Why do Atheist Socialists always quote and misunderstand this

>>2005506
>passage interpreted by catholic church selling indulgences

>>2005506
How is it misunderstood?

>>2005508
Teehee no you idiot.

The Catholic Church sold indulgences to desperate people who didn't understand the Bible. This passage was present before the Catholic Church even existed.
>Implying every parish in Christendom operated the same way
>Implying the tithe wasn't already a thing

>>2005508
>Well you see,if you give US all your money,you won't be rich anymore,so you can go to heaven!

>>2005512
They like to use it as a condemnation of private property and the rich, which it wasnt. Christ was speaking with a wealthy man who was afraid of not going to heaven. He lived a selfish lifestyle and Christ told him to sell all of his possessions to the poor and live virtuously. The man didn't want to do this because he was afraid of living modestly more than he was afraid of God's judgement.
He wasn't saying "the government should redistribute all your wealth!". He was calling for virtue of character through humility.

Now for some History
The "eye of the needle" was actually the name of a very narrow entrance to Jerusalem in which camels had to fall to their knees to squeeze through. This statement was quite literal as a wealthy man would not humble himself to those levels.

>>2005512

This. I'm curious. I've heard this passage a few times and thought it was straight-forward: it is nigh impossible for rich man to get into heaven.

Is there a second part to this passage that I don't know about?

>>2005557
It sounds like you're the one projecting.

>>2005506
>Why do Atheist pretend to know more about Christianity than Christians?
Because in most cases they do.

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>>2005557
>tfw i learned that bethlehem means house of bread (בַּיִת לֶחֶם)
>tfw the bread of life was born in the house of bread

between that and the needle thing i think its fair to say that jews are a punny lot

>>2005557
>Now for some History
There's actually no historical basis for that claim (which is somewhat recent, earlier apologists focused on possible translation errors), and the academic consensus on the eye of the needle being a gate is that it's wrong.

This is why some atheists say their know more about Christianity than Christians: because a lot of them do. They tend to score higher on tests of religious knowledge. The ability to study something somewhat objectively without needing to rely on what their priest tells them probably has something to do with that. Yeah, lots of them get annoying and can talk about point that are misinformation, but someone belief status has bearing on their ability to understand history.

>>2005624
>religion is objective

The whole point of religion is that it inspires millions of people, all in different ways - it isn't a fucking science that you can grade through tests

>>2005624
>no historical basis

the bible is a historical document

>the academic consensus

in other words (((scribes)))

>>2005557

>falling for the "eye of the needle isn't literal" meme

You're retarded. It's very clear what the passage means if you aren't desperately trying to rationalize it away.

>>2005506
To be fair they sometimes do

>>2005644
>the bible is a historical document
The Bible doesn't say that the eye of the needle was a gate. Someone in the fifteenth century made up the interpretation and people kept repeating it, even though there's no evidence that such a gate existed.

>>2005637
The spiritual aspects of history have little to do with its history, or certain other aspects of it, like lingusitics, that can also be studied in a more objective context (in other words, not under the assumption that you're dealing with the direct word of god and you need to approach it as a believer). Religious studies exists as a valid academic field.

>>2005506
>oh fuck Jesus didn't actually support my opulent lifestyle
>should I donate my wealth and be a good Christian?
>fuck that, I'll just pretend that Jesus meant something else!

Disgusting. Own up to your opulence or surrender it.

>>2005624
>Atheist scholars score higher on religious tests than your average church goer
Yeah no shit.
How about the priests who spend literally their entire life studying the religion that inspires them versus Atheists who study religion purely out of contempt?

Pointing out historical inaccuracies of a religion, originally spread by word of mouth, does not disprove the religion. Religion is about philosophy. Please, name one aspect of Christianity that, if applied, would make your life worse.

>>2005695
You seem to be projecting a lot. I argued for one of the things you think I was talking about. I was just explaining that a nonreligious person can posses knowledge about a religion.

>>2005705
knowledge ≠ understanding

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>>2005695

>Please, name one aspect of Christianity that, if applied, would make your life worse.

Can't tell if trolling or if you really haven't ever read any Nietzsche, but something something slave morality.

