britain hasn't done to Ireland before?

>>2095640
well what about RAAD

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ailtir%C3%AD_na_hAis%C3%A9irghe

This article is amazing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality_during_World_War_II

>Ireland maintained a public stance of neutrality to the end by refusing to close the German and Japanese Legations, and the Taoiseach Éamon de Valera signed the book of condolence on Adolf Hitler's death on 2 May 1945, and personally visited Ambassador Hempel, following the usual protocol on the death of a Head of State of a state with a legation in Ireland. The visits caused a storm of protest in the United States.[47] Irish envoys in other nations did likewise, but no other Western European democracies followed Ireland's example.[48]

>In response to claims that Ireland had failed to take up the moral fight against Nazism, the Secretary of the Department of External Affairs, Joe Walshe, answered in 1941 that:[8]

>“... small nations like Ireland do not and cannot assume a role as defenders of just causes except [their] own ... Existence of our own people comes before all other considerations ... no government has the right to court certain destruction for its people; they have to take the only chance of survival and stay out.

Official Irish WW2 policy was virtually the 14 words.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_J._Flanagan

>"How is it that we do not see any of these [Emergency Powers] Acts directed against the Jews, who crucified Our Saviour nineteen hundred years ago, and who are crucifying us every day in the week? How is it that we do not see them directed against the Masonic Order? How is it that the I.R.A. is considered an illegal organisation while the Masonic Order is not considered an illegal organisation? [...] There is one thing that Germany did, and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is the honey, and where the Jews are there is the money."

>>2089441
'Twas better to die 'neath an Irish sky than at Suvla or Sud-El-Bar.

>>2097707
Nigger being a catholic in Ulster was almost like being a kike in Germany for a while.

Police raiding homes and beating people, civil rights movements/protests being ambushed and attacked, fenians not getting hired/having their businesses burnt out.

Anglos are truly a menace.

>>2098100
I can't really blame him, he had to look for anything to properly distinguish Ireland as a nation-this was before the resurgence of Irish culture a bit later on.
One thing that was very irish was Catholicism so he was right up the asshole of the vatican.

Not a good move, but one that makes sense I suppose.

Also Ireland absolutely savagely severed ties with the vatican a few years ago over the kiddy-fiddling scandal and the Vatican were infinitely assmad at the put down.

>>2095359
>implying the Germans wouldn't have gased all you worthless potatoes eaters the first chance they got

You can try to defend your cowardice all you want, but you are still cowards. You lot wouldn't even fight like men during the troubles, resorting to fighting like sand niggers. You're a disgrace.

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>>2099190
>being this mad that you lost to a bog

Will England ever recover?

>>2094021
German U-boats sunk Irish flagged ships all the time during WW2. Proof that the Irish are cucks. Even when they manage to uncuck themselves from the brits, they just go to the germans to cuck them.

>>2099066
Why are you bringing up the Blueshirts and the Ailtirí in the same breath as the government? FF and FG fucking hated each other in those days.

My Granny and Granddad's families wouldn't talk to each other over that shit.

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>Irish ""people""

>Irish ""Language""


Is ireland literally a meme tier country?

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>>2097388
>i-if we just stopped being Catholic like the British wanted they'd stop trying to exterminate us
and people say Christianity is slave mentality

kill yourself seánín

>>2099356
the amount of people claiming to be able to speak Irish and wanting to speak Irish has gone up a lot since the early 20th century, the government just does nothing for it and the education system is shite

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lp

>>2099356
100%. Ireland has been under English domination since 1250

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>>2099413
They plunged the country into civil war and tension while further decreasing the chance of economic expansion because of "muh strong beliefs" and "muh independence". How the fuck can anyone justify that. In contrast to pro catholic counties who were glorified bogs, you have the indifferent / pro Protestant counties, whom flourished aesthetically and economically.

>>2097388
>The only people who were oppressed and gave a fuck were Catholic
So.....93% of the population.

