Who was right? I'm going with Hobbes, though I don't

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Neither.

>>1911021
Hobbes was right about literally everything. He may be the favorite philosopher of /his/.

Hobbes clearly makes stonger arguments and is the superior philosophy but Loke has made more of an influence on Western/Anglo political thinking and practice

both I feel

people owe it to their government for the security they bring
but the government owes it to its people for its existence

>>1911029
>Spinoza

I literally came here to post Spinoza. He's basically the perfect synthesis of Hobbesian pessimism and Liberal optimism.

>>1911029
>>1911328
Summarise me Spinoza please.

>>1911419
Spinoza believed that all rational human beings seek first and foremost to secure their material necessities (safety, food, shelter, etc.) and then to extend their freedom as far as they can, and then when joined into groups, the group effectively becomes a person that will seek to do much the same. So conflict is a natural outcome when two groups are either seeking to secure material necessities from the other, or when they're trying to extend their freedom into the domains of others. But he believed that it was possible with careful thought and deliberation to come to potential outcomes that were ultimately more beneficial for both parties, (diplomacy, trade, etc.) and to rise above the "natural" responses to things.

>>1911436
Thank you.

>>1911436
Wtf I love Spinoza now