>>2005685
No, Jesus meant exactly what he said. My issue is people (usually Atheists) who think this means Jesus was a Bernie Sanders supporter.

>>2005710
>Oh no, it is too hard to give of myself, resist temptation, and seek happiness through virtue alone!
Better let men treat me as a human cum bucket and get addicted to crack while hurting everyone around me because that's true freedom.

>>2005710
You're not a master.
How does "slave morality" make your life worse?

>>2005662
See
>>2005718

>>2005695
>Please, name one aspect of Christianity that, if applied, would make your life worse.
How about the fact that Jesus was a socialist condemning the rich? I'm not a fan of communism, sorry

>>2005738
>>2005740

Just read Nietzsche, his whole point was making a formal write-up of the exact sort of criticism you're curious about.

>I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go.

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>>2005764
>continental ̶s̶o̶p̶h̶i̶s̶t̶r̶y̶ philosophy
>formal

>>2005764
I've read Nietzsche.
Materialism is a philosophical dead-end and a one way trip to the exact nihilism Nietzsche feared

Okay, explain what it really means then, maybe without the mental gymnastics that Christians love to execute when defending their favorite book

>>2005506
>Why do Atheist pretend to know more about Christianity than Christians?

Because they literally do.

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>>2005578
it's like pottery

>>2005718
So you're madder at a handful of college-aged socialists who have a different opinion than you on government policy, and don't care at all about the millions of hypocritical opulent Christians? Nice priorities.

>>2005805
All atheists hold a degree in Christian theology?

>>2005784

>Materialism is a philosophical dead-end

The real world is the only thing that isn't a dead-end. Focus on working with the real world and you get things like that computer you're using right now to communicate with people on the other side of the planet. Focus on working with otherworldly things like hoping real hard and chanting and you get exactly nothing.

>>2005817

What an absurd strawman. How did you even get there?

>>2005816
"Hypocritical" and "opulent" Christians aren't trying to raise my taxes.

>>2005764
It sounds like he got touched by a priest when he was a kid.

Heaven is just as much a state of mind here on Earth as it is otherworldly. His belief would only make happy those who are already affluent enough to be happy regardless of their beliefs. However, in practice, I have seen more pain and suffering caused by this type of thought than anything religion could bring. It creates drug addicts, sexual deviants, corrupt politicians, crony capitalists. It destroys families and turns men into animals the whole time telling them their lifestyle empowers them.

This type of mentality was the exact thing Jesus fought against and what ultimately got him killed.

>>2005756
If you think this makes Jesus a Socialist than you are an idiot. I can explain how Socialism is a scheme to make the Government more rich and powerful, but instead I'll chastise you for sticking modern political theory on a religious figure who lived 2000 years ago.

>>2005825
>Atheists know more about Christianity than Christians do.
Gee I don't know, maybe I got lost somewhere.

>>2005816
Their opulence is between themselves and God. Thats not what we're discussing here.

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>>2005814
;^)

>>2005557
kek

>>2005624

this is actually true. i didnt get into christianity before my friend converted and now i'd say im probably more into it than him.

He's a young earth creationist though. They like to stay ignorant on the surrounding context of the bible and christian history.

>>2005637
>>2005644

you must be the same poster because in both these posts you misunderstand what the guy says.

>>2005846

Atheists do know more about Christianity than Christians do, though.

>>2005870
this must be the famed atheist logic i've been hearing so much about

>>2005557
so basically
the government shouldn't have to redistribute your wealth, you should donate it to the poor (the church) of your own "free will"

>>2005738

>Better let men treat me as a human cum bucket and get addicted to crack while hurting everyone around me because that's true freedom.

>>2005839

>It creates drug addicts, sexual deviants, corrupt politicians, crony capitalists. It destroys families and turns men into animals the whole time telling them their lifestyle empowers them.

Where did this "living in the real world means being a reckless, impulsive hedonist" meme come from? If you actually care about your life as it is on Planet Earth, why would you want to throw it away on recreational stimulants and prostitution? A better use of your time would be working hard, learning useful skills, accumulating a decent income, and learning and implementing novel ideas and technology to make the world a better place for yourself, your children, and your fellow man.

