Why is it called the religion of peace if it has mainly

>>1997471
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_of_peace

It's an attempt by the "left/western" leaning muslims to delegitimize "right wing/fundie" Muslims.

any human civiization with the means will spread their empire through war inevitably. this is how many religions and cultures have grown. muslims conquered people, and subsequently the populations become muslim. it's no different in many other cases around the world. humans breed war at an almost constant rate.

>>1997526
Humans are pretty shit. Why don't we make a Holocaust, but for all people?

>>1997527
Great idea

start with yourself

>>1997532
Rude desu

>>1997471
Literally an ironic name
Only anti-islam people call it that

>>1997471
99% of the time people call it "the religion of peace" they are doing it ironically, a few times people called it "a religion of peace" (not the) in an attempt to distance themselves from violent muslims who "aren't true muslims(TM)" but nobody does that anymore because "religion of peace" is a meme now

>>1997471

"Islam" has the same root as the Arabic word for "peace" (salaam), but its meaning is closer to "submission" or "slavery".

because when the whole world is conquered and Muslim it will be peaceful this is literally what religion of peace means

>>1997471
What is India?

The largest islamic populated country in the says otherwise

>>1997559
/thread

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>>1997527
>>1997532

>>1997471
It was mainly spread by traders and missionaries though. That's not debatable.

>>1998732
Holy fucking kek, kys retard.

>>1997471
>hating on Islam
>>>/pol/

Remember this.
Arab in greek is aravas.
Rabbi in greek is ravino.
So what did the arabs do to greek culture? How did they invade it?

>>1997471
Nobody really says Islam is the most peaceful religion. That's a /pol/ meme.

>>1997471
Why is Christianity called religion of peace if it has mainly spread through war?

Most of those early "conquests" had people submitting to the Muslims without a fight because they were tired of getting shit on by their Roman overlords for deviating from Orthodoxy.

>>1997471

>Why is it called the religion of peace if it has mainly been spread through war?

taqiyya

>>1999386
For one, I have never heard anyone calling Christianity a religion of peace. Second, it spread by royal houses adopting Christianity one b yone and, subsequently, to its inhabitants. With the notable exception of the Franks who were not shy ofagressive Christening.

>>1997526
Name three religions that have spread by way of waging war comparable to Islam.

>>1997471
It is just propaganda that is utilized to support a hidden agenda.
WAR = PEACE
>>1997899
FREEDOM = SLAVERY
>>1998633
IGNORANCE = STRENGTH

>>1999090

>hating on islam
>>>/e/arth

pretty hard not to be when all the arabs were fighting each other even before muhammad had his '''visit''' from gabriel or w/e plus saying it spread because of war while true kind of misses the point, it's hardly the reason for the wars - to ignore the lust for power, trade and whatever else and to only focus on religion is naive

the religion of peace stuff is nonsense though, it's an abrahamic religion, there are plenty of verses for peace and others for violence, muhammad did some violent things but plenty of good things in context of the time and place

need to remove fundamentalists from every walk of life and we'll be alright

>>1997899

it is etymologically close to submission, surrender and peace not slavery and the meaning is mainly seen to be a mix of submission and surrender - again, not slavery, the main root is al-silm which means submission or surrender

>>1997471
You're not doing your claim any favour by equating the arabian empire's expansion with the expansion of islam.
One followed as a result of the other and is by itself not responsible for the geopolitical conquest of much of the 'known world'.

>>1999430
Not him but I'll give it a try.

The greek pantheon
Christianity
Whatever the hell the Assur- cult/religion the Assyrians adhered to.

>>1999500
You do realize why the Rashidun Caliphate was formed?

>>1999430
>Christainity a good boy it dindu nuffin

Yea no it was spread by the sword same as every other religion.

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Why is it called Pax Romana if it has mainly been spread through war?

>>1999533

>every religion is spread by the sword

kys

*tips fedora*

>>1999533
Top kek it wasn't spread in the same as Islam at all, at least not initially. Literally every area that is predominantly Islamic was conquered by Muslim invaders and then the locals were persecuted/made dhimmi.

