ITT:Battle that if the winners had lose the whole Western civilization

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Catalaunian_Plains

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The siege of vienna

>>2017581
OP said western civilization though

>>2017611
Soviets were definitely not western. Or human.
And they already had big support in Germany and Great Britain. We don't know how long would it take to overrun other countries just like we don't know it about any other battles in this thread or if it would destroy the civilization at all.

>>2017573
>>2017579

Go back to bed, Creasy.

Battle of lepanto

>>2017573
Tours is overrated as fuck. The Moors had nowhere near the logistical capability or power projection to conquer France and Western Europe.

>>2017579
Another overhyped conflict. The Huns were indeed fearsome, but their mounted archery didn't amount to shit in Gaul. Their army had nowhere near as enough mounts to do the sort of damage they did in eastern Europe.

>>2017581
I actually wish the Polish DID lose to the Soviets because that would scare the shit out of Britain and France. Germany would have to be propped up as Europe's shield against the Bolshivists.

>>2019579
Great propaganda value, but no real lasting effect besides depriving the Ottomans of some good archers, naval crews, etc.

None.

>>2017611
if you aren't being ironic, its as compared to the middle east and east asia

>>2019662
>Tours is overrated as fuck. The Moors had nowhere near the logistical capability or power projection to conquer France and Western Europe.

You know that Islam would just spread from France to the other european countries?

Imagine if Charlemagne was a muslim, oh boy oh boy.

>>2017573
Ain Jalut

>>2019662
>The Moors had nowhere near the logistical capability or power projection to conquer France and Western Europe.

Bullshit. That's exactly how most of Muslim conquests took place.
>small warband raid some juicy infidel lands, often against direct orders by the Caliph
>sometimes they are beaten back, sometimes successful and take loot
>sometimes they are so successful that they manage to took hold of the land, usually by exploiting some local conflict or power vacuum
>they message the Caliph to acknowledge and legitimize their conquest

That's exactly how conquest of Egypt, Africa and Spain happened. Same would happen to Francia if the Moors were victorious.

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>>2017573
>meme skirmish

>>2019662
Would be Soviets actually capable to effectively support communist revolution in Germany?

>>2019759
Well the revolution was international after all. People underestimate how popular it was in the west.

>>2019753
Thing is, the Franks didn't seem themselves as oppressed and had surprising unity following Clovis' death. The Muslims exploited the Visigoth civil war, Jews being persecuted, and the local people being dissatisfied. The Arab conquests of the Near East was because of Byzantine perseuction, the Persians were weakened with internal strife and their wars with Constantinople. North Africa and Central Asia was where the Arab explosion had to stop because their Berber and Turkic foes were hardy.

Even if the Franks had lost at Tours, it's just a battle. In fact, the whole Moorish campaign in southern France was an overglorified raid. They can't hold any of their conquests indefinitely and at best, it'd be treated like Fraxinet; a Muslim foothold in Gaul that's a nuisance, but can eventually be expelled.

The problem with discussing these battles is that people don't like to admit that they owe something to some foreign nation (even though that's not the point at all) so they always go "It's obvious that nothing would happen if they lost."
I don't think we can know that for certain. Just like parts of Europe have been ruined before or their course changed forever we can also say that they've been saved a bunch of times. I'm glad I don't have to know how Europe would look like with a different outcome.

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>>2017573
>Battle of Towton

prove me wrong

>inb4: "it was nothing but a small skirmish