So for some time now I've been discussing with a friend

>>1887193
Maybe Russia and Ukraine can be counted for Kievan Rus being founded by Vikings. They haven't done more than pillaging in the rest.

>>1887205
Yeah but it helps to have sources on why he's wrong.

>>1887193
>britain
they got violently expelled frome england and borderline genocided
>france
wat
literally wat
>italy
there was like one nord in sicily with a title
>spain
lol
>russia
the tsars were descendants of rurik, a nord, but that's about it
>tunisia
i want whatever he's having
>baltics
no
maybe estonia if you really stretch it
>ukraine
just no

>>1887193
Your friend is a moron.

The reason he lists Tunisia is probably because he doesn't know the difference between Vandals and the Nords.

>>1887233
At the moment his current reasoning is Germanic = Nordic therefore vandals = nords

>>1887193
North Germanics have (probably) had a hand in the emergence of the following historical states:
>Britain
>Russia
>Ukraine (both Kievan Rus')
They have played a large role in the history of the following:
>Baltics
>France (Normans)
And East Germanics (Goths, Burgundians, Vandals, Alans etc.) have founded kingdoms in the following countries:
>France (Burgund)
>Italy (Ostrogothic Kingdom)
>Spain (Asturias)
>Tunisia (Vandal Kingdom, stretched over Tunisia, Algeria and mediterranean islands)

I hope this has been helpful.

>>1887248
So what is the difference between Germanics and Nords? Or is there none? And how much influence would you say they have over those countries today?

>>1887262
Nords denote Scandinavia, Germanic is a massive family.

Crediting Nords for states like France or Britain would be like crediting Italy for the Spanish colonizing South America.

>>1887193
He's getting Germans and Nords mixed up.

>>1887217
I assume he means kievan rus

>>1887193
Polish-Lithuanians (including Letts) and Finns/estonians are more or less the same people as Scandinavians. Russia and Ukraine were both founded by Swedes (modern finnish word for sweden = "Ruotsi", land of the rowmen) and of course there is some similarity between parts of the populations, these are big countries with differing influence however.

>>1887193
goths came from sweden, afaik they weren't overtaken in italy after the conquest of western rome, britain is self-explanatory, russia and ukraine from rurikids

tunisia is just dumb as they were driven out, though they could be responsible for the idea of tunisia as a nation, same goes for the balts

>>1887193
About Estonia:
With the fall of Rome and the period of migrations in the early Early Middle Ages resulted in a decline in the level of culture and prosperity in Estonia. People were more concerned with survival than wealth in 500AD.
With the beginning of the Viking Age changed this. With vikings establishing contacts and trade routes which went right by island of Ösel and the coast of Viru. This brought the estonians into the influence of the cultural and economic network of vikings. A few of the companions of Rurik have estonian names. Ösellians adapt the longship and become renowed traders and raiders. Lennart Meri makes a case of that-famous-arabicish-explorer-describing-a-funeral-on-the-Volga of them being if not estonian then nearby finnourgics. By this time the local situation has also recovered and estonians contribute to the trade and the kaupang system as well by exporting iron and weapons and fur with commercial production.
No viking jarl establish themselves in the territory, though raids agains neighbors are common. In the 11th century Rus manages to conquer the fur exporting region but is driven out after a few decades by a concentrated effort by the other counties.

>>1887193

Germanics and Nords, not just Nords.

Britain - Saxons
France - Franks
Italy - Lombards?
Spain - Goths
Russia - Vikings
Tunisia - Vandals
Baltics - Vikings?
Ukraine - Vikings

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>>1887248
East Germanics left their touch in Poland.

Even though butthurt pan-germanists deny that.

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>>1887480
>Spain - Goths
>Tunisia - Vandals
Vandals left Tunisia and most of them returned to modern day Poland.

Not sure about Spain-Gothic connection, since Goths were R1a carriers.

>>1887193
Regarding Latvia, no.

Latvian tribes (4 of them) were a thing long before the teutons came.

Did their own raiding/warring, trade etc. The Germans then came, invaded and pretty much united the 4 Latvian tribes by force. Nords had no part in this,in fact we BTFOd ths Nords a couple of times

>>1887286

And you are mixing Germans and Germanics.

>>1887193
I can tell you about Finland, he's somewhat right about it.

Finland was a province of Sweden until 1809 when Russia took it over. For some reason the russians gave it autonomy and kept the existing swedish laws in place, basically creating a mini-Sweden inside Russia. At that time like 20% of the population of Finland spoke swedish and they made up the upper class. Fast forward 50 years and nationalism finds its way to Finland. Funnily enough it was the fennoswedes who first started embracing it, many of them changed their names to finnish sounding ones and started speaking finnish in their daily lives. If you look at the most famous finnish nationalist artists you'll find out that almost all of them spoke swedish as their native language.

>>1887193
what kind of autism is greater corsica?

>>1887217
Ukraine and Russia was both Rus, anon.

>>1887387
>Polish-Lithuanians (including Letts) and Finns/estonians are more or less the same people as Scandinavians.
Look at this >>1887641 and say it again, I dare you. Poles are already different enough from Balts, and Finns are even more different from Balts, while Scandinavians are further divided from them.