Christianity only spread through the sword once it became political, which marks the major difference between the two. Islam is always political.

>>1999386
It isn't.

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Why is it called the Holy Roman Empire if it is neither holy nor Roman nor an Empire?

>>1999715
>Literally every area that is predominantly Islamic was conquered by Muslim invaders

Tell me about Islamic conquest of Java.

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>>1997471
>(pic related): the post
also, "religion of Peace" isn't like an official thing, just something that a few Western Muslims used to shill before it overwhelmingly got used by anti-Islamic arguments and fedoras way more than any Muslims ever said it

>>1999761
Indonesia is admittedly different. I concede I should have written most.

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>>1999715
>Christianity only spread through the sword once it became political
>once it became political
Is that supposed to mean something?

Also, What are Saxons, Lithuanians, Prussians, Yugrans, Lettgalians, Frisians, etc...
protip: they weren't "peacefully"made christian

>>1999787
Yeah it is. Christianity isn't also a political system. Islam is.

>bringing up people that were converted after Christianity became involved in the politics of the empire

Wow, got me

>>1997471
>First hundred years of Christendom: prosecuted and spread as a reaction towards Roman imperialism, especially among slaves
>First hundred years of Islam: forcefully spread by conquest
:3

>>1999817
b-but conquering land is separate from spreading Islam!!

>>1999823
If the crusades were for retaking lands the muslims stole then what happened at the fourth crusade?

Is there anything more cringy then europeans bitching about others conquering and warring?

>>1999835
lmao the crusades were retarded, especially after the third one.

alexios is the only reason they had any legitimacy whatsoever

>>1999803
Then you have all of the native Americans, Africans, and others who were persecuted.

If you mean to tell me that Christianity was peaceful for only the first 200 years of its life cycle then I'm not interested.

>>1999871
>missing the point

>hahahah look at these niggers they couldn't conquer anything so weak
>WTF FUCKING MUDSLIMES WHY DID THEY CONQUER THINGS HOW DARE THEY

t. /pol/

>>1999533
Early Christianity spread through the exact opposite means.

Martyrdom was a serious thing when Rome liked to fuck with Christians, and they proudly died for Jesus to emulate his own death as sacrifice for the world

It took a very long time before Christianity became a political player with armies and economic power

>>1999871
Your violent piece of shit religion was founded upon the conquest of Mecca

Fuck off

>>1999920
Only autistic LARPers care that Muslims conquered shit.

The discussion is about how people try to claim violence isn't inherent in Islam when it was the backbone of Islamic expansion.

>>2000136

Martyrdom was only important to other Christian. The average Roman saw plenty of death in the arenas

>>2000214
Gib constantinople back sandnigger.

>>2000230
Gib canstontinopoolus

>>1999510
I am surprised you have come with the greek panteon. They lack any universal ambitions and is not militaristic at all. The Greeks themselves after conquering new territory were happy to leave local religions intact or bring in syncretic deities. With Christianity you are plain wrong. But on Assur I can appreciate your point. They indeed had some religious doctrine commanding to conquer new regions agressively. That leaves us with only one religion, one that is not relevant for centuries, comparable to Islam.

>>1999655
It was originally called Pax Augustae for Augustus brought peace and prosperity after a century of internal turmoil and infighting.
>>1999857
What is your point? That Euros were the most succesfull at territorial conquest and war? Why should it only be expected of the West to be pacifist adn peaceloving hippies?
>>1999533
Why are you even on /his/?

>>2000224
It was also important to the poor and down trodden who had nothing to live for. They thought the Roman gods didn't care for them so they converted to the one God who promised them eternal life after they died

>>2000214
>The discussion is about how people try to claim violence isn't inherent in Islam when it was the backbone of Islamic expansion.

I don't get this meme. Are you implying that violence didn't exist before islam? Were the Romans muslim? Were the ancient persians muslim?