>>2099463
Nice made up statistic.

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>>2099207
>England
He's probably not English. Only an orangeman can get that salty

>>2099431
mate of mine fingered her outside an underage disco in carlow once

>>2097388
>Irishfag here.
t. billy from ballymena.

>>2097634
>>2097601
Worth mentioning the level of hypocricy that invading Ireland would be
>We are declaring war on Germany for not respecting a newly formed nations sovernty
>Ya I know we just invaded our neighbour who is a small, newly independant nation
>I mean its okay when we do it, we're the British empire

>>2099460
>They plunged the country into civil war and tension
who?

the Catholic Church were a moderate or conservative force in Ireland since the 18th century you clueless fuck, they weren't the ones pushing the hardest for Independence by any stretch of the imagination

>>2099483
I'm not blaming the church you numbskull. I'm talking about the Nationalists and strong Catholics. Were you under the assumption that I'd believe militarised priests fought against the British?

>>2099066
>and personally visited Ambassador Hempel
This isnt surprising, Hempel and DeValera maintained a good working relationship. Hempel wasnt like that uppidty little shite stain David Gray. One of the reasons people think that Dev signed the book was out of respect for Hempel and to piss off Gray

>>2099190
Unionists are and worse that the sjws in america and britain still bitching that the elections didnt go their way. Just know we could have join the war and youd all be learning a near dead language in school now . The brits never gave a fuck about any of ye

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>>2099460
>you have the indifferent / pro Protestant counties, whom flourished aesthetically and economically.
Ah yes, Antrim, the glorious jewel in Ireland's crown.

Honestly lad we don't have to speculate, we have a control subject. Look at the shithole that is Northern Ireland, thank fuck we got out and spare a thought for the poor Northern catholics who didn't have the choice and the poor protestants who were too cucked to make the right one.

>>2099486
I don't get it, you're blaming people for being oppressed for holding certain beliefs?
are you retarded?
how do you even reconcile that with Protestant men essentially spearheading the original Nationalist movement, like Wolfe Tone who Pearse called the Father of Irish Nationalism?

how can you honestly be this much of a cuck

>>2099491
>Antrim
>Relevant
>what is Dublin

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>>2099473
Is it really that far from the truth though?

>>2099473
Actually thinking back that might just have been the south, either way a vast majority were Catholic

>>2099493
They were oppressed because they were thoroughly spooked.

>>2099494
Dublin flourished because it was the capital city. All trade flows in there. The poltical allegiances of the people living there didn't contribute at all.

Lads, Ill be honest, Ive a history exam (Im 18 and in LC, calm your tits before you call me underage and b&) in 20 mins. This is a great way of studying

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>>2099475
stale meme

>>2099486
"Strong Catholics" were also a moderate force. The church was always lukewarm towards nationalism, often opposing it openly. If you think the Irish nationalist movement was a catholic plot you're either retarded or, more likely, brainwashed by growing up in Norn Iron

>>2099498
woah you're so enlightened lad

>>2099498
>le spooks
If you're a stirnerite anarchist, rejoining the empire is incredibly stupid too.

Quit being a contrarian bitch

>>2099502
I didn't imply that it was. Stop changing my words around to fit your argument.

>>2099504
I'm not pro empire or pro independence. I just think it was fucked up to create a fucking war because of petty ideology.

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>>2099494
Do you mean the Dublin of 1910, where the Parnellites won every seat except Trinity, or the Dublin of 1918 where Sinn Féin won every seat except trinity?

>>2099514
Politics didn't matter. British money is what created Dublin.

>>2099513
I'm sure ye wouldn't be opposed to some Marxist ideology starting a revolution though no?

>>2099513
It was not a war of "petty ideology". There are no wars that start purely for the sake of ideology. There are significant economic and material factors that contribute to all conflicts.

People don't just have a good auld scrap for the fuck of it

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>>2099501
Chuir cara liom méar inti lasmuigh de Dhioscó faoi aois i gCeatharlach uair amháin.

