When did Europeans start considering Americans are non-European?

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I apologize for all the typos, I was typing fast and failed to proofread.

>>1831109
Because you're an American now.

Back then before being assimilated into "White society". Poles, Irish, and other ethnic groups used to be more like their home countries, they had small enclaves where they kept their own culture, which how the Americans got the little italys and chinatowns. After WWII the government began to break and assimilate the White ethnics, especially the Catholic ones which were seen to not have loyalty with America but with the Pope, that's also the reason why there are American flags inside Churches to show their loyalty to their adopted country. Interesting is that when these ethnic neighborhoods were broken up the communities would just resettle in another area, and they used blacks to break up these little communities by moving black families in, and these White ethnics are very racist, even to other white ethnics of different ethnicities, kind of like how asians hate other asians of a different ethnicity. Anyway they did it by blockbusting, usually quakers did the blocbusting, and after a while of doing so some moved to the suburbs where they got integrated to white society, another interesting note is that they didn't consider themselves as white, but rather as latvians, poles, or italians or such.

>>1831109
During the Colonial period, being born in the New World placed one at a lower social position than one born in the home country. Even if they were pure-blooded, creoles were below native Spaniards/Portuguese, and colonials were below native Britons.
So, since the very beginning.

>>1831109
This is pretty sad man.

>>1831109
>>1831293

yep, this thread is pathetic as fuck

>>1831109
I'm only upset when Americans talk about their ancestry as if it were their nationality, like if rather than calling themselves German-American or Italian-American or whatever, they just call themselves German or Italian.
Even though they weren't born in these countries, weren't raised there, have never been there, don't speak the language, etc.

That said I honestly don't remember the last time anyone did that. Anybody can learn about whatever culture they want but the way I see it, if you weren't raised in, say, Poland or wherever from a young age you'll never be Polish so don't try and act like you are.

>>1831109
Because you're a larper.

>first generation American son of Croat immigrants that came to the USA in the early 70s
>grew up eating Croatian food, speaking Croatian, listening to Croatian music
>totally out of touch with American pop culture, "real amerikans" don't really consider me American just another weird white guy with a Slavic last name
>visit Croatia and friends over there make fun of me for my English accented Croatian and say I will always be an amerifat
>caught in between two worlds neither of which will fully accept me
I know that feel OP.

>>1831109

>additionally, why do Europeans get mad when Americans talk of their ancestry?

My guess is it's a reaction to American political and cultural hegemony over Europe. Whatever their reason is, you need to stop listening to those people. No one can disconnect from your ancestors.

>>1831109

Because geography and culture. If you are not in Europe you're not European. Obviously. And then culture. There's an ever increasing cultural barrier between Europe and the USA in this case. First or second generation europeans in USA are basically european immigrants in Murica. They retain their way of looking at life and culture and behave like europeans, but after that they become americanised, start sharting in the mart, tipping in the cab, mobility scooter in the street, "liberals" and "football", prom balls and medicaid insurance jewery, and all those things europeans look at with disbelief and astonishment, and thus become 100% muricans going into the internet to talk about how they're are 'white' of 1/4 luxemburgish and 1/32 moldovan heritage. By that point, your transformation has been completed and you are now as european as a tibetan monk.

>>1831547
>t. american LARPer

>>1831109
>why do Europeans get mad when Americans talk of their ancestry?

Because you Americans are so obsessed with patriotism, that whenever you actually bother with your European ancestry, it's only done to glorify your own pathetic existence.

Whenever someone points out that it really doesn't fucking matter what your ancestry is, you start prattling about American exceptionalism again.

It's annoying, and you should stop.

>>1831109
americans are perfectly european. they're just the clueless sort of european that doesn't really know what the fuck it is.

it is a little embarrassing.

>>1831540
That's why america was a mistake. The whole new world was.

>>1831109
Because you have english as your mother tongue and you measure things using fucking body parts.