>>2005882

im correct though. the original guy didn't say that religion is objective and when he said no historical basis he wasnt talking about the bible. the reply posts with the greentext both clearly misunderstood so stfu.

>>2005839

>thinks he understands what socialism is.

>>2005506
>>Why do Atheist pretend to know more about Christianity than Christians?

9 times out of 10 they do.

the "smart" Christian well read in history and the church fathers is a rarity

>>2005995
you are not correct because we're not the same person and there is no reason to discount the bible as a historical source

>>2006035
>the bible as a historical source
This hasn't even been brought up yet. The only time anyone has addressed a historical claim that was not made in the bible.

>>2005839
If you think this makes Jesus religious than you are an idiot. I can explain how religion is a scheme to make the ruling class more rich and powerful, but instead I'll chastise you for sticking western religious theory on a jew who lived 2000 years ago.

>>2005880
Atheists are theology majors?

>>2005950
Uhhh yeah its called free will. No entity, whether it be God or Gubmint can force you to be virtuous. That is your job.

>>2005975
Is this not what Christians do? Do you think we all waste all our time praying and torturing ourselves for God? This meme comes from the fact that everyone I know who takes Nietzsche seriously partakes in or at least supports the lifestyles I mentioned. Christian morality helps the world run to everyone's liking.

>>2006052
>religion is a scheme
lol

>>2006061
There are, what percentage of Christians are theology majors? how many are familiar with near eastern history? How many know anything about the religion beyond the bible and what their preacher says ?

>>2006069

>Is this not what Christians do?

There's no reason why Christians can't work hard, learn useful skills, accumulate a decent living, etc. But that would be because they choose to, not because of Christianity. Christianity doesn't teach us to apply the scientific method and extrapolate patterns from the real world to construct helpful new technologies.

>>2006027
You're telling me there are a lot of Atheists in college? You're also telling me that the people that who go to church are more interested in their relationship to God rather than all of the Historical details? If you have never felt the Holy Spirit then you will never understand past what your sociology teacher can tell you.

>>2005557
Sounds like they interpret it correctly and you are rationalizing.

>>2006092
If you dont know the historical details you could not possibly understand the bible.

Do you really want a preacher who cant even read the bible in its orignial language?

>>2006085
>what is sloth
>what is gluttony
These mortal sins are mortal because if you let them take over your life, you will die without ever helping your fellow man and subsequently you will burn in hell and be hated by everyone you know.
Christianity provides guidance to better your life and your relationship to the world around and above you.

>>2006081
Probably about the same number as atheists, since atheist isn't an academic title with certifications attached to it.

>>2006106
That's why priests go to seminary and the parishioners go to Bible study. Sure, Bible study isn't 8 years of higher education, but it's enough to solidify your relationship to God.

>>2006052
lol kekekekek.
You mean people will use any means possible to make money? The Government can also get rich and powerful by telling people there is no God, family values are anti-feminist, and only Democrats can protect you.

>>2006129

Refraining from sloth and gluttony isn't the same as learning about the real world and using information about it to reshape it into a better place for yourself, your family, and your species. At best, Christianity is neutral towards worldly achievements. At worst, it can be interpreted as discouraging some of those worldly pursuits.

can you kneel before the king and say "i'm clean"

>>2006142
Most priests have a masters or a doctorate which I can at least respect.

With protestants it seems all over the board

>>2006170

That's to be expected with what Protestantism is all about (let the people learn for themselves and cut out all the extravagant papal formalities in between them and God).

ITT: christcucks BTFO

>>2006153
I see what you mean.
Well that seems to be a personal choice than anything. Look at a lot of godless adults who can never give a straight answer on anything spiritual and don't know anything about the world.

As far as the working class religious folks you seem to be referring to, they know as much as they need to know to make a living and provide for their families. Sure, scholars look down on these people from their ivory towers, but that doesn't mean their lives are less rewarding than yours.

Sure they can't talk about obscure poets from the 17th century or the the Roman invasion of Iberia, but who are you going to go to when your car breaks down or you need a new roof or Tyrone and Shabooboo decides to rob your house for jenkem money? And who says they wouldn't be interested in the knowledge you have to offer?