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>>1888137
>haplomemes

yaaaaaaaay

>>1887262
Nords are native Norwegians or native speakers of the Norwegian language.
Germanics are the ethnicities whose native languages are Germanic languages. That is West, East and North Germanic languages. Northmen, Norse, or North Germanics represent the North Germanic branch. They have historically had sway in the countries we listed, but they don't have any influence there anymore. Everything else is a matter of population genetics.
>>1887639
Yes, and in eastern Germany and other parts all over Europe. I only listed the countries that OP spoke about.

>>1887661
So at least you could say that Germans (which OP's friend seems to include in his understanding of """"nords"""") erected the first state on Latvian soil when they founded the State of the Teutonic Order?

>>1888274
An official state, yes. The monastic state of the Livonian order, something like that.

But the Germans called the 4 Latvian tribes as duchies/kingdoms and the chiefs as kings (rex) in their chronicles.

>>1888333
let me rephrase that

there were official states on Latvian soil before as well, but they didnt have the name Latvia in it. This name only appeared after all of 4 tribes assimilated each other forming one entity.

>>1887639
>>1887641
>>1888154
I wonder why did Germanics differ so much in genetics.
Some of them carried l1, some of them R1a and most of them R1b.

Seems like almost entire Europe is Germanic.

Because R1b=/=germanic and R1a=/=slav

>>1888417
for >>1888409

>>1888417
>>1888418
They were both present in Germanics though, in some cases at really high frequencies.

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>>1887269
so hol up where the hell did the germanics come from if they weren't all fucking nords?
oh wait, nords are the germans bitch
if you're not of nordic descent you're not european.

>>1887217
>>1887193
what about the viking invasions huh?
also fuck you butthurt romaboo, you're the nords bitches

even byzantium was cucks to the nords, their armies were so shit they had to hire vikings as the emperors guards
fucking read a book mudslime

>>1888568
You're fucking retarded if you think germanics = germans.

>>1888568

>Nordic
>Aka Easterlings
>European

>>1887193
For Tunisia is he talking about the Vandals? Because they weren't nords, they were Eastern European, not to mentionany semblance of a society they had got wiped clean with the Arab conquest

>>1888586
no bitch germanics are literally nords, where the fuck do you think they migrated from dumbass? oh wait thats scandinavia isn't it?

>>1888594
vandals are germanic dumbass

they literally migrated from scandinavia

>>1888019
Don't look at Ireland

>>1888606
No they didn't you retard. The earliest records place them in Poland and there's no way of knowing that they started there

>>1888651
prove it to me then bitch

>>1887193
>Britain (ok I can see this one being right but still)
well, there were some Viking influences and Normans founded "modern" Britain even though they were more French than Viking
>Italy (lol)
your lol is premature, they had a rather prosperous kingdom on Sicily
>Italy (lol)
>france
>Spain (wut?)
>Fucking TUNISIA lmao
calling Lombards, Franks, Visigoths and Vandals Nods isn't quite correct
>Russia
>Ukraine
yes, however Early Kievan Russia = Ukraine, later Muscovy Russia had more in common with Tatars
>Baltics (including Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania)
they had some influence, not sure how big

>>1887193
you can tell your friend that he is just a norse version of a weeaboo. which makes him norseboo?

he is on the same level with "we wuz kangz", "milady", "turks are the true hyperboreans", "russia is the continuation of the Roman Empire", etc

>>1887193
Is that some shit map from /gsg/ or something?

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>>1888692
>The Vandals are believed to have migrated from southern Scandinavia[2][3][4] to the area between the lower Oder and Vistula somewhere in the 2nd century BC, and to have settled in Silesia from around 120 BC
>believed
Just like people call them "german" despite them being genetical ancestors of modern Western Slavs.

>>1888972
Not to mention that names of the Vandal rulers mean nothing in German, yet have a meaning in Slavic languages.

>>1888972
>believed to have migrated from southern Scandinavia
Why do so many peoples com from Scandinavia?
It seems like every 200 years a load of people migrated from there and those left behind started reproducing for the new wave.

>>1887193

This is a probably a bait thread fir some retarded purposes, but alright, I'll bite;

ALL of the WRE was taken over by germanics that established kingdoms there during the 5th and/or 6th centuries. Italia, Galia, Hispania, Britania and North Africa. The origins of modern European countries can be traced back to when they stopped being a province of the Roman Empire and became their own separate thing under these Kingdoms.

As for Russia and Ukraine, the origins of Rus are related to the merchant activities of Varangians sailing down the big russian rivers and aiming at Constantinople, that eventually evolved into a more sort of political nature, networking and mixing with the local slav population and producing the first russian states, the most relevant early one being Kievan Rus.