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google american people
pic related
why are you not european?
'cause you've become a mongrel nation

>>1831109
>Additionally, why do Europeans get mad when Americans talk of their ancestry?
More bemused than mad in most cases

>I like I understand that I am American NOT Polish. But I come from a line of Polish people that came to America.
That's cool. As long as you're aware of who you are, and who the Poles are, the fact that

>That being said, because America is devoid of culture not infested with capitalism or protestantism, I do seek some identification with Polish culture.
That's fine too. But bear in mind that Identity politics is absolute cancer and the fact that it is taking over America is extremely worrying.

>I try to learn as much as I can about your history and culture, why can't you let me own some of it by right of blood?
Nobody "owns" culture, we're not going to bitch about cultural appropriation or anything, you just have to be self-aware about it or you'll look like an idiot. Which is something many Americans can't seem to get right. Also "by right of blood" is bullshit. If your family history inspires you to learn and partake in Polish culture then great, but you don't have some Jewish birthright that gives you a free ticket to Polishness.

tl;dr if an American wants to learn European a language, music or otherwise wants to partake in European culture that's great. But your ancestry isn't something we're going to be impressed by or care about and it doesn't really give you a headstart over other Americans, unless you've got a particularly Polish/Swedish/whatever sounding name. Even then that doesn't matter.

The only issue is when yanks use European culture as a crutch for their shitty identity issues. Again, there's nothing really wrong with it you just look like a tool.

Disclaimer: I'm not Polish, I'm Irish. Poles might feel differently.

>>1831109
I think ethnicity is important in explaining and understanding personality traits. I went to a psychiatrist for a year for depression. After a year, she asked me my ethnjc background. I told her, and then she said, "well that explains your depression!" I think some personality traits are genetic do having a decent understanding of your cultural background can help you understand your personality.

>>1832184
Cruch for identity issues? What do you mean?

>>1832193
Take this thread for example
>>1830889
Do you see what we mean when we say it's embarrassing? This person is feeling this internal conflict that shouldn't even be there because, simply put, they're an american.

>>1831109
Go back to your shithole vodka drinking papist faggot

>>1831109
Let me give two examples. Many Slovenes moved to the USA during the 19th and 20th century, the centre of their settlement becoming Cleveland. Now, these American Slovenes (or Slovene-Americans, as you would call them over there) may retain their surnames (in some way - obviously, many are not written the same way anymore) and be part of their culture clubs but in the end, it's all just a very shallow attempt - something that many in these threads would call LARPing. They cannot speak Slovene, they cannot even pronounce their surnames correctly and their whole cultural experience is a mishmash of practices, cuisine and music; something like a stand at a tourist exhibition that shows different aspects but is quite shallow in general.
On the other hand, there are the Argentinian Slovenes. Most of them moved there in the 20th century and they have mostly retained the language (of course, they speak Spanish in public), they are very active in cultural organisations and they are still patriots for their original homeland. Many of them helped us achieve independence and some have moved back.

I hope this gives you some insight on the situation. When an immigrant or a descendent of immigrants hasn't been connected to the old country for a long time and the only actual thing that connects him is blood (in case of many Americans, a portion of the blood) you cannot say that that is a very strong link.

>>1832188

its not that simple

ethnicity is a factor, yes, but ethnicity isnt realy genetics

what youre talking about is mentality and culture and these inform both epigenetic development and psychological development as such

genetics themselves play a lesser role in it, since it gives varied and maleable results, far more important are things like how emotionaly healthy and functional the first 3/5 years of life are, how much stress and/or strain the mother was during pregnancy, which emotional patterns predominate in the family, thought patterns learned, habits, customs, food, work, all sorts of aspects of living conditions and exposure to things like technology or sexuality or socilising etc etc, all this then conditions things like hormones/neurotransmitters, neuroplastic development so on so on

you see this a lot in particularly explicit mentalities, how the same personality traits, same coping mechanisms, same emotional and general behavioral patterns, same mentality basicaly, get reproduced and recapitulated in a family line, mothers fucking up their kids basic emotional functions, fathers screwing up their kids characters, as if spirits of somesort get implanted into each new body over and over again

kind of like if a stork brought you a little robot baby and then you showe usbs with operating systems, programs and drivers into it

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>When did Europeans start considering Americans are non-European?
When this is considered white in the land of hamboigas.

