What are some historical examples of cultures with 'third

The Hijras of South Asia (India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh)

They still exist as a third gender today and Pakistan even legally recognizes 3 genders on its passports, ID cards, documentation, etc.

>heh Thai lady bois always existed heh can't you see gender was always a social construct and everyone was gender fluid before 1950s america

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None. Gender is a social construct.

>>1905057
Pacific islands e.g. Fiji have the Fafafine. I believe some indigenous north american groups had 4 genders.

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>>1905057
most retards in amazonia and africa, SEA have these third gender.
There is nothing new with the westerners.

>>1905084
why are British tabloids always so outrageous?

top kek

>>1905057
What is the definition of gender I mean in the broad sense.

>>1905072
Explain mental and physical differences between males and females.

>>1905103

Sex and gender are observably different things.

>>1905103
>women
smart
emotional
vagina and uterus etc.

>men
stupid
violent
penis and testes etc.

>>1905107
they're synonyms. gender roles are a social construct, not gender.

There's one culture in south east asia which has five different genders.
>men
>women
>men who act as women
>women who act as men
>Neutral non-gendered shamans

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if gender is a social construct why do they need to chop their penis off and take hormones to successfully transition?

>>1905130

>they're synonyms

No, not really. Gender is very much the display of ones sex given social and cultural conditions and perceptions around what is acceptable.

Sex, however, is biological.

>>1905140

Because people who do that are not called "transgender" they're called "transsexual".

>>1905140
Most don't actually.

>>1905155
So it's just dudes that dress up in skirts and wear makeup?

They used to be called transvestites.

>>1905150
no, they're used interchangeably

>>1905164

By the ignorant, yes.

>>1905161

I think those are typically dudes who dress up like women but for fun and usually not permanently

>>1905140
Some have argued that that's a result of western attitudes of gender being binary. Generally, people from cultures with 3 or more genders don't feel a need to transition, because they feel comfortable inhabiting a role that is, to some extent, in between. Westerners don't get that, and are told they have to be one or the other, so in order to feel definitely like a member of the gender they most identify with, surgery becomes an option.

In other words, a western male who feels like a woman doesn't have the option of going "well, guess I'm a hijra, that's cool," they're faced with "well, I guess I'm a woman, that means I can't have a penis, time for surgery."

>>1905161
I thought those were drag queens

>>1905175
But sex reassignment surgery is very popular in Iran and Thailand too

>>1905200
>very popular in Iran
Because their fucked up regressive government forces gay men to become women.

Some Native American tribes believed in four genders.

>>1905213
They just hang gay dudes from what I understand and just treat male to female trannies as any other medical problem.

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>>1905088
>UK has shitloads of Colonies.
>Only Uganda learns how to make British-style tabloids.

>>1905057
India/Hindus famously have the Hijra.

Since Hindu culture has influenced Southeast Asia, this explain the existence of ladyboys in the area.

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>>1905238
>SHAFTED:

>>1905147
There is no diffrence between gender and sex in mentally healthy people

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>>1905310
>He fell for the "mental health is objective and universal" meme

>>1905317
>he fell for the "cutting off your dick and calling yourself a little girl" is healthy meme

>>1905317
Stop listening to the French and you will be better off.
But seriously every one who does is fucked in the head.

>>1905310
t. cuck

>>1905323
What is healthy?

>>1905317
>he doesn't believe established medical science

>>1905325
How does that response make sense in this context?

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>you will never be a cute lesbian little girl

How do I deal with this, bros?

>>1905326
Self mutilation is never healthy.

>>1905323
it's no different from other cosmetic surgery and not all trans people do it anyway

also why is it when people attack trans or gays it's always mtf trans ("cutting off your dick") or male homosexuals ("anal sex is bad")? makes you thing

>>1905338
Me on the left

>>1905328
Science can be wrong

>>1905339
Y tho

>>1905340
>no different from other cosmetic surgery
Show me other cosmetic surgeries with such massive post op suicide rates.

I'll wait.

>>1905340
Gender dysphoria is really no different than schizophrenia. Only that with one we attempt to treat, the other we foolishly validate and attempt to comply to their insane demands.

But hey Pakistan does it so it must be right. Why not also mimick other parts of Paki culture while at it?

>>1905346
Have you ever stopped to think that external and systematic contribute to the individual trans persons suicide? Of course you haven't you're an autistic liberal.

>>1905340
You area damn fool if you try to equate a nose job or face lift to reassignment surgery.
The core of this silly tranny shit is the they have a twisted view of the world. People hate crazy and trannies are crazy

>>1905344
Are you seriously asking why self mutilation is harmful?

>>1905337
Only a cuck would be so conformist.

>>1905352
If it's performed in a safe medical environment why shouldnt people have the right to modify their body. Shouldnt people be entitled to bodily autonomy?

>>1905355
Okay buddy

>>1905349
>Have you ever stopped to think that external and systematic contribute to the individual trans persons suicide?
Nah. They're just horribly mentally ill people who get taken advantage of by unethical surgeons and once it finally hits home what they actually did and how they're left with an open wound they have to dilate for the rest of their lives they off themselves.

Sad times we're living in really.

>>1905359
>traps
>not reverse traps

Top pleb, anon.

>>1905349
>muh systematic oppression
I love when whenever liberals have to deflect statistics away, they resort to "systematic" SOMETHING. Just because you use the word systematic doesn't mean you're magically right.

Suicide rates of trannies are abnormally high no matter what culture they live in. And why wouldn't someone who mutilated their body causing irreversible damage fibally snap? The blood is on liberal hand. You are not on the right side of history as you so often claim.

>>1905347
>Gender dysphoria is really no different than schizophrenia.

source?

>>1905357
I'm not your buddy, pal.

>>1905356
Oh no I never said that you could not do it.
Go for it.
You are a sick fuck who is being enabled by retards.
Oh yeah and fuck you pronouns. You are what you were born.

The Zapotecs have the Muxe in their society. I know Aztecs often considered their priests a kind of gender of their own. Maya rulers sometimes dressed as goddesses and took on feminine qualities to use their fertility powers.