>>1997471
Christianity did the same.

>>1997471
Because doublespeak

Because, after everyone has been submitted to Islam, there will be peace.

>>1997516
>implying fundamentalists have legitimacy

>>2000553
>Greeks left local gods alone

Book of Maccabee

>>2000553
>It was originally called Pax Augustae for Augustus brought peace and prosperity after a century of internal turmoil and infighting.

>Empire expands through centuries of war, reaching limits of tenable expansion, so pauses to consolidate its subjects
>Pax

Is it possible for Islamic apologists to defend their religion without resorting to whataboutism?

>>2001331
People who use the term "religion of peace" are pretty much always strongly anti-islam

Example: your post

>>2001556
How do they resort to whataboutism?

>>2000553
>What is your point? That Euros were the most succesfull at territorial conquest and war? Why should it only be expected of the West to be pacifist adn peaceloving hippies?

>>1997471
>Islam was historically spread through war
>>1999857
>That's hypocritical coming from a european
>>2000553
>Get good scrub
So are you ceding the point here with graceful subtlety?

>>2001547
Well Augustus intended for that peace to last and fight only defensive wars, but every Emperor after him had to show they had a big dick by conquering some piece of land even if it was worthless like Britain.

>>2001556
>Framing context as diversion

>>2001653
>Augustus at some point claimed that rome would no longer expand
Source?

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>christianity and islam started in the same place
>but only one is the majority there

>>2001564
By claiming Christianity has done similar things.

>>2001714
But it's clearly relevent.

>>2001724
Its not as Islam started violent opposed to christianity.
The means of spreading in the first 300 years were radically different.

>>2001755
But christianity was spread just as violently a millenium later during the european colonialism and the age of empires, which was when it did the bulk of its expansion.

Also, the roman state expanded just as violently half a millenium earlier in its first century as the arab state did.

>>2001782
>but then it expanded violently many centurys after its initial founder died, it had splintered into sects and europa was not governed theocratically anymore

Dude at least bring up the crusades or some shit, this is getting pathethic.

>>1999090
Leftypol please, Islam is against everything you claim to defend

>>2001790
>The majority of christian expansion occured during the age of exploration / empires
>The majority of islamic expansion occured in the first centuries of its empire

It's very convenient that you only want to look at the first 100 years of each religion, and ignore the rest. Obviously a religion is going to spread more peacefully inside a single state than once it has reached the states borders and its expansion is synonymous with the state's expansion.

>>2001695

>but only one is the majority there

yeah judaism.

>>2001847
>Obviously a religion is going to spread more peacefully inside a single state than once it has reached the states borders and its expansion is synonymous with the state's expansion.
>single state
How about you read up on the spreading of Christianity before you return to this thread. It spread even in its earliest years outside of a single state.

>>2000681
Jesus Christ you fucking idiot, you keep directing the discussion of Islam to something or ignore it entirely.

Pre-Islam, Arabia was a bunch of warring tribes.
Islam united all of Arabia.
The Middle East was under the occupation of the Byzantine
Muslims defeated the occupation and the people of the Middle East welcomed them because their rule was much better than Byzantines' rule

>islam spread by the sword

a recycled statement by folks who are satisfied to learn history through word of mouth

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>>2002143
And those wonderful peace-loving christians sure were tolerant towards pagans and other religions in the Roman Empire circa 3rd and 4th Centuries.
Do you know why the Colosseum is in such shit condition? Christcuck fanatics stripped it of its marble to build churches. When you act like your brand of schizophrenia is better than the other you come off as a fucking retard.

There's a reason there's still Yazidis, Bahais, Maronites, Druze, Zoroastrians etc. in the Middle East while there are ZERO pagansor older european religions (aside from autistic celt LARPers) because while Islam is fine with taxing minorities to death, Christianity thrives on their wholesale genocide.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_pagans_in_the_late_Roman_Empire#Anti-pagan_actions_by_ordinary_Christians

Its funny to call others intolerant when your ancestors finished the job a long time ago

>>2002278
>ignoring the time frame we're talking about and spouting the same information over and over a million times

Thanks Ahmed, we understand Christians were violent after they gained political power.