>>2089870

Watch the Judean People's Front/People's Front of Judea scenes from Life of Brian. Then add in a bunch of bombing and shooting. That's basically it. Different groups who are supposed to be on the same side but hate each other more than they hate the common enemy, due to some quasi imagined slight or argument. "I think we should fight the loyalists and the British!" "I think we should fight the British and the loyalists!" "TRAITOR!!!!"

You see the exact same thing going on in Syria and Iraq right now, with hundreds of different factions all fighting for and against each other. The Al Nusra/Islamic State split being the most obvious.

>>2099513
Except you're very obviously spooked. The egoist choice was independence.

>>2099519
>I'm sure ye wouldn't be opposed to some Marxist ideology starting a revolution though no?
The Marxists were pro-independence and still are.

Literally everyone knows that independence was the right choice.

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Will the next generation of Irish students be staunch Cavaliers?

>>2099542
me with the targe

>>2099517
This is true, but the Brits saw the entire island as an off-shore colony.
It existed to make money, and what wasn't sent back to Westminster was invested into Dublin, Cork, Belfast (though it had its own thing going) to make these towns a bit more presentable to the middle class and foreign visitors

>>2099517
>Politics didn't matter. British money is what created Dublin.

>In contrast to pro catholic counties who were glorified bogs, you have the indifferent / pro Protestant counties, whom flourished aesthetically and economically.

You're all over the place la

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>>2099542
Confederates maybe

>>2099542
thon colleen with the musket has a hell of a smirk

>>2099567
big mouth on her but I'd feek her still

>>2099542
>Standardbearer Stiofan
doesn't really give a shit about history but is just happy to be hanging out with his friends, thinks he looks like a bit of a dork
>Liam "Gallowglass" Murphy
believes he was Hugh O'Neill in a past life, spends his student loan travelling to Rome every year to lay a wreath at his grave while his parents think he's in Ibiza with the lads
>Siobhan "Sniper at Work" O'Shaughnessy
dreams of the wholesale slaughter of Ireland's Protestant population, drug mule for the Real IRA, has not taken her meds in some time
>Flagpole Francis
ardent monarchist, infrequent bather
>Gráinne "Fíon agus Báinne" Nic Láinne
emotionally crippled alcoholic
>Unimpressed Ultán
"sure they're all just a bunch of dead folk, aren't they"
>Mícheál the Wonderer
has been having intense visions of the second coming of Christ, and had thought that history field trip would be a brief moment of respite. he thought wrong.

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>>2095770

So which Irish TDs, Taoiseachs, Tanaistes and Presidents have the most confirmed kills?

>>2101162
That Indian woman who died in childbirth is clearly +1 to Enda Kenny

All I know of the IRA is from movies and tv shows, how were they able to get such top of the line weaponry? Or is this some meme pushed by cinema?

>>2091384
>Semantics

>>2101208
they have a few rocket launchers and heavy guns

there's a video out there of them shooting at a helicopter with one

>how were they able to get such top of the line weaponry?
Irish-American funding mostly, a few of them (most now) were involved in extortion and drugs

then there's people like Gaddy trying to piss off Brits by funding them

>>2101208
Funded and supplied by Irish Americans. Literally.

These supply lines suddenly dried up around the middle of September 2001; one wonders why...

>>2101208
They didn't, the most exotic weaponry they had were surface to air missiles.

And they got it from foreign governments either sympathetic to the cause like Libya (their most notable arms supplier) or from governments hostile to the USA like the USSR and North Korea. A lot of it was also delivered by Americans and while this was significant early into the troubles it became less important later into it compared to foreign government support.

>>2101324
Except
a) The GFA happened before 2001 and the PIRA agreed to decommission
b) That had much more to do with cold-war tensions fizzling out and so former suppliers were less interested in supporting the IRA.
c) Contrary to what I'm sure some loyalists believe the IRA did not do 9/11

>>2101354
*hostile to the UK.