>>1905364
http://geocities.com/mypersonalblog/index.htm

Why is this thread on /his/? Fuck off tranny shit.

>>1905350
do you think trans people don't get nose jobs or face lifts etc? the only difference is that (except for extreme cases) cosmetic surgery is normalised

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>>1905057
>"what are some historical examples of..."
>even though you know that this thread is going to devolve into shitflinging about it's modern day equivalent because that was your intention all along

I love this meme. It's so easy to talk about anything on this board.

>>1905365
I am not your pal, guy

>>1905373
Listen asshole. Getting your dick scooped an turned inside out to pretend you are a woman is not the same as recapturing youth.

Get over yourself fool.

>>1905377
Is it really, though?

>>1905367
what if you are born intersex

>>1905382
yeah but like i said already not all trans people get that surgery. and not all cosmetic surgery is to recapture youth. you're not saying anything that isn't wrong

>>1905373
The difference is that cosmetic surgery actually works. You got a smaller nose? Well fine. You mutilated your dick and made a hole in it? You're still a man. You didn't become a woman because you cut your dick off. Every cell in your body still has XY chromosomes. You're just a man with a mutilated dick. You will never become female. The XY will follow you to your death.

Gender mutilation surgery grossly simplifies what it means being man/ woman so that some insane deranged tranny can have his way.

>>1905359
>no hips
>small tits
>has a penis
>cant make kids

There's really no point in them in living other than to get fucked.

>>1905385
So...
They are such a tiny part of the population. They are irrelevant to the discussion.
We are talking about complete normal Men and women who are trying to be something they simply are not.
Ditch the smoke screen bitch.

>>1905393
>cant make kids
are you dumb?

>>1905391
who cares about chromosomes lol what a nonsense argument

>>1905394
they're not irrelevant to the idea that people are 'what they were born'. they're only irrelevant because they fuck your argument right up

>>1905390
Many do and those are who I am taking about
What's wrong at its core is pretending to be something that one is not and expecting everyone else to play along or accept you

Emailing mental illness is wrong.

>>1905395
Not him but I'm fairly sure estrogen treatments cause infertility

>>1905397
>who cares about chromosomes
Your cells do. Who then define who you are, including gender. You seem grossly uneducated in biology.

>>1905401
They are irrelevant because those people have known chromosome defects such as XXY, you uneducated piece of trash Americunt.

>>1905395
Estrogen causes the testicles to become infertile - they tell you to freeze sperm before the surgery.

As for female to 'male' trannies, I believe their eggs still work, but they stop producing new ones IIRC, so don't take my word on this one.

>>1905401
They really don't.
I have never actually heard of intersex people getting surgery to change themselves.
Only physically normal people.

Besides you arent one of them. They are also such a miniscule part of the population that we could never really get a consensus on what they do.
This os just a smokescreen.

Well for starters there's pretty boi asspussy homolust wtf I need traps now

>>1905409
And those people are infertile and look like a fucked up manlady - but I guess that's a-ok! and we should promote and glorify these people anyways.

p.s. I'm not the anon you're arguing with

>>1905409
Fuck off back to /int/
There is no need to play that faggy game

>>1905402
>Many do

who? how many? why are they representative of the trans community and in fact form the entire basis of your argument even though you don't know numbers?

>>1905420
Fuck off back to /lgbt/.

>>1905347
I have schizophrenia. Please don't compare us to those fucking freaks.

>>1905407
do you want to stick to your argument?

>>1905409
and? what's your point?

Tranny ITT got BTFO. Now he will run back to his safe space whining about oppressive patriarchy.

>>1905424
I am the guy you supported.
This just isn't the time or place for that bullshit.

P.s. you are the dumb one an /lgbt/ wouldn't use the word faggy

>>1905412
it used to be the case that doctors would do the surgery when they were born and probably still is the case in a few places

anyway the number is, even with a conservative estimate, 1 in 2000 people

What's the point of being transgender. If you're unhappy with the way society gives you an identity, why adopt one that society has an even more negative view of. You'll never be able to be something you physically aren't so why try? Just be a feminine man vs being a trans man or whatever.

>>1905428
I'm saying them being intersex has a basis in their biology, their chromosome structure. Those are known genetic mutations. Klinefelt's for instance has an XXY structure to their gender chromosomes.

Yiu are lumping genetically normal people (atleast in terms of sex chromosomes) with people suffering from known chromosome mutations. Do you understand the difference? One is a biological reality, the other is a mental illness.

>>1905423
The second half of my last post covers this one.
Reread it.

>>1905441
mental illness is a biological reality lol

but they are who they are born as

>>1905438
Like everything else in human history, feels before reals

>>1905436
Still irrelevant. They have a genetic malady.
This is not the scope of the argument and you know it.

>>1905442
how is it wrong?

>>1905344
>science can be wrong
And I could be a living, breathing double dragon dildo. I could be a brain in a vat. Go with the solution that is substantiated with evidence.

>>1905448
>>1905444

>>1905057
There's a third grammatical gender in many languages

>>1905444
You were comparing people with known massive chromosome mutations to perfectly normal people. When are you going to admit you were wrong? You don't treat anorexia through a liposuction. You don't treat paranoia by giving it legitimacy. Now why the fuck should trannies be treated differently?

>ITT: People make shit up about transsexuals in order to justify their hate for people trying to enjoy their own lives.

>>1905450
What's wrong about enableing mental illness?
What wrong about imposing your perception of reality on others?
I don't know, you tell me.

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>>1905444
Checked.

>>1905459
>perfectly normal people.

transgender folk confirmed for perfectly normal

their 'illness' doesn't interfere with their daily lives or bring harm to themselves or others

>>1905455
We should fix it teach them to be comfortable in their own bodies. Its what we do for every other mental illness.

>>1905427
>HAHA I responded to him so I win if he doesn't reply since I put him in a position he is obligated to respond to. The best part is that if he does respond I lose nothing of value!