>>1831540
Engleski naglasak zaista i zvuči glupo. Ako nisi čuo, zadnji premijer (Orešković) odrastao je u Kanadi i komično loše priča hrvatski. Nitko ga nije uzimao ozbiljno.
K vragu, valjda si mogao poboljšati svoj naglasak, kad već slušaš glazbu na hrvatskom i koristiš ga redovito.

>>1832282
K VRAGU ! UNISTIO SI MOJU SKRIVENU ZAMKU !

You fuckers declared independence, now go be independent somewhere else.

>>1831109
You weren't born in Poland
Most likely your parents were not born in Poland
You were not raised in the culture
You do not even currently live in the culture
You are not polish

At most you could call yourself "polish-american" but everyone outside the US knows that really just means "American"

>>1831109
>why do Europeans get mad when Americans talk of their ancestry?

Because Europeans don't have any authentic culture left, neither.
Europeans usually don't identify based on the things they are, they identify based on what they are not: Americans. Same with the EU. No one really knows what the EU is supposed to be but every third-class politican will tell you what the EU is NOT supposed to be: like the US.

Europeans are just as degenerate, godless, raceless, heimatlos etc. as Americans. And to forget about that fact, they hate on Americans.

>>1831547
It truly is pathetic how a bunch of people far removed from culture cling to what little bits of the Old world culture they still remember, even though the result is a butchered, plastic, dead product that does not have much to do with actual culture; the American has managed to take a living thing that is culture and turned it into a cold, dead commodity to flaunt around as if it bore any importance at hand. As the white American (this is yet another meme, for only an American would care about race as there is no way for him to even start talking about ethnicity; a non-existant fact in the USA) puts this abomination on a golden throne to showcase as a form of quasi-identity, he notices not how he is just as pathetic in this regard to the negro whose past is unknown and has therefore created his own myths.

All in all, the American complex is a sad twist of claiming superiority and yet clinging to the little bits of culture that had been twisted into something alien to the European observer. A country of no nation, no ethnicity, no culture, no history and no language, the United States of America are the prime example of the decay of the West; a truly gruesome picture that should alert any and all on-lookers.

I wonder if Asians have the same sort of opinions about Singaporeans?

>>1831109
>America is devoid of culture not infested with capitalism or protestantism
Well tough shit, as an American, that's the culture you get. You may not like your own culture, but don't be surprised when people look on you as faggot when you try to LARP as someone else's based on some meaningless spurious connection

>>1831109

If you don't live in Europe you can't be a European. We have never considered colonial populations to be European except in culture, when the usual term is "Western Civilisation" rather than "European".

Have you tried not being a pagan and converting to Protestantism

>Be Pennsylvania Dutch
>Speak ok standard German
>Work at a company that does a lot of foreign business deals and regularly is short on translators
>Germans always send email in German, and then greatly overestimate their English skills on conference calls
>Get called into translate and speak with them because they can't make out basic sentences and don't seem to realize it

Germans get irrationally upset when I speak German with them, I have no discernible American accent while doing so; they're simply upset a American knows German and they can't figure out why. They straight out ask me why I speak German. I really don't know what's wrong with most Germans, it is my language as much as theirs; though it's admittedly not my dialect

>>1832184
>Identity politics is absolute cancer and the fact that it is taking over America is extremely worrying.
THIS

>>1833306
They think they are smarter than what they really are. Even though most foreigners can only repeat catch phrases from movies and t.v.

>>1833176
>Europeans usually don't identify based on the things they are,
I don't see how you could possibly seriously believe this. When a German has constitutional patriotism or a Frenchman French culture as his core value, he identifies based on what he is and doesn't give a fuck about what happens across the pond.

>they identify based on what they are not: Americans.
If Europeans identified based on what they're not, they could just as well identify themselves as Non-Chinese, or Non-Russian. Furthermore, the refusal of something is also always simultaneously an approval of something, just like a right of someone is always an deprivation of rights from someone else. If I identify myself as refusing violence, then I am also approving of non-violence. If I have a right to property, then you are deprived of your right from taking my property.

>Same with the EU. No one really knows what the EU is supposed to be
There are a lot of people that have an idea of what they want the EU to be. Of course, they disagree with each other, just like in any other big political issue, like the degree to which the USA should be federalized, but just because there is disagreement, doesn't mean that there's also widespread agreement on issues.

