Phoenicians are the most overrated civilization in history.

poop dick

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>>1840970
> Phoenicians
> Not Zulus

>>1840970
Inventing the writing system that the entire western world uses. Honestly if they did nothing else this would be enough to make a great legacy.

>>1840976
What are you talking about, the Zulus are underrated.
Shaka was Napoleon and Gaius Marius rolled into one, completely changing the way the Zulus lived and fought and conquering anyone who got in his way. Then he goes full Caligula on the entirety of South East Africa when his mum dies.
That they're only remembered for fighting the Brits is the real tragedy.

In fact, the British are indisputably the most overrated race in history. No other nation's history receives such in depth evaluation and praise.

>>1840986
Shaka was a great leader, but Zulu as civilization never really amount to anything.

>>1840986
>Shaka
>Napoleon and Gaius Marius rolled into one

Yeah yeah, he was good. That doesn't mean he compares to Napoleon.

>>1840986
Shaka is underrated, the Zulus aren't. It's annoying that Sub-Saharan Africa had so many prosperous civilizations and kingdoms but the Zulus seem to be the only one people are aware of.

>>1840980
>le alphabet
when will this meme end?

>>1841006
When you provide convincing evidence they didn't.

>>1841025
Not saying they didn't, just saying it's not that big of an accomplishment.

If Carthage had not been completely destroyed we would have had more insights on Phoenician culture, which at least on a material and administrative level was on par with Greek city states and Rome.

It's a great pity that the only sources about Carthage come from Rome, and you have bullshit there about child sacrifice. Curiously some more impartial and leveled documents like emperor Claudius history of Carthage, have been lost.

>>1840996
They've got a cool name and a few movies. That's all you need.

>>1841048
Literally every alphabetic writing system in the world is descended from the Phoenician alphabet. Except maybe Korean Hangul.

>>1840986

You're missing the scale. They were fighting over desert and their enemies hadn't invented the wheel. Its like calling two kids in a sandpit fighting the same as a fight between two professional boxers.

>>1840970
>the only civilisation the Romans actually feared
>overrated
Delete yourself

>>1841076
>bronze tophets filled with children skeletons of all ages and animal bones
>hurr we dinn kill nuffin

>>1841076
>If Carthage had not been completely destroyed we would have had more insights on Phoenician culture

>be a decentralised thalassocratic cultural group
>your legacy hinges entirely on the survival of a single city-state

hmm genuinely gets them neurons firing

>>1841225

They were still born infants and fetuses, or children who passed away before their initiation to adulthood, you idiot.

All that bullshit comes from the bible and Diodorus Siculus

>>1841225
>bronze
>tophet


You don't know What you're talking about

>>1840976
>Zulus
We wuz Kings 'n shit

>>1840996
"Civilization"
That's a very specific word which indicates an ability to both develop and live within an urban environment, both of which they did not do. Hence, culture rather than 'civilization' would be more applicable.

Are they overrated though? I never hear anyone blowing out about them.

>>1841225
>believing in Roman propaganda
good pleb

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>>1840990
Shake Zula greater than Shaka Zulu

>>1841280
What the fuck are you talking about?
Are you implying Africans had no civilizations?
Cause they syee as fuck did

>>1841280
>live within an urban environment, both of which they did not do
Are you fucking stupid? How can someone be so historically illiterate?

>>1840986
Nah, the Zulus are only famous because the Brits didn't felt ashamed about losing against literal spear chuckers.

>>1841280
How do you function having such gaps in historical knowledge?

>>1841280
> did not do

top kek my friend

do some research. Look up Benin, Songhai, Timbuktu, Mali, Kilwa, Zanzibar. Then come back.

>>1841746

No, the Brits greatly admired the Zulus and called them the "African Sparta" for their highly organised and militaristic society. Obviously they got BTFO (eventually) by guns, but then so did everyone.

>>1841746
Should really have written "Because the Britts didn't want to feel ashamed about losing against some literal spear chuckers so they made up a lot of shit to make it seem less hummilating"

>>1841173
If any thing that makes it more impressive and certainly doesn't detract from it

>>1840970
In order for them to be overrated, there must be someone who rates them highly. So far i've never met one.

Carthage should have won. Subhuman Romans just relied on human wave tactics.

I rarely hear anyone even mention the phoenicians ever. I've been away from the board for a while, but have we even had threads about them?

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-01-23-ancient-carthaginians-really-did-sacrifice-their-children

>>1841665
something something pan-Arabist something something we are Phoenician something something you oppressed my great great grandparents
You are basically right though, it's a case of WE WUZ

>Be Phoenician
>invent the alphabet
>shitposters on /his/ call it a meme
>Start a colony that evolves into the biggest merchant empire in the Mediterranean
>becomes the buggest fear of the romans
>get dragged into a war with them 3 times in a row.
>it's always their fault but they blame it on you
>romans invent propaganda about how bad and barbaric you were to make their genocide justifiable
>eurofags believe it
>they remove all traces of your culture and beliefs to make themselves more believable
>no one questions it
>Shitposters on /his/ who probably know nothing about Carthage and Phoenicia call you overrated between their daily Roman statue worship rituals followed by gay religious orgies
I feel bad for the Phoenicians

>>1842033
Carthage relied in mercenaries they stiffed repeatedly. Not a terribly good idea.

>>1845525
Their suffering is over. You should feel at peace with them. As long as their blood lives on they've won. Added bonus if their ideas prevail as well.

>>1845525
Second Punic War was entirely a Carthaginian conception

The history hasn't been kind to trader states.

Dicks out for Novgorod and Carthage.

>>1840986
Mandating that soldiers wear sandals instead of walk barefoot and they shorten their spears so they can skirmish with them isn't Marius.
Making sure that soldiers advance as groups and some are left behind for reserves, instead of scream and sprint forward as a mass of flesh, doesn't make him Napoleon.

>>1845525
>peaceful merchants

where have i heard that one before?

>>1845695

Its relative.

You have to reign in expectations for the sub saharans.

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>>1840970
Egypt is pretty overrated. I mean they're cool and all but they're no Hittites.

>>1847562
Hittite Empire: 400-500 years
Pharaonic Egypt: 3,000 years
Longevity isn't everything, but come on. Plus, pyramids.