>>2005624
>no historical basis for what you say!
>but my bullshit made up statistics is fine

Yeah, nah

>>2006174
Yes, and that has proven to be a massive mistake.

I interpreted it as just because you are rich has zero bearing in entering the Kingdom of Heaven

He is not saying being rich is bad, but being a dick about it is

>>2006268
There is no historical basis for the claim that the eye of the needle was a gate in Jerusalem. At all. A five second google search will yield tons of sources, including ones written by Christians, confirming that. It was a claim made up a few hundred years ago and has no evidence supporting it.

>bullshit made up statistic
This is one of a few studies like this. The results are all pretty consistent.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

>>2005530
the catholic church has existed longer than the bible.
Jesus founded a Church, he didnt write a book.

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>>2005545
This.

>>2005506
Why do you think anyone gives a fuck about your stupid religion when it's claims to legitimacy rest on very dubious propositions? Magic doesn't exist and people don't rise from the dead after being dead for three days.

>>2006391
one way or the other, its all bullshit. the church is not specified at all by jesus, theres no other records of that and the church is corruptible and fallible. its all ultimately bullshit. other churches can also claim catholicity or wtever the fuck u call it. you know at the end of the day you're all going to be biased football supporters that have to support their team.

>>2006391
The catholic claim to legitimacy by way of apostolic succession is absurd and asinine.

>>2006421

i agree. its shit.

>>2006415
>the church is not specified at all by jesus
did you miss the whole peter thing?

>>2006448
do you know what specify means? specific? jesus said one thing to peter and if you interprete the way of building a specific organisation called the church, it isnt specified how. the churches practises aren't automatically justified through the bible. Even mass, the cornerstone of catholic life is justified at best, very ambiguously in the bible.

>>2006273

there is a lot of play or riches, value and wealth in new testament and apocripha, the idea is pretty much that being rich, having lands, houses, servants, slaves, other animals, fine clothes and other material stuff means by default youre not doing it right, you couldnt actualy live that lifestyle and follow christ, you should have given it all away allready, or distributed most of it, or, in more protestant logic, invested the talents

the problem isnt realy moral, its more onthological, being rich and compeeting with others to stay rich means you dont get the fundamentals of reality, youre like a child or a fool playing around with bits of dead dirt when you are being offered the greatest wealth and value imaginable, and you dont actualy understand what you are or what other living things moving around you are either

in that context it dosent even matter if youre a good person or a moral person or a person at all, its that youre not getting it, youre stuck in the world and believe shit has value if its shiny or does things or makes others do things

on the other hand if you understand this, that its fundamentaly all dead shit, that even living things are just moving dirt, that only christ is alive and that he is they way and the light etc... it dosent matter, you can as well be rich, but if youre a christian you will behave and live accordingly

christianity is way more eery and morbid than people give it credit, most christians completely misconcieve the message

>>2006461
so a rich man cannot have true faith in god?

>>2005644
>the bible is a historical document

It's a historical document in that it's a document from history, but the content of it is likely bullshit. Take off your credulity glasses and think about how reliable a document is that describes events that happened 30-100 years before anyone even wrote it down. Anything that's attributed to Jesus is likely 100% pure bullshit.

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>>2006495
you do realize that the vast majority of information we have about antiquity comes from non-contemporaneous sources yes?

>>2006504

yes and scholars usually analyse them for their reliability and the gospels usually come up short.

>>2006504
infact, the gospel has its own historical errors in it which are logically provable.

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>>2006513
scribes gonna scribe

>>2006530

damn they really should do a graphic novel based on the gospels and acts and then make a film like sin city.

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>>2006518
whatever errors may exist i can guarantee you they do not materially compromise the message of the gospels.

>>2006539
that would be awesome but i feel like it would get shut down. remember what happened to mel after the passion?

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>>2006539
These are from Rick Griffin's "Gospel of John" btw.

>>2006530
>>2006554

>>2006554
no they dont but it poses a question to some people depending on how they view the bible's infallibility. specifically literalist, young earthers.