>>2002187
>implying the spread of Islam has nothing to do with Muslims conquering giant swaths of land and then eradicating or taxing the shit out of other religious groups

>>2002278
>genocide
i wouldn't call forced conversions, destruction of temples, the banning of sacrifices and possession of idols genocide. there were few wholesale slaughters, and pagans certainly weren't an ethnic group, a key part of it being a "genocide"

>>2002310
It really depended on the time frame but that's pretty much a universal rule

>>2002292
>eradicating other religious groups
You mean how Muslims protected Christians and Jews and treated them much better than other global powers?

>taxing the "shit out of" people
Both Muslims and Non-Muslims are taxed by the government. One is called Zakat and the other Jizya.

Refer to the Syrians and how they much preferred the Muslims over the Byzantines.

>>2002292
Taxes were less under Muslim rule than either Byzantine or Persians.

No one wanted to eradicate such a lucrative source of revenue either. Especially not the early Arabs who were elitist as all fuck and wanted Islam to remain only for Arabs. If you want to talk about the expansions of borders you can bring up violence to your heart's content, but the actual religion was spread because a mix of social and political factors. Including tax benefits, representation in government, social standing, etc. In certain cases violence was indeed used, but violence wasn't the main way the religion spread.

>>1999767
This. I live in a muslim Country and I only heard about "religion of peace" on 4chan.

>>1999715
>Christianity only spread through the sword once it became political
Christianity stayed political for a long part of its existence and was being used as a casus belli by european nations for everything.
It's only in the 19 century that it left the political scene.

>>1997471
It literally means "submission", how does anybody with google translate even believe this propaganda?

Another meme is that Crusades were a product of Christian aggression

>>2002509
That's because you don't have to deceive anybody, the Muslims already took over.

>>1999386
Beat me to it

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>>1999386
>>2002572
>false equivalency
Doesn't address OP

>>2002490
this mutes them haters

>>2002533
>implying they weren't
The 4th Crusade was the final byproduct of Christian """""""""defence""""""""""" against the brutal Muslim hordes kek

Only for Iran it was through war. The rest were mostly through Jewish and Monophysite collaborators

>>2002521
Okay, everyone already knows this and you keep ignoring the actual discussion about the violent/political nature that existed in Islam from the start.

>>2002412
Kek, pagans weren't treated the same as people of the book

I will however admit that my statement on taxes was too exaggerated.

>>2002490
I wasn't talking about people of the book being eradicated, though Muhammad did massacre Jews once during the Medinan period, though I don't remember the circumstances.

>>2004127
Also afghanistan and india.
And some parts of central asia such as khotan.
And egypt.
Also southspain.

>>1999747

Are you quoting Voltaire?

>>2004153
B-but conquering land and then making other religions second class citizens doesn't help spread the faith at all!

While conquering that land doesn't assure a majority of people will convert, over time it does make it far more likely.

People for some reason just can't admit that the spread of Islam is tied directly to making war until SEA

>>2004153
Southern Spain was through Jewish collaborators as well.

We came down on them like a flood!
We went out among their cities!
We tore down the idol-temples,
We shat on the Buddha's head!

butifel and profound poetry.

>>1997471
Mass conversion in numerous conquered areas during the early conquests (the ones in your map) weren't that common. In many areas, Islam was a minority religion practiced by the ruling elite.

Saying it spread through war isn't completely wrong, after all it was conquest that allowed citizens living under it's empires to come into contact with it, but it's still misleading as it implies that: 1. The conquests were purely driven by spreading the religion (there were other factors) and 2. That it was violent conversions that dominated it during the early period (there were some violent conversions, but plenty of normal ones too).

>>1999083
Do you want to explain how Muslim conquerers violently made the entire country of Indonesia the highest population of muslims in the world? Or how rampaging hordes of desert warriors violently converted the Swahilis and West Africa to Islam?

