Does female sexual liberation mark the last stage of a civilization

>>2049021
no, anime does

Probably. Once you stop distributing the pussy in an amicable and fair way and stop giving men a reason to give a fuck shit tends to break down yeah.


t. not a virgin I swear

>>2049021
No, but a belief in "conservatism" and that the past was better generally does. If you want to make something great again then it means it's fucked now, and empires and civilizations only get one shot before the power compass shifts towards some other place.

It wasn't the case for the Aztecs or Incans or Ottomans.

>>2049021
What anime?

People having the liberty to live their own damn life is not usually considered a sign of imminent social collapse.

>>2049045
Yes it is

>>2049021
>JD Unwin - Sex and Culture
Yes it is

>>2049045
given how horribly stratified most societies were until very recently I'd say strictly speaking it is. Of course, it was freedom to live your life until some warlord came along and enslaved/killed you.

>>2049035
>>2049045
how many books on civilization collapse have you read?

you can't sustain a civilization where the average male don't trust the average woman to carry his children.

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>yfw in the next major war 10s of millions of neets will refuse to get drafted or get factory jobs necessary to keep the war going because Chad was hoarding all the pussy
our time is coming soon brothers we will have the last laugh

>>2049021
This time will be different. This time Japan will have made fembots so the beta uprising won't take place.

Unless women are stupid enough to legislate over fembots.

Our country is founded on the premise that citizens can live, work and marry freely. I think it's served us pretty well.

>>2049069
Everyone will just die in a nuclear hellfire anyway, there would be no point even trying to fight.

>>2049061
A civilization's collapse doesn't look like you think it does, sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's a war, sometimes a mix of many factors that slowly erode it over time until it stops being relevant. The "cucks" have little to do with it, although sometimes it's a single individual that sets things in motion to bring down a nation, like you know, Hitler.

>>2049084
the conditions are diferent but the cycle is the same.

is like saying that being old is not followed by death because some people die young.
in this case, being old and degeneracy are the same.

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>>2049094
>degeneracy
I sinceely pity people like you. The past, the real past, not the idealized stuff you see in art or read about in other works was not noble or righteous. Go read any serious book about the bronze age for example.

>>2049094
> being old and degeneracy are the same.

Um no, degeneracy has destroyed no nation. economic collapse and foreign invasion (I mean an army not immigrants) maybe, but "degenerate" nations have survived for centuries.

>>2049112
>>2049113
I didn't mean is the cause of the collapse, is a correlation factor, that's why I said old.

societies begin with a strong social cohesion, this lessens over generations until in the end there is a degeneracy shit, like gay shit, females being sluts, crime, drugs, the break of the family core unit, inmigration, race mixing and all that shit.

That society in the ends lack social cohesion needed to defend it from invaders.

Just like today sweden.

>>2049124
>societies begin with a strong social cohesion, this lessens over generations until in the end there is a degeneracy shit, like gay shit, females being sluts, crime, drugs, the break of the family core unit, inmigration, race mixing and all that shit.
Jesus Christ, you really don't know anything that isn't meme history.

This board is fucked

>>2049141
memes are the name of the chan game, it simply conveys information easily and faster.

>>2049124
>societies begin with a strong social cohesion

No, they really don't. They begin with a tenuous web of connections that sustains itself like a cluster of annelid worms and manages to prosper in its material conditions, and then eventually this web of connections either changes or is forcibly changed into another form.

>>2049041
Shimoneta

>>2049154
the invaders usually comes from more tribal and traditional societies.

just like today africans and muslims on europe.

>>2049147
My goodness yes

>>2049159
That doesn't really hold. Plenty of non-traditional invaders have screwed over more traditional or conservative societies (the 20th century is in fact defined in large part by the conservative regimes of two separate Germanies getting their shit pushed in by less traditional or conservative or tribalistic opponents).

You're doing whatever you can to stretch history to fit your narrative to legitimize your own ideals. It's really poor form intellectually speaking.

>>2049124
You just described the height of the Roman Empire, yet somehow it managed to survive for several more centuries and died AFTER all that shit ended.

>>2049159
>the invaders usually comes from more tribal and traditional societies.
No. Just no. Carthague was hardly destroyed and salted by barbarians.

>>2049165
what do you mean by traditional?
maybe we're using diferent terms.

I mean they have traditional roles.

>>2049170
The roman empire collapse in the IV century.

>but it survived in other name
may as well say that the vatican being real today makes the roman empire still alive today.

>>2049180
Again, I think you don't understand how a collapse works.

>>2049183
explain it then.
maybe we're talking about diferent things.

>>2049180
>The roman empire collapse in the IV century.
Yeah and all the shit you described was happening in the I century.

>>2049191
a civilization generally last 10 generations (255 years).

>>2049194
Now that's some high caliber bullshit. Either that or you have a very peculiar (read: dumb, retarded, aplicable only when it's convenient) definition of civilization.

>>2049201
the citation comes from Fate of empires.

>>2049194
Basing that off that retarded meme image posted here? You going to ignore the fact that Rome itself was an empire for over 400 years, and a regional power for over 600? Or that Assyria was a major power for nearly 1000? Or that China maintained a stable state, unbroken only several times that lasted for at most 100 years, for nearly 2000?

>>2049209
>Fate of empires
Read: Empire. The French and British both lost all claims to that title over 50 years ago but their civilization/society sure as fuck didn't collapse.

>>2049220
>he thinks there's diferent versions, dinasties, kingdoms and eras in those examples

>>2049223
French and British empires collapsed, so your point?

collapse doesn't mean the population all dies retard.

>>2049209
I just looked it up, the way he arrives as this number is transparently BS.

He counts the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire as separate civilizations to make the 250 year thing work. The "fall" of the latter is dated to 180, ignoring the Dominate totally.

The end of the Islamic golden age is dated to 880, a date of no particular significance

The "fall" of the Ottoman Empire apparently occurred in 1570, again a date of no particular significance. Why not 1683? Or y'know, when they actually collapsed, in 1922?

