Was Yugoslavia a mistake? How did Serbia claim that clay

>>1935090
by not losing WW1?

>>1935090
>Was Yugoslavia a mistake?
That's subjective.

>How did Serbia claim that clay from Austria Hungary?
Austria-Hungary ceased to exist and the unrecognised State of Slovenes, Croats and serbs joined with the Kingdom of Serbia and the Kingdom of Montenegro into the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes under the rule of House Karađorđević.

>>1935090
Croat here. On the deathbed of Austria-Hungary, south Slavs wanted to unite. For that reason, some Croats and Slovenes entered negotiations with the Kingdom of Serbia about unification (declaration of Corfu, for example). When A-H [collapse]d, Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia declared independence as the temporary State of Croats and Slovenes. It was meant to last only until it unifies with the Kingdom of Serbia. That had to wait until the terms of unification were determined. Croats and Slovened wanted a federation of three nations, while the Serbian government (led by Nikola Pašić and the idea of Great Serbia) wanted it unitary and Serb-dominated. But there was no time to decide - the State of Croats and Slovenes didn't have armed forced or an administration, civic unrest was widespread, Hungary tried occupying north Slavonia and Italy occupied parts of Dalmatia. So they unified with the Kingdom of Serbia without deciding the terms (many politicians were furious over this, and there were demonstrations and rebellions), saying that they would be decided later. Big mistake. There wasn't even a constitution for the following two years (the Serbian regent (the king was incapable) ruled as he saw fit), the territories were treated as if they were annexed. After the constitution, it became a Serb-dominated unitary state with near-absolute royal authority (not a federation, as was hoped). Later there was an attempt to push a "Yugoslavian" national identity (after the Democratic Party of Yugoslavia won the parliamentary election), going so far as to ban all other national symbols. But that failed.

>>1935090
It wouldn't have been if it weren't for those meddling Serbs.

>>1935090
of course it was a mistake. You can't put 6 countries that all hate each other into one country and expect things to work out. Also it was socialist... Now when has socialism ever not been a mistake

>>1936722
OP is about the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, not the SFRY. Also, the nationalities didn't hate each other. They desired unification (see the declaration of Corfu etc.).

>>1936750

Macedonia didnt want it, its population was pro-Bulgarian, and Montenegro was divided on the issue, Croatia and Slovenia needed unification so they wouldnt get rekt by their neighbors

>>1935200
thanks for this post

>>1935090
So, Serbia could have either gone with the territories promised to it in the London agreement in 1915. All of Bosnia, parts of Croatia that were ethnically Serbian, parts of Vojvodina.
Or it could have embraced the South Slav project. To be the unifying force of all 3 south Slavs (bar Bulgaria), Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. To be the "Piedmont of the Yugoslavs".
This is what historically became the ambition of the regent and heir apparent of Serbia, which in the end cost him his life and lead to the genocide of Serbs by the Croats during WW2.

As Austria was falling apart the south Slavic representatives formed a political coalition to push for a tripart monarchy, but as the possibility of A-H capitulation was becoming clearer they met up with the Serbian government to discuss unification.

They signed an agreement that the Kingdom of Serbia and State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs would join together on equal terms. And the other details would be discussed at a national assembly.

So here it goes.
Austria-Hungary loses control. The State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs declares itself and claims all the south Slav land.
However, they are a completely unrecognized state and have no outside support. But soon it became apparent that parts of it's territory were still controlled by Austria and by Hungary.
Italy was going in to get the land it was promised in 1915.
The Kingdom of Serbia ignored the prior agreement, because it was legally null and void because the State of SCS was not recognized, and therefor not a subject in international law.
The assembly of Srem that was supposedly under the control of the State SCS voted to join Serbia.
A day later the rest of Vojvodina voted to join Serbia.
A day later Montenegro voted to join Serbia and had a civil war because some people wanted the king of Montenegro to lead the new country.

Cont.

>>1936958
With Austria, Hungary and Italy preying on the fledgling state, and parts of their territory declaring unification with Serbia, the State decided to rush for unification under the terms of the Serbian regent.
There were many different ideas as to how the new country should be organized with various federal, confederal, bicameral designs, but in the end it became a centralized state with only a house of representatives (and not any kind of upper house for regions).

That's the end of that, now about all the ebin ancient hatred memes people keep spouting without knowing the true root of the conflict.

Quickly it became apparent that the Croats were not going to have any say in the government. It was just numerically impossible, and they were avoided by all government coalitions (except for the last one).
The Serbian politicians made a deal with the Slovene politicians and the Muslim elites. Slovene politicians always held high positions in the government and were appointed as ambassadors to countries of vital importance, and Muslim elites (landowners) were granted a free pass in agricultural reforms and allowed to practice sharia.

Needless to say Croats were not happy about this.
Furthermore, the former regent, now king, sought to form a single nation. A Yugoslav nation, not petty Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. To make a common identity.
Needless to say, both Croats, as well as Serbs were not happy about this, there were many riots in Belgrade especially when it came to religion.

During a heated debate between some Serbian and Croatian politicians over taxes in parliament the following happened:
-"You Serbs, always talk about the price you paid to create Yugoslavia."
-"The price we paid is worth more than gold, we paid in our blood!" *pulls out pistol and kills him*

The king used this incident for his own agenda, declared "emergency powers" and completely ditched the 3 nationalities approach in favor of One Yugoslavia, One people, One king.
cont.