>>2101354
More like those who had been funding terrorism via the IRA for years suddenly had a dose of their own medicine. And they didn't like it.

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>>2101354
>IRA did not do 9/11

>>2101367
Yes it's also widely known that Gaddafi was an Irish American and that also all Irish-Americans can predict the future and ended the troubles 3 years before 9/11 happened. Fucks sake.

What is it about Irish threads that make retards crawl out of the woodwork?

>>2101354
>>2101379
The last IRA bomb was in 2001, my man.

Not a coincidence.

>>2101367
yeah I'm sure it really made them think and had nothing to do with government crackdown on that sort of thing

go to bed billy

>>2101382
It also happened a month before 9/11.

You forgot to mention that part.

>>2089441
Are they cowards or have their resources in fighting been consistently limited? Ireland has always been isolated in its fight against England because there was never anything in it for other countries to help (there were a couple of abortive French plans though). As other anons have said, why should Ireland have sacrificed a generation of men and its limited warmaking ability for England?

Fuck the English and their assfucking island. As an American I'll never understand why my countrymen or anyone else can call themselves "anglophiles" considering that those odious cunts used to own my country too and burned down its fucking capital city.

Ireland did nothing wrong in WWII. America should have followed its lead but FDR was a cum swallowing germanophobe like Churchill.

>>2101429
>As an American I'll never understand why my countrymen or anyone else can call themselves "anglophiles"
Maybe because Britain created America, and gave it all its major principles, laws, ethics, technology, ...

>>2101429
> used to own
That's how colonies work, son. Unless you're a native American from an eastern tribe, you can have no right to say 'own'. Britain created you, so this is like saying a father 'owns' his son.

> burned down its capital city
> city
It was the white house.

Not too bright, are you?

>>2101208
American here:
You could literally throw money into a jar in more than a few bars in Boston and be guaranteed it'd go towards arming the IRA.
We also loved sending them AR-15s.


Song related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cw7nrIoo3c

>>2101383
This. It's much harder for private citizens to move military equipment out of the country now. The government will try to steal your shit even when what you're doing is legal.

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>>2101525
Armalite they're talking about is the AR-18 I believe

>>2101533
So I've heard. I like the pretend the 18 doesn't exist.

>>2101538
y doe

it looks nice

I'd probably buy one if this country wasn't noguns thanks to the Free State

>>2101533
It's both.

>>2101538
You're a sick fuck.

>>2101540
Pistons are heavier, more expensive, and less accurate than DI. Advantages aren't worth it. If you're going to bother with ARs, get the 15.

>>2101542
I'm also an American who vastly prefers his AK to his AR. The AR is objectively better for professional fighting forces, but I don't love it and it doesn't love me. Take the DI away and I'd throw it away.

>>2101551
I was an AKfag when I was a kid, but as I became a more hopeless, cynical individual, I eventually moved over more and more to ARs and eventually bought one for my first gun.

Still, AR-18s are sexy. No way around it.

>>2101525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX1CSSZa1v0

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Suas an Ra

>>2091717

Legitimately the only thing i know about the troubles is the IRA planted a bomb under my great uncles motorbike and killed him. Which i always thought of as a dick move.

Guy was an out of work actor guys. Seriously. Calm the fuck down. Fuck.

>>2095570

My mate saw the dude on the left get assassinated

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>>2089441
Why would they go kill some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful UK. And kill them for what? They never called them paddies, they never lynched them, they didn't put no dogs on them, they didn't rob them of their country, rape and kill their mothers and fathers... Go to war for what?

>>2101682
There's generally a consensus amoung people-irish nationalists included-that the bombing campaign of the provos get a little excessive.

On the one hand, it can be argued that in many cases there was an intended target, but on the other hand some bombs did go off without any warnings and whatnot, so it's a mixed bag.