>>2006554
i actually really enjoyed the passion

>>2006479

if he has true faith he dosent show it, hes keeping himself rich, so he values riches

this means he hasnt actualy accepted christ, he dosent get it, his faith is besides the point, its all for nothing

its a kind of morbid absurdism, paul goes into this a lot, but the gospel of thomas presents it in rather clear terms, this material reality is refered to as 'the world', everithing in it is esentialy corruptible, conditioned, contingent, dead, a compilation of corpses animated by unholy forces, thus pursuing riches is a silly necrophiliac endevour, and maintaining the mentality necesary for pursuing riches means one is lost, blinded by pre-program, living in illusion

imagine if it was a kind of bladerunner reality in which the inhabitants take it seriously and actualy make a effort to aquire more dead crap into their possesion or to their artificial personalities name or to adorn and please their soon-past-expiration date biomechanical bodies

this is a point of view typical of early christianity and continued trough catholicism and orthodoxy as well as even more radicaly in bogumil and cathar faiths and recuring in some variation in most heretical and gnostic sects, but strangely absent from most protestant worldviews

>>2006566

are you big influenced by gospel of thomas?

i think this creates an issue in that how do you even know if you have the right faith.

all christian sinners go to heaven too don't they?

>>2006495
The bible is a historical document, but like any historical document is not taken on face value.

Even a novel that describes contemporary lifestyles can be a historical document

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>>2006563
ok but the bible is still a historical document.

>>2006565
yes it was a great film.

>Why do Atheist pretend to know more about Christianity than Christians?

I was asking myself the same question regarding the evolution debate. Christians get the same basic education the atheists too, so we understand what you know about Evolution and why you believe it. On the other hand, if you know little to nothing about Christian beliefs, but assume they do know.

They think "they believe whatever is in an old book, even if it contradicts science." They aren't exposed to the scientific evidence supporting a young Earth belief or the potential holes in a lot of the science that supports evolution.

>>2006596

i really liked the idea behind the last temptation of christ, just the idea of him having his own very human mortal struggle against sin and with his role ( i know alot of people dont like that) but wish a film as well made as the passion could have more aspects like that.

>>2006578

im just saying thats how both early christians and a lot of later christians saw and understood it, theres a deeply esoteric meaning to it, its all about internal experience and relating to ones reality staying true to that internal experience

how do we know heaven is a place people 'go to', implying they get to go there in spirit it they havent been transformed while alive, jesus never mentions this, he talks about the kingdom of heaven and how theres room there for everione, and more or less gives instructions on how to get there, and these instructions can only be applyed while alive and 'there' is obviously not any place 'of this world', so then where or when is it and why do you need to be 'born again' to get there?

maybe only sinners go to heaven, maybe repentance is a major part of the process and one cannot repent if one hasnt sinned, maybe knoving sin is part of coming to know oneself and so the first step out of death

people have spent thousands of years ignoring the deeper mystical notions in christian texts and instead focused of bickering over mundane religious interpretations that make it all sound like a absurd game

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>>2006638
>"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

>>2006648
great movie you have there.

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>>2006627
Your either a very good troll or really misinformed.

>>2006700
i really want to see a textbook that fully goes into comparing the evidence for evolution and creation science.

>>2006716
I would love a good laugh. I've seen Kem Ham's stuff and I lose it almost every time. Its like watching a child pretend he's a doctor

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>>2006727
were you there? were you there? well... were you? are you god?

>>2006756
You have to hand it to him. He knows its not facts, or data that win a debate. its a good presentation that any idiot can understand

>>2006642
so you are christian? what do you believe? you a gnostic?

>>2005557
Sounds more like anarcho-socialism than socialism.

That's not a good thing.

Why would an "Athiest Socialist" care about desert fairy tales? Where are these socialists discussing this OP?

>>2005637
I think what >>2005624 meant was they tested better for biblical understanding and knowledge of the parables, etc.

>>2005826
Why are you paying taxes if you're giving all your money to charity, Mr. Pious?