>every third-class politican will tell you what the EU is NOT supposed to be: like the US.
Contrary to what you said, some demand even something like the "United States of Europe", and contrary to what you said, political scientists call the EU a being sui generis (i.e., enough fucks are given about it as a category not to simply sort it into whether it is or is not akin to a federation like the US).

>>1833354
>that there's also widespread
that there isn't also widespread*

>>1833321
I suspect it vaguely has to do with Germans feeling superior to Americans morally and intellectually but at the same time hating their culture, language and society and wishing they spoke Italian or Arabic; they could not fathom learning German or speaking German as a non German. Also their modern conception of ethnicity is strictly dependant upon the state and having grown up with it telling you what to do

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>>1833362
Just laugh at them because if you white and American. You are statistically smarter than any European.

>>1833389
>Just laugh at them because if you white and American. You are statistically smarter than any European.
I highly doubt that's true in your case.

>>1831109
Europeans are butthurt because they lost their empires and all they have left is culture or the delusional belief those empire will be regained.

>>1832156
The new world was doing ok till whitey fucked it all up.

>>1833389
>IQ = intelligence

>>1833389
Eternal anglo confirmed to be smater than eternal jew.

>>1832247
>tfw live in Cleveland
>tfw lots of slavs and slavic food
>tfw german-American and family came to america in 1740s so no cultural connection
>tfw I can never really relate with the slavic culture and all of their good food
Frank Sterle's slovenian country house in Cleveland is pretty good desu

>>1833597
>from google: Dirndled staff serves schnitzel & pierogi at this old-time spot with a beer garden & polka music.
To be honest, this is what I was talking about with the "mishmash of practices, cuisine and music" and it's a bit surprising considering the founder seems to have moved to the States pretty late. I suppose that's to grab a wider "audience".

>>1833306
>Pennsylvania Dutch
>speaking German
???

Americans are the ultimate kick in the balls to Europe. They're loud, speak freely, usually very friendly to other people and exhibit an individualistic spirit seldom found in Europe.

The prim and proper customs of the Europeans which were meant to serve them well as "masters" of the world was completely thrown out the window when the Americans turned up as the foremost power on Earth wearing nothing but a wife beater and a trucker cap.

Europeans can't stand this and will go to great lengths to pretend they're better than Americans despite pretty much living in client states of the American Empire.

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>>1833734
>it's an american thinks he's any different than a standard anglo episode
we'e been acquainted with bongistan for centuries, you're nothing new

>but we're loud
Latins are louder

>but muh individualism
that's a british thing

>>1833792

>Another European attempt to downplay America yet again

dohohohoho

Also, British people are some of the most conforming people on the planet.

>quiet and reserved
>don't like to rock the boat
>accept a class hierarchy

>>1833702
I was sort of groomed to be a minister from a young age by various old distant relatives so I read Luther's Bible and things like that, plus growing up with Mennonites and gay Dutch Reformed in Lehigh; who have a much more conservative dialect. Then I had a semester and summer abroad in Germany during college.

If you're referring to the Dutch/German thing, I've probably explained this to several hundred people already. "Dutch" is a middle English term for continental West Germanic peoples in the early colonial era it would refer to Dutch, Flemish, Low Germans, and High German speakers. Pennsylvania Dutch were mostly Rhinelanders, Swiss, Hessians and Swabians, with some Netherlanders and French Huguenots. Some people say Pennsylvania German, but I don't like the term at all

>>1833807
>America thinks individualism=be as obnoxious as possible
explains a lot. Still, it's sad to see European thought so degenerated

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ITT: a bunch of yuropoors pretending that america somehow doesn't have culture even though that's literally impossible for a human society, and that their stagnant, homogenized mess is something superior that people strive to be in american society.

people aren't wishing they are european when they refer to themselves as "german" or "italian". they're just talking about their genetics. you don't understand that people don't care about "nationality" here, because we aren't surrounded by borders. grow up and quit playing make-believe that europe isn't a declining shithole.

