Is there an argument to be made that the Versailles Treaty really

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You're right.

It's the classic case of germans doing german things to destroy Europe.

>>1842348
It wasn't the treaty itself, it was the fact that the French and British refused to enforce it.

>>1842353
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No. Had Germany been respectfully approached post WW1 the Nazis would never have risen to prominence, instead the allies ripped German majority land from it, told it it couldn't have an army, and made it pay for a war that should have been an Austro-Serb regional conflict.

>>1842354
France wanted to kill Germany when they reoccupied the Rhineland but Britain wouldn't allow it.

>>1842348
>I mean, that's just my attempt to play devil's advocate, all my formal education taught me that it played a huge role in leading to WW2.

It's a meme spawned by the Cold War to rehabilitate Germany, which was now a Western ally, without belittling the nazi atrocites (muh 6 millions)
Same shit as claiming "everyone is responsible for WW1", when just looking at a timeline of the outbreak tells you otherwise

In reality, the poverty in Germany during the 30s didnt result from the unenforced Versailles reperation but from the US spawned Great Depression.
Versailles did play a role in causing WW2 in that it was too lenient (Germany isnt occupied, and remain one country).
Post-WW2 peace was much harsher (never ending military occupation still applied to this day and country divided intwo until the 90s) and effectively put a end to German chimpouts

>>1842348
Congratulations, anon, you have discovered the joys of post 1960s historiography! Yes, most of what you say is indeed a position very close to how historical consensus today views the post-WW1 developments.

Although not entirely, for example Hitler does refer to Versailles specifically a couple of times - but an order of magnitude less than to judeo-bolsheviks or a variation thereof.

Furthermore these references are often about the treaty being a humiliation of the German people rather than its actual effects. You will find that this is where the core of the issue you have touched upon lies.

Basically "popular history" often overlooks the propaganda value of the treaty, while conversely overplaying its supposed impact -- all the while ignoring that indeed, most of the reparations were not paid, even though Germany could have actually paid them, the treaty was not enforced after a few years, Germany received more money in foreign investment and loans (that they then defaulted on) than during the Marshall Plan.

>>1842360
If the treaty so clearly led to the Nazis's prominence, explain how come that in the immediate postwar years - during which the treaty would have been felt the most - they were a laughing stock, literal nobodies, and had zero power?

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>>1842360
>Had Germany been respectfully approached post WW1 the Nazis would never have risen to prominence,

You mean as respectfully approched as Post-WW2?
Germany was too respectfully treated after WW1, which is why they were able to chimp out again soon after

>>1842370
>In reality, the poverty in Germany during the 30s didnt result from the unenforced Versailles reperation but from the US spawned Great Depression.
ding ding ding ding

It is astounding how little the Depression is mentioned when talking about the lead up to WW2, when it is literally the single most important event in the Nazi rise of power.

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>>1842360
>and made it pay for a war that should have been an Austro-Serb regional conflict.

Gee, I wonder who turned what should have been an Austro-Serb regional conflict into a world war...

>>1842378
Because the treaty did that to them, resulting in the Nazis rise to power, who then stopped obeying the treaty.

>>1842379
>so soon
They were castrated for more than a decade, if it hadn't been for the Nazis refusing to abide by the treaty they would have remained so.

>>1842381
The Frogs had been building up the maginot line since 1871. Advancing on such positions would have been suicide. Britain hsd no resson to defend Belgium other than perfidiousity.

>>1842348

It was a major theme in Nazi propaganda but even with a "fair" peace they'd have found something to complain about.

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>>1842380
But the economic crisis in Germany started before the great depression, how could it have been the cause of it?

>>1842407
>The Frogs had been building up the maginot line since 1871. Advancing on such positions would have been suicide. Britain hsd no resson to defend Belgium other than perfidiousity.

That doesnt explain why Austria attacking Serbia justifies Germany attacking France and Russia

>>1842370
>It's a meme spawned by the Cold War to rehabilitate Germany, which was now a Western ally, without belittling the nazi atrocites

Interesting, never thought about it like this

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>>1842407
>Britain hsd no resson to defend Belgium other than perfidiousity.
Don't you mean a "scrap of paper" kraut?

>>1842412
The Great Depression started in 1929, literal retard
That exactly what your graph is showing

>>1842407
>Because the treaty did that to them, resulting in the Nazis rise to power, who then stopped obeying the treaty.
... because the treaty did what to them?

Furthermore the Nazis were not the ones to stop obeying the treaty, that would be Weimar.

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>>1842415
Serbia was allied with Russia, France was allied with Russia. They wouldn't have gained anything from simply waiting for them to declsre war, as they certainly would have.

>>1842417
Show me a single reason the Britons had to defend Belgium. It's a literal meme country with no resources and no strategic importance.

>>1842423
It actually shows a major decline in 1928, and the GD didn't start until late 1929.

>>1842433
>weimar
>doing anything other than being a western puppet
Until 1933 Germany was a bitch. They accepted paying reparations, they accepted keeping the military low, they accepted the Rhineland being demilitarised, they accepted it all.

>>1842445
>Until 1933 Germany was a bitch. They accepted paying reparations, they accepted keeping the military low, they accepted the Rhineland being demilitarised, they accepted it all.
Is this bait? It was the Weimar government that restarted the military in violation of the treaty, and it was the Weimar government which saw reparations cancelled.

>>1842445
>It actually shows a major decline in 1928, and the GD didn't start until late 1929.

Now it doesnt, fag
1928 is still above 1926, just not on the level of the miracle 1927, but still okay
The real shit starts by 1929
Learn to economy

>>1842353
Hi there!

You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!

Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!

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>>1842458
Do you have any sources for this? The first cited article on Wiki about it is in 1935.

>>1842462
Actually, it clearly does show a major decline from 1927 to 1928 but whatever. Even if what you were saying was true that doesn't explain how the economy recovered in 1933, despite the GD still raging at this time.

>>1842534
>Do you have any sources for this?
... literally any history book? The Third Reich in Power by Evans.

Furthermore even fucking wikipedia has entire articles dedicated to this shit, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_re-armament. Stop being a faggot.

>>1842534
>Even if what you were saying was true that doesn't explain how the economy recovered in 1933, despite the GD still raging at this time.

No one said the nazis didnt fix the economy
What I said is that it's the Great Depression that fucked German economy, not Versailles reparations that stopped to be enforced after 1922 anyway

>>1842565
>No one said the nazis didnt fix the economy
Well an easy argument could be made that they have not as much fixed it properly as merely propped it up with unsustainable measures that might have favored macro indicators like gnp or employment, but in fact resulted in greater costs of living and lower real wages

>>1842407
>The Frogs had been building up the maginot line since 1871
Construction on the Maginot line started in 1929 you ignorant shit