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>>2005557
>Socialism
>the government should redistribute all your wealth

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>>2005557
>Socialism means gov redistributing wealth
Oh boyyyyy

>>2007070
>>2006888
I'm sorry, you're right. Socialism is the government pulling money out of thin air to give people things for FREE.

Nothing to do with mandatory taxation or anything, you fucking muppets.

>>2007070
State socialism is the only type of socialism that has any viability. There is little reason to engage a pure socialism anymore than there is to engage ideas of pixies running our economy

>>2005710

Also killing of people for wearing mixed thread and usury.

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>>2007090
>Still getting socialism wrong
Why do so many detractors of socialism fail to get the definition correct

>>2007096
Because? Even so state socialism doesn't mean gov redistributing wealth

>>2007101
>Because?

because every other form of socialism doesn't work. State socialism doesn't work very well but it at least can function.

>Even so state socialism doesn't mean gov redistributing wealth

No but the collectivization of property certainly is a form of redistribution

>>2007107
I guess

>No but the collectivization of property certainly is a form of redistribution
But it is not what that anon had in mind, is it?

>>2006092
So this is basically the theological and historical equivalent of "I may not be book smart, but I'm street smart."

>>2005557
>The "eye of the needle" was actually the name of a very narrow entrance to Jerusalem in which camels had to fall to their knees to squeeze through. This statement was quite literal as a wealthy man would not humble himself to those levels.

I'm getting real tired of people saying this like it's proven fact or even makes any sense, for that matter.

>>2006092
>If you have never felt the Holy Spirit

Just 'cause you feel it doesn't mean it's there. A casual stroll through an insane asylum proves that much.

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>>2005557

>socialist
>the state distributes wealth

Fuck wit

>>2007160
At the end of the day does it really matter to anyone other than history pedants and fedora tippers though?

The meaning of the parable is unchanged.

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>>2007107

>socialism doesn't work

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIddCEBCKHQ

>>2007179
Yes, its just a coincidence that every revolution with staying power turned into a despotic regime. and state socialism at best

>>2007166
>everyone owns everything
>Hmmm I wish there was some entity that could act as a mediator between the people and the people so the people who own everything don't ACTUALLY OWN everything.
>Time to get some food from the mediator because we all know that the mediator would never decide to keep it all for himself because the mediator told me so and has guns and I'm too afraid to question the mediator because then he'll kill me for taking from the people who own everything according to the mediator who actually has everything OH NO SORRY FOR THINKING TOO MUCH W...w...where are you taking me?

Literally shut the fuck.

>>2007166

Relevant quotes from the source of your cherry picked definition

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

> Although there are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]

Socialist economic systems can be divided into both non-market and market forms.[16]

> By the 1920s, social democracy and communism became the two dominant political tendencies within the international socialist movement.[37] Socialism proceeded to emerge as the most influential secular political-economic worldview of the twentieth century,[38] and while the emergence of the Soviet Union as the world's first nominally socialist state led to socialism's widespread association with the Soviet economic model, many economists and intellectuals have argued that in practice the model functioned as a form of state capitalism,[39][40][41]

>Role of the state

Socialists have taken different perspectives on the state and the role it should play in revolutionary struggles, in constructing socialism, and within an established socialist economy.


>Preceding the Bolshevik-led revolution in Russia, many socialists including reformists, orthodox Marxist currents such as council communism, anarchists and libertarian socialists criticised the idea of using the state to conduct central planning and own the means of production as a way to establish socialism. Following the victory of Leninism in Russia, the idea of "state socialism" spread rapidly throughout the socialist movement, and eventually "state socialism" came to be identified with the Soviet economic model.[294]

So essentially your full of crap

>>2005557
What is morally wrong about the government cutting out the middle man and forcing people to redistribute their wealth to the ones that need it the most?

Why would you believe in God though? It's a children's tale, made to get people hope. Ohhh, god made us in his image. Well, what a fucking uncreative painter he was then. Why do we have to shit? Isn't there a better solution? Why don't we have wings, I want fucking wings. It's like, you made God up, so why believe in him? Because someone in 300 ad were like, look at this story, let's glorify the fuck out of this shit. And it's very funny how you happen to be born into the right religion right? Had you been born in Syria, you would've prayed to allah every fucking day, never considering to believe in Jesus or read the Bible. I guess you consider yourself to be the ones that are right, like every other religious person on the planet. It's basically like believing in Santa Claus.