Spain is said to have collapsed in 1750, yet again a date of no particular significance. 1643 or 1808 would make more sense, but that wouldn't fit the neat narrative.

There are probably more.

>>2049226
>French and British Empires collapsed
France and Britain still maintain a cultural and national hegemony
Do you considered each roman dynasty, or even each roman emperor with a change of policy a "collapse"? Do you consider the transition of power from the Roman Senate to the Roman emperor a collapse? You're gonna have to qualify "collapse" cause everyone here thinks your a moron dealing in topics that you have no nuanced knowledge of.

>>2049045
The nuclear family breaks down. A tree begins at its roots, and a rootless tree falls.

Men are by design the providers and protectors of their society, women the caretakers and child raisers. These roles are not set only by society, but by nature. To go against them is to work against nature rather than with it, and we're weaker working against the forces of nature.

Men tend to think more logically, women more emotionally, and therefore they should not be involved in political affairs. To make critical decisions based on quick emotional response is to make mistakes, such as letting a bunch of people that hate you and have a completely contrary culture to yours flood your country because you saw a picture of some dead baby.. for example. Women voting and being able to hold office will be the death of the West, and getting to this point starts with "sexual revolution" which takes women out of their feminine and motherly roles and basically turns them into free whores roaming the streets. I get that they want to have fun, but we're not going to build a great society in this way. Girls seem to hate when guys "have fun" and sit around playing video games all day, thus not fulfilling masculine and fatherly roles.

But no one will listen because I'm a reactionary bigot, we're pretty much beyond fucked at this point anyway. Oh well, start stocking up on water filters.

>>2049244
so your argument is that civilizations don't follow the same cycles?

>>2049226
The point you're making you blithering idiot is that the fall of an empire somehow equates to societal of civilization collapse. Just because the Tang dynasty was replaced or the Brits lost their overseas colonies doesn't mean the native population somehow experienced some kind of dark age or regression resulting in a new social order.

>>2049256
No my "argument" is that you haven't qualified "collapse."
You haven't shown any evidence that society is currently collapsing and you certainly haven't shown us any pattern of civilizations falling due to the social changes your arguing against.
In the real world things are dichotomies with beginnings and ends. A nation isn't its government, and cultural changes don't have a measurable net + or - factor like some video game.

>>2049124
t. brainwashed /pol/ virgin

>>2049270
>>2049272
>>2049282
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-y2aqYwOQ0

>there's not a current economic decline of the west
>bluepilled idiots.

>>2049285
Nice goalposts you mongoloid.

>>2049149
More like disinformation

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>>2049285
>bluepill
Just stop.

>>2049149
What you're describing is a "talking point" and Orwell generally held them to be the height of unthinking rhetoric

>>2049285
>all those related video recommendations
Jesus Christ. Ishygddt

>>2049069
What use would NEETs be anyway? There are reasons we can't get jobs or relationships.

>>2049069
You'd just get thrown in jail for treason and be used up by Jamal or shot in a firing squad if you refused military orders

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>>2049037
>It wasn't the case for ottomans.

OP said 'CIVILIZATION'

/pol/ is amazing, you're like a right wing California. How do you manage to be so wrong while feeling so smugly superior?

no, authoritatian demagogues do

>he hasn't read the collapse of complex societies
>he thinks societies collapse because of muh degeneracy and "culture" whatever that means

LMAO

>>2049061
diminishing returns lead to collapse, not anything to do with women

>>2049494
This

>>2049251
Except this is only true when living a natural life style. Our current economic system doesn't necessitate men or women being primary providers or care takers as most jobs generally provide the tools and training to be done by either. It doesn't matter if man was built to hunt when his job is in a fucking call center. There's nothing natural about it or 90% of other jobs out there.

>>2049061
And how can a woman trust that child will be provided for?

Marriage? Propriety? Neither of those saved Rome. Neither of them saved Old China.

Trying to classify declines systematically is an endeavor in futility.

>>2049021
Behavioral sink.

>>2049021
Rome was so sexually liberal, Augustus had to set laws to fight it which nobody gave a shit about because it was autistic.

And that was at the height of the empire.

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activities about sex and food are the two activities where you encounter the most diversity of likes and dislikes. it is retarded to want to control them and judge them

>>2049618
>it is retarded to want to control them and judge them

Pretty easy to do so though.

>>2049494
>diminishing returns lead to collapse, not anything to do with women

You mean diminishing returns like a birth rate below replacement?

>>2049180
>I mean they have traditional roles.

Traditional in your view. But the Roman social order at the height of Pax Romana scarcely resembles any social order at the height of what we would call "western civilization."

The rise and fall of societies is mostly a matter of material constraints, which can be mitigated, but not entirely overcome by ideals.

>>2049021
So are you saying that male sexual liberation was already a thing before female one? How can one exist without the other? The only thing that comes to mind is ancient Greece where women were owned and protected by their families or husbands while men were free to have buttsex whenever they liked.

>>2049112
>the past wasn't perfect, therefore everything sucked
Do you sincerely believe this? Progressivism truly is an illness of the mind.

>>2049674
you know that greek women made plenty of cuckolds

>>2049635
Gains in economy and Qol decrease the higher you are.

Access to electricity 24/7 is massive.

>>2049638
Technically theres the Belief that the Greeco-Roman world was its own Civilization

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>>2049041
Trust me, you don't want to watch it. It's kinda lewd.

>>2049069
>factory jobs
Automated by robots

>>2049061

>you can't sustain a civilization where the average male don't trust the average woman to carry his children.

It's a good thing the average male isn't a basement-dwelling neckbeard.

I miss when 4chan was a bunch of apathetic self-hating losers instead of a bunch of paranoid right-wing extremists.

>>2050524
t. roasty

>>2050524
Don't worry it's all ironic

>>2050529
No, it's not.

>>2050529

>implying

It really isn't.