>>1936962
Cont.
In the end he was killed by a group of Croats (Ustase) and VMRO that were funded by Italy, in Marseilles along with the French minister of foreign affairs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R3dVZdFxxo
After this the new Serbian governments relaxed his policy and culminated in eventually giving Croats what they wanted, a province with the authority of a federal state (autonomy, veto powers in matters concerning it, and foreign policy). But it was too late.

The next bit is a story of it's own, but in a nutshell. Yugoslavia joins axis, Brits stage a coup with the aid of the anti German sentiment of the Serbs, Yugoslavia gets rekt, Hitler is angry at Serbs and allows the Croats to genocide them.

After the war, the communist approach was different. Unity through brotherhood, and power balancing. Creating Bosniak (term was only adopted in the 90s, they were classified as ethnically Muslims) and Montenegrin national identities to balance out power between Serbia and Croatia.
Creating Macedonians in case Tito-Dimitrov agreement wasn't stopped by Stalin, in order to be another balancing act to keep Bulgarians from getting more power in a greater Yugoslavia.

I'm not gonna talk about late communist Yugoslavia, the constitution of 1974, lead up to the war in the 90s, that's all been covered in every Yugo war thread.

>>1936958
>>1936962
>>1936963
There, i just wasted a bunch of my time, and i'll probably get butthurt replies from both Serbs and Croats who both act like dindus.

>>1936984
You're fine.
t. Croat

>>1936984
good posts senpai

>>1936962
were the muslims slavs? Like, slav muslims? Or were they turks or something else?

>>1937166
Yes. Well, there was some mixing with turks, but they were, and still are, mostly slavs of Serbian origin.

File: netherlands self-reported.png (119KB, 1676x921px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 1676x921px

>>1937166
They were Slavs, before they became Muslims they were either Croats or Serbs that lived together in the medieval state of Bosnia. Croats lived more to the west and south, Serbs to the north and east.
However, whereas most Serbs converted to Orthodox Christianity due to Byzantine influence, and Croats to Catholicism due to Franks, Venice and Hungary (Note, there was a big possibility for Serbs to become Catholics between 1077 and 1220).
Bosnia was not very religious. They didn't have as much pressure. So when Bulgaria exiled some heretics to Serbia (Rascia,Duklja), and Serbia exiled them to Bosnia.
The heretics spread their faith. Bogomilism, a dualistic fate similar in some teachings to gnositicism and protestantism.
The preaching against material things appealed to the people of Bosnia.
Hungary tried to purge the heretics, but it didn't work because they had no buildings, they could just meet wherever, whenever.
This attitude towards religion made it easy for them to accept islam when the Ottomans came, to pay less in taxes.
They culturally take more from the Turks than any other Balkan country.
As for genetics, Yugoslav peoples are a mixture of Slavs and the native population of the Balkans. People with genes from the Dinaric Alps are tall, dark (and handsome kek) and were considered back when German racial studies were a popular pseudo science a race of their won.
People from the Dinaric alps are on average the highest people in the world.

Which begs the question why aren't Albanians as tall if they actually are natives as they claim. Might be the mixing with Slavs, might be Albanians being small mountain tribes lost to history before 1043.

Also, i'd argue that Dubrovnik has a more distinct culture and right to be a country than Bosnia and Montenegro.
Respublica Ragusina had a statehood more distinct from Serbs and Croats than Bosnia and Montenegro.

>>1937866

Hello, the XIX century called, they want their pseudohistory back. Franjo Rački is getting pretty mad also.

Bogomilism is a meme, the medieval "heretics" called themselves Krstjani (Christians). The papal legate who was in Bosnia in 1203. actually teached the Bosnian heretics how to pray and what to do to actually be Christians. The most likely case with the Bosnian heretics is that they were uneducated, too far away from Church centers, and that they kinda did their own thing with Christianity that came from what is now known as Roman Catholicism. Ban Kulin the uberheretic built two catholic churches... Vukan, the Hungarians and others who were memeing about heretics in Bosnia were only looking for ways to expand their influence into Bosnia. Also, the whole no property thing has been discarded since there are lands that are accredited to the Bosanska Crkva or Krstjani in the Turkish defters (and it is very clear since they make a clear distinction between Catholic, Orthodox and Krstjan). The dualism meme isn't even worth mentioning...

>>1937183
Categorically false, the Turks have rarely intermarried with subjugated people, even with those of Muslim faith.

>>1935090
Would've never happened if the Austrians didn't agree on the 1867 Compromise and undermined Austro-Slavism.

>>1937948
This. Fuck Franz Josef so much.

>>1937948
Glad you're back. I can't do this alone.

>>1937977
Been spending time with the Pillar men in the gym, now my oiled abs quiver at the sight of history.

>>1937948
>Categorically false, the Turks have rarely intermarried with subjugated people, even with those of Muslim faith.
that's complete bullshit, plenty of bosniaks have obvious Turkish Surnames with a "-vic" appended, all major old wealthy muslim families in Sarajevo heavily interbred with Turks as well

>>1938023

Solely the result of the adoption of Islam.

>all major old wealthy Muslim families in Sarajevo heavily interbred with Turks as well

They certainly haven't, considering that Sarajevo was always a hotbed of rebellious thoughts and anti-Ottoman sentiments.

>>1936750
Before the corfu decaration you had the kingdom of SHS and the serbiam government insisted on it being named as Homogenous Serbia, nationalism existed but it wasnt as prevalent.
These seeds of hatred bloomed in the uneven disposition of power between the nations during yugoslavia. Bosniaks were the only "new" nationality