>>1889266
Correct, but Russia became a thing in 1500s

>>1887193

For Spain it is the Visigoths for Asturias, and Goths of unknown origin (vassals of the Franks) in the case of Catalonia (Gothalaunia)

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>>1889293
hmmmm

>>1889334
really made me think

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>>1888972
Where do you think the East Germanics came from if not from the Germanic urheimat, i.e. Denmark and southern Scandinavia? Nobody calls them German. They never were German. They predate the very concept of Germans. They are East Germanics. It is no surprise that they are ancestors to Western Slavs, because they lived in the same area at some point in time.
>>1888983
Do you have some examples for that?

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>>1890212
Jordanes mentions during the 5th century three Gothic kings, apparently living under Hunnic rule, called Valamir, Thiudemir and Vidimir. These names are quite odd, as the first two almost certianly translate to Walamar and Thiudemar. The last seems odd in the normal Germanic naming scheme. Unless the letter "n" was left out and it actually read Vindimir. In that case it would translate to Wendemar, and the three kings would have names meaning famous Celt/Roman, famous German and famous Slav.

Isn't "mir" slavic for peace or world? Or is it only in Russian borrowed from Goths?
Whatever the history is "Vidimir" have a slavic vibe.

As for Vandals. Their names that mean nothing in Nordic languages, mean a lot in Slavic languages, like Visimar, are germanized Slavic names (Visimar - Widzimir "sees the world" or Radagaisus latin version of Radegast "happy to host")

>>1890245
>Isn't "mir" slavic for peace or world? Or is it only in Russian borrowed from Goths?
>Whatever the history is "Vidimir" have a slavic vibe.
That's all just folk etymology. Modern Russian does not exist for one and a half millenium after the Vandals left Poland. The name of the Vandals themselves derived from the place they came from, Vendel in eastern Sweden. It is cognate with German "wandeln" and English "to wander".

>>1887269
>>1887269
>Nords denote Scandinavia
"Nords" is not a well-defined term, it could mean germanic scandinavians or it could even just refer to norwegians

>>1888568
>so hol up where the hell did the germanics come from if they weren't all fucking nords?
it is true that the germanic urheimat is assumed to be scandinavia so in that sense this >>1887248 shows how OP's friend could be right in a way

>oh wait, nords are the germans bitch
???

>if you're not of nordic descent you're not european.
what does that "european" mean to you? the concept of europe was invented by the greeks and all indo-europeans are in a way immigrants to the continent (if you define identity over language)

>>1890273
>The name of the Vandals themselves derived from the place they came from, Vendel in eastern Sweden. It is cognate with German "wandeln" and English "to wander".
Exactly.

And you know how Germans called Western Slavs? Wends, meaning Wanderer as well.

According to Gregory of Tours, Vandals returned to their homeland.

>>1887193
>Brittain
Anglo-Saxons
>Italy
Lombards
>France
Franks
>Spain
Visigoths
>Russia&Ukraine
Kievan Rus
>Baltics
Teutonic Order and Swedes
>Tunisia
Vandals

The only one he's deeply wrong about is Tunisia, because the Vandals were destroyed by the Romans and Later Muslim rule has nothing in common with the vandals.

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>>1888423
Current East Germany was populated by Slavs. Over time they got mostly germanized.

>>1888358
Not that guy, but i guess you could say that. Also the name Latvia appeared only much later on, and Livonia incorporated both what is now Latvia and Estonia in a single state, yet they are separate countries with separate national identities today.

>>1892205
The name Livonia was assigned to the whole land because the first people the germans encountered after landing were livonians.

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>>1891908
But those "slavs" didn't really come there from Ukraine, like the Germans tried to manipulate.

They were native to this land. >>1887639
>>1887641

>>1890294
Vendel got its name from the river, which was named simply for its movement - it was called "one which wanders". Wends, in turn, derived from the Latin term Veneti or at least from the same PIE root: *u̯en-, 'to strive; to wish for, to love'. It is cognate with the name of the goddess Venus and the German name component <win> or <wein> for friend.

>>1892552
Some people believe that Vandals were the same people as Veneti.

Brits
>Conquered by the Normans (from Norway)
The Frogs
>Conquered by the Normans
Italy
>Ancient mosaics display blondes and statues are painted blue eyed with blonde/red hair. Same with Greece.
Spain
>No clue mate, maybe because the Gailic, Gothic, Celts and Vandals had all made that place their home at one point.
Russia
>Nobles I guess... Predominately slavic though
Tunisia
>I know very little about Tunisia
Baltic States
>I know they were developed a lot in the middle ages by german merchants (particularly Estonia), but I have no clue about Nordic interference.. Makes sense because they're close to the Swedes
Ukraine
>No clue

>>1892667
>The Frogs
>>Conquered by the Normans
"No."

>>1892681
I suppose the frogs just had to relinquish Normandy to them.

>>1892667.

Nordicist memes die hard apparently.

>>1892616
But that's the opinion of a small minority. With a good reason.

>>1892252
That's what I'm saying. East "Germans" are actually germanized West Slavs, which is why their haplogroups are closer to Slavs than West Germans.

So wait, most of Europe is nordic or germanic? Wouldn't that mean OP's "retarded" friend was corect and you're all wrong?

Balts -> Latvia contained may different tribes, one of these tribes Curonians in 8th-12th century raided pretty much Sweden and Denmark coasts.