Like someone else in the thread said, at one point during the troubles the IRA's goals/tactics/ideas were splintered and a bit all over the place-this was due to a number of factors.

One thing I never understood was the bombing of big Mountbatton. What was the need for it?

Both sides were fucking retarded with their 'tactics' but (>>2091717) isn't wrong.

>>2103459
Tyronefag here. Anyone that bothers to go into details agrees that there was a need for the PIRA in the early 70s because they were only retaliating against Unionist attacks, and deterred further attacks on Catholic communities.
After that though? The 20 years up to the GFA was just meandering and didn't accomplish anything for either side

>>2103556
I guess so.

So it's reasonably fair to say that the troubles-massively simplified-boils down to:

>Loyalist atrocities
>Republican retaliation
>Memeraiding from both sides
>GFA

>>2103854
a member of the Royal family is a high profile target, killing him put eyes on the situation in the North and the Troubles that the British always tried their hardest to ignore until they couldn't anymore

besides he was a pedo/pedo-affiliate, possibly a boyfucker and a confirmed cuck

>>2103459
>One thing I never understood was the bombing of big Mountbatton. What was the need for it?
There was no need for it, he was just an old man doing no on any harm. Who ever blow up the boat deserved to be shot

>>2103865
Then kill him and not his wife and two kids not even 18 yet

>>2103870
his wife and kids didn't die, he was on it with his 15 year old grandson or something

feel sorry for the lad and the other killed with him sure though

>>2089636
>countless
8

>>2103867
>>2103865
>>2103870
>>2103879
Pretty sure this was during the memeraiding period in the 20 years leading up to the GFA where each side just kept trying to one-up each other. Nothing gained, lots lost.

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>>2103887
why is memeraiding a phrase now?

It's wrong to paint with a broad brush like that, the IRA wasn't a cohesive group of individuals receiving top-down orders to carry out the things they did - that's obvious, otherwise the whole situation would look bi-polar - it's been splintered into little cells since 1917

>>2103893
Because when it kicked off, it was because loyalists mistreated catholics.
The IRA retaliated.

You could go back and forth calling each thing a "retaliation" but the reality is for 20 years nobody had any clue what they were doing and both sides killed more than they needed to, and fucked it up pretty heavily.

The IRA did a good job keeping the brits on their toes but an abysmal job at everything else.
The UDA and RUC hunted civilians.

But you are right, the mass splintering is one of the reasons I don't see the IRA of the troubles as "bad guys" or "terrorists."

It was a very complex conflict.

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>>2103900
>but the reality is for 20 years nobody had any clue what they were doing and both sides killed more than they needed to
well that implies there's ever a limit to sectarian blood-letting

tit-for-tat was in Ulster for centuries, way back to the early 17th and especially the 1641 rebellion where you had revenge slaughters every time a mass-hanging happend, and other such things
the conflict is age old

>>2101551
>Pistons are worse than DI
>I love AK and hate AR
Wut?

>>2099550
>Religion = politics
No.

>>2099423
problem is if irish gets promoted in education even though it's basically just a you might end up like wales where their shitty meme language takes up a disproportionate amount of education leaving them behind the rest of the British Isles.

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why are irish literally niggers?

can't even take part of their island back

>>2099190
when the common man fights like an army, they get fucked by real armies. It would be objectively retarded for the nationalists to fight like that.

>the viet cong were cowards who didn't line themselves to get fucked by the US

literally the same argument

>>2104413
northern Ireland is not even worth annexing

if we wanted a failed independent state we'd go to cornwall

>Are they cowards
No

>Should they have joined the British in world war 2?
No

>Was treating Irish men who fought for Britain poorly wrong?
No. They were traitors to Ireland.

>Were the IRA of the 60's freedom fighters or memeraiders?
Freedom fighters

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>>2089441

no

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>>2090655
>Ireland is British and belongs in the UK
Pic related wants a word with you

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>>2104957