>>1905461
>What wrong about imposing your perception of reality on others?

what are you talking about lol 'imposing' as if a) asking to be respected is an imposition and b) telling transgender people they're mentally ill isn't an imposition on your behalf

>>1905468
so presenting as a woman is fine

>>1905467
They are normal in terms of sex chromosomes. You were the idiot comparing them to people with known genetic mutations hoping to easily win this argument by preying on the uninformed.

Now go ahead and justify why we should give liposuctions to anorexia girls. Don't you want them to be happy? Are you anorephobic?

>>1905470
cells aren't telling people they're wrong. i'm wondering what his argument is

>>1905471
Thats not what is being asked.
This is a form of control.
I dont consider you a woman and thus will not treat you as one.
The fact that you insist otherwise and will level me as something negative is an imposition.

>>1905460
Nope - they commit suicide at ridiculous rates and they demand we accept their mental illness (which the doctor who founded said illness classified it as a mental illness himself). I dislike how they are treated - they shouldn't be treated as healthy and normal. They should be treated like anyother sickness and be giving help. Also, the only trannies I hate our the owns who force the idea that it is healthy and normal.

>>1905481
Read the thread and find out you fucking retard.

>>1905479
>their 'illness' doesn't interfere with their daily lives or bring harm to themselves or others

>>1905483
>don't impose on me, that's wrong, except for when i impose on you

got it. you're free to leave

>>1905475
Thats still enabling
No, you are not a woman.
It may as well be blackface.

>>1905489
Your estrogen pills are messing with your mind. What are you even saying?

>>1905487
i have read the thread. there's a lot unsaid

weird how people get really upset at this topic

>It's a 4chan can't into basic human decency or understand the reciprocal nature of common respect episode.

It's amazing that you never get tired of this subject.

>>1905490
Thats not at all what's going on you silly twat.
I am not accepting your claim.

>>1905491
that's just like your opinion man

>>1905492
do you wanna take five minutes break and come back when you've calmed down a little?

>>1905495
No one should respect deluded people

>>1905498
it clearly is

>>1905495
>it's a we should give the schizophrenic who sleeps in the dumpster across the street all the respect becoming of a king and obey his commands because it's real in his mind episode

>>1905499
I figured that would get you capitulate

>>1905495
Ok I am Superman now.

Don't you dare say I'm not. I identify as a Kryptonian. I hope you are a decent person and validate me by calling me by my correct race.

>>1905504
How so?

>>1905495
Letting sick people cut their dicks off is an affront to common decency friendo.

>>1905506
no you're just not really saying anything

>>1905510
>muh cut off dicks

>>1905511
Whatever dude. Bow out gracefully

>>1905509
you're imposing your perception of reality on people whose perceptions differ from yours

tell me what's more harmful:
>i feel like i am a woman so i am going to present as one and hope i can be accepted in this way as i go about my daily life
>people born men who feel like women are mentally ill and they all cut their dicks off and demand i call them something they're not even though i don't actually know what they are i'm just making a guess

>>1905516
i will gladly enable your delusions for you

>>1905505
>it's a sheltered autist considers letting people make their own life choices some sort of outrageous demand as a totally pathetic attempt at a justification for his bigotry episode

>>1905507
well, you're just doing it to be a sniveling contrarian shithead, but sure why not? its just one extra syllable than what i call you now, faggot.

>>1905510
>bitching at sick people for seeking treatment is just me being decent to them

Grow up.

>>1905533
Wow talk about being transphobic. If you can't respect me being Kryptonian, why should I respect you being a little cute girl?

>>1905502
>>1905505
>>1905507
And the fact you leap to ridiculous strawman arguments (except the first guy, he's just a dickhead in the ordinary sense) are an example of why you're not well-liked by your peers. Sit down, think a little harder about your thoughts, and try to exercise some empathy. Maybe you'll be happier for it.

>>1905519
Wrong the fact the you are xy and have a penis are not in dispute. Any claim you make otherwise is false.
Some things are not affected by perception the fact that you are male is one of them.
See
>>1905507

Enableing the mental illness is more harmful.
The way you evem described it was poisoning the well. So I really should not have answered. I felt like humor8ng you though.

You dont hope to be accepted you demand it. You apply negative labels to those who don't.
You are disgusting because you play innocent.
Yours is the imposition the delusion you want us all to accept.

>>1905523
Never stop sucking.

>>1905528
>heh why don't we just allow the mentally ill to just eat their own shit it's like uh their choice man who are we to say heh :^)
Feel sorry that your mentally illness will be taken advantage of by whatever surgeon you convince to lop your dick off bro, society has failed to protect you horribly.

>>1905540
Tell me why I should accept delusions?

None of those arguments are strawmen anyway.
Just because you say it does not make it true.
Gender dysphoria is related to schizophrenia.

>>1905540
You have zero empathy for my illness. Species is a social construction. If you can't accept me being Kryptonian, I won't bother talking to shitbag transphobes like you any longer.

>>1905541
>Some things are not affected by perception the fact that you are male is one of them.

false, that's just how it is buddy. you can be a woman and have a dick. these are the biological facts of life, and the sooner you accept this the better. there is no connection between maleness and having a dick. you'd be tripping over your own shoelaces trying to prove otherwise because it's a delusion.

>Enableing the mental illness is more harmful.

mental illness? there is no mental illness being discussed

>you demand it.

you've been making shit up about the trans community all thread my boy

>>1905543
>muh cut off dicks

>>1905551
do you think being female is fictional or something like a kryptonian lmfao get out more, they're real

>>1905560
I identify as a Kryptonian. It's how I feel inside. Do you know what it is being woman for you to claim you are a woman? Exactly. The same applies to me.

Also it would seem you are a nigger. Is this true or do you just identify as one by writing like one?

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>>1905495
>can't into basic human decency

This is not what this is about though. This is about leftists being so infatuated with their God, Equality, that they have to invent categories of oppression just to feel validated in their beliefs.

90% of the people who post on this board are people who live in the West, so in order to square the cognitive dissonance of believing that their life is shit, and society by all objective measures being good, they have to invent their own oppression.

I don't have a problem with "basic human decency". I don't have a problem with the existence of transgender or transsexual people.

But the idea that my subjective reality, indeed, any reality, has to conform to the gender identities of individual people is totalitarian.