>Makes a thread to discuss something I was genuinely curious about.
>"Because Americans all act this hypocritical way, and you're all human trash, and blah blah blah"
You guys just can't let someone call themselves something that is yours huh? You think you would be somewhat flattered that people who left your country for greener pastures would carry the identify, or at least the pride of their mother/fatherland with them.

>>1831109
>Additionally, why do Europeans get mad when Americans talk of their ancestry?
Because they don't understand anything about the culture they are claiming to belong to and latch on to whatever's popular.

>1/64th Irish genes
>63/64th German genes
>"I'm Irish!!!"

>>1833306
>Dutch
>The same as german
Fucking americans

>>1833958
>2020
and India will be superpower then.

>>1833993

The only people who care about their "fatherlands" are diaspora really. It's just embarrassing seeing it.

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>immigrated after 1800
>american

pick one

>>1831540
>tfw half mixtec half german
>tfw too mexican for white kids and too white for mexican kids

>>1831540
>>1835704

I feel u guys no homo

>>1835625
>Be euro
>Don't know what Pennsylvania Dutch means

lmaoing at your life

>>1835667
>immigrated after 1492
>american
pick one

>>1835710
Anyone who immigrated after the Bering landbridge disappeared is not an American desu

>>1831109
These people are just ultra-autistic when it comes to semantics. If, for example, someone posted on /his/ saying they were "German-American" and that they wanted to learn more about German history, nobody would really mind. However, if you drop the "-American" part, they will fucking metamorphise into raging fucking aspies because you're "trying to steal muh kultur". At that point, the only way to shut them down is to begin insulting them in your ancestral language (if you know it).

>>1835730
>your ancestral language (if you know it)
That's where the vast majority of heritage-Americans fail, though.

>>1833958
This is the truest post on this board.

>>1833958
American 'culture' is homogenous, a mongrel culture fitting for a mongrel people. Oh, you have a little italy and chinatown in your city? They're disneyland versions of italian/chinese culture.

>>1835625
It's an anglicization of Deutsch.

>>1835736
Protip: when Americans say they're "German" or whatever, it's because they don't wanna have to type "I am primarily of German descent, although my ancestors immigrated to America decades ago." See, you'd think that this kind of thing would go without saying, but apparently Europeans are too autistic for that.

When I say that the only way to shut them down is to insult them in your ancestral tongue, I meant that they usually end up shitting up the entire fucking thread and the only method that can salvage it is to demonstrate knowledge of the language. Otherwise, you might as well close the tab and try again later.

>>1835743
Try going to a real Chinatown and saying that to the grandma that can only speak Mandarin.

>>1835743

This is such an embarrassing post and I'm not even American.

>>1835743
>Japanese 'culture' is homogenous, a stagnant culture fitting for a stagnant people.

The way I see it:
>Polish
Person born and raised in Poland, knowing Polish language, history, and customs
>Polish-American
2nd+ generation of Polish people living in America, still raised in Polish culture, knowing Polish language, customs, and history, though with some taint of accent and customs of America
>American with Polish ancestry
Lacking in knowledge of Polish history, unable to speak Polish language even with a strong accent (forget about written version, that's something that would likely start being a problem at Polish-Americans level), risen mostly in American customs. Learns something about his/hers ancestry and visits 4chan to talk about how "they found out they are [insert proportions here] Polish, tell me about my homeland", even if their only true homeland is America.

Diaspora level lies probably somewhere between Polish-American and American with Polish ancestry.

>Disclaimer: Polish was used as example nation, mostly because OP have such ancestry, and because I myself am actual Polish.

>>1835743
>He thinks Chinatowns in major cities are "disneyland" versions of Chinese culture

lmao oh boy you are in for a surprise if you visit the west coast

>>1835760
Nobody wants to type this bullshit out. This is the fundamental issue. Europeans are all autistic about semantics and want Americans to describe themselves in very specific ways, perhaps because they're mostly second-language speakers and can't grasp subtle non-literal meanings.

>>1835752
And when we're on boards where flags aren't evident and you discover the guy who called Polish is only doing so because his grandmommy got fucked by a Pole that one time, you begin to question the intelligence of the person posting such tripe in the first place.

>>1835764
Genetics is not what makes someone belong to a culture though.