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>>2006642

this guy gets it. there is nowhere to go (beside here, which most of have not arrived at yet). there is no supernatural realm above or beyond the now. but that, precisely, IS the miracle:

>Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

there is no next life according to jesus himself. there is no karmic comeuppance in the hereafter. the advent of this pernicious and illusory ideology was a manufacture of those early followers of yeshua who could not accept that his movement was an immediate failure.

they had to invent a system which won him victory beyond death because they DID NOT understand the majesty of his words, deeds, his LIFE, in all their radical and immediate simplicity; the last supper was not a trajedy! it was a celebration and testament to the life he chose to live, not the sad preminition it comes down to us as.

sadly most people will never have this revelation, mainly because it is so simple. the eye of the needle has already been passed: one merely needs to realise it!

>>2007376
Literally everything you posted doesn't go against the post you are replying to

>>2007376
>social democracy
Not socialism

>nominally socialist
Nominally socialism

I don't even think you know what the fuck you're trying to say, nor do you understand the concept of workers controlling the means of production.

>>2007179
All of these states either became tyrannies or they were snuffed out before they ever really got started.

This is not proof that socialism works.

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>""""Real"""" Socialism thread

>>2007565
>>2007578
I understand it perfectly. But that isn't the point.

The quotes make clear that socialist thought through changed over the years and there were a breath of theories within the larger movement on how things should be accomplished, making your definition in isolation, pedantic and somewhat misleading

>>2005563
The next part is:

>25 When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
>26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

The meaning isn't different but Jesus does make sure to say there's a way out

>>2005557
If you don't believe in the bible you should just stop calling yourself a christian m80

>>2008978

Yeah, I think you're right that the meaning isn't really different with that second part added. In my opinion anyway the people who interpret the camel through eye of a needle bit in the straightforward way of "here's how absurdly difficult it would be for you to get it right while rich" are getting it and the people who try to rationalize it as a reference to a gate with a funny name are just trying to get out of accepting it for what it is. Same thing as the "turn the other cheek" rationalization people try to pull where they claim it's actually supposed to mean "force the aggressor to treat you as an equal." In all these cases there's a clear bit of wisdom as it is and people who don't want to accept it find convoluted and largely baseless "historical" stories to try to make the inconvenient truth go away. If you start with the assumption Jesus really was God as a man, it's kind of dopey to think he'd explain things in terms of obscure time and location specific references that are misleading out of context instead of choosing simple and powerful direct messages that communicate the same idea today as they did thousands of years ago.

>>2006815
what difference does it make

it just suprises me that the interpretations of christian teachings that quite accurately correlate with what is observable reality within and without us as beings is so thoroughly ignored while made up stuff about supernatural systems and hierarchies and souls going here and there predominates

how does any of us even know we have a soul? how can we even know? how can any of us realy claim we are alive? what does that mean? that our heart pumps and our lungs breathe and our brains fire off neurons? material process occuring in conditioned patterns, does that mean we are alive?

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>>2005557
>it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God
>this wasn't a condemnation of the rich

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>>2005695
>Please, name one aspect of Christianity that, if applied, would make your life worse.
Giving away all my possessions to the poor.

>>2005557
>a very narrow entrance
>which a camel had to fall to their knees to squeeze through
>narrow
>fall to their knees
>squeeze through
Or maybe they had to, I don't know, relieve the camel of any worldly possessions it carried

>>2007098
Real fuckn tired of this meme

>>2005695
HOW ABOUT GIVING UP ON TRYING TO MAKE THE WORLD BETTER 'CUS ITS ALL ABOUT HEAVEN?

HOW ABOUT TELLING MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS TO FUCK OFF BEFORE GIVING ALL MY SHIT TO PEOPLE I DON'T KNOW?

>>2005506

cause if they understood it then their whole narrative would crumble

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>the only people allowed to have an opinion on my religion are those who believe in it

K

>>2005748
Implying that's not even more retarded. Just kill yourself.