>>1905564
you should identify as a disingenuous little shit with a whole array of equally unimpressive, fallacious arguments

>>1905556
Listen, fool you litterally deny your physical reality for a mental one.
There is no bigger imposition OR delusion than that

See that's where you are wrong I am not tripping over anything you are just so deep in the rabbit you cant even see that you are twisted.
99.5 percent of people Identify as the sex they were born regardless of sexual orientation
There are very distinct connections between biological sex and 'gender' hell is almost 100 you people are the mentally ill outliers
Transgenderism is a mental illness.

I am not making anything up about you people.
What do you think transphobia is and 'use my pronouns' faggotry is about?
It's an attempt to control language.

>>1905578
check your privilege

>>1905568
do you call people by their full names too you sperg?

>>1905057

The whole idea behind "Gender" "Identity" is completely a 20th century invention which is perpetuated by the USA into the political elites of the whole civilized world.

There is no such thing, as a "homosexual" anywhere in Europe prior to the 20th century.

>>1905578
You're still oppressing. I was hoping someone who identifies as a sex he has no experience beinf as would sympathize with someone who identifies him as a species he has no experience being as. Why should your delusions be justified but not mine?

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>>1905585
>m-muh sperg

>>1905582
>Listen, fool you litterally deny your physical reality for a mental one.

i hate to break it to you but if you think i identify as transgender or have even hinted at being transgender myself then you are the delusional one. you will take any excuse to force your narratives on others regardless of the evidence presented, and under no circumstance can i bring myself to believe anything you have to say on any matter as you are completely untrustworthy and cannot engage in a prolonged discussion to any adequate degree without resorting to falsehoods. you have no business wasting my time any further

>>1905590
>no experience

question mark

>>1905589
That is complete bullshit.
This gender shit is a European specifically French concept

>>1905595
>ignores the argument part in order to say 'not an argument'

i gotta take notes

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>>1905238
>gay priest is here now

>>1905600

No. It was a concept of some bald faggot who just made up shit thanks to the trivialization of truth and knowledge by post-modernism. The french know better and don't have this cancerous shit like 'gender studies" in universities
The anglos tho? They eat this shit up like it's honey. If it wasn't for the USA, that fucking idiot would have died and nobody today would have to bother with all this "gender" "identity" bullshit.

>>1905610
is this a joke

>>1905451

>Implying evidence and facts can't be manipulated to suit an agenda

Science can be wrong because it's subject to politics and the prevailing zeitgeist. It's been used time and time and again to push agendas from both the left and the right.

>>1905618

Are you a subhuman faggot

>>1905610
America is where intellectualism goes to die.

>>1905597
It doesn't matter.
Yiu are being used as an avatar to express opinions and illuminate facts. You could be a yam and I would use the same language.

You are so cloaked in ideology the pointing out reality is forcing a narritive,how sad.

I have no once lied , the 99.5 number is from a survey of self identifying trannies. Google should have the info. You couldn't have possible thought there were a lot of trannies did you?

You provided no evidence just assertions, it's like arguing with a religious person. The things you call evidence.
You just came out on the short end of this one buddy. Your cause is not the best.

>>1905610
You fucking fool he was French

>>1905621
i fucked your dad in the ass hahahahaha

Modern transgenders want to be identified as either female or male. Hijras of South Asia (and middle east) are actually a third gender. They dress like women but view themselves as third.

>>1905624
>cloaked in ideology

no i just have the intellectual capacity to argue along some line regardless of whether i believe it or not. the fact that you think i am the 'them' i am talking about however only demonstrates how you are cloaked in ideology though. you literally cannot conceive of a situation in which an argument is not an 'us vs them' scenario. that's frightening, and a far worse delusion than transgenderism could ever be

> pointing out reality is forcing a narritive

the 'reality' you tried to 'point out' is calling me transgender when i can assure you that is not a reality at all.

and i am arguing on the same lines you are. you say one thing, without evidence, i say another, without evidence. you set the precedent here; my point is showing you how weak your argumentation is and how little you actually use logic. if you find fault with my argument i can guarantee you can apply it to your own argument, and that is where you should start

>>1905628

I swear to fucking god the day will come when all of you cretinoid illogical, brainwashed degenerates will all be rounded up and fucking shot up in a revolution that will reverse the old older of the epistemic truth seeking process.
I pity humans like you, because you have been brainwashed by capitalism into thinking you can commodify anything, and that anything you want from society can happen just from the virtue of you acting like a spoiled entitled infant.

That's the core problem of your ilk. Who the fuck reaches the age of 20 and older, and then suddenly it becomes a crisis of your own fucking gender? You are fucking infants, mentally. But reasoning with an infant will result in nothing but shouting and tears with no result. We need to kill you for your own good. Maybe next time you reincarnate you'll be born as sane individuals.

>>1905645
you're dad is gay hahahahah

>>1905636
Like I said it does not matter if you are a them. I engage as though you are. It helps get me in the mindset. You dont fucking listen.


Stop being hung up on that it does not matter.
So what the sex gender divide only happens in a very small subset of people is false now?

Your argument is false from its foundations because you accept certain post modern ideologies. When did I stray from logic? You can't just say I did and not provide examples.

>>1905658
>I engage as though you are. It helps get me in the mindset. You dont fucking listen.
> the fact that you think i am the 'them' i am talking about however only demonstrates how you are cloaked in ideology though.

>So what the sex gender divide only happens in a very small subset of people is false now?
what?

>Your argument is false from its foundations because you accept certain post modern ideologies.
what?

>>1905658
>Your argument is false from its foundations because you accept certain post modern ideologies.
>no i just have the intellectual capacity to argue along some line regardless of whether i believe it or not

and you think i don't listen

it would be worthwhile having this argument if you could actually keep up but this doesn't seem to be the case

>>1905645
wow that's a lot of totally impotent butthurt, why not try drowning them in your tears? you've certainly got enough.

Wew, this thread has ended off horrificaly. Equating male with man and shit, the first fucking step into getting the gender disphoria thing wrong.

You know how there are a lot of gay self hating republicans. Same can probably be said for trans issues.