>>1835763
Seriously, they might actually be more Chinese than China itself at this point.
FOR AUTISTS: The PRC actively tried to destroy Chinese culture. Taiwan, a Dutch/Japanese island, is undoubtedly more "Chinese" than the PRC at this point.

t. AMERICAN WITH A CHINESE MOTHER WHO DELIBERATELY WASN'T TAUGHT MANDARIN IN ORDER TO EASE THE ASSIMILATION PROCESS

>>1835770
When Americans describe themselves as "Polish" or "German", they're talking about genetics, not culture. This is the subtle, non-literal meaning I was talking about.

>>1835780
So, they could write that they have such ancestry and would like to learn more about their history, simple.

>>1835808
Europeans could stop having autistic rage fits and destroying threads for no reason, simple.

you are either american (implying theres more to it than citizenship) or european

>>1835808

but its not their history

>>1831109
>When did Europeans start considering Americans are non-European?
When americans repeated it for a full fucking generation.

>Additionally, why do Europeans get mad when Americans talk of their ancestry?
Because you are european when it suits you and non european when it doesn't.

tl;dr you are asking the wrong tribe.

What is the point of ever bringing up genetic ancestry?

I'm Australian and I have never once brought up the fact that my ancestors were British and Irish and I would never even dream of calling myself Irish-Australian

>>1832188
Pretty sure that depression story is told about Nordics in America.

>>1835780
Really? It's the opposite if you go north.

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>>1831109
At least by the 19th century

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>Are you a pure Pole?
>Can you even locate Poland on a map?
>Did you grow up eating Polish food?
>Did you grow up in Polish culture, at least at home?
>Do you speak Polish?
>Do you know anything about Poland?

If you answered yes to all questions, then you're just a Pole born outside of the motherland.

A people/identity stretches further than nationality. Blood, culture and language.

Or at least this is my opinion.

>>1836328
i think most people here that answer yes to the first question can answer yes to all of them

>>1836339
I agree, but there are some extremely ignorant people out there who never take interest in their ancestry/culture.

>>1836328
first one should be:
>do you identify as Pole?

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>>1831116
>Wanda
You're a Pole.

After we started to in the 1880s

>>1833306
Maybe they are mad because you think the Netherlands is german, and call yourself "a american".

>>1831722
>"Liberals"
Europe is the hell-hole controlled by then.

>>1836328
Local club has a black dude that dances traditional polish dances.
I don't go there, but I'll bet that nigga also knows a lot about polish culture and sheit.

We wuz kurwa

>>1836624
You can't truly identify if you don't have Polish blood. It's just not logical.

>>1836821
That's okay, but we're talking in the context of being bound to a motherland through blood, language, and culture.

>>1836927
>You can't truly identify if you don't have Polish blood. It's just not logical.
Nietzsche did it.

>>1835667
>>1835710
>emigrated to America
>American
pick one

>>1833690
My family used to go to Sterle's for big events (graduation, post-funeral dinners, etc.)

I think there's some angst among Americans of European decent. Many immigrsnt groups are now being encouraged (or at least not discouraged) to maintain a parallel cultural identity. When my ancestors came over on the boat in 1923, they were encouraged to become American... period. Not to get too /pol/, but generic American whiteness is almost a pejorative now so people seek to hypenate even if it's somewhat caricatured.

>>1836927
>You can't truly identify if you don't have Polish blood
So if don't have Polish "blood", but you live in Poland your entire life, speak Polish on par with average native, know culture and history you still can't identify as Pole?

>>1831109
>why do Europeans get mad when Americans talk of their ancestry?
Imagine being italian, and listening to an american lecture you about being italian, yet talking of all kind of shit that had nothing to do with Italy whasoever. What should italians feel?

>>1837029
You can.

Many Germans, Swedes and Eastern Slavs became Poles because they assimilated.

>>1831109
>I try to learn as much as I can about your history and culture, why can't you let me own some of it by right of blood?
Because culture is not something bound by blood, americans heritagefagging is equivalent to frenchmen spiking their hair with lime and italians dressing in togas.

>>1837042
If you are him, you are contradicting yourself.
If you are not, you missed my point.

>>1837053
>italians dressing in togas.
Americans do that as well desu