Or do you want to admit that the reason there are hundreds of millions of Muslims in Subsaharan Africa and Southeast Asia is mainly because of peaceful Muslim trade and missionary work

>>2001695
retard

>>1999715
>Literally every area that is predominantly Islamic was conquered by Muslim invaders and then the locals were persecuted/made dhimmi.

What about the Mali, Ghana, Songhai, Kanem, Wolof, the Hausa, and also the Swahili people and their areas?

>>2004386
>What about the Mali, Ghana, Songhai, Kanem, Wolof, the Hausa, and also the Swahili people and their areas?
kek stop making places up

>>1999655
Because it refers to peace within the empire.

>>1997526
>and subsequently the populations become muslim.

Even then in all the years of Islam the numbers of other religions as minorities were far greater than any that could be proclaimed for the other two Abrahamic faiths which is quite interesting from a sociological POV especially considering how it is considered to have 'warrior cult' elements to it.

>>1997471

You tell me, never read that outside 4chan.

>>1999430
>Name three religions that have spread by way of waging war comparable to Islam.

Virtually all religions have been carried afield via some conquerors waging war. Some conquered peoples exposed to the new religion/culture would convert. By extending an empire you also open trade routes. Merchants and faith emissaries of various faiths would also proselytise along trade routes OPENED BY WAR.

It doesn't matter that one religion has been more intricately linked with empire building and thus spread of religious tenets.

>>1999715
>Islam is always political.

Except it very much wasn't in the early years to be pedantic.

>>2000136
>Martyrdom was a serious thing when Rome liked to fuck with Christians

So too it was in Makkah during the nascent Islamic beginnings.

>>1999817
>forcefully spread by conquest

A great deal of lands under Byzantium rule welcomed the Islamic invasions. They hated Byzantium rule.

>>2002166

The only idiot here is you who can't see the double standards that you try to apply to Islam as an entity to vilify.

>>1997471
As someone who read the Quran it itself is hilariously devided upon it

While al-Baqarah has many claims to have no compulsion to religion it also routinely claims those who do not follow allah are to be turned away and are enemies of god and peoples.

Like >>1997516 said it has been used to maintain this idea of a peaceful way of life however it has also been used by eayilat al-Wahab and eayilat al-Saud to promote the exact opposite thinking

Like all Abrahamic texts it can be and wil be interpreted both ways and both ways can be correct, it depends on the school of thinking and unforunately the original group as well as the most prolific group where not peaceful in the slightest

>>2004469
The first book of the Quran is literally legislative and political reforms

>>2004412
>stop making places up

Fuck you mean nigguh Mali and Ghana are actual countries

>>2004333
SEA is an exception, nearly everything else was conquered.

>>2004386
West Africa is also an exception

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>>1997471
>mainly been spread through war
I don't remember a caliphate ever invading Indonesia, where the largest Muslim population in the world resides.

>>2004498
No, you either don't understand my point or you don't know what it is in the first place.

You incessantly talk about Christianity while completely ignoring the parameters of my point. Everyone here already knows Christianity turned to shit as it gained political power. Saying that over and over again is meaningless to what I'm saying and is as repetitive as the
>Islam is le evil religion for barbarian pedophiles
meme

>>2004921
>nearly everything else was conquered
Complete horseshit. If anything the main vehicle of Islam's spread has been merchants/trade and missionary work.

>120 replies

/his/ never fucking learns, does it?

>>2004945
I don't think you've read the thread

>>2004934
>he genuinely believes the kind of Islam that was spread to Indonesia through trade was the kind of Islam spread to the rest of the world
It was watered down Islam, heavily influenced by Buddhism/ Hinduism, just like how Christianity in Europe got influenced by paganism

>>1999655
I think it's because it refers to a period of relative peace, not a religion.

>>2005222
Syncretism isn't only specific to Indonesia. Alot of the traditions of the Indian Subcontinent and even the Middle East were somewhat blended with the religion.