>>1905071
>if i add enough hehs maybe it will invalidate legit crosscultural evidence

>>1905140
Actual surgery is rare. HRT is more about fitting in with the cultural role they desire

>>1905719
You don't listen. You are an avatar. You are clearly presenting yourself as a believer in this ideology. Whether you do or not does not matter. Your actions and method are of one that does so that is how I engage.

>>1905743
I'm so glad there's no different words for "sex" and "gender", only one for both, and no different words for "male" and "man", only one for both, in my language
You are literally arguing semantics, appropriating different meanings to words that have always been synonimous

>>1905451
>>>/sci/
Fuck off postitivist

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>It's another /pol/tards who still can't understand the difference between concepts as simple as sex and gender shit up another thread with their spooks episode

>>1905743
Male and man are not different if you are mentally healthy.
No one misunderstand this

>>1905869
The concepts are not inherently different.
The oy become diffrent when one has a mental illness.

>>1905869
>gender is a social construct now take these female hormones to be your true gender™

>>1905854
the semantics here are people thinking that "woman" means the same as the one that describes biological function as used by scientists. that's literally all that everyone is buttblasted about: a fucking equivocational fallacy

this site needs to be destroyed before the fucking idiots that frequent it end up driving culture and consequently the entire human race into the dirt

>>1905918
>it's the people opposed to the mentally ill cutting their dicks off driving culture into the dirt, not us!

>>1905921
>muh cut off dicks

you have one more chance

>>1905925
He is being crass but he is correct.
Only the mentally ill think there is a difference.

>>1905927
only the mentally ill think there isn't a difference

good argument man, let's do it again sometime

>>1905929
You are an idiot.
What people who do not have gender dysphoria think they were born in the wrong body?

>>1905925
I don't get it. Do trannies not cut their dicks off?

I don't think cutting functional parts of your body off means you're mentally healthy...

>>1905921

>driving culture into the dirt

Oh god, here we go...

>>1905936
Not all do but they do render themselves infertile with hormones

>>1905934
literally anyone who thinks they would better suit themselves and would be more successful if they were more attractive

>>1905936
some do, some don't. you'd be wrong to assume that all do, or all even want to, or the ones who do can even afford the surgery since so many transgender are in poverty

>I don't think

good for you buddy, but you also thought that transitioning meant cutting off your dick which was also wrong. and for some reason you think all transgender are mtf. i wouldn't put too much stock into what you think in regards to transgender issues and i struggle to think of how you convinced yourself you were right to begin with

>>1905941
Taking female hormones that render you infertile so you could better fit the stereotype of the gender you want to be (which is a social construct) is a sign of a healthy mind?

Nothing about trannies makes sense. Nothing.

>>1905956

4 u

>>1905953
Are you really going to equate a legitimate mental disorder with a bit of nip tuck?
You are a disingenuous cunt.

>>1905956
It's a mental illness whose best treatment is HRT.

Or do you have a better proposal?

>>1905958
4 anyone really.
Its suck the way we enable this particular mental illness.

>>1905963
Antipsychotics. The same thing we dish out to schizophrenics who think they're the King of Sweden.

>>1905964

Well that's great, champion! 10/10 blog post!

Why don't you go call up your local talk back radio about it?

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ITT: Pure Judaism

>>1905970

>he he le ebil jew meme

>>1905970
first doctor to actually complete sex reassignment surgery was a Jew
Every
Fucking
Time

Here's a few clues for pol-fags

1. Our brains are wired to do pattern recognition based on what we see, smell etc. not on what's inside a cell nucleus - sex != gender

There is NO pol-fag that would find a passing FTM more attractive than a passing MTF - they'd be lying to themselves if that were the case.

2. HRT is the best therapy for the condition. It respects the patient's wishes, it saves doctor's time.

I am a med student I would almost instantly hand out HRT if a guy wanted it and I had the power to do so, because it's their choice and imo much better than antidepressiva or other types of medication with severe side effects.
And most importantly I can focus my efforts on people with real illness.

>>1905963
Pimozide.
The trannies are enabled so they do want to have other solutions.
Its one of those things that has not been researched much due to the political bullshit of the far left.
Pimozide is the only drug that has been tested recently.
We also have learned that gender dysphoria is related to schizophrenia so there may be drugs in that family the work, but people have to volunteer first.

>>1905975

>We also have learned that gender dysphoria is related to schizophrenia

You're going to have to provide credible source on this, my man.

>>1905972
that's because loads of jews are doctors
jews are very successful as an ethnic group

>>1905965
>Antipsychotics. The same thing we dish out to schizophrenics who think they're the King of Sweden.

Schizophrenia is not the same as being a tranny.

Schizophrenia has actual physical science behind it and is not a choice or some fetish or a real dysphoria.

>>1905975
>far left
learn what the far left is before opening your mouth

>>1905975
>The side effects include akathisia, tardive dyskinesia, and, more rarely, neuroleptic malignant syndrome and prolongation of the QT interval.

kekek, i'd rather give them HRT

>>1905956
>Taking female hormones that render you infertile so you could better fit the stereotype of the gender you want to be (which is a social construct) is a sign of a healthy mind?

why not?

>>1905960
put those goalposts back

>>1905981
I do. It's you.

>>1905088

Because their target audience have the mental capacity of 12 year olds.

>>1905977
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/schizort/2014/463757/

whatever prevents these freaks from breeding and polluting the gene pool I am behind 100%

>>1905956
>which is a social construct
gender isn't a social construct

>>1905984
No none should be enabled. The prevalence of those is not high.
There needs to be more trials.

>>1905989
I didn't move shit.
Thats like comparing a 9mm to a howitzer.
You just dont engage in good faith.

>>1906001
>No none should be enabled.
Everyone should be baby sit.

Trannies are not helpless individuals, they know what they are doing.

Should we go after religious folks for being delusional?
Should we go after alcoholics, because it's damaging?

>>1906005
>Trannies are not helpless individuals, they know what they are doing.
No they're mentally actually. They are at the mercy of their defective brains. Other avenues besides destroying their bodies with hrt or operations must be explored. They're not in a position to make any meaningful informed consent.