>>2050529
>>>/r/eddit

go away normalfag

>>2049692
Humans have always been degenerate. The only people freaking out about humanity somehow getting "worse" are sheltered millennials who are finally getting their first taste of reality and are unable to cope emotionally with the harsh world and are trying to retreat back into the womb. Well there are also old farts who legitimately think America was "great" in the past for anyone but the elites because they too are clinging to a romanticized past based on the happiness they experienced in childhood. Right wing conservatives are just nostalgiafags.

>>2050529
I fucking wish.

>>2050552
>That's stupid and you're stupid; the argument

>>2049021
Generally female anything is an obstacle. Ideally we would remove females from existence but they're sadly needed for reproduction. I'd say we keep them on farms like fish and artificially inseminate them until the artificial womb is technologically viable.

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Why would you all lie to yourselves on a internet board on the fact that out of control degeneracy, the destruction of the nuclear family and community values is detrimental to civilization?

Why be intellectually dishonest when you're anonymous?

>>2049021
No, it is something with no historical parallel and thus exclusive to pos-industrial revolution civilizations.
>But some brit said that
British historiography is joke, taking any absurd shit they read as being the gospel while people in the times Roman Empire knew to not take everything they read as being accurate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblywomen

>>2050580
Tell me where I'm wrong.

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There's something spooky going on in this thread.

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>>2050605
>that pic

If anything humanity is becoming more moral and less degenerate which is why we are so triggered by things that used to be normal in the past. Like prostitution, or child marriage.

>>2050826
>child marriage
in Europe? it was only used amongst the dukes and kings for land claims, average marriage age was 25

>>2050605
Why are you on a website that has prompted "degeneracy" for over a decade?

>>2049061
>the fate of empires.

Heloo Mayan wife! Good to see you still love me, but uh, the droughts still on, so looks like our civilisation is boned anyways.

>>2050605
I don't understand the love for nuclear family. A household should be and least three or four generational, not just dad + mom + kids. The idiotic notion that children should leave the house upon reaching adulthood is one of the things that killed the west.

>>2050849
Boomers. Anything they remember from their childhoods is an american tradition.

And this thread is still going strong

Kill yourselves mods

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>>2050849
And this is why south slavs + mediterraneans are the true master race.

>tfw your fifty year old father is still living with his mother

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>>2050849
>the idiotic nation that children should leave the house upon reaching adulthood is one of the things that killed the west
And like many things responsible for killing the west, you can thank the eternal Anglo for it.

>>2050826
>prostitution
>bad
t. swedish cuck

>>2051009
Prostitution is bad. If you're talking about Sweden, they have a law that says women selling their bodies is okay, but men buying them is illegal, which is just feminism on steroids.

>>2050874
It really doesn't help that they've got rose tinted glasses and shit memory.

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>>2049021
No

secular philosophies emphasizing the here-and-now like stoicism are the heralds of a culture which has exhausted its creative spirit and has no further refinements to make regarding the nature of the abstract and the expressive, leading to new generations of hard-nosed realists who see their own country as a spoil, and their own countrymen as an impediment to those spoils, no longer bound by the traditional literary/religious/philosophical narratives which previously glued their society together and gave them a common vision for a society worth striving for

blaming women is scapegoating. From its earliest and most humble beginnings Rome was a place where women had considerably more rights than women in any other contemporary society, and that didn't stop them from conquering Europe.

>>2050833
The fact that it was ever normal in any context is bad

>>2049021
Yes because women will eventually reduce the entire civilization to a neolithic state because their reproductive strategy is unfit for modern civilization.

>>2050154
Holy fuck that is just I have no word my dick has turned into a neutron star right now.

>>2051577
My dick just died.

>>2051653
Her voice actress died.

>>2051707
Thanks for shitting up my day

>>2051725
It's pretty much disabled me from watching that anime now. I'd rather not deal with the awkward boner and sadcringe.

There is no data to back up that idea.

I love watching all these idiot alt-right people get terrified of the women they feel entitled to having sexual ownership over will all join Chad’s harem if they are given the right to act even an iota more free than in Saudi Arabia. The fact is retards, that no woman wants to be wife no.8 in some obese 60 year old’s fuck harem. It is in fact easier for a guy in the western world to get his dick wet now than at any point in history. Ye Olde days you all pine for were in fact full of monopolized sexual access where the only way vast amounts of men could get laid was through prostitution or rape.

>>2051770
no

repeat after me:

one man
one wife
one vote

>>2051778
> giving votes to plebs
> giving wifes to plebs
Only the elite should be allowed to pass the genes.

>>2051770
>It is in fact easier for a guy in the western world to get his dick wet now than at any point in history
It's harder to find a woman interested in getting married, having kids, and fulfilling a traditional role. I don't think this will make civilization collapse but I don't think it's indicative of good societal health either.

>>2051793
>plebs
>>>/r/reddit
>elite
>You being part of that elite
AYYLMOA

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>>2051770
>woman wants
Who cares about what they want. Also see >>2050597

>>2051809
>that is considered handsome
lol in what world

>>2049035
t. someone who learned about the fall of Rome through the lens of South Park.

>>2049035
>make something great again
Yank spotted opinion disregarded

>>2051823
I literally picked a random pic from my folder. But good job chimping out you fat fuck.

>>2051823
He is handsome though. Would be better looking with dark hair and brown eyes though.

>>2051805
I am not part of the elite. This is why I am against the free sex for everyone. Only the best of us and most elite one should be allowed pleasure. Other people should work hard to step on their level and not to waste time on meaningless pleasure.

>>2051852
Define me "best", please

>>2051854
The one with most money. Money is the objective criteria of success i.e. of being the best in sphere of your choice.

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>women are free to choose their sexual partners
>they choose to have sex exclusively with aggressive and violent alpha males like drug dealers and thugs
>this gives huge incentives for men to become aggressive and violent
>civilization collapses under the weight of gang warfare

That's basically what happened in Latin America, the most sexually free region of the world. Just look at Brazil. Women are very free to choose their sexual partners there, and they choose EXCLUSIVELY to have sex with drug lords. Therefore, every man wants to be a drug lord, and crime becomes rampant.

Pic related, it's a pic taken by a Mexican drug lord.