>>1906003
the original question:
>What people who do not have gender dysphoria think they were born in the wrong body?

i satisfactorily answered your question. maybe you should reconsider the parameters of your question if the answer brings the comparison between a (rather disingenuous) 'bit of nip tuck' and a 'legitimate mental disorder' -- it's pretty obviously you're purposely trying to make them sound miles apart in their severity by your choice of words

but i wonder why you think that so many transgender people undergo 'a bit of nip tuck' themselves? or are you under the impression that every transgender person wants to mutilate their genitalia for whatever reason?

>>1906005
They are not helpless but they are deluded.
We should call religious folks deluded because they are.

We are talking about how official psych deals with them. Not what they are free do do really.

But just like religion what they do affects others they try to bring others into their delusion.

Self mutilation and enableing of delusions should never be an official position

>>1906006
>They're not in a position to make any meaningful informed consent.

they're not unconscious lol

>>1906008
taking hormones isn't self mutilation lol

and i guess you think all people who have cosmetic surgery, tattoos, pierced ears are all mentally ill

>>1906011
>Being awake is all you need to be in order to give informed consent
All of your rebuttals are ridiculous straw men and you're arguing bad faith.

>>1906007
No you didn't you answered it with a false equivalence. And I pointed that out.
You are full of shit

>>1906014
False equivalence attempting to change your perceived sex is not the fucking same. How is this lost on you people?

>>1906020
they're not so deluded that they can't make decisions. obviously some might be but transgender people can still make rational decisions as well as others

>>Being awake is all you need to be in order to give informed consent

no that's not at all what i was saying

>>1906022
it wasn't a false equivalence since it answered your question. if you don't like the answer, change the question

>>1906024
you're right it is a false equivalence; having your face cut open and your nose chiseled away is not at all like taking a couple of pills

when you're ready to have an actual discussion on the topic instead of sharing meme opinions, let me know

>>1906028
Your answer is the problem.
If I say yeah I have a gun at home we should go shoot some. No one expects a goddamn artillery peice. Sure they are both guns. But the equivocation of the two is disingenuous.
You do nothing but argue in bad faith.

>>1906008
Other avenues are more harmful, more wasteful of the doctors' time and completely unnecessary to waste resources on.

>>1906006
>official psych
Psych is bullshit.

Trannies know what they are doing, again, they are ill and the best treatment is HRT.

Other than feminization all over, taking estrogen is less unhealthy than taking clen or something.

Why is it you care so much what trannies do to treat their mental illness?

Test receptor deficiency where people spend their whole lives as a girl just to find out they have testicles in stead of ovaries, have them removed and get HRT also.

Diabetics get treated with a hormone too.

Arthritis patients get treated with a hormone too.

HRT is best for them and that's what they should get, if they want it and if their doctor agrees, YOU have no place to be there with your "qualified" opinions.

>>1906033
stop asking stupid questions and i will not give you stupid answers

the following people wish they were in a different body:
- transgender people
- ugly people

any further argument or comparison (since you can't adequately argue a point, you assume the question automatically leads to a comparison outside the parameters of the question but this is illogical) is completely irrelevant.

it's like asking me to name another round fruit other than apples and i say oranges, then you say "WHAT YOU CAN'T COMPARE APPLES AND ORANGES". totally retarded

>>1906026
>they're not so deluded that they can't make decisions.
But they are. Gender dsyphoria is a full blown delusion. Full stop.

>>1906030
You are taking a couple of pills to fuck up your natural body chemistry. Based solely on a delusion

>>1906039
not to the point you suggest. for example they would still not touch an electrified fence that says "don't touch"

>>1906040
what does this have to do with your argument about self mutilation?

>>1906040
You're eating a couple dozen of hamburgers to fuck up your body chemistry. Based solely on being a fat fuck.

>>1906045
There goes that shitty false equivalency again!

Giving into a delusion is the not the same as giving in to your appetite!

>>1906035
Hrt is harmful the social costs are emmense.
We don't enable any other mental ilness why this one?
Some people will never pass well and thus never be accepted. How do you think that effects their mental state?
Treat these people as sick that's what they are and devise the least invasive solution. Fix them don't coddle them.

>>1906054
something like 80% of those who transitioned feel more comfortable at work. so how does it affect their mental state?

why do you think all mental illnesses are equal?

>>1906037
No ugly people want to improve their bodies.
They can only go so far with the natural structures of their faces. They want to look natural. They aren't trying to flip reverse their biology.

>>1906053
that's exactly what a deluded fat fuck would say. you shouldn't be operating a computer right now

>>1906053
Yea giving into your appetite just happens to be empirically bad for your health and "giving into a delusion" happens to be empirically positive for your well being.

But stay mad over something that you have no say over and has long since been decided. It must be frustrating that history will remember you as the mouthbreathing delusional subhuman.

>>1906044
That was mostly in response to you trying to minimise the concept of hrt
Besodes what else do you call the profoundly changing you body chemistry?

>>1906054
>Hrt is harmful the social costs are emmense[sic].
Post direct evidence right now.

>>1906060
>No ugly people want to improve their bodies.

i'm sure some want an entirely new body, just as some transgender want to improve their body

your problem is the way you categorise things. it's based on nothing, which is the point i'm getting at. too many weasel words. it may work well at convincing yourself that you're right but you'll need to work on your argumentation and formal logic if you want to convince others not as stupid as you

>>1906069
>Besodes what else do you call the profoundly changing you body chemistry?
Your diet.

>>1906058
All mental illnesses are created equal. They don't all have the same cause surely.
However enableing a delusion is not fixing the problem

Tranny stats tend to be heavily biased so I will take that with a grain of salt.

>>1906069
not 'mutilation' that's for sure, unless english was not my first language and i was struggling to describe the process, or looking for an emotional effect for the purpose of argument

but by definition and logic no i wouldn't call it mutilation

>>1906063
>>1906068
>Basic biological functions are the same as pumping your body with female hormones and irreversibly changing it

Lel I'm done

Enjoy never being accepted in society and eventually killing yourselves as you all do because you will never ever pass. Ever. :^)

>>1906082
>All mental illnesses are created equal.

nah

>delusion

nah

no point repeating the word 'delusion' and hoping to convince others without actually explaining how it's a delusion

>>1906076
If they want an entirely new body then you may have and argument. Since that would be extremely. Otherwise you are full of shit.
Everything you said is projection.
I am not the one equating a 9mm with a howitzer

>>1906088
overeating is a serious problem dude, i think you should get help immediately since you are unable to think for yourself

>>1906082
>literally demonstrably giving people more life satisfaction is not the solution
>i hate these stats for making my idiocy untenable so i'll pretend they dont count

>>1906092
you invited the comparison through how poorly you define terms and your inability to conceptualise what transgenderism and transitioning are -- you think in memes

>>1906086
Thats the best word I can think of. Though it isn't quite right.
Bulimics and anorexics have wrong perceptions of their bodies this is what this is.

>>1906091
Gender dysphoria is a false perception about reality.
How else do you define delusion?

>>1906100
bulimics and anorexics endanger their own lives. wanting to transition doesn't endanger your own life

>>1906105
>false perception

what?

>reality

what?

you sound like you're chanting a mantra

>>1906094
Yes the are biased since they only ever come from advocacy groups.

So we don't know how many regret making the choice to transition.

>>1906109
I sound like I am making sense. Its just foreign to you.

>>1906088
You're right, being so obese you can't stand up without winding yourself is actually a basic bodily function.
For you.

Meanwhile, only a small minority of trannies die due to anything related to their condition, but every fat fuck will die from being a fat fuck.

But of course the correct response to the above irrefutable fact is to rail against HRT, a proven effective treatment, while at the same time insisting that fat fucks ~totally~ deserve the right to literally eat themselves to death. Clearly just common sense and any sort of biased agenda (due to being a fat fuck).

But yes, run away now.

>>1906109
and your posts sound like babby's first socratic method

>>1906110
up to 20% according to a quick google search, but these are post-op

>>1906110
>regret making the choice
>the choice
we can't take care of everyone and protect them from their choices

it harms nobody directly but themselves

who cares

>>1906117
what reality are you talking about? what false perception?

>>1906120
not my fault the guy won't actually explain anything

>>1906105
>Gender dysphoria is a false perception about reality.
Only an extremely small minority of trannies literally believe they're the opposite gender trapped in the wrong body.

So while you are totally incorrect on the subject, is is therefor correct to say you are the one who is rabidly delusional about a topic that has nothing to do with you.

>>1906122
No don't you see? Fat fatty boombilatties that eat themselves into the grave at 51 are totally in control over their own fates, but by god we must protect trannies from their own life choices!

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>>1906122
THEY'RE MENTALLY ILL AND INCAPABLE OF MAKING SUCH CHOICES

THEY NEED TO BE PROTECTED FROM THEMSELVES

THIS IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE MENTAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM

HOLY SHIT 10/10

>>1906122
Researching and having something less drastic is always best

>>1906123
Why are you playing dumb?

>>1906139
if mental illness stopped people from making informed decisions then there wouldn't be anyone fit to make decisions at all

>>1906147
i want to hear your stupid ideas about a topic you don't know anything about

>>1906130
Then where do this tranny retardation come from then?

It doesn't affect me the moment the ask me or any one else to take part in their psychosis it becomes my problem

>>1906157
have you been checked for autism?

>>1906154
I am just using the definition of gender dysphoria nothing more.

>>1906157
>This is my friend William
>Please, call me Bill
>DO NOT IMPOSE YOUR DELUSIONS ON ME I WILL CALL YOU BY YOUR REAL NAME RATHER THAN ENABLE YOUR MENTAL ILLNESS

>>1906160
Answer the question if it it not a mental ilness then what is it? Why do it? There must be some dissatisfaction or compulsion

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>>1906139
>I'M TOTALLY MENTALLY SOUND AND SHOULD HAVE MY EATING CHOICES RESPECTED EVEN THOUGH I LITERALLY HAVE A PHYSICAL DEPENDENCY ON MCDONALDS
>YOU SHOULD JUST LET ME EAT 40 BURGERS A DAY AND KILL MYSELF

>>1906161
>the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex.

this one? where does it mention reality and false perception?

>>1906167
Oh just fuck off.
You are worthless.
Can't even engage in good faith.
You are ill

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Humanities was a mistake

>>1906172
Feeling

>>1906168
when you refer to someone as a man or a woman you are not referring to their chromosomes

>>1906141
>Research
Good news! We already did!

You wouldn't believe what the results are!

>>1906178
where does it mention reality and false perception?

if i feel happy is it a false perception of reality?

>>1906174
>Can't even engage in good faith.

i'm not going to enable your delusions about what transgenderism is

>>1906186
Then tell me what it is.
I am not a tranny I don't WANT to be deluded.

>>1906157
>Then where does [insert boogeyman here] come from then?

>it becomes my problem
You can solve that problem by saying "ill call you what i like" or just not communicating with them at all if it hurts your tiny baby feels that much. But how you want to solve it is through becoming a tyrant over other people's lives.

>>1906183
More disingenuous bullshit...

>>1905057
I remember nancy-boys are considered good luck in Oaxaca, because they take care of their old parents instead of having kids.

I also remember something about androgyney in some faith-healer and mystic traditions.

Eunuchs were often treated as a third gender de facto.

>>1906189
>I don't WANT to be deluded.

Every single post you've made has directly shown how DESPERATELY you want to remain deluded on a topic that offends you.

>>1906174
>it's psychosis because i say it is

there's no point in engaging with you in 'good faith'. your argument ought to be completely destroyed and every aspect of its formulation taken to its appropriate logical conclusion, where the twisted end result should cause you to re-evaluate your beliefs and build an argument up from scratch

as of now your conflations and poor definition all feed into themselves and cause this illogical mess that keeps you saying t-h-e most dumbest, baseless shit. and you think you can sit there and call others deluded without a hint of hypocrisy

>>1906181
There has been no significant research.
Otherwise there would be more than what's available and the schizophrenia connection would be explored

>>1906189
>Then tell me what it is.

so you don't know, and yet here you are offering your shit in cupped hands

>>1906196
Disingenuous is avoiding answering a question because you're unable to defend your insipid retardation.