>>2050826
Prostitution and child marriage are not degenerate. They are actually tools designed to prevent the spread of degeneracy, either by compartmentalizing male sexuality outside the sphere of social relations, or by making sure that women marry as virgins and spend their puberty and most fertile years with a husband.

>>2051883
No it's because drugs are the best way to get money.

>>2051898
Pedo apologist spotted. Go back to jacking off to your loli waifu.

>>2049021
Anyone who thinks civilisations are on rails is the real degenerate. Real life isn't like a video game.

Spengler was an idiot.

>>2050605
>the nuclear family
Nuclear family is a degenerate modern invention

>>2051883
Brazil is one of most powerful countries of the world. If anything, United State would collapse faster than this proto-super power.

>>2051883
>they choose to have sex exclusively with aggressive and violent alpha males
> they choose EXCLUSIVELY to have sex with drug lords

Right...

>>2051918
This. It was always cool to live with your parent's parents. Basically with your entire clan of family. To share wisdom between generations. To share tradition and isights between young and the old.

>>2051898
Because prostitution is always viewed as a lens alone and blamed solely as the cause of social ills but while other factors are ignored.

Like an example if you make a policy that forcefully extracts working men from their rural villages, jam them in one place with no women around as wives, gf's etc and the only way to get laid is a couple of prostitutes or fagging it up of course STI's will spread.

>>2051918
Nuclear families are basically the death of any culture that adopts the practice on a large scale. How are you supposed to feel connected to your cultural heritage if you barely know the name and face of 90% of your own family.

>>2051964
it's not long you don't see your extended family like 4-5 times a year at least during holidays

Beta males are so fucking pathetic. Stop making excuses, you lardasses.
>>2051883
They are prostitutes. They will search for the richest man regardless of their job.

>>2051990
Not all families can afford to travel that much every year. I see my extended family once every 5-7 years. I barely know or care very deeply about any of them.

>>2051883
>mexico
>south America
Also
>latin america
>the most sexually free region of the world
Shut the fuck up yank
>they choose to have sex exclusively with aggressive and violent alpha males
>they choose EXCLUSIVELY to have sex with drug lords

>>2051964
Exactly. If you don't give a fuck about your own parents and kids jow are you expected to give a fuck about your culture let alone race?

>>2052047
> let alone race?
> caring about inventions of XIX pseudo sciencists
Could as well care about phlogiston and aether, lamo.

>>2049045
As much as I love liberty and defend it,

Usually it does senpai

>>2049251
>appeal to nature

>>2052088
> fallacy fallacy

>>2052089
Probably the most annoying fallacy of all. People throwing around buzzwords to sound smart while barely knowing what they mean.

>>2049021
Why do you guys complain a lot about female sexual liberation. It's because you're virgins, right?

You do realize you live in a time when it's easiest to get pussy right?

You do realize Hundreds of years ago women and their families would find your NEET-ass far more undesirable as fuck than it is now, right? Back when dating = lead up to marriage and not just some fling thing.

In fact, if you're a NEET hundreds of years ago, you were far more worse than a slut.

Seriously, if you're still a virgin and you want puh in this day and age, then it is utter laziness in your part.

>>2052126
Everyone always wants to be a victim. NEET losers project their own inadequacy onto women who must be responsible for all their problems.

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>>2049251
>The nuclear family breaks down.
Lol Amerifag detected.

The Nuclear Family is already a breakdown of a family. Real families include your grandparents, uncles & aunts (if any) and cousins of any degree. None of this WASP picket fence bullshit families that would ignore an uncle in need or something.

I think the only fair way to judge this would be to create a female-orgasm-per-year/average-population-size matrix for dissolved societies and find the correlation.

>>2052132
Neet are the top of food chain like parasites, lions and black holes.

>>2052135
t. Don Mario Parmezzanno

>>2052132
>Everyone always wants to be a victim.
More like they're looking for someone to blame besides themselves

What the fuck are you guys even talking about
the rich have always been sluts and will always be degenerate, because they had the resources to do whatever they pleased. Now everyone is rich enough to have "fun" which is why it seems like society is falling apart

its okay will make a new better one calm down jeez and discuss some actual history

>>2052126
>You do realize you live in a time when it's easiest to get pussy right?
Not sure how many times it needs to be explained that this is not about getting laid, anybody could probably find somebody to hook up with on tinder if they desired it. It's about marriage, starting families and women taking on traditional roles which is in decline in western countries.

>>2052147
>Literally the definition of "victim".

No one doubts the fact that women choose aggressive low impulse physically strong men over physically weak, reliable and intelligent civilized men.

Women's suffrage was a mistake.

>>2052160
Traditional roles are outdated in modern society. It is like whining about not being able to hunting and gathering.

>>2052166
Then maybe the 'progress' we are making is culturally regressive. Maybe women would be happier and more fulfilled in traditional roles http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3634473/The-job-makes-happiest-Housewife-Survey-finds-stay-home-mothers-satisfied-profession.html

>>2052162
meh, I'm making a distinction between "Everybody please feel sorry for me" verses "that person is evil and needs to be punished" Though there's often overlap, the two are not mutually exclusive.

In any event, I was agreeing with you and not trying to nitpick.

>>2052160
Perhaps it is time to move onwards to other roles? Like men taking on traditionally female roles?
>>2052164
>physically weak, reliable and intelligent civilized men.
Like yourself?

>>2052177
It isn't progress being culturally regressive, but the culture itself not even being progressive enough to follow how society changed. Also this is basically known fact that job makes you unhappy.

>>2052181
Women have a stronger natural instinct for child-rearing than men on average.

>>2052177
Of course Stay-at-homes are satisfied.

They're paid in beloved children and pleasant surroundings. Any good parent likes that.

>>2052181
most males are emotionally retarded, so they will never be fit to raise children.

look up engineers versus preeschool teachers.
98% of preschool teachers are females.

not a single male wants to take care of children.

>>2052188
culture adapted to the current zeitgeist would be terrible and hellish

>>2052194
and it's a satisfaction women are moving away from, they don't want families. it's also better for a child's development to have their mother raise them instead of babysitters and television.

>>2052177
I bet men would be happier too if they could stay at home and parasite off their partner all day.

>>2050679
You're not.

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>>2050833
>average marriage age was 25
What type of fantasy view of the past do you hold onto?

>>2052208
only the ones high in estrogen. healthy males like to be occupied with work and to provide for their families.

>>2052181
>Wow we dont have to be bound to traditional roles anymore so lets just flip The type of people doing them.
Ad hominem m8

>>2050879
Does anyone even moderate /his/?

>>2052177
>Maybe women would be happier and more fulfilled in traditional roles
People don't want endless comfort and predictability, they want struggle and purpose.

That's why fascism resurfaces every few generations. The Communists and the Capitalists bickering over who's side is "happier" forgot to ask themselves if that's really what people were after in the first place, and people abandon them en masse because they've had it with the tyranny of continuously enforced happiness

>>2052223
>People don't want endless comfort and predictability, they want struggle and purpose.
Taking care of a large family is not comfortable or predictable. Women who cook, clean, and take care of children arguably have a longer work day than the men who work full-time to support them financially.
I think it's strange that somebody with fascist sympathies would be speaking ill of women performing traditional roles.

>>2052234
In modern world cleaning and cooking is practically fully automated. So would be education in like ten years.

>>2051859
>money without pedigree
t. Jew

>>2052237
Cooking and cleaning is the sideshow. Anybody who has taken care of more than 2 kids at once knows how hard it can be, provided you are actually taking care of them and not just sitting them in front of Frozen for the third time that week.

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>>2052234
>Taking care of a large family is not comfortable or predictable.
Let's see if your mind changes after the 4th night in a row that you've had to change your baby's diaper and wipe the shit out of the creases in his legs at 3 in the morning.

Raising children is mostly thankless, tedious, unpaying bitch work. The reason women shy from it these days is because it leaves them completely at the financial mercy of their husbands, who are free to blow the family fortune on booze, gambling, or flights of fancy. And they don't want to live in a world where they are expected to sit there and keep quiet if he abuses and/or neglects her and the kids.

And that door swings both ways: if she turns into a hateful hag you aren't marooned in a loveless marriage.

>I think it's strange that somebody with fascist sympathies would be speaking ill of women performing traditional roles.
I didn't say that I have fascist sympathies, I just understand that you can only push people around for so long before they snap.

>>2049021
Yes, women are literally the worst thing that ever happened in the HIStory of MANkind.

>>2052255
>Raising children is mostly thankless, tedious, unpaying bitch work.
The highs are way higher than the lows. Nobody has ever stopped loving their children unconditionally because of changing diapers.
>The reason women shy from it these days is because it leaves them completely at the financial mercy of their husbands, who are free to blow the family fortune on booze, gambling, or flights of fancy. And they don't want to live in a world where they are expected to sit there and keep quiet if he abuses and/or neglects her and the kids.
I don't necessarily disagree but modern divorce law and child support/alimony somewhat mitigate this.
I wish it weren't true but women trend towards promiscuity (and are more likely to initiate divorce) and there has to be some level control.

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>>2052297
>Nobody has ever stopped loving their children unconditionally because of changing diapers.
And nobody ever got paid for it, either. Sometimes it takes 2, even 3 jobs, especially if you're by yourself

>I don't necessarily disagree but modern divorce law and child support/alimony somewhat mitigate this.
We either deal with the inconveniences of too much freedom or deal with the inconveniences of not having enough.

>I wish it weren't true but women trend towards promiscuity
like men don't?

>more likely to initiate divorce
because their husbands turned out to be a giant piece of shit who mistreats them

>there has to be some level control.
But who watches the watchers?

I think we can all agree that women look different than us, so they are intimidating and a little bit scary, and should probably adjust their behavior to be less scary to us. They were the ones that decided to be weird and different, not us.

That's how it works, right?

>>2052346
Dude, I can't fucking stand the redpill "female promiscuity is a sign of the collapse of our civilization" shit, but you're stretching. To the extent that I wonder if I'm replying to bait.

Divorce, child support and alimony law (at least in the US) DOES unduly favor women, and those are problems that we can and should fix, not the inevitable consequences of "having too much freedom."

It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that most women leave their marriages because their husbands abused them. Domestic abuse is common (perpetuated by slightly more women than men in America, although for obvious reasons women are more likely to be seriously injured or killed) but it's not THAT common. A damn sight less common than divorces.

>>2049021

No.

The invention of the microprocessor and Moore's Law was the first nail in the coffin.

The last nail is when we have Strong AI by 2029.

That's it desu.

No more humans by 2045.

Either everyone will be upgraded or euthanized.

I'm dead serious.

>>2052374
>I don't actually know anything about AI, the post.
We'll be lucky (or unlucky, whatever) to have "strong AI" by 2129.

>>2052346
>And nobody ever got paid for it, either
There is government financial aide for families with children in most countries.
>Sometimes it takes 2, even 3 jobs, especially if you're by yourself
You would not be by yourself in a traditional family unit.

>like men don't?
I'll let you look at the studies for yourself but if you go back to historical data women had far more sexual partners than men, to the point that women passed on their genes 17:1 over men.

>because their husbands turned out to be a giant piece of shit who mistreats them
or maybe not

>But who watches the watchers?
the family is accountable to the father and the father is accountable to the state

>>2049021

You're thinking of suffrage

modern civilization is unprecedented in form and there is no reason to compare it to previous civilizations.

things like vaginas don't matter as much when you take transhumanism into account.

>>2052374
> Moore's Law has no hard limit
You know it works through semiconductors, right? You can only exponentially shrink those so many times.

>>2049035
haha wow a totally unbiased opinion

>>2052365
>Divorce, child support and alimony law (at least in the US) DOES unduly favor women, and those are problems that we can and should fix, not the inevitable consequences of "having too much freedom."
But to suggest that we should go back to a culture of conformity where men and women are universally shamed if they attempt to terminate a marriage is baseless romanticism.

>It's absolutely ridiculous to claim that most women leave their marriages because their husbands abused them.
But it's also ridiculous to claim that most women leave their marriages because they're giant whores who need more big black cock in their lives.

Women are more in touch with their emotions so they are more likely to notice that their marriage is an unhappy one so yes, they are the ones who are going to initiate the divorce

>>2052410
I know what transhumanism is, but the only "trans humans" we have now have a bad habit of killing themselves immediately. Transhumanism is still a bit of a pipe dream.

>>2052424
>But to suggest that we should go back to a culture of conformity where men and women are universally shamed if they attempt to terminate a marriage is baseless romanticism.
Pretty sure I never suggested that.

>But it's also ridiculous to claim that most women leave their marriages because they're giant whores who need more big black cock in their lives.
Quite sure I never said that either. Well, reasonably sure -- I was pretty drunk last Thursday but that wouldn't really be in character for me.

I'm not the person you've been replying to. I'm addressing YOUR fallacies, not defending THEM.

>>2049030
>Once you stop distributing the pussy in an amicable and fair way and stop giving men a reason to give a fuck shit tends to break down yeah.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. WHEN THE FUCK HAS PUSSY EVERR BEEN DISTRIBUTED """""""""""""""'FAIRLY""""""""''''''''''
BWAHAHA LMAOING @UR HISTORICAL ILLITERACY KEKEKEK

>>2052390
>There is government financial aide for families with children in most countries.
not as much as you might think.
>You would not be by yourself in a traditional family unit.
Yup, you'd be marooned in a loveless marriage with someone you can't stand but you couldn't do anything about because the church and everyone you know and love would shun you if you tried.
>I'll let you look at the studies for yourself but if you go back to historical data women had far more sexual partners than men, to the point that women passed on their genes 17:1 over men.
I'll be waiting for the citation
>the family is accountable to the father and the father is accountable to the state
So if the father is tyrannical and makes her unhappy does the wife call the mother's union and force him to negotiate with her union rep? Does she sue him?

>>2052424
> His argument is that our divorce laws are lopsided and need reform, not whatever you're hallucinating.

> Women are more in touch with their emotions so they are more likely to notice that their marriage is an unhappy one so yes, they are the ones who are going to initiate the divorce
Are you actually arguing that women initiate divorce more often because men can't identify when they don't want to be with someone? Could it instead be the aforementioned incentives and lack of accountability than the actual "one sex is just retarded" argument that you're making?

>>2052453
>Pretty sure I never suggested that.
But that's what I was responding too.
>Quite sure I never said that either. Well, reasonably sure -- I was pretty drunk last Thursday but that wouldn't really be in character for me.
Because I was addressing this fiction that civilization is crumbling because women are getting divorces and sleeping with whoever makes them happy.

>I'm addressing YOUR fallacies, not defending THEM.
But we're not talking about the minutiae of divorce court, we're talking about civilization-scale disasters

>>2052426
of course, but it's an inevitability that is going to make the imaginary problems being contemplated in this thread an impossibility.

>>2052473
>Yup, you'd be marooned in a loveless marriage with someone you can't stand but you couldn't do anything about because the church and everyone you know and love would shun you if you tried.
those social pressures exist to discourage divorce over whims and trivialities. If a woman is truly in a bad relationship she can endure some stigma that barely even exists anymore.
>I'll be waiting for the citation
https://psmag.com/8-000-years-ago-17-women-reproduced-for-every-one-man-6d41445ae73d

>>2052473
Even if loveless marriages were such a huge issue as you seem to think, ow does that even matter when the ultimate purpose is to raise children and motivate the men to support the state?

> So if the father is tyrannical and makes her unhappy
Irrelevant, because the alternative is that the men drop out of society and the state's enemies have an easy victory, in which she's raped and/or slaughtered anyhow.

>>2052481
>Are you actually arguing that women initiate divorce more often because men can't identify when they don't want to be with someone?
No, I'm arguing that because women aren't stigmatized from a young age against expressing their emotions they simply get better at it then men do, so when their marriage turns out to be an unhappy one they're the one who's more likely to recognize that fact and react accordingly.

>Could it instead be the aforementioned incentives and lack of accountability than the actual "one sex is just retarded" argument that you're making?
No, my argument is that both sexes have members which are great and members which are complete pieces of shit, and people should be free to decide for themselves who they spend large amounts of time with.

>>2052497
>those social pressures exist to discourage divorce over whims and trivialities.
No, they're mechanisms for social coercion, allowing for a tyranny of the majority to decide who gets to marry who.
>https://psmag.com/8-000-years-ago-17-women-reproduced-for-every-one-man-6d41445ae73d
8,000 years ago things were very different.

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>>2052499
>Even if loveless marriages were such a huge issue as you seem to think, ow does that even matter when the ultimate purpose is to raise children and motivate the men to support the state?
Because unhappy marriages produce unhappy children who grow up to be unhappy adults. Allowing people to divorce mitigates this, benefiting society in the long run.

> because the alternative is that the men drop out of society and the state's enemies have an easy victory, in which she's raped and/or slaughtered anyhow.
No, the alternative is a program of capital redistribution which puts more wealth in the hands of households and makes a "one-parent-works-one-parent-rears" families more feasible financially. People are putting off having children for economic reasons, not because they can't stop sucking giant black cocks

>>2052487
Have you ever carried on a conversation before? I -- this guy >>2052365 that's me, the only other post I made in this thread -- was responding to the specific claims you made in your post, which were ridiculous overreaches. If you quote me, then reply to me, to what *I* said, don't quote me and then reply to somebody else or write a general post addressing the whole thread topic. If you quote me responding to your specific claims about the minutiae of divorce court, then your response should also pertain to the minutiae of divorce court. If you want to back off from that claim then say so, or just don't respond to me at all.

Or, you know, do whatever you want. But then we end up arguing about piddly little who-said-what bullshit and end up wasting both our times.

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>>2052550
>But then we end up arguing about piddly little who-said-what bullshit and end up wasting both our times.
But that's what you get for jumping into the middle of a conversation without examining the context of why I wrote what I wrote

Just because I support the radical (by 4chan's standards) notion that all people, male or female, should be treated as equals under law, doesn't mean that I think the system is perfect or that there isn't room for improvement.

But that's not what the topic of conversation is over. It's over people who think that giving women freedom is literally causing the downfall of western civilization.

>>2052601
The past 30 or so posts in this thread have been about the family unit and divorce almost exclusively. You can argue against sexual liberation and not think it's causing the collapse of civilization just because OP thinks so.

>>2052126
Except that hundreds of years ago the NEETs wouldn't have had to be NEETs.
Most of them would've learned a family trade or become monks if they were into academia; work itself wasn't so alienating.

>>2052126
>>2052626 is right, there would be no NEETS
>be ugly as fuck son of a wheelwright
>quiet, antisocial
>no qt would ever marry you
>learn the trade from your dad
>become the best wheelwright in the village
>make tons of money
>local milkman sets you up with his qt daughter for the money
>she dies in childbirth
>marry another qt half your age

>>2049021
Watch in unfold in real time. The cultural and subsequent political collapse of south korea.
And to think all this time I thought north korea would be the cause..

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>>2052642
you fucking NEETs with your qt3.14 fantasies. It didn't work that way. It worked like this:

>Dad agrees to marry you to the Miller's daughter when you are both toddlers.
>You both marry when you are between 15 and 18. By your 20th birthday you've already had 2 kids.
>You spend the rest of your life with this woman whether she makes you the happiest man on Earth or the most miserable.

>>2052693
> Normalization of pedophilia is their goal
Wow! Who would guess that they follow the teachings of Muhhamed.

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>all the ideology ITT

>>2052693
>DUDE IT WAS A PLAN ALL ALONG

>>2052800
>posts picture of professor that values tradition, religion, and objectivity

>>2052854
There's a big difference between Peterson's notions of tradition and religion and the notions of tradition and religion belonging to reactionary ideologues.

>>2052693
implying there's ANYTHING wrong with that

>>2052800
you are literally never without ideology
the belief that you need to be opposed to ideology wherever you see it is ideology

>>2052914
Not if we understand an ideology as something that focuses only on a narrow band of reality while purporting to explain all of it

>>2052914
lazy

>>2052697
it's still guaranteed pussy

>>2049251
this is the most emotionally charged post in the thread

>>2052883
John Podesta posts on 4chan, wew.

>>2049251
>nuclear family
Enough with this meme faggot.

>>2052989
Who even cares about pussy? You can just buy prostitute if you are so desperate.

>>2049037
>ottomans
It was the main reason of their falo, lad.

>>2049635
nope that's actually more of a good thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Tainter

>>2053017
the ancien regime didn't do nuclear families and it was god-fearing, absolutist, and monarchical

>>2053017
see >>2052047

You're the relativist soulless materialist faggot here who kicks out his own kids and parents because muh individualism. Individualism is cancer.

>>2053017
There is nothing relative here. Nuclear family was just first step of societal degeneration. Like being liquid is first step to vaporization.

>>2051883
wow 500 years ago they did human sacrifices cause muh gods, and needed white people to teach them how to build the pyramids so i dont think they make a good example of an actual civilization

What's wrong with sex being easier to get?

I don't mind it. In the great words of philosopher Mobb Deep, "We don't love them hoes".

>>2053083
According to some hardcore virgins, it wasn't that easy to get now because in the past female were forced into sex, but now they can choose. So the market logic here is why they would choose neet sex when there are better options, so we need to return into sex communism, where females have zero standards or something.

>>2053093
The problem aren't even the whores. The problem are the men who will do everything to get pussy and appeal to a woman on this "free market" of yours, and women take advantage of it and ruin societies. See >>2050597

>>2053104
How exactly society is ruined because men do all kind of inventions and heroic act to impress some females?

>>2053117
>all kind of inventions and heroic act

bravo

>>2053117

All you have to do to get laid is to be virtuous.
It worked for Aristotle.

>>2053117
Things like that aren't done to win female's favor. More like acting like a fucking clown and cucking yourself to the point of absurdity, which includes giving them the vote. Some idiots think that all problems will magically go away as soon as we take voting rights away from them, this is obviously horseshit. Women have to physically stop existing.

>>2053083
>What's wrong with sex being easier to get?
the problem is sex being pursued instead of marriage. celibacy is stigmatized now instead of promiscuity. sex has become a commodity you can get on tinder instead of an act of romance.
>"We don't love them hoes"
your future wife has had 20 sexual partners, she's been fucking since she turned 15, sex means nothing to her

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>>2053140
> celibacy is stigmatized
What? Never heard of such thing.

>>2053134
without women men go apeshit

>>2053140
promiscuity is still stigmatised. people agree with sex in moderation which is the case for everything really except addicts

>>2053158
what is sex in moderation in 2016? 5 sexual partners? 8?

>>2053156
There are no women here and we are fine.

>>2053140
>the problem is sex being pursued instead of marriage. celibacy is stigmatized now instead of promiscuity. sex has become a commodity you can get on tinder instead of an act of romance.
That's not the problem. The problem is that fewer and people can afford to be a one-paycheck family.

And consider what we came from: social coercion, enforced conformity, and people trapped in loveless marriage to someone they actively despise with rampant cheating on both ends.
Freedom may not be pretty, but it's much, much less hypocritical.

>your future wife has had 20 sexual partners, she's been fucking since she turned 15, sex means nothing to her
And now she's a mature woman who knows what she likes and what is expected of her and how to give it to the only man she wants to sleep with for the rest of her life. By the time most people reach middle age they stop giving a fuck about high school bullshit.

>>2053163
having sex with your partner

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>>2053176
>And now she's a mature woman who knows what she likes and what is expected of her and how to give it to the only man she wants to sleep with for the rest of her life
Maybe if your her 5th husband

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>>2053197
> Bad wives forced to change partners more likely!
Who would expect that?!

>>2053197
your chart says nothing about divorce

like no shit women are going to be having sex with non-marital partners if they're not yet married

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>>2053083
Human instinctual sexual urges are subtly broken and non-conductive to advanced civilization - imo more so with women, but men also have problems.

Turns out traditional sexual mores were an unappreciated guard against humanity's own worst tendencies.

Sex being easier to get unlocks women's power to be the gatekeepers to sex, love, and all of their civilization's reproduction. And the problem is it turns out through immigrant behavior they are TERRIBLE stewards of the gate.

They trend towards harems where the "alpha" is often an overly aggressive low impulse not necessarily particularly cerebral individual poorly suited to elite civilization. This is causes many women to become single mothers as they compete for a small cadre of said "alpha" males who do not necessarily commit while leaving large swaths of others outside of the relationship and family unit. Immense social problems. It also results in a slow boil idiocracy.

You can see the above trend results of this in the black american community.

>67% of black children are Children in single-parent families
> In 1970, 64% of adult African Americans were married. This rate was cut in half by 2004, when it was 32%.[64] Conversely, in 2004, 45% of African Americans had never been married compared to only 25% of White Americans.

Notice how it all goes to shit after the sexual revolution in the 60s?

>>2053239
what does this have to do with immigrants?

>>2053009
Surely you have sources to back to the claim of sexual liberation within the Ottoman empire?

>>2053246
That was a really bad typo + auto-correct.

emergent behavior

>>2053156
Other way around. Women are what drives men mad and not in a good way.

>>2049285

>muh blue pill

Fuck off /pol/

>>2053163
One partner, to be replaced an indeterminate number of weeks after a relationship ends.

thats sort of whats admirable about the muslim faith. sometimes your parents or community make sure you get married and stuff. them and indians are into that organized marriage from birth or whatnot too, lot of that is just pretending youre royalty or something and kinda silly. i do find 'forced' male female integration like that endearing though

>>2053176
Bernie, pls

>>2052537
>divorce is the solution to unhappy children

literally lmaoing right now

>>2049035
>So many people triggered by an obvious fact

The declines of most empires were characterized by a reactionary need for ideological fundamentalism

>>2054195
adolf, pls
>>2054863
>literally lmaoing right now
freedom works and laughing as a coping mechanism isn't going to get you laid any faster.

THE WESTERN CIVILIZATION IS COLLAPSING GUYS, THE END IS NEAR

It's because women have rights.

TIME TO BECOME DOOMSDAY PREPPERS AMIRITE

>>2054990
>everything is fine
lmao the bluepilled cuck.

>>2049021
Yeah, the Muslim world is such a paradise.

>>2054999
>implying is not better than cuckyurop.

>>2054994
>everything is bad cuz i cant put my benis in bagina

>>2055014
>europe is not falling into pieces
>europe is not falling apart
>usa is not falling apart
>the demographic winter isn't real
>a declining population with massive inmigration has been a good thing in history
>wow you're a virgin
nice arguments there cunt.

>>2052697
>Chads who get regular sex are so out of touch they think this is a bad thing

>>2055014
What a womanly "argument"

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>>2054139
yeah and women hate this. Girls in countryside india just want to go to the city, find a crappy job to have fun the rest of the night.

>>2055098
>Girls in countryside india just want to go to the city, find a crappy job to have fun the rest of the night.
[citation needed]
don't project your degeneracies onto pure indianfus roasty, being a wife and mother still means something to women in the non degenerate parts of the world

>>2055098
>they just want to get fucked by Indian chad
k

>>2054994
> Everything is bad because this single X
West would collapse, even if you revoke all rights from women. Because core of the problem is that men are pussies who are afraid of competition so they got bothing better than meme about Chad to be better than them. Give them free girls and they would demand free moneys like the parasites and neets they are. This is only the one problem, from hundreds and thousands on top of that.

>>2053239
> alphas aren't smartest and strongest men
how blue pilled are you? strong got the right and can pass the genes. this is natiral cicle. always was.

>>2055145
you seem too retarded to see this is the effect of feminism in a society.

>>2052199

They probably don't want to be falsely accused of being pedophiles.

>>2055179
I don't see little kids playing I want to be a master and teacher.

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>>2049251
makes u think

>>2049021
Yes, that's how you kill Empires.

>>2051770
kek, grow up and face reality virgin.

>>2055098
>men will never understand
>Point Break

Just because it was directed by a girl? It's a movie about male friendship.

>>2055150
Normaly nobody takes care of single mothers because there is no welfare.

So chad children just die away.

>>2055191
Why was Greek stoneart so shit compared to Roman?

>>2055215
there are 500 years development between them.

>>2049251
>all the butthurt (you)s at this post

Ha, hit the nail on the head. Let em die man, you can't convince the foolish.

>>2055165
Feminism was allowed by the weak men as a part of bargain for women help outside of tradition. See the history of how feminism even got into relevancy.

>>2055302
Nuclear family is a joke, anon. If only people of the past were wise enough to understand how it would end...

>>2055302
We really hit the low point of civilization when liberal shit of yesteryear like the nuclear family is considered traditional.

What if we all just masturbated a whole lot?

Would that resolve the issues associated with the relation of gender politics to regular politics?

>>2056713
I'm doing my part.

>>2056713
No, because there's an inherently collaborative and interactive aspect to sex, as well as social aspects such as the acquisition of a sexual partner displaying capability and standing. These aren't satisfied by simple masturbation, and are also why sex robots will never function as a workable substitute.

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Let's shift the conversation to something less divisive, shall we?

The last words to the public by the dead voice actress from the anime that the OP and reaction images are from were a tweet about how much she wants to get married after she recovers.
Her loved ones were able to host a wedding-themed birthday party in the hospital for her a few weeks before, though, so that's good. She was 38.

>>2049451
kek

>thread still up
I hate /his/.
>>2056762
But what about sex machines with VR? Surely people will delude themselves enough to stop shitposting about wimmin?