>>1906198
What is Transgenderism?
Enough with the bullshit

>>1906197
it has been too long since there was a genuine reply to the question

>>1905238
>terrorising his buttocks with monster whopper
Laughed out loud.
>it says "shafted" instead of "accuser" or "victim"
This is glorious.

>>1906191
I am not telling you what to do. Fuck up yourself if you want. But fuck your pronouns fuck treating you as the opposite sex.
Never try to control language

shift goal posts
I'm sorry what do you mean exactly :^)
false equivalency galore
so you're saying [insert statement here] you're wrong!
this thread really made me think!

>>1906200
>significant by my arbitrary standards
FTFY

Also love how within the very same breath of you claiming there's no valid research you also try to sneak in a claim that would require valid research.

>>1906209
they are that sex though

>>1906201
No i know what it is.
I am just interested in hearing how you weasel on telling me your conception of it.

Seriously you have a chance to set the record straight.

>>1906221
>No i know what it is.

you have consistently demonstrated that you don't

>>1906209
No they aren't.
Changing your morphology does not change your biology

>>1906217
There is litterly one study of pimozide and none testing schizophrenia drugs.

>>1906223
The in your opinion what is it.

Why won't you take the opportunity to set me straight?

>>1906231
there isn't really a schizophrenia connection, just some overlap, but that's not really an excuse (with such a small sample size) that there should be tests

in parts of Italy (or maybe it was Sicily) it was acceptable to raise one of your daughters as a man if you had no sons.

>>1906209
>I am not telling you what to do.

Okay so all those posts in this thread directly demanding that trannies should not be allowed hrt were all figments of our imaginations.

could you do me a little favor, just as a show of good faith? id like you to denounce all those posts here and now, and once again reiterate that trannies should have control over their bodies and life choices. because otherwise i might suspect your lack of conviction and reason that this last post of yours was just an attempt to slink out of the corner you wound yourself in.

>Never try to control language
thats funny, i never tried to control your language, i was offering you advice how to solve your own personal problem that you've created for yourself in your own mind.

>>1906221
he literally gave you the first definition that comes up for it.

>>1906233
it is what it is. what do you expect me to say?

>>1906233
so your demand has gone from "what is transgenderism (verbatim)" and when he gave you the explicit definition, you've changed your demand to "no i want to know YOUR opinion"

is it because you're absolutely desperate to find even the slightest little thing to bite onto, that the literal definition doesnt give you?

>>1906249
tell us

>>1906227
gender isn't biological

>>1906238
I never saw a single post denying you access. As long as taxes don't go toward it.
You may make any choice you wish.
Even the wrong ones. Religions are stupid but I still have religious friends.

The language comment was an in general thing about the kerfuffle over proper pronouns.

>>1906244
>>1906244
Something better than that

>>1906252
Gender and sex are functionally the same.
The discrepancy only shows up in the mentally ill

>>1906249
>>1906243
He acted like he had some other insight.
I knew that definition already. Its the one I work off of as well.

>>1906250
here
>>1906172

>>1906261
>Something better than that
How about the explicit definition?

If that doesn't "set you straight" on what transgenderism is, I don't know what will.

>>1906261
if you're looking for me to define it in a way that substitutes 'mental illness' for another descriptive term then you're not going to find it. i don't know how you expect to be convinced that it is anything other than the standard definition

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

knock yourself out

>>1906265
>Gender and sex are functionally the same.

incorrect. gender has no reproductive function

>>1906269
So feels > reals?

>>1906272
They still aren't functionally different in mentally healthy people.

>>1905071
Which makes you think why cant western trannies just live their live isntead of revolting and making a big problems for the rest.
You dont see thai ladyboys screaming on campuses about """"abuse"""" because someone said "she or he".

>>1906281
Is why when there's a mismatch we use HRT.

>>1906281
boats aren't referred to as women because they birth little baby boats. but i'm mentally ill for thinking that

if you want to be argued with in good faith, you need to offer something that isn't unfalsifiable.

>>1906255
>I never saw a single post denying you access.
>>1906139
>>1906026
>>1906008


It's funny the things you don't see, you cowardly pathetic sniveling subhuman rat fuck.

>>1906278
what's the "reals" in this situation?

>>1906278
What?

>>1906291
Penis = man
Vagina = woman
Intersex = cruel mistakes of nature that should be aborted

>>1906287
Thats not a justificstion.
That more like a black albino getting plastic surgery to pass a white. At least conceptually
Its the wrong way to go about it.
Enableing mental illness is never acceptable.

>>1906303
woman with penis = woman with penis

sorry that you can't comprehend. psychological identity doesn't stem from biological sex

>>1906306
>Enableing mental illness is never acceptable.

agreed - this site should be shut down

>>1906306
>Enableing mental illness
It's treating it, the body is wrong

HRT makes it right

>>1906306
>Its the wrong way to go about it.
According to you.

Thankfully you are utterly powerless to affect any policy on the matter.

>>1906290
The first and the last one don't you are on crack.
The middle 2 take the decision out of your hands due to your mental illness which is actually pretty standard. The decision could still be made to give you the extreme treatment

>>1906310
>psychological identity doesn't stem from biological sex
It does. Trannies just have defective biology (brain no worky)

>>1906312
I wouldn't miss it.
But that would be a violation of freedom of speech

>>1906321
so in what way is it feels > reals then if the mental illness is biological? in that case the feeling perfectly reflects the reality

not that it matters because you're wrong either way since psychological identity doesn't stem from biological sex and there's nothing you can say that will change that fact. i could even go so far as to say mentally healthy people believe psychological identity doesn't stem from biological sex but i would like to make a logical argument rather than unfalsifiable and baseless nonsense

>>1906313
No you are wrong.
Your body presented as the chromosomes dictated.

>>1906326
shut up

>>1906332
obviously not

>>1906330
Feeling like a woman when you have xy and a